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re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8686, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Fri Nov 22, 2013 03:26 PM
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2013-11-22 15:44:08
Slice, I saw that. I thought I gave you karma for it, guess not. Opps.


childfreefeminist.wordpress.com . . .
soulpancake.com . . .

Obviously this isn't proof or anything like that, but I almost feel that childless women overcompensate for their lack of children, by roaring at the top of their lungs that they are happily childfree. As a nanny for 6 years, I can't even begin to tell you how many childless people have told me " I don't dislike kids, just the ill behaved ones" or " can't you just spank them or something, stop their tantrum!".

I see sooooo many hastags with people drinking saying #childfree. Or facebook posts of them saying how happy they are to be childfree. They chose to be childfree, why the heck do they need to justify it? It seems pathetic.

I didn't understand how anyone can dislike children or animals, but plenty of people do. I've had kids throw up on me, yell at their lungs for hours, throw tantrums and none of that phases me. I like children in general , even if they are ill behaved.
It's like telling an animal lover that you hate animals. My mom dislikes animals and children, and I never understood why at all. Just because I chose to be childfree doesn't automatically mean that I dislike children!

How's that for a crazy hijack.
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8686, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Fri Nov 22, 2013 03:32 PM
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2013-11-22 15:33:46
Louise, thank you for your kind words. With your paraphrasing, it makes a lot more sense. I feel like most people in DDN aren't like the rude ones I encountered in real life, but they do exist by the dozen. At the same time, they hate cops to begin with, so that could be part of the problem ;) If a cop died on duty, they would probably just say " well he chose that occupation, too bad for him!" I haven't responded to the people who said that, but it did make me realize that people like that are out there.
Some people were raised in a barn with their manners, I guess.
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By Dancing_EMTmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 3410, member since Wed Dec 08, 2004
On Fri Nov 22, 2013 03:53 PM
My mom dislikes animals and children, and I never understood why at all.


That's something I've NEVER understood, If you dislike kids, why would you have them?

Spiders creep me out, so why would I keep one as a pet? There are people out there who think they're awesome, but I'm not one of them. LOL. More tarantulas for them!

Kids are like everything else. Dogs, cats, sushi, meat, etc. Some people like them, some don't. Yes, I just compared liking kids to liking sushi, sue me. Different strokes for different folks.
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By slice Comments: 1247, member since Fri Oct 15, 2004
On Fri Nov 22, 2013 04:15 PM
YumYumDoughnut wrote:

Slice, I saw that. I thought I gave you karma for it, guess not. Opps.


childfreefeminist.wordpress.com . . .
soulpancake.com . . .

Obviously this isn't proof or anything like that, but I almost feel that childless women overcompensate for their lack of children, by roaring at the top of their lungs that they are happily childfree. As a nanny for 6 years, I can't even begin to tell you how many childless people have told me " I don't dislike kids, just the ill behaved ones" or " can't you just spank them or something, stop their tantrum!".

I see sooooo many hastags with people drinking saying #childfree. Or facebook posts of them saying how happy they are to be childfree. They chose to be childfree, why the heck do they need to justify it? It seems pathetic.

I didn't understand how anyone can dislike children or animals, but plenty of people do. I've had kids throw up on me, yell at their lungs for hours, throw tantrums and none of that phases me. I like children in general , even if they are ill behaved.
It's like telling an animal lover that you hate animals. My mom dislikes animals and children, and I never understood why at all. Just because I chose to be childfree doesn't automatically mean that I dislike children!

How's that for a crazy hijack.


See, I don't notice any of the kinds of comments that you see coming across your timeline. In fact, besides DDN, I can't even remember the last time I witnessed (via in person or online) an instance of outright child hating. My friends and I are so far away from planning children it's not even funny, but it's not like we go around tagging our going out pictures with #childfree or anything. The topic of children comes up so rarely and even when it does, our discussion is more along the lines of "When I have my kids... " or "I think I'd rather have my kid raised in the city/suburbs because....," etc.

It almost sounds like those people are just trying to throw some snark at a specific person they may know who does have kids - maybe someone who obsessively posts about their kid on social media? I'm "friends" with someone who graduated two years ahead of me in high school whose now pregnant with her third child. Thank goodness for the hide update feature because this woman makes about 10 separate photo posts a day of her kids doing this or that. Yes, it's annoying. The high road would be to just ignore it or hide their updates. The low road would be to retaliate passive aggressively by glorifying my childfree life. Obviously I chose the former.

