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Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8686, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:58 PM
Moved to Debates by imadanseur (79325) on 2013-10-15 14:50:12 request

We have all heard the line that women make 77 cents to every mans dollar. I've always been confused by this and did a bit more research into it. Apparently according to this article. It isn't true.

www.slate.com . . .

I've always thought it meant that if women and men were doing the same exact type of work, there would still be a pay gap.
But I guess they calculate it out on the average pay of all women and all men in different industries?
So if men go into fields that pay better and women gravitate to fields that pay lower, that could be the reason for the gap. Or if women chose to work less hours, that contributes to the gap.

In your opinion what is the reason for this and is there really a " pay gap" in your own company/ industry for males and females?

61 Replies to Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it?

re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? (karma: 3)  en>fr fr>en
By slice Comments: 1247, member since Fri Oct 15, 2004
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 01:52 PM
My main issue with any discussion of the gender pay gap is that it's always split between men/women and it always stops at 77 cents. Conveniently forgetting of course that it's 77 the white women make to a white man's dollar.

(In another thread the topic of feminism came up and I mentioned how I don't consider myself a feminist... well, the discourse circulated by mainstream feminists around the pay gap is one of those reasons!)

Image hotlink - 'http://media.tumblr.com/80651569de910ab2c7b0a7bba9182c12/tumblr_inline_mo7kxdwTQv1rpr1t4.png'
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By Meganmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 12956, member since Wed Mar 17, 2004
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 01:54 PM
It's a lot more complicated than this one article makes it out to be. Many studies still point to men and women in the same position making different amounts. But the whole thing is obviously immensely complicated and nearly impossible to track accurately, especially on a large scale.

Women need to start asking for and being more aggressive about pay raises and salaries generally. Generally, no matter one's gender, it is necessary to be forceful to get the kind of pay you want, and men as a gender are better prepared to so that because women tend to be conditioned in our culture to be less confrontational. It's not black and white, though, and there are certainly women who do pursue career opportunities aggressively and men who wait passively for promotion. Combine that with career interrupting maternity leaves etc., and there you have a pretty good bunch of reasons for salary discrepancies.

In my own life, I have seen this in action. My boyfriend is career-focused and ambitious, and although he has been in his corporate junior-level position for less than two years, he has already received a large (almost 20% salary increase) promotion essentially through sheer force of will. He networks constantly, works conscientiously, and promotes himself shamelessly to his superiors. He's got the minimum necessary qualifications for his new position but he convinced everyone he's perfect for it a and will excel at it, and when they asked him what his salary expectations were he said "Well, the outgoing person was making this amount, so I expect that as well." That person had extra qualifications and way more experience, but my boyfriend was confident and explained he'd be worth it too, and they gave it to him.

Me, on the other hand...I have a great new career but I'm happy in my position, and I have no interest in moving so soon. When my annual review comes up, I'll take the increase I'm offered without argument or negotiation. I'm not lazy but I don't have that fire under my butt to move up like my boyfriend does. And that's fine, but it will be my own fault if someone else in my position is making more than me because I didn't ask for or negotiate an increase. But I'm happy with where I am and what I'm doing, so I don't want to rock the boat.

So, yeah...that's my take on the thing. It's clearly a problem still and one that should be rectified, but it's not as simple as sexist employers deliberately paying women less. If it were, it would be a lot easier to tackle.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8686, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 01:58 PM
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2013-10-15 14:01:20
^^It said in the article that African American women earn 94 cents to a dollar to African American men.

Thanks for linking the chart, it is interesting, slice.
It said in actuality that white women earn 91 cents to the dollar if you take out things like maternity leave, part time work, and make it so that women and men work the same industry.
They said the biggest problem with the gap is the lack of proper procedure for maternity leave , family leave and childcare options.

