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re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it?
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 15032, member since Thu Feb 14, 2002
On Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:01 AM
imadanseur wrote:

No they just disguise it better. My husband works in a male dominated field. Do women equal to him get asked to go out on company golf outings? Are they offered box seats to sporting events or do they get tickets to concerts at the rate my husband does? NOPE! When a headhunter is looking for another person to fill a sales job did they even look for a woman? No, they were only looking for males but they would never admit that. They have their token women and one of them out sells the men and wins every cruise or sales prize and she is still treated like a red-headed step child. So I'm thinking that maybe someone that isn't actually working in corporate America and has spent most of their time in school has a completely different view and can tell all the rest of us how silly we are being for talking about pay gaps.

In the architecture firm I worked for, the one female was brilliant, and yet she 75% of jobs than the males. They placed people with the job they thought would fit best. (Meaning if a client had all male staff and the contractors etc didn't want to work with a woman she wasn't up for the job.) She got the same pay...but not the same amount of work that DID affect her pay. Seriously we are not equal in the work force.



This is not a question of opinion. The unexplained gender pay gap is between 5 and 7%. This is a fact. You may look it up in any publication you would like. This is undisputed. Often misrepresented, yes. Disputed, no.

This is a very small percentage and, when we are dealing with statistics this massive and complicated, it is not easy to rule out every single possibility and state with complete certainty that the unexplained gap is due to discrimination. In fact, due to the nature of quantifying a subject such as "discrimination," I would be very skeptical of anyone stating that they've statistically proven anything regarding it. I'm not in a minority here- social scientists shy away from absolutes, not only because we are not Siths, but because it's misleading and bad science.

If you want to debate where that 5-7% comes from, fine. But it is no more or less than that, and study after study has come up with similar numbers.

By the way, I am a proud member of corporate America, thank you very much. If you're going to make personal jabs, which is pretty poor form in the first place, considering I was nothing but polite and merely correcting a common misconception, you should make an effort to be at the very least accurate about it.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it?
By Coccinellamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 5930, member since Sat Jan 25, 2003
On Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:10 AM
Edited by Coccinella (54968) on 2013-10-18 11:15:30
Are there not laws in the US to help eliminate the gender pay gap and to encourage employment equity (affirmative action in the US) and equal pay for equal work?

If I knew that a male that was doing substantially the same work as me for the same employer and that we had the same responsibilities, skills, effort, and we worked under similar conditions I would have grounds to file a complaint with the British Columbia Human Rights Tribunal or I could start a civil lawsuit with the Supreme Court of British Columbia.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it?
By imadanseurPremium member Comments: 16604, member since Thu Dec 04, 2003
On Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:21 AM
Edited by imadanseur (79325) on 2013-10-18 11:23:48 fixed quote
Edited by imadanseur (79325) on 2013-10-18 11:29:29 ..
This is not a question of opinion. The unexplained gender pay gap is between 5 and 7%.


I'm totally aware of what studies have said, how choice matters blah blah blah. In these studies they haven't looked at hiring practices, bonuses/perks, expense accounts etc. NONE of those things are taken into account in your little studies that are fact.

I'm glad you've never had to deal with wage discrimination, but there is a TON of credible evidence regarding wage discrimination that proves it does exist. For example, the author a Huff Post article references a study that provides evidence of sexual bias among university science faculty.


According to a study that was published in the Academy of Management Perspectives (the article titled...Have women gone as far as they can) 'women need an additional degree in order to make as much as men with a lower degree over the course of a lifetime. A woman would need a doctoral degree, for instance, to earn the same as a man with a bachelor degree, and a man with a high school education would earn approximately the same amount as a woman with a bachelor degree.'

In a randomized double-blind study (n = 127), science faculty from research-intensive universities rated the application materials of a student -- who was randomly assigned either a male or female name -- for a laboratory manager position. Faculty participants rated the male applicant as significantly more competent and hireable than the (identical) female applicant. These participants also selected a higher starting salary and offered more career mentoring to the male applicant.


The reason the pay gap is unexplained is even further disturbing! With no measurable reason for a difference in pay we can assume sexism, unintentional gender discrimination, or a plain old reluctance among women to negotiate for higher pay is a factor. For women to poo-poo this and say this isn't a real thing and the rest of us are just imagining it and the problem isn't that big of a deal is really sad. Women have a hard time breaking into male dominated fields (oooohhhh but that isn't real either is it? Just my opinion...my bad.) Doesn't matter there is a ton of evidence to support that either.

Are there not laws in the US to help eliminate the gender pay gap and to encourage employment equity (affirmative action in the US)?


Yes, but it is hard to prove. I have a client that has told me to my face he'll never hire another woman again in his male dominated company. It causes too many problems. One instance co-workers slept together and created issues, and another time a receptionist filed a lawsuit over something the co-owner did. (and she should have continued with it because she would have won), but he'll never hire another woman ever again. Legally he has to have interviews with them or accept their applications, and he can defend his actions by saying other people were more qualified, better fit etc.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it?
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8688, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:31 AM
^ If a company has almost 100% male and a female didn't get hired even if she had qualifications, can't she file a discrimination suit? I don't doubt what you are saying at all Renae, its just, I find it hard that a male can get away with NOT ever hiring a female again.
If he only hired males, wouldn't he have a track record of never hiring females and isn't that playing with fire?
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it?
By imadanseurPremium member Comments: 16604, member since Thu Dec 04, 2003
On Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:44 AM
He's a small business, works in IT which is a male dominated field, and a woman is going to have a hard time proving they are more qualified that someone else especially if they don't know who they might have hired. He doesn't actively post positions, he has a head hunter, so they aren't recruiting women, they outsourced their reception/office work for the most part.

