Forum: Ballet / Pas De Deux

What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By Petit
On Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:47 AM

www.youtube.com . . .

I need to know what is the name of this music or where I can find it. I know that it is by Adolphe Adam, but I don't know what ballet it is from. Especially I need this part from female variation.
I would be grateful if you can help me:)

20 Replies to What is the name of this music/pas de deux?

re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By Chaconnemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Mar 26, 2012 09:19 AM
I don't know the work intimately but as far as I can tell from an on-line search, Alphonse Adam, who was a prolific composer of now-long-forgotten operas and other entertainments (he wrote dozens of "vaudeville's", only wrote one ballet and that is "Giselle." So I would explore other You Tubes for the specific episodes.

I can recall hearing some of this music before and the only things I remember knowingly hearing myself by him are a few thing in Giselle and the very famous "Cantique de Noel" better known in English as "O Holy Night." The other thing that would lead me to "Giselle" is that very little of his music is recorded or could be obtained in orchestral scores other than Giselle.

Jon
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By NDow
On Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:39 AM
^Jon, anything is possible, but I've never heard any of this music in Giselle, and I've seen a lot of performances of this ballet... Are there two Adams -- Alphonse and Adolphe? Adolphe is the composer of Giselle...

Are we sure, in fact, that this music in question was composed by Adam? I did not have time to investigate much, but here is a link to our good (albeit not always accurate) friend Wikipedia, that lists all of Adam's ballets. Surprisingly there are a LOT of them:

en.wikipedia.org . . .

Perhaps, Petit, you'll be able to find your answer there. The only other suggestion I have is to find someone who speaks and reads Russian, to see if the answer lies in the description that goes along with that youtube clip, or in the Russian announcement made before the dancers start that pas de deux.

HELLO, DDNers, ARE THERE ANY MEMBERS OUT THERE WHO SPEAK RUSSIAN? THANKS!
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux? (karma: 1)
By noachkamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:41 PM
Edited by noachka (133888) on 2012-03-26 12:43:35
The description makes no mention of which ballet this is from. The announcer at the beginning only says, "Adam, Pas de Deux. Choreography by Vasily Medvedev." and then goes on to say the names of the dancers.

Adam wrote the score to Le Corsaire; I believe this may be a version of the Pas d'Esclave from Le Corsaire. The reason I say so is because of the tags under the video - "па-де-скляв, корсар,
вариация гульнара, Медведев..." - which translates to, "pas de esclave, Le Corsaire, Gulnare Variation, Medvedev."

The version of the Pas de Esclave that I am familiar with myself is this: www.youtube.com . . .

(Coincidentally - or not? - danced by the same dancer, Zhiganshina; also uploaded by the same user on the same date.)

Perhaps you will want to ask the user who uploaded it for clarification. She apparently tagged it as Corsaire, so I assume she did it knowing it is from Corsaire...you could ask her.

Further research upon checking to see what google would turn up if I searched for "Vasily Medvedev Corsaire" has pointed me to this: balletmedvedev.homestead.com . . .

So, as best as I can tell, this is a version of the Pas de Esclave from Medvedev's Corsaire.
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By noachkamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:52 PM
More evidence to support my theory: it seems that there is, after all, a version of Le Corsaire choreographed by "Vasily Medvedev after Marius Petipa", shown here as performed by the Perm Ballet: www.youtube.com . . .

Perhaps you could find a full version of that production and figure out if it is indeed a version of Pas de Esclave (Pas de Esclave is near the beginning of Corsaire).
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By Chaconnemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Mar 26, 2012 01:13 PM
Now this is interesting. The ballet composer of both Giselle and Le Corsaire and also the "Cantique de Noel" seems to be truly Adolphe Adam (1803-1856). Curiously I found several on-line references to the composer of "Cantique de Noel" to be Alphonse Adam (including my own sheet music for a violin/piano arrangement I often play at Christmas.) So apparently this is a long standing error perpetuated for over a hundred years (copyright on my music is early 1900's, I've had my copy since the second year I played violin.) An on-line posting by the well-known chamber music group who also does crossover stuff, Quartetto Gelato, makes the same error (maybe they used the same music I have, LOL.) Thanks to Noachka whose Russian knowledge saved the day.

Jon
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By Petit
On Mon Mar 26, 2012 09:53 PM
Thank you for replies! It is very helpful:-)
It seems that it can be Pas d'esclave from Le Corsaire in Medvedev choreography, but still I am not sure.
The fact is that it doesn't matter for me what balle is this music from, but I need good version of this music, becouse I am doing this variation and my music is in very bad quality:-(
So knowledge what ballet is this music from can help me to find it in good quality:)
I tried to find it in Google, websites with music etc. but I didn't find yet:-(
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By NDow
On Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:45 PM
Petit, I am not the world's greatest researcher (not by far). But I've been on youtube and other sources tonight, and I can not find anything from Corsaire with that music.