I took an extra negotiations business class for college, and there were 2 women and 35 men in the class. My professor said that women tend not to want to be aggressive about negotiating for a salary, and they are down a huge disservice to themselves. I was shocked about the lack of women in my class. I really think that women need to be better about being assertive and getting their voices heard.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By slice Comments: 1247, member since Fri Oct 15, 2004
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 02:08 PM
YumYumDoughnut wrote:

^It said in the article that African American women earn 94 cents to a dollar to African American men.


The article phrases it really oddly though. It's like it mentions "it varies wildly by race" and then sort of leaves it off. And it doesn't even mention the fact that MOC generally earn less than white women, which sort of shatters the whole men/women wage dichotomy right then and there.

While I have no problem believing there are indeed sexist employers who will pay women less for the same work, like Megan said it's really a complex argument that needs to take into account not only the types of fields women go into, but the types of fields that are projected as being open to women, and the kinds of environments women encounter when they get there (saying this as someone who started out in an engineering curriculum and from what I've heard of my friend who does nuclear engineering in the Navy). And this is also the type of discussion that needs to be nuanced enough to handle issues of race, since not only like I said is the wage gap not just a men/women issue, just working women themselves are made up largely of women of color.

I know it's kind of a caveat to answer your question with just "this is really complex". But that's the grad student in me I suppose ;)
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8686, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 02:14 PM
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2013-10-15 14:14:53
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2013-10-15 14:18:23 Spelling not whore....whole....
This is just based on personal experience and I don't have " proof or data" for it or anything.

I feel that some women don't outgrow their high school catty phase. I was working at a company and I wanted to move in for a promotion. There was this one girl who was threatened by my success and she interviewed for the same promotion as me. I overheard her telling a male coworker about it. She said she did the interview just to block me out if the position and she didn't even want the job in the first place.
I feel like this kind of cattiness gives us a bad name to the female gender, and if we don't as a whole to act more professionally, it will come across as being catty and unprofessional.
I'm sure males use the same kind of cheap tricks, but I have never heard them gossip about it in the work place.
How many times have you heard a woman gossiping in the lunch room? I have, and it was overwhelmingly the females in the lunch room and the men usually just discussed business.

I understand that not all females are like this, but at the company I was at for over a year, there was a bit of high school girls in the company culture. There was queen bee syndrome running wild among the women. We just hurt ourselves with the constant undermining, trash talking, and catty behavior.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By moara Comments: 955, member since Thu Jun 24, 2004
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 02:42 PM
Edited by moara (97529) on 2013-10-15 14:55:37
Edited by moara (97529) on 2013-10-15 14:56:38
Yes, a significant portion of why women make less than men is that they are not as assertive as men about asking for higher salary, especially in job interviews.

On the other hand, they did a study, and found that women who asked for higher pay during a job interview were perceived as "self-serving", "agressive", and "confrontational" Whereas men who asked the same thing were perceived as "assertive", "go-getters" and "ambitious"

So it's a catch-22 darned if you do and darned if you don't sort of situation.

news.yahoo.com . . .

I also found a TED talk on the subject.

www.ted.com . . .
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By imadanseurPremium member Comments: 16602, member since Thu Dec 04, 2003
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 03:02 PM
I feel that some women don't outgrow their high school catty phase.


And many men don't grow out of an extremely juvenile shovanistic phase either, but let's not get carried away by labeling entire genders based on your situation.

I'm sure males use the same kind of cheap tricks, but I have never heard them gossip about it in the work place.
How many times have you heard a woman gossiping in the lunch room? I have, and it was overwhelmingly the females in the lunch room and the men usually just discussed business.


Men and women communicate differently. Men relate to one another differently, their relationships are extremely different than females so its comparing apples to oranges. Men also don't talk about certain things in front of women, and the amount of sexual innuendos and inappropriate behaviors that HR deals with is heavily in favor of men.