So I get what you're saying and I believe you when you say you've seen a prevalence of nasty attitudes around children, I'm just saying that from my end I don't see it, which might mean it's not so much a trend as it is a feature of a certain age bracket that's been exacerbated by the invention of social media.
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8686, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Fri Nov 22, 2013 04:20 PM
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2013-11-22 16:22:40
She had them because everyone else was having them. Keeping up with Jones I guess. If she truly enjoyed kids, I'm sure she would have felt guilty for using us to fulfill a trophy fantasy.
It's like people keeping dogs for dog fights. True dog lovers would never keep dogs for dog fights, but those who dislike dogs would have no issues keeping them around.

Don't get me wrong, my mom tried to be a good mom but that's just not in her DNA. She celebrated the day I moved out of the house and she finally got to stop being a mom and taking care of me.
I feel you on spiders, I scream like a baby.

Slice that totally could be it. I have a couple of friends I went to high school with posting annoyingly about their children numerous times a day. They even post about their baby pooping. Now that I think about it, it probably is snark.
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? (karma: 2)  en>fr fr>en
By kandykanePremium member Comments: 16315, member since Mon May 01, 2006
On Fri Nov 22, 2013 05:40 PM
Here's my take - Christmas, at my house, happens whenever *I* say it's Christmas. I always work around my kids (one who is a floor nurse at a hospital and works many holidays) and their significant others and my granddaughter, who sometimes has to spend Christmas with her dad's family. Christmas is whatever day we can all be together. It doesn't matter to me if it actually happens on Christmas Day or the day before, the day after, we've even celebrated Christmas on New Year's Eve.

My mom is less flexible, Christmas is ALWAYS on Christmas Day, no exceptions. Consequently, some family members don't always come because of work responsibilities or poor weather. It is more important to me that my family is together and less important what day it happens to fall on. Kids are flexible, they'll be ok. Small children don't know what day it is unless you tell them. Older kids can be told "we are celebrating when the family is together". If you are worried about keeping them in suspense, celebrate early.

kk~
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? en>fr fr>en
By Gioiamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 3024, member since Sun Jun 20, 2004
On Fri Nov 22, 2013 06:08 PM
^ My family is the same way. Christmas is whenever we are together. I don't ever remember feeling slighted or upset if we had to celebrate on a day other than December 25th. When we were younger most of the time we celebrated "on time" because my parents worked jobs that had that day off work, but that is not the case anymore. It is a nice gesture to offer to work for someone else so they can have that day off. But really if you have children and get stuck working Christmas are you really saying that it somehow ruins the holiday? It can be difficult, but it is possible and if you are making the kids feel special and important and help them understand the true spirit of the holiday then it shouldn't be such a terrible sacrifice.

When I managed a video store that was open 365 days a year I would put out a sign up in October and luckily my employees were very amicable and would volunteer for the holidays that they were ok working. I would then fill in the gaps. I remember one year I was signed up to work Christmas Eve night and Christmas morning. At about 10pm on Christmas Eve I suddenly felt so sick, so I told my coworker that I needed to go to the restroom in case I threw up. Well I did... over and over and over. He was worried about me and called MY boss who drove out to the store and insisted I go home. I was so upset that she had to come in but she was so nice about it and even came back the next morning and worked my shift. She understood, her family understood and I was so grateful to be working with such wonderful people. It isn't the end of the world.

If someone wants to be generous, then more power to them! But life goes on, and the sooner you learn to be flexible, the better, and I think that is a good lesson for children as well.
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? en>fr fr>en
By Munkensteinmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 14381, member since Mon Aug 11, 2003
On Fri Nov 22, 2013 07:20 PM
The whole situation makes me glad I don't have kids and that I don't really get into holidays. If I don't see my family on some designated day, whatever, I'll see them when I see them. This attitude probably comes from the fact that my family is scattered all over the place; people who grew up with everybody close together seem to have other ideas.

It works out nicely because I have always tended to work around Thanksgiving and Christmas then take my leave at other times when it's easier. Plus if I worked around the holiday time they were more likely to let me take off whenever. ;)

Thankfully my new job doesn't require constant coverage, so everybody could take the same day off and it would be okay. It's a nice change.
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? (karma: 3)  en>fr fr>en
By Odessamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 11250, member since Tue Feb 26, 2002
On Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:23 AM
I will put my hand up and say I dislike children. I don't outright hate them, but I do regard them as something like an annoying bug. They make a lot of noise and aren't very useful.