Further I am confused, because that Pas d'esclave variation for Gulnare, from early in the ballet, would not have her in the costume shown in the youtube clip. Additional confusion came when I searched for Medvedev's production clips, and some of those, even labeled as having music by Adam, had the "standard music" for the production. (I think I'm telling this accurately. I viewed so many that I may not be remembering clearly.)

I checked itunes and amazon, which have a version of Le Corsaire which is supposed to be completely the music of Adolphe Adam, but from the samples I was able to hear, there was nothing like the music you are trying to find. Here is the link to amazon, in case you have not seen this recording:

www.amazon.com . . .

You say you have the music. How did you acquire the version you have? Did it come from a teacher? I'm just wondering if someone on your end would be able to identify it, or know where to get a better copy of it.

Jon, I know the name thing with Adolphe is very confusing. I, too, came upon some of the sources you mentioned, with Alphonse...

Noachka, "spasibo" to you for all your input!
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By Petit
On Tue Mar 27, 2012 03:13 AM
NDow, I got this music from my teacher, I think it was taken from a video clip from performance/rehearsal, becouse quality is very bad. Unfortunately my teacher don't know what is name of this music also, only that the composer was Adolphe Adam. I am dancing this variation with the similar choreography as in YT clip with Ksenia Zhiganshina (there are few little differences with hands etc., and at the end I have italian fouette and then pirouettes), but I am dancing it only for myself and maybe school performance:-)
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux? (karma: 1)
By noachkamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Mar 27, 2012 08:29 AM
NDow wrote:

Further I am confused, because that Pas d'esclave variation for Gulnare, from early in the ballet, would not have her in the costume shown in the youtube clip. Additional confusion came when I searched for Medvedev's production clips, and some of those, even labeled as having music by Adam, had the "standard music" for the production. (I think I'm telling this accurately. I viewed so many that I may not be remembering clearly.)



Because the YouTube clip was filmed from a competition, the costumes are not necessarily a good indicator of what scene/ballet this is from. Often times in competition or concert settings, the costume style is not as 'set in stone' as it would be if an entire ballet were to be performed; this is especially true when performing a PDD as an excerpt on its own.

That said, I do agree it is not a fitting costume for Pas d'Esclave - moreover, the choreography itself seems to bear more of a resemblance with the style of Satanella or even Grand Pas Classique than anything in Corsaire, let alone the Pas d'Esclave.

To clear up the confusion about Adam's music - the 'standard music' IS Adam's music. If what I said implied otherwise, I apologize for the confusion; Adam's score is the original for Corsaire.

All of this taken into consideration makes me think of another - perhaps more fitting - option for how this all plays out. It could be that Adam's original score included compositions that, nowadays, are not included and were omitted or replaced with different music some time ago. This would not surprise me, as it is very often done (the music for many ballets we know now is actually often times a mish-mash of different scores from what were originally totally separate ballets, even though we might still give credit to one composer). Maybe this PDD was originally a part of Adam's Corsaire score, and it was taken out once upon a time, and is now performed only rarely as a PDD in itself.

I'm not sure if I'm explaining it correctly, I'm finding it difficult to put into words what I'm trying to say! Haha. But I will give an easy example: consider Diana and Acteon PDD - this is actually a fragment of the full Esmeralda ballet.

Or an even better example - The Talisman PDD.

One more example of how different music is compiled, and i will use Corsaire since we're already taking about it. We are all familiar with the Le Jardin Anime scene, and its music, from Le Corsaire, yes? The very Le Corsaire which we know Adam composed. Well, here is a breakdown of the music used in this scene, the 'standard' music we are familiar with:

"6. "Le Corsaire" Pas de deux (created by Samuil Andrianov, 1915) --
--a. Orchestrated nocturne, originally for piano "Rêve du printemps" (Drigo, ca. 1900)
--b. Variation I (Drigo; from a revival of Petipa's "Trilby" , ca. 1880)
--c. Variation II (Baron Boris Vietinghoff-Scheel; from the Petipa/Ivanov/Cecchetti ballet "Cinderella", 1893)
--d. Coda (Drigo; year & source unknown)
7. Coda générale (Léo Delibes, 1867)"

The historical notes/breakdown of the music is thanks to a YouTube user mrlopez2681, who always provides detailed notes on the history of ballets and their music. You can see the video here: www.youtube.com . . .

And just look at the description.

I am sending mrlopez an message right now with a link to this thread, to see if he might be able to give us some insight.

I tried consulting my book, "101 Storied of the Great Ballets" to see if I might find some useful historical information on Le Corsaire, but was very surprised to find that, out of all 101 ballets covered in this book, there is not one mention of Corsaire!


NDow wrote:

Noachka, "spasibo" to you for all your input!


