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Religion
Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By ChristinePremium member Comments: 6815, member since Wed Feb 04, 2009
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:37 AM
Edited by Christine (207347) on 2013-02-13 00:38:16 typo

Image hotlink - 'https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/579594_541128672573834_966660259_n.jpg'

The reason given, (old age, failing health), might seem reasonable in just about any other position, but for the last 500 years, every other "infallible" has taken this vocation to the end of the line. I'm just a bit confused.

Although it is a boom for stand up comics and those thrilled with the sound of their own glib or sarcastic wit, there seems to be a lack of consistency in this particular decision.

I wonder if Catholics can now "resign" from their marriages?

Thoughts?

Keep On Dancing*

32 Replies to Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict

re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By LoriCook Comments: 1762, member since Mon Aug 17, 2009
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:50 AM
If the former pope could drag his poor disease stricken body up to say mass until he could no longer move it seems a lack of devotion that every pope is not willing to do so. I think there must be some other reason for the cop out.
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By schuhplattlerPremium member Comments: 3037, member since Sat Dec 23, 2006
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 01:12 PM
A commentator's view (audio)
www.wtop.com . . .
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By imadanseurPremium member Comments: 16604, member since Thu Dec 04, 2003
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 01:28 PM
At 78 when he became pope, he had said he anticipated his papacy would be short.

The pope's schedule is exhausting. There are endless meetings with clergy, diplomats and heads of state. This year he completed hour-long meetings with every bishop in the United States. Not surprising that he might not be able to keep up and he may not want to just serve as the face and take a lower level approach while other people behind the scenes conduct most the day to day business. No reason that the last Pope should have stayed as he was racked with Parkinsons.

And for sure nobody is going to say this was the most well managed papacy!! The butler stealing documents, the money laundering, not to mention the molestation cases and coverups. Sinking ship, maybe he thought a new face for the Catholic Church would help focus on the ministry rather than him continuing to be a distraction.
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By LlamaLlamaDuckmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 7765, member since Sun Nov 21, 2004
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 01:41 PM
How about a pope that will allow female priests and gay marriage? I think hell would freeze over first.

I was never a big fan of pope Benny.

Not that I care who is pope or look up to them as a leader of the church.
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By teenydanseur Comments: 513, member since Mon Nov 23, 2009
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 02:57 PM
I never really liked Ratzinger. His being part of the Nazi Youth party (I understand it was something all Germans did at the time) never set well with me. Lots of people stood up for and died for what they believed is right (in Nazi Germany as well as other similar regimes). No one is perfect, but most of us aren't elect the head of a church. So there is an expectation that those elected the head of the church, those that judge conduct of the people within their religion, should have a near spotless record. It's hard for me to believe that with all of the candidates laid out in front of them, Ratzinger had the least controversial background.

I preferred John Paul ii. His connection with other religions (particularly Islam, Buddhism, Judaism) highlighted the more humble, generous, forgiving aspects of the religion. Despite the fact that I think all of the Pope's are still a bit backward/blind to the realities of the world, as the Pope is largely a figurehead, I think it's very important that their main character and service towards God and others, not be questionable in any way.
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict (karma: 1)
By LlamaLlamaDuckmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 7765, member since Sun Nov 21, 2004
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 03:04 PM
Well apparently a Canadian is one of the front runners for the new pope. So maybe the pointy hat will be replaced with a toque.
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By Nyssasisticmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 3643, member since Sat Sep 20, 2003
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 03:26 PM
You've also got to remember that people are living MUCH longer than they used to as well, and that was probably another factor in his resignation.

I think, all in all, he realized he wasn't able to truly live out the duties of the Pope and stepped down so someone more able could take over. I see it as a selfless act; Instead of being revered as the Pope when he dies, he'll be remembered as "The Pope That Resigned". Sure, he COULD have continued, but only as a mascot for the Churh. However, he wanted someone to be able to truly be a Shepherd, not just a figurehead.

I'm assuming that, from now on, if a Pope ages to the point of being incapacitated, they will resign.
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By LlamaLlamaDuckmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 7765, member since Sun Nov 21, 2004
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 03:39 PM
I have a strange gut feeling he's in early stage alziemers or dementia.

I give him credit for stepping down.