Having said that, I really love it when people I know make babies. Mark's sister has had a baby recently, and I am very excited to go meet him, and shower him with presents. I think it's very exciting when a new baby comes along and I am always very glad for my friends and family when they have a new one. I just avoid holding them because they are so small and fragile and make me nervous.

I have very little use for babies and toddlers (see: noisy, not useful) but I love kids when they are a bit older, say around 10 and up. They're smart, inquisitive, playful, past that let's play the same game over and over for hours, or ask "but whyyyyy? but whyyyy?" over and over again thing that I just find so tiresome. They are old enough to help with tasks and participate in activities, and understand how to interact with the world around them beyond just screaming or destroying stuff.

It makes me sad when bad things happen to children. I donate to charities that assist children living in poverty. Children grow up to be adults and it is important that they have a good foundation to do that from, and are afforded as many opportunities as possible.

But if you forgot to put in your leave request and now have to work Christmas, that is sooooo not my problem. I'm not switching, you need to plan your life better.

Erin.
::righteous babe::
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? en>fr fr>en
By ShadowLunaCatPremium member Comments: 8757, member since Sun Sep 12, 2004
On Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:26 AM
I consider the holidays: Thanksgiving, Hannukah, Yule, Christmas, Kwanzaa, New Year's, etc. to be those times when families get together, spend time with eachother, and bask in that glow of togetherness.

If a retail store is going to be closed for Thanksgiving/Christmas usually there is a notification on the front page of its' circular or on its' website: We will be closed for N holiday so that our employees can spend time with their families.

There were some jobs that I worked for that were open during the holidays. The employee handbook for those jobs usually stated that an employee working on a holiday got time and a half to double time.

I've worked for a pharmacy for first shift on a holiday, being able to join my family at 3pm. And then, when I did security, I had early Christmas with my family, and, even though my mother didn't like it, went to work and did my second shift.

Then, too, some employees brought their kids to a job site, and put them in a common area, thus there was a bit of "Christmasing" going on in the midst of getting work done.

I think the only time that "a childless employee [would] trade off with someone for Christmas" would be if that employee would be traveling someplace else for the holidays.. maybe their family would have Christmas at a later date, or that family had activities. I also agree with the previous poster that there are some jobs where working on the holidays is a first-come, first-served. The hospitals need to be staffed. The pharmacies need to be staffed.

I don't know if this matters but I swapped shifts with an employee, working her Hannukah shifts while she did my Christmas.

And then I went home, made cookies with my niece, and then played nok hockey with my nephew. Afterwhich I played string with my feline daughter, who is my... fur-covered child. ;)


Shadow.
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? en>fr fr>en
By tumblebugPremium member Comments: 10100, member since Fri Mar 29, 2002
On Sat Nov 23, 2013 06:25 AM
Edited by tumblebug (25049) on 2013-11-23 06:27:08
I don't mind working a holiday rotation. What I do mind is when people who have high seniority, no family, and are bitter with the world deliberately schedule their vacations around the holiday so no one else can have the holiday off. Then they sit at home by themselves in front of the tv doing absolutely nothing when someone else could've enjoyed that time with their family (note: I said FAMILY, not children, so I'm supporting all angles here). Heck I would invite them over to my house if I wasn't working due to their self-pity party.
Our holiday rotation basically got thrown out the window due to this and I ended up working every holiday being at the bottom of seniority, when it is suppose to be a rotation. Luckily we are closed on Thanksgiving and Christmas so at least I get those days off, but working before and after can be just as bad sometimes.
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? en>fr fr>en
By LlamaLlamaDuckmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 7765, member since Sun Nov 21, 2004
On Sat Nov 23, 2013 07:17 AM
As for holydaysof obligation... God is more forgiving than kids.

In the past I would have switched so someone with kids could spend Christmas with them but hells no for someone to go to church.
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By aerial Comments: 1170, member since Sun Sep 02, 2001
On Sat Nov 23, 2013 08:20 AM
When I worked in emergency medicine I would almost always swap. I would seek it out and would quietly even consider extra perks co workers would add to pad the deal (cookies, a day off I really wanted, buying lunch) because I don't have kids by choice and I love money and most major holidays is time and a half! I am married but my husband feels the same way. To us Christmas is just another day. Although we do try to get Thanksgiving off because we love to cook together and feast.