My husband used to have an electrical company that worked for housing development that only hired men too. Of course they could never ever ever say that, but if they needed another electrician they asked around to other males to see if they had friends and there aren't a ton of female electricians so nobody says anything which is why this is more than just pay discrimination (which clearly doesn't exist.)
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it?
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8688, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:53 AM
Ah that makes sense.

I was thinking like he was the boss of a company with 50+ employees and he decided never to hire a woman for the company. If there were 120 males with 0 females, I would venture to think that a female who has just as many qualifications didn't get hired, could be based on discrimination and she might have a case.

I feel like certain careers are filled with more males due to their requirements. For example, my bfs team members have to run a 7 minute mile, bench press their weight+50lbs, body drag and run obstacle courses. It isn't that they don't hire females, they actually have one on the team right now. The majority of women ( and most men) couldn't pass the course to begin with. Sure they could come up with different standards for males and females, but mother nature/criminals don't care if the person is a female. That female will have to drag a 200 person out of a situation regardless of the fact that she is male or female.
Honestly a lot of men had an issue with a female being on the team, but once she proved herself, she became to be respected as a peer and equal.

If it is computer science or places that uses the brains of the individual instead of physical requirements, I find it so sad they won't hire females.

I know this was brought up before, but what about men of minorities? Is it the fact that it is harder for them to get a proper education that they have to go to lower paying jobs? If you look at the college graduation rates of blacks and hispanics, they are a lot lower then a white or asian male.
Is it the fact that they aren't white that they aren't getting these jobs, thus they can't afford great schools for their own children?
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it?
By SarahdncrPremium member Comments: 634, member since Wed Jul 29, 2009
On Sun Oct 20, 2013 06:46 AM
There is no gender "Pay Gap" at my company---We're all under paid as it is!!! :>)

Seriously, I am employed by the US Govt (the Forces) and all pay is equal for everyone (regardless of gender) who is of the same rank, with the same number of years in govt service. That goes the same if you are in uniform or are a civilian employee. This is probably a big reason I have made it a career with them, I never had to worry about a glass ceiling.

However, some very in demand professions (mostly medical folks and the pilots) do get different additional "pro-pays" for being trained in a certain medical specialty or a board certification. This is to try to attract and keep medical professionals in the Forces, and give them some monetary equality to what those doing the same work can make in the private sector.

Same goes for the pilots, as before 9/11 the airlines were sucking them all up and we were loosing too many of them, we had to pay them big flying bonuses to stay in. Then the economy tanked and we had the war years so a lot stayed in. Today a ton are leaving again to join the airlines once again, so we have stated again to give them a lot of extra cash to try to keep them in.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it?
By RileyA Comments: 3120, member since Tue Jan 03, 2006
On Sat Oct 26, 2013 04:22 PM
In my country (Australia) there is no difference at all between what men earn and what women earn for the same job.

However in general the female population earn less than the male population. As women gravitate more to jobs like teaching and nursing that are less well paid, and more women stay out of the work force or work part time to care for families.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it?
By Tishwah Comments: 586, member since Sun May 17, 2009
On Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:50 AM
RileyA wrote:

In my country (Australia) there is no difference at all between what men earn and what women earn for the same job.
I would argue that, in goverment jobs where the payscale is very obviously published yes I agree with you. But once you are in private industry it is a free for all that is often down to negotiating skills.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it? (karma: 1)
By Odessamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 11250, member since Tue Feb 26, 2002
On Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:27 PM
RileyA wrote:

In my country (Australia) there is no difference at all between what men earn and what women earn for the same job.

Disagree.

Erin.
::righteous babe::
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it?
By dancin_til_death Comments: 4381, member since Sat May 08, 2004
On Wed Oct 30, 2013 09:16 PM
RileyA wrote:

In my country (Australia) there is no difference at all between what men earn and what women earn for the same job.

However in general the female population earn less than the male population. As women gravitate more to jobs like teaching and nursing that are less well paid, and more women stay out of the work force or work part time to care for families.


That would be nice, but you are incorrect. According to the latest Global Gender Gap Report

reports.weforum.org . . .#=

In relation to wage equality between women and men for similar work women make 0.67 of what men make. This is despite the fact that we have complete equality in regards to educational attainment. We are ranked overall no. 24 in the world for gender wage equality and currently being taken to the cleaners by our neighbours NZ who rank a crazy 7.
re: Gender pay gap. What is your opinion of it?
By majeremember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 5889, member since Sat Sep 29, 2007
On Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:10 PM
I don't know. I mean it does exist, but I personally haven't encountered it. I'm a city government employee. There are pay scales on our intranet, how much a raise should be each year etc. It's very regimented. I also work in a female dominated field.
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