I know 2 people that were involved in teaching and administrative duties in various colleges/universities that say this happens all the time when hiring female professors and male professors. The schools may say they are paying them the same, but a male that is interview for a position might get offered a large stipend for moving, a housing allowance, or a guaranteed raise in a year, while the woman isn't offered that. How to stop that? I just don't know. It's 2013...you'd think we'd be passed that.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By slice Comments: 1247, member since Fri Oct 15, 2004
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 03:22 PM
imadanseur wrote:

I know 2 people that were involved in teaching and administrative duties in various colleges/universities that say this happens all the time when hiring female professors and male professors. The schools may say they are paying them the same, but a male that is interview for a position might get offered a large stipend for moving, a housing allowance, or a guaranteed raise in a year, while the woman isn't offered that. How to stop that? I just don't know. It's 2013...you'd think we'd be passed that.


Seriously! Even in feminized fields (like education) the higher up you go in pay grade and administrative influence the more likely you are to find men. I'm in English and my grad school cohort has 3 women out of 9 total students. Our department has 15 female faculty (not all of them tenured) out of 39 professors, which is actually pretty good. My undergrad institution had a much larger department and roughly the same amount of female professors. Even fewer WOC. And the more you go up the academia food chain (tenured professors > tenured professors with distinctions and grants > administration, etc.) the more these numbers dwindle.

We could say that women in academia are totally unprofessional or simply not as good as what they do (but that's cognitive dissonance isn't it? to claim something like English and Literature as a feminine field but then also claim that the reason why more women aren't in the upper echelons of the field is due to incompetence?). Or we could acknowledge that there's other things at play here; that maybe women aren't getting access to the same kinds of higher paying opportunities that men are. And if we can believe that happens in academia (where everyone is supposed to know better), it's not such a stretch to believe it happens in other lines of work as well.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By Meganmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 12956, member since Wed Mar 17, 2004
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 03:33 PM
I really don't understand this "catty" thing you refer to in a lot of your posts. I can honestly say I've never seen it in the workplace (except when I bartended and worked with a lot of very young girls.) I'll be very honest and say that I wonder if you might be projecting a bit of a preoccupation with "mean girls" onto situations. Almost every post you make mentions this somehow and I just have to say that in my experience, that kind of thing really isn't happening unless you give it a reason. I'm not judging or attacking you, but I am curious about why you seem to have such a higher rate than average of immature, mean people around you. Every corporate type office job I've had (and the business diploma program I took before I got my BA) has had a high percentage of women but I've just never seen infighting like you describe. Is it something in the water in San Francisco or something, haha?
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By imadanseurPremium member Comments: 16602, member since Thu Dec 04, 2003
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 03:41 PM
^I have to agree. I've worked for an architectural firm, housing/landscape development company, for a large hotel chain in group sales, and for 2 restaurants and really only when I was working with 16-18 year old kids did I see the catty behavior you describe.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By lux Comments: 1177, member since Mon Jun 02, 2008
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 06:50 PM
Megan wrote:

I really don't understand this "catty" thing you refer to in a lot of your posts. I can honestly say I've never seen it in the workplace (except when I bartended and worked with a lot of very young girls.) I'll be very honest and say that I wonder if you might be projecting a bit of a preoccupation with "mean girls" onto situations.


I think Megan said this very well. YumYum, I find that a lot of your posts seem to bring up this alleged "cattiness", and use its existence to defend gender inequality. I'm sure (well, I surely hope!) you don't mean it this way, but it comes across as a sort of "Oh well, women don't know any better but to behave like this, so they don't deserve to be treated as equals in the workplace". You seem so intent on blaming femalekind for the state we're in, and I have to say, hearing this attitude spouted from a woman is infinitely more depressing than hearing it from a man.

I agree that there can be a level of competition amongst women in the workplace that differs to that amongst men. However, I'd argue that we're really looking at the cause of this right here in this thread: less high paid, top level jobs present themselves as being available to women.

Let's look at it this way: imagine that I work for a marketing agency as one of seven junior executives and assistants. My team comprises of myself, two other women and four men. Next jump up the pay scale from me is to account management, with our current team made up of three men and one woman. Our account director is a man, and this role has always been filled by a male director.