I def. do not think anyone should be forced to or ever feel obligated to. It was those folks decision to have children and work in a field where they might have to work, not mine.

In the end as nice as we want to be as people we mostly are just out for ourselves as far as what we want and what is benifical to us.
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? en>fr fr>en
By imadanseurPremium member Comments: 16603, member since Thu Dec 04, 2003
On Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:07 PM
When I worked at a job where it was required to work all holidays, it wasn't just a question of who had kids, but we all discussed what family obligations we had going on. If someone had oodles of family coming in town or someone had a relative that was likely to be their last Christmas the rest of us would cover and vice versa. I worked with a lot of generous people, and several of us were in college and needed extra money (double time on Holidays like Christmas day and Thanksgiving!!)
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? en>fr fr>en
By dancin_til_death Comments: 4381, member since Sat May 08, 2004
On Sun Nov 24, 2013 02:08 AM
YumYumDoughnut wrote:


On the other side, I have people telling me that my Boyfriend is a moron for not spending christmas with me, and obviously he doesn't truly love me. He is a moron for volunteering to switch so other kids can have Christmas with their family. They believe that children aren't worth much, and he should value Christmas more with me, then switching with his friends. I got crap about it from 2 of my peers. They said they would never chose to date someone for abandoning them on a Holiday he has off. I think it makes them selfish that they think like that, and they don't see it as a good thing that my Boyfriend switched.


I don't have any original thoughts, but man ^^ this irked me. Don't you just hate outsiders who choose to have an opinion of your relationship? My boyfriend has a life dream to go to the Brazil world cup. I would have adored to go with him however because I work in a hospital I was unable to get leave. This has several implications. For one because he is dedicating all of his leave to that - he has agreed to not take leave elsewhere. Now there have been a bunch of people who think that because I am "letting" him go off for 5 weeks with mates and not coming on my travel adventure that we don't have a good relationship. Total bull. I think the fact that we both are making sacrifices - I am having an epic girl shopping travel adventure next month in Paris - that we somehow don't have a strong relationship. Really absolutely absurd.

Indeed we do this a lot. We both have fairly high powered careers. At the moment neither one of us is the "supporting partner". This means that often one of us will take off for a conference or meeting in a different city and leave the other one alone. I personally think we are a better couple when we both have such fun diverse challenging lives to chat about.

I have taken shifts for other parents before, however some people abuse this a little. It grates because its not just Christmas. Hospitals have to be covered 24/7 and that means evenings, nights and weekends have people rostered on.
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? en>fr fr>en
By Damhnaitmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 690, member since Sun Apr 22, 2007
On Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:25 AM
Steve is still a kid. How exactly do you decide who's time is worth more as a parent/non parent when it's not so cut and dry?


This happened to me. I was eighteen years old and worked at a doggy day care. The day care was closed on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, but because people would board their dogs there so they could travel, someone still had to come in and feed, let out, play with, and give medication to the dogs in the building. On Christmas day, I had to work a double shift. Granted, these closed-day shifts were only three hours each, but I had to work 6am to 9am and then again 4pm to 7pm. These shifts, due to there only being 5 o 10 dogs there, only needed one employee to man the building since it was closed and no one would be coming in.

I spent Christmas day seeing my family between 10am and 3pm (driving allowance included) and again after 8pm. I missed the holiday party, and spent Christmas with no one but 5 dogs that year. Two women asked off because they had children, another was going on a cruise with her new husband the others switched with the mothers because they were guilt tripped much like this post. It was my first Christmas without being able to see my family, was it justified because I have no children and I was technically an adult (18) at the time?

No. Christmas is Christmas. I don't care if you have kids, I don't care if a coworker's family is across the globe. No one is entitled to have that shift off more than anyone else. If they want to take it, fine, but mothers should NOT be approaching other employees to guilt them into taking the shift because they have children. I wanted to be with my mom and dad that year, why can't Christmas be magical for us anymore even though we're adults?
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? en>fr fr>en
By SaraTheGrouchmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 8600, member since Thu Apr 17, 2003
On Sun Dec 22, 2013 02:43 PM
Hell no.

I work double, if not triple, the amount of holidays that I'm required to, primarily because I'm not a religious person and don't have much by way of family to see. So, as a nice person, I work so others can be home celebrating. But if anyone ever forced me into any of it due to circumstances such as being childless or an atheist, I'd go bonkers.