Ne za chto! :)
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By NDow
On Tue Mar 27, 2012 09:02 AM
Noachka, you are amazing! I was just coming back here to say I have to officially sign off on this project until Wednesday, since I have a busy teaching day and a lot of choreography to accomplish... Also to say that I viewed ABT's DVD of this Pas d'Esclave, and Gulnare is the only one in a royal, rather than slave/harem style tutu!

You are absolutely right about costuming for competitions, etc. They are not necessarily the same as the costumes in a full length version...

My brain and my ears are so befuddled at this point! I sent a message to the person who submitted the youtube that Petit is asking about. Mrgeorge writes wonderfully detailed histories. So perhaps between the two, we'll come up with some clues, at least!

As for musical confusion, when listening to something last night that was supposed to be Adam's music, I heard a track that was clearly recognizable as part of Don Quixote, the Minkus version!...

ABT's Corsaire has music from five composers: Adam, Cesare Pugni, Leo Delibes (who apparently was a student of Adam's, and to whom Adam entrusted certain compositional projects!...), Riccardo Drigo (I was listening to his music a lot last night, too, just in case there was a misidentification of Petit's version...although I strongly doubt that the Vaganova school would make an error in reporting the composer....), and Prince Oldenbourg.

On the chance that Adam borrowed from himself for this music, or borrowed this music to insert elsewhere, I came upon an opera he wrote called "Si J'etais roi" (If I Were King). The few excerpts I could find online sounded similar in feel to Petit's version. HI, JON! Do you know anything about this score?

OK, guys, now I have to say good-bye for a while. I hope someone will find some answers!
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By Chaconnemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:29 AM
Re: "Si J'etais roi." Aside from knowing that such a piece exists, I don't know the music at all. I actually may remember it more from the original poem by Victor Hugo (I was a French major in college...never used it, but it did get me hired - based upon language aptitude.) I just looked up the poem (it's short) and don't remember a bit of it. Franz Liszt also apparently wrote a piece on this theme, but I'm not a very big fan of Liszt. (Long story.)

I don't knowingly know anything from "Le Corsaire" either. Unless the music is Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky, Prokofiev or Copland, regular symphony orchestras, such as the ones I play in don't do ballet music very much. The ballet pit band I play in does the "Nutcracker" annually, but the annual spring program is usually a pastiche based on a number of composer's music, most of it not expressly written for the ballet. I seldom play in that one because their dates habitually conflict with my regular orchestra performances. Sometimes local radio stations may play overtures from ballets or even short orchestral suites but that is about the extent of it.

Riccardo Drigo...now there is an obscure corner of music. I don't know anything by him except for a short work called Serenade from the ballet "Les Millions dÂ’Arlequin." It has been transcribed every way possible and I have played the violin transcription many times. Prompted by the NDow's mention of him and my own peripheral connection, I read the Wiki which is most interesting. While Italian, he mostly worked in St. Petersburg, and totally unknown to me, did the final revisions to the "Swan Lake" score at the invitation of Tchaikovsky's brother, Modest, following the composer's death. [I assume this involved some tweaking for practical staging considerations and scoring the work so all the players could fit into the orchestra pit.] It is Drigo's version which is used to this day though he is seldom credited. I wonder if he did the same to "Nutcracker", a very late work which also has several versions depending on the size of the orchestra pit.

It is interesting to note that the worlds of ballet music and purely orchestra concert hall music seldom meet. Conductors of one are often clueless with the other. You seldom today see a big name conductor conduct an actual ballet performance (as opposed to occasional concert performances of ballet scores or suites) and few noted ballet conductors are heard on the concert stage. My "Nutcracker" conductor, who is also my best friend, has told me that he would conduct the score quite differently if he didn't have to mold the music to dancers' wishes, and abilities. Dancers love working with him because he is so flexible. [He is a volunteer conductor, a fine violist, but by profession is a Ph.D researcher at a major university in computational linguistics. We musicians are a versatile lot!] I don't ever expect that I would play, for example, the complete score of "Giselle" or anything by Minkus Don Quixote) or Lovenkjold (La Sylphide) in an orchestral concert. I have done suites from Coppelia and Sylvia by Leo Delibes, but that is a rare exception.
I knew that Les Sylphides was a reworking of Chopin's music, but through this discussion, I found out that the orchestrator was Alexander Glauzanov. I didn't know that!

Jon
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux? (karma: 1)
By noachkamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Mar 28, 2012 09:46 AM
I have not had a chance to read the recent posts on this thread, so I apologize in advance.

I'm just posting to share with you all the response I received from the YouTube use mrlopez!


This is what I sent him:

Hello! I know you are very well-versed in history of ballet and its music, and I was hoping you might be able to help me figure something out.

