Forum: Ballet / Ballet - General

Cambré en rond / tire bouchon
By jetrouve
On Thu Feb 07, 2013 02:51 PM

One of my teachers (whom I hold very high, by the way :) ) uses a term I hadn't heard before for the movement that I would call cambré en rond:
Tire bouchon.

Are those two terms interchangeable, or is there maybe a slight difference (like for example, one is quick, or one goes all the way down and the other doesn't)?

I'm curious!

15 Replies to Cambré en rond / tire bouchon

re: Cambré en rond / tire bouchon
By jetrouve
On Tue Feb 12, 2013 06:03 PM
Still hoping someone will have an idea :)...
re: Cambré en rond / tire bouchon
By majeremember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Feb 12, 2013 06:25 PM
I've heard and used the term tire bouchon but not cambre en rond.

My ballet dictionary (Technical Manual and Dictionary of Classical Ballet by Gail Grant)says:

Cambre- arched. The body is bent from the waist backward or sideways, the head following the movement of the body.
Rond- Round or circular.

(There wasn't an entry for Cambre en Rond)

Tire-bouchon- Like a corkscrew. a term of the Russian school. This is a position in which the leg is raised so that the thigh is in the second position and the tip of the pointed toe touches the knee of the supporting leg. a pirouette in this position, when done with a renverse movement, gives the impression of a corkscrew.

----

Now, what I call a tire-bouchon is you have your leg in retire (like above) and you turn the leg in and then out and kick your leg in second.
re: Cambré en rond / tire bouchon
By Sumayah
On Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:44 AM
Edited by Sumayah (204191) on 2013-02-12 11:45:18
I learned tire-bouchon as described in Gail Grant's dictionary. The turn in, turn out was always nicknamed a figure 8. I also have not heard of cambré en rond. That doesn't mean anything though, because as I like to tell my students, ballet is based on French, but isn't proper French. So since ballet terminology is based on verbs and adjectives with little context, the description one person uses may very well be valid even if it's not the "popular" term for the step. So what they describe might in fact be arguably a round, arched movement that also could be argued as a corkscrew. They're just using their modifiers in a different way than you're used to.
re: Cambré en rond / tire bouchon
By RosePremium member
On Tue Feb 12, 2013 09:00 PM
'Cambré en rond' is called 'Fifth Port de Bras' in Vaganova.
I used to have a teacher who called this 'Tire Bouchon' too. Later I learned this is not the right term, but as your teacher uses it too, it must have slipped in the dance world some how. Maybe your teacher and mine studied with the same teacher in the past? ;)
re: Cambré en rond / tire bouchon
By majeremember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Feb 12, 2013 09:06 PM
Rose wrote:

'Cambré en rond' is called 'Fifth Port de Bras' in Vaganova.
I used to have a teacher who called this 'Tire Bouchon' too. Later I learned this is not the right term, but as your teacher uses it too, it must have slipped in the dance world some how. Maybe your teacher and mine studied with the same teacher in the past? ;)


Do you mean a port de bra like this? www.youtube.com . . . I can see how that could be described as a corkscrew.

This is an interesting discussion.
re: Cambré en rond / tire bouchon
By jetrouve
On Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:18 PM
@majere and Sumaya Thank you for looking it all up :).
When I searched DDN for tire bouchon I indeed found all kinds of discussion regarding the 'figure 8 movement', but none regarding the movement I was talking about.
I wonder, as you didn't know the term cambré en rond, how would you call it?
To be clear, we usually do it standing at the barre in fifth, arm in second:
You start doing a little cambre outwards/ diagonally sideways, deepening it whilst going to cambre devant ('touch knees with your nose') arm comes in fifth, going up sideways to cambre on the other side, going further around to cambre backwards, and finishing the circle with a cambre sideways to the first side, coming up arm second.
Main difference with what I saw in the video you posted of the fifth port de bras is that the girl comes up after the cambre to the front, and then starts the round around the back.

Hmm, I just read in one of my books that a cambre to the front should be called rammaser, never knew that :).

@Rose or maybe it is typically dutch :)?
re: Cambré en rond / tire bouchon
By RosePremium member
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:00 AM
jetrouve wrote:

@Rose or maybe it is typically dutch :)?

No.
re: Cambré en rond / tire bouchon
By balletboyrhysmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:13 AM
I might be confused but I think what you are referring to is generally just called grand port de bras, or just circular port de bras.
re: Cambré en rond / tire bouchon
By majeremember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 02:32 AM
balletboyrhys wrote:

I might be confused but I think what you are referring to is generally just called grand port de bras, or just circular port de bras.


Yes, I call it circular port de bras (now that I know what you meant by cambre en rond).
re: Cambré en rond / tire bouchon
By Gioiamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 06:04 AM
balletboyrhys wrote:

I might be confused but I think what you are referring to is generally just called grand port de bras, or just circular port de bras.


Same. I was very confused at first, because cambré en rond would actually not mean anything to me. Here is a decent illustration
Image hotlink - 'http://i.imgur.com/UnL45JIl.jpg'
and somehow this www.youtube.com . . . is the best video I could find.

Of course the movement can also be reversed (see a definition here www.dancer.com . . . under port de bras, insterestingly this website seems to imply that cambre is interchangeable with port de bras.)

This movement is not the same as a port de bras in 5th... or 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc... for that matter.
re: Cambré en rond / tire bouchon
By jetrouve
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:28 AM
Thank you all!
Now I remember one of my teachers (over 20 years ago) having it called a circular port de bras too, so indeed I experienced, people use different names for the same movement :).
re: Cambré en rond / tire bouchon
By balletboyrhysmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 03:20 PM
I was confused by these terms as well! Someone should tell the girl in your illustrations to cross her fifth better. ;)
re: Cambré en rond / tire bouchon (karma: 2)
By CarabosseKPremium member
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 07:46 PM
balletboyrhys wrote:

I was confused by these terms as well! Someone should tell the girl in your illustrations to cross her fifth better. ;)


What if she's in 3rd?
re: Cambré en rond / tire bouchon
By balletboyrhysmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:07 PM
She looks too old for third :)
I have never used third position in any classical ballet class. I've used it some in character. I was under the impression that these days third was only taught to children and for character work.
re: Cambré en rond / tire bouchon
By hummingbird
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:14 PM
balletboyrhys wrote:

She looks too old for third :)
I have never used third position in any classical ballet class. I've used it some in character. I was under the impression that these days third was only taught to children and for character work.


But that is what it is, third position, even though the line drawing looks like it's of an older dancer who should really be using fifth, it's definitely third :P

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