Everyone can celebrate holidays. They may just have to do it on a different day than the calendar suggests.
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? en>fr fr>en
By ballerinatwirler Comments: 2083, member since Sat May 29, 2004
On Sun Dec 22, 2013 07:19 PM
I thought of this thread the other day when an old friend posted on Facebook " So glad I don't have to work on Christmas Eve because my new job doesn't schedule parents to work holidays". I was annoyed because it gives people a self of entitlement.
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? en>fr fr>en
By majeremember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 5866, member since Sat Sep 29, 2007
On Sun Dec 22, 2013 08:15 PM
ballerinatwirler wrote:

I thought of this thread the other day when an old friend posted on Facebook " So glad I don't have to work on Christmas Eve because my new job doesn't schedule parents to work holidays". I was annoyed because it gives people a self of entitlement.


What would they do if everyone who worked there had kids?
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? (karma: 3)  en>fr fr>en
By Chaconnemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 6350, member since Thu Jul 12, 2007
On Sun Dec 22, 2013 09:30 PM
My work contract with the government was "any shift, anywhere on Earth, any time." In normal circumstances with my usual jobs, being off on Christmas was pretty usual. It is a Federal Holiday and most years we could take leave (that's vacation in governmentese) pretty much at will. But if there was a work crisis and those of us in the Intelligence Service were involved, we worked no matter what day it was. In my early career when I was one of the comparatively few Arabic linguists I worked on many holidays, often 12 and 16 hour shifts. I also spent three years in my agency's Command Center, the 24/7/365 watch center. We had four teams to cover three shifts, usually working two cycles of six days each, followed by two days off and you changed shifts from days to eves to mids every two cycles. If Christmas or any other holiday came on your rotation, you worked it. We got shift differential pay and double time for holidays. You got a premium of 17% increase in pay when you had an assignment like that, and there was an implicit overtime built in with a schedule like that. I spent several Christmases and New Years that way even through usually the inter-holiday period was quieter that most times. We manned the system called CRITICCOM, which required that any political, military, of disaster event could be reported to the President of the US with 10 minutes of recognition, about as fast as the communications of that era could handle. I had a direct line to the White House and the Pentagon, the State Department and CIA. There were no excuses and the rule was "The phone does not ring twice!" It was a pretty exciting assignment for someone 27-30 years old at that time.

Jon
re: Should a childless employee trade off with someone for Christmas? en>fr fr>en
By SarahdncrPremium member Comments: 573, member since Wed Jul 29, 2009
On Wed Dec 25, 2013 02:33 PM
Edited by Sarahdncr (214611) on 2013-12-25 14:38:26
Edited by Sarahdncr (214611) on 2013-12-25 14:40:12
Edited by Sarahdncr (214611) on 2013-12-25 14:43:25
A very interesting situation indeed. I can only speak from my experience in the Forces (though it is 27 years worth of experience - and I am going to be retiring shortly) and from only how it has been done in the organizations I was assigned to. Also keep in mind that with the American Forces now, Political Correctness is very much the encouraged "In" thing.

So, in my experience, I being a single (and obviously childless) supervisor/leader, have always been "encouraged" and asked too many times to count by my superior's to be available to come in, be on telephone stand-by, or be physically present at work on holidays, or after normal duty hours, ect.- for that very reason -- I was a single person and in my leaderships mind I was easily available to cover for things, so that they could ensure the organization was doing everything it humanly could given high ops tempo's to make sure that those with families, and esp. young children could have the time off.

From talking to other either senior single or child-less couple Forces Members' this seems to be pretty much the common approach organizations follow and has been, by and large for the most part, this situation has always been something us senior "singles" have quietly been steaming over and putting up with all these years. Now don't get me wrong, I have always pitched in when it was needed, and have been more than willing, sometimes, to volunteer to cover if I had no other plans for a particular holiday, and of course, when deployed, all bets are off.

But I have IMOH always felt it wrong on senior leaderships part to just assume we singles were always o.k., and willing to go along with this situation when they would never inquire with us first about our personal feelings for it, before we were "voluntold" to help out.


So, personally I am not in favor of this, as I enjoy my time off to be with family/friends (or even enjoying quiet time at home alone by myself) on a holiday as much as the next person does, and if I have time off coming to me I want to be able use it as I like.
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