Now, I'm an ambitious young executive, and I'm eyeing a management role. Technically, all of my junior colleagues are my competition for promotion. But taking a look at my agency, I can see that the further I move up the chain, the less room there is for women. Therefore, I may come to see my female coworkers as greater competition than the males, and even as potential barriers to my progression (remember, there's only one woman senior to me at this agency- they're surely not going to promote all three of us female juniors!).

I think this is a much more likely picture of female competitiveness in the workplace, rather than "women are catty by nature".
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8686, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 07:31 PM
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2013-10-15 19:40:48
It could just be the that I worked for. We had a salary but we also got a bonus for each sale that we made. We did work in concerts and bars and such. If we didn't meet sales goals we got laid off. They never hired anyone over a size 4 and all the girls were pretty and the majority of girls were under 25. If you were over 25 you didn't
Get hired. I heard my boss say that I shouldn't be too sad my friend got fired because she wasnt pretty enough to do promoting in the bars with us.
I do pageants and I work with models. Last year 500 girls auditioned for 32 dance spots.
I guess cattiness is something I deal with a lot but thats because I chose professions that have high competition among women. Maybe if I worked with women who were a bit older it wouldn't be a problem.
it is rare to see a male in the industry so maybe that is where my opinion comes from.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By Meganmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 12956, member since Wed Mar 17, 2004
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 07:44 PM
Edited by Megan (87282) on 2013-10-15 19:45:17
I think it's not so much "high competition" as "competition for shallow reasons": that is, physical appearance. If you choose jobs that require you to be female, young, and attractive, then it doesn't seem super surprising that the women there are, well, shallow. Placing a premium on physical appearance is going to give you people who are very concerned with appearances.

My office right now is probably 75% women, and there is zero "cattiness". Competition for promotions is based on skills, including interpersonal ones, so that wouldn't fly, nor would it be productive. It's not the fact that your fields are dominated by women, it's that they're dominated by women without skills extending past what they look like, from what you are saying. In most offices, being conventionally pretty doesn't get you anything. Yeah, you have to be put-together and present yourself well, but a size 2 doesn't have an advantage over a size 6.

All I'm saying is that your issues with women really don't seem to be issues most people experience in most workplaces and most fields. It is definitely, definitely not universal, nor is it to blame for issues affecting women generally in the workplace. "Catty" women are a tiny minority in the general workforce.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By DefyingGravityPremium member Comments: 5265, member since Sun Jan 19, 2003
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 08:37 PM
YumYumDoughnut wrote:

I guess cattiness is something I deal with a lot but thats because I chose professions that have high competition among women.
Ditto what Megan said.

I work in a profession that is dominated by females - 90%+. That said, there is no superficial cattiness or tearing each other apart because, well, it's a profession. It doesn't matter if we're pretty, we're young, we're skinny, big-boobed, we have good skin... It matters that we are well educated, competent, timely, respectful, organized, well-spoken, and have solid interpersonal skills. Cattiness, gossiping, and tearing each other apart doesn't happen as often as you seem to think it does when you work in a professional environment.

Maybe if I worked with women who were a bit older it wouldn't be a problem.
No, that's not it. I work with mainly 20-somethings. It has nothing to do with age. You work with a bunch of shallow women in a profession where education, professionalism, and respect are not valued.

It is rare to see a male in the industry so maybe that is where my opinion comes from.
Again, definitely not the problem. Women are more than capable of being respectful and professional, even when *gasp* surrounded by other women.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8686, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 08:40 PM
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2013-10-15 20:51:38
Why does being shallow have to do with being catty though? Just because a group of women are hired for looks what does that have to do with being mean to each other?

At my dance teaching job I don't deal with it. It is only during promotional modelling and work in bars and cheer stuff. Why is being shallow being correlated to cattiness?
My friend works at hooters and she complains about the same experience.