I hope they do elect a younger pope this time around.
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By Moonlitefairy06member has saluted, click to view salute photos Comments: 7177, member since Fri Apr 16, 2004
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 03:59 PM
I was incredibly shocked as I think everyone else was. The last time a pope resigned was 1415 and it was due to complex schisms in the church. I respect that he has acknowledged he's not strong enough to do everything anymore but I find this incredibly strange. The Papacy isn't the type of Lifelong Appointment, like the US Surpreme Court is (where they often retire eventually), it really is lifelong. If he can't travel anymore, that's fine. We have dealt with that with every other pope's eventual decline. I'm not sure why it rubs me the wrong so much, I guess just because I've always been a very traditional Catholic and the papacy run backs all the way to St. Peter himself. The last few years of his life are going to be pretty awkward. What does an ex-pope do? Does he have a role? No one living has experienced this. It's true people are living longer, but there have been older popes. A few Vatican official have said he is physically healthy, I haven't heard anything about any type of mental diagnoses, but that wouldn't be a first either. I guess since John Paul II is the only other Pope I can personally look up to (whom I saw twice in person, Benedict once) maybe I have a really high standard. It will be interesting to watch this unfold. Church Historians will have some major work coming their way.

When all the white smoke settles, I think the new Pope will be someone very different than the past. All of the lists I've seen of potentials only have one European on it. Cardinal Dolan from the NY Archidosse is quite popular in the U.S. though I don't know what the reaction to him would be from the rest of the world. I think a South American is more likely. but who knows. All the lists I've seen (though they have been made by the US media so who know how accurate they are) have been Cardinals in their late 50's or early 60's so it looks like their will be another 20+ year papacy, which was planned. After JPII's quarter century they seemed to have wanted a transition period which they got. Just no one thought the transition would come so soon, especially not in this way.
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By d4jmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 12490, member since Fri Aug 27, 2004
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 04:13 PM
From a cnn article: "When he was 14, school officials followed Nazi officials' orders and enrolled him and the rest of his class in the Hitler Youth movement -- against his will, Ratzinger wrote in his memoir."

www.cnn.com . . .

The article is very interesting. Anyway, I don't know how much responsibility you can hold over a fourteen year old in that situation.
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By UberGoobermember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 6414, member since Sat May 15, 2004
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 04:17 PM
I keep thinking about that Angels and Demons book, lol.

Ok...but in all seriousness, I'm quite surprised. I'm not Catholic, so I didn't really realize how very unusual this was until yesterday (for a pope to resign). I mean....what will he do now?
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By DefyingGravityPremium member Comments: 5265, member since Sun Jan 19, 2003
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 04:27 PM
I never liked him. Stuck in the past and disgustingly conservative. Give me ANYONE else. I'm thrilled he's peacing out.
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By kandykanePremium member Comments: 16415, member since Mon May 01, 2006
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 04:30 PM
By resigning, he is in a unique position to handpick his successor. I am quite sure he is well aware that no Pope in 600 years has resigned. This was a calculated decision, not just an "oh, I'm old and weak" moment. he is thinking about the future of the Papacy beyond his, um, reign, if you will.

Not that I am a Catholic or a fan of Catholocisim. Seriously, what other church has this kind of almost royal hierarchy?

kk~
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By Nyssasisticmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 3643, member since Sat Sep 20, 2003
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:33 AM
Edited by Nyssasistic (74238) on 2013-02-13 09:40:55
^^That's one of the reasons I loved him, lol. I know several people that consider him a pretty liberal Pope. Do you think anyone else would be more liberal, and if so do you think that'll shape their Papal reign? Just curious. I'm definitely on the conservative side of Catholicism but I'd love to hear your point of view to gain some perspective.

Edit: KK, the LDS Church also has a similar construction... And the Church Jesus set up was pretty similar as well. Up until the Reformation, pretty much all of Christianity had a similar set-up. It's only fairly recently that there have been denominations that don't necessarily answer to a higher authority.
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By LlamaLlamaDuckmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 7765, member since Sun Nov 21, 2004
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 04:41 PM
Quite honestly they could do away with the whole vatican and it wouldn't make a difference in my life.

Think about all the money sitting there that could be used to help the people of the world.
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By maureensiobhan Comments: 4726, member since Wed Dec 24, 2003
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 04:47 PM
I always thought from the time that Pope Benedict XVI was elected pope, he didn't look very healthy to begin with. As other posters have said, there must have been some goings-on behind the scenes at the Vatican. I think we'll soon find out soon enough whether there were some issues within the Vatican that influenced Benedict's decision to resign. He may have used failing health as an excuse to step down from the pulpit. After John Paul II, every new pope from now on will have some very big shoes to try to fill.
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By kandykanePremium member Comments: 16415, member since Mon May 01, 2006
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 05:32 PM
It's only fairly recently that there have been denominations that don't necessarily answer to a higher authority.