There is a discussion over at Dance.net in which a dancer was inquiring about the music from a video of a PDD filmed at a competition. They wanted to know which ballet the music was from. Here is the discussion: www.dance.net . . .

And here is the video in question: www.youtube.com . . .

The tags at the bottom of the video indicate that the composer is Adam, and that the music is from Le Corsaire, possibly from the Pas d'Esclave. It is definitely not the music we are all used to hearing for Pas d'Esclave or any of Corsaire, for that matter.

Further research indicated that the dancers may have been dancing a version of Corsaire by Vasily Medvedev, but I have no been able to confirm this for sure.

I am now speculating that what is going on here is that some of Adam's original score for Corsaire was omitted and is now only performed (rarely?) as a PDD in itself for concerts or competitions, etc. As in, the "Adam Pas de Deux" (not that I have ever heard of such a piece). But that is only a guess, at best.

I figured you were the person to contact and that you might be able to provide us with further insight into this curious PDD and its music, and the history behind it!


And this is his reply:

Hello -

Your instincts do you credit - the music is indeed from Adam's original score for "Le Corsaire". The music as it is performed in this clip is edited & re-ordered. They are using Richard Bonynge's recording of Adam's original score.

Specifically, it is Adolphe Adam's original music for the Grand Pas des éventails that originally occurred in Act I/scene 2. In the original staging of "Le Corsaire", the Grand Pas des éventails featured Medora & 16 coryphées creating a "kaleidoscope" effect with giant fans. Petipa retained the original Grand Pas des éventails all through his career, right up through to his final revival of the ballet in 1899 (according to the theatre program).

In 1915, the Grand Pas des éventails was replaced by what we now call "Le Corsaire Pas de deux". Contrary to popular belief, the "Corsaire Pas de deux" was NOT created for Pierina Legnani in 1899, but rather for Tamara Karsavina in 1915. Legnani danced the original Grand Pas des éventails in 1899.

The Bolshoi ballet's recent revival/reconstruction of "Le Corsaire" does not use Adam's original music for the Grand Pas des éventails. Instead, they use music extracted from Drigo's score for the Ivanov/Petipa "La Forêt Enchantée" and the have moved the pas to the final act.

You have my permission to quote me in you Dance.net post!


--Adam :)




So - there we are :)
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By Chaconnemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:23 AM
No wonder we are confused, but thanks for pursuing the expert Mr. Lopez and sending that info to us. Richard Bonynge is, in fact, one of the few conductors who has recorded major label ballet recordings of comparatively obscure or forgotten composers. (He was also the husband of the late soprano, Dame Joan Sutherland, and he revived many forgotten Bel Canto opera by composers such as Bellini or Donizetti specifically for her use. These were composers who were very prolific and well-known in their day, but today are only known for two or three operas, if at all.

Bravo to you and Mr. Lopez.

Jon
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By NDow
On Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:41 PM
BINGO! Well done, noachka! And thanks to Adam for his help, too! I learned a lot from his response.

Petit, the amazon link I provided above is the recording of which Adam spoke. The Pas des evantails is indeed there Act I, the 12th track... So you should be all set now -- enjoy!
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By Petit
On Wed Mar 28, 2012 03:05 PM
Wow you are amazing! Thank you so much:-)))
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By Petit
On Thu Mar 29, 2012 03:05 PM
I have music for PDD and female variation now, but I can't find coda and male variation music.
I have Le corsaire (Adam and Bonynge) CD, but there is only Pas de eventails with PDD, female variation and coda, which is other than in the YT link.
Maybe somebody know what name is for coda and male variation in this video clip?
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By NDow
On Thu Mar 29, 2012 08:13 PM
Petit, do you need the entire Grand Pas? I thought you just needed Gulnare's variation?...
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By Petit
On Thu Mar 29, 2012 09:56 PM
Especially I needed female variation, which I am working now, but my teacher is thinking about doing entire PDD and I love the music so I decided to look for it also:-)
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By NDow
On Fri Mar 30, 2012 06:24 AM
Noachka, do you think it would be advisable for Petit to follow your lead, and write to mrlopez herself, to thank him for his help, and then explain the situation? He seems to be a wonderful resource, and might be able to head her in the right direction, yes?
re: What is the name of this music/pas de deux?
By noachkamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:43 PM
NDow, I think that would be the advisable "next step" in Petit's scavenger hunt!

I meant to write back to mrlopez, thanking him for his help, and never got a chance. I do intend to write to him tonight.

Even so, I think that you should contact him yourself, Petit, to see if he might be able to point you in the direction of where you can find the music.

If I get a chance, I will see if I might be able to find the music (when I was looking for my Talisman music, I ended up only finding a decent version through a Russian website...I am still looking for a good version of the entire PDD, though!)

But definitely contact him yourself, Petit. And don't be afraid to contact other users on youtube or other websites as well!

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