The majority of people I worked with all had college degrees. It isn't like we are a bunch of uneducated women who are getting by on looks alone. Anyone of us could have left for another job that didn't involve looks.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By Kekoamember has saluted, click to view salute photos Comments: 8946, member since Sat Jul 19, 2003
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 08:49 PM
Edited by Kekoa (69553) on 2013-10-15 20:54:32
When the majority of your employability depends on how pretty you are and talent and education takes a backseat, there is more reason to tear one another down. In the professional world, you are always able to better yourself; you can get another degree, you can attend conferences, you can put in extra work. You're rarely in direct, explicit competition with another employee. Generally speaking, team work is valued. In looks-based industries, your appearance and connections are what matters and you are always in explicit, direct competition with your peers.

I'm in grad school to become a librarian, and looks mean nothing. It is my first glimpse in how non-competitive many parts of the professional world is. By being catty, you are making yourself look unprofessional, burning bridges (networking is so important) and missing out on friendships. Coincidentally, in this field, it is how good you are at your job and how hard you work that determines whether you succeed or fail. Why would people risk their job and future to gossip about their coworker?
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By Meganmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 12956, member since Wed Mar 17, 2004
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 08:51 PM
Because of what DefyingGravity said. If professionalism, education, hard and soft skills, and respect for others are valued, then people will act in a professional manner.

If your catty techniques get you ahead, then obviously those skills are the ones you'll cultivate. And if looks are valued first, then yeah, that other stuff might fall by the wayside.

I dunno, this seems pretty obvious and not like something that should come as a surprise.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8686, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 08:57 PM
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2013-10-15 21:05:49
Well forgive me for not really " getting it" at first and it doesn't seem like common sense to me. Even if looks are the " main" thing to getting hired why does it automatically lead to being mean. I know my eligibility was based on my looks, but at the same time, I think education and relationships are such important aspects of life in general.
Being catty doesn't get you ahead even in these industries. Maybe dieting, makeup, push up bra might, but being catty to other girls doesn't get you more sales.
Thankfully I am out of that company and now my " main" job is based in merit of being a good dance teacher.

If these women worked on themselves to even become more attractive, they could use the energy for that instead of tearing other women down.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8686, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:04 PM
Lux, that isn't what I meant at all!

I meant it like, women who chose to be catty are showing themselves in a bad light, and it seems unprofessional. I didn't mean to justify that they should get paid less.

I also meant to say is that another thing is that there are only so many spots for women. Most CEOs are men, so maybe they feel like they have to best all the other people for that spot. There just aren't enough spots for top levels in certain industries for women. I am not sure if I already said that in this debate, but I did bring that point up in another one for sure.
If there were higher paying spots exclusively reserved for a certain percentage of women in th company, other women might be more likely to nurture other women and team work together to the top.
If only 1 woman was getting a raise, would you nurture her to get that raise, or would you want it for yourself?
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By lux Comments: 1177, member since Mon Jun 02, 2008
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:08 PM
I'd also wager that holding a job where your success is based almost entirely on your physical appearance will lead to far higher levels of insecurity than a job where other factors hold greater importance. Attractiveness is so much more subjective than intellect, level of education, punctuality, organisation etc. Insecurity breeds cattiness, and there you have it.

I just don't understand why you're SO attached to the notion that female cattiness is womankind's biggest problem :/
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8686, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:17 PM
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2013-10-15 22:19:44
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2013-10-15 22:23:44
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2013-10-15 22:26:21
^ I didn't think it is woman biggest issue. I am not sure where I said that?

I just feel that gossip in the workforce is unprofessional and I am also against bullying in general. I have a hard time taking people serious when they gossip in the work place. Sure, I occasionally gossip to friends and online website, but I don't do it in the work place because I feel that it brings the professional levels down.
While the majority in this thread hasn't experienced it in the work force, I have. The majority of the time, I wasn't the victim of their bullying but I have seen how it first hand effects other people.