I'm not talking about just a higher authority within a convention, if you will. I realize many demoninations have these. I'm talking about this kind of international hierarchy that is akin to royalty. Goodness sakes, just look at how the Pope and the Bishops live!

Agree, LLD. It seems there are much better uses for the time, effort and money that is poured into the Vatican.

kk~
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By Moonlitefairy06member has saluted, click to view salute photos Comments: 7177, member since Fri Apr 16, 2004
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 05:59 PM
kandykane wrote:

By resigning, he is in a unique position to handpick his successor. I am quite sure he is well aware that no Pope in 600 years has resigned. This was a calculated decision, not just an "oh, I'm old and weak" moment. he is thinking about the future of the Papacy beyond his, um, reign, if you will.

Not that I am a Catholic or a fan of Catholocisim. Seriously, what other church has this kind of almost royal hierarchy?

kk~


He won't be handpicking his successor. The College of Cardinals who are under age 80 get to do that. Yes you could argue that the majority of the cardinals were appointed by him, but he has no part in the deliberations. The Catholic (which translates to universal) Church is a huge and very traditional "organization". Without a single head leader, I just don't think it would work and the traditions and teachings would be inconsistent. Past popes have resigned to avoid such schisms. When I came in to work today with ashes on my forehead one of my very religious, Protestant co-workers said he wished his church had more traditions the way the Catholic church does. Obviously not everyone feels the same way, but I think it's pretty remarkable how traditions have been kept going for 2000 years and having the Pope is a huge part of that.
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By kandykanePremium member Comments: 16415, member since Mon May 01, 2006
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:04 AM
Edited by kandykane (157761) on 2013-02-13 11:05:13
No.... that's not what I mean. I get how the process works. But he does indeed have the opportunity to pick his successor. It may be behind the scenes, but don't think he won't firmly make his exact wishes known to those who will vote for the next Pope.

kk~
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By Nyssasisticmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 3643, member since Sat Sep 20, 2003
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 06:25 PM
^I fail to see how that is any different from any other Pope? Surely they make their wishes as to who they want next known before they die. The only difference is that he will be able to watch the successor be elected.
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By LlamaLlamaDuckmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 7765, member since Sun Nov 21, 2004
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 06:35 PM
I think they are all a bunch of old fuddy duddys in the end.

I think that the catholic church needs to make some changes in attitudes. Or maybe have a couple of different branches (a liberal one and a conservative one).
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By kandykanePremium member Comments: 16415, member since Mon May 01, 2006
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 06:38 PM
Nyssasistic wrote:

^I fail to see how that is any different from any other Pope? Surely they make their wishes as to who they want next known before they die. The only difference is that he will be able to watch the successor be elected.


Precisely, because the other Popes have been DEAD. And surely their impending deaths were not on the table today, as in the order of business. Guiding the process while alive is very, very different, IMO.

kk~
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By Dancing_EMTmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 3466, member since Wed Dec 08, 2004
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 08:25 PM
Because my husband and I enjoy a good conspiracy theory, we think there is something else going on.

If there isn't, props to him for recognizing he can no longer fulfill his obligations.
re: Shocking announcement by Pope Benedict
By teenydanseur Comments: 513, member since Mon Nov 23, 2009
On Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:31 PM
d4j wrote:

From a cnn article: "When he was 14, school officials followed Nazi officials' orders and enrolled him and the rest of his class in the Hitler Youth movement -- against his will, Ratzinger wrote in his memoir."

www.cnn.com . . .

The article is very interesting. Anyway, I don't know how much responsibility you can hold over a fourteen year old in that situation.


No but he was eventually drafted into the Nazi Army where he served for two years, he eventually "deserted" but it was mostly because at the time the U.S was taking over and everyone was abandoning ship.

Lots of people are consciousness objectors to a draft, people go to jail and get killed to object what they believe in. Perhaps at the time, he did not have the maturity or foresight to object to it, but lots of people his age do.

We all make mistakes in the past but most of us don't have moral authority over an incredibly large group of people. We expect our politicians to be free of tax fraud and to have conducted themselves a certain way throughout their lives. I don't think it's reaching to hold the Pope to a higher moral standard, even when he was 17 or 18.

Also, I never heard him express regret over his decision or wish he had done something different in hindsight (at least I've never seen that published, if someone has please share). Throughout his reign as Pope he seemed to completely lack humility. Or unable to show regret. It comes across as arrogant, in my opinion.
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