So yes, when I have seen such bullying and other women calling other workers fat, it DOES bother me,

My point is, I have a hard time taking the majority of people at MY old job seriously because they were gossips and put others down. If I saw that in a male coworker, I would have the same reaction. It just happened that I only saw woman doing it, but if a male had, I would have also called him out just like I would have to a woman.
Just because people hasn't seen it happen at their work, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen to other. As Megan said, she experienced it in a bar, which was the location of most of our sales.

Where did you even get that I was talking about ALL companies or even about other women? I said " we" hurt ourselves at the company by gossiping. My post said nothing about women as a whole in gender. I said SOME woman didn't outgrow high schools and that's what hurt our company. Where did I say anything about women as a whole? I already said I don't have facts or data, just MY experience at my company. Who are you to tell me my experiences aren't valid?

When I said " women as a whole are hurting our gender" I said it in regards to MY specific company. I never pretended this was based on fact or even the company culture of any other company. I said it was a personal experience.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By toroandbruinmember has saluted, click to view salute photos Comments: 3627, member since Fri Oct 10, 2008
On Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:25 PM
Megan wrote:

My boyfriend...promotes himself shamelessly to his superiors. He's got the minimum necessary qualifications for his new position but he convinced everyone he's perfect for it a and will excel at it, and when they asked him what his salary expectations were he said "Well, the outgoing person was making this amount, so I expect that as well." That person had extra qualifications and way more experience, but my boyfriend was confident and explained he'd be worth it too, and they gave it to him.
Before getting my current internship I attended some workshops on writing resumes, interviewing, etc. Resumes these days are supposed to stress all the incredible ways in which you helped your employers increase their bottom line by lots of $$$. Personally I find most of the resumes I read today as braggy and unrealistic.

The experts conducting the workshops said that men tend to overstate their qualifications in a resume and women tend to understate them. So the advice for the women is to try to overstate. Being a woman, I feel uncomfortable with that tactic. After all, I'll have to live up to the qualifications presented!

My son-in-law, who works in a computer networking field, mentioned that at his company there is a huge turnover in employment. I asked if that was because people didn't like the working environment and quit a lot? He said, no, not at all, it was because the company hired new people then found they couldn't do half the things they said they could do. Maybe they should hire more women.

Except that, inexplicably, the number of women going into computer and IT fields has been DECREASING! Why? When it comes to programming, people who are good at languages are often good at programming languages and I've read statistics showing women are as a whole better at languages than men. Plus IT does not involve swinging sledgehammers or other skills requiring sheer muscle, so you would think that women, especially, would be swarming to these well-paid fields. But no.

It's a complex subject.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8686, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:33 AM
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2013-10-16 00:40:39
^ At my college, they had scholarships for women specifically going into the computer coding field or engineering field. I wonder why women don't pursue male dominated majors more in college?

I was reading a study a while back and ( don't quote me on this) but they said this kind of discrimination starts in elementary schools. There are biases for boys and girls and teachers treat them different. Adults tell little girls " oh my, what a pretty dress you are so pretty". Someone on DDN posted a meme about this, and it recommended asking a girl what her favorite book was etc etc.

There should be a way to tunnel more women into male dominated college majors.

Several women who were science majors decided not to work in labs after graduation because they didn't like the isolation. One went into a job of communications. I also wonder why these women tunneled out of the field. It seems strange that they put all this money and effort into their education and they decided to do something totally different. I wonder if it is a discrimination issue they faced or something else.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? en>fr fr>en
By imadanseurPremium member Comments: 16602, member since Thu Dec 04, 2003
On Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:36 AM
So yes, when I have seen such bullying and other women calling other workers fat, it DOES bother me,


Let's be clear that you weren't working in corporate America. You were working for a company that was doing things like various bar promotions where the company was relying on your sex appeal to make money for them. So the gender pay gap and all this nonsense about women in the professional workforce probably doesn't match up with what you were doing.
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