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Debates
New Arizona Discrimination Bill (karma: 2)  en>fr fr>en
By imadanseurPremium member Comments: 16602, member since Thu Dec 04, 2003
On Fri Feb 21, 2014 01:25 PM

I can't believe I live in this state at times. I really can't believe how many people's facebook pages are supporting this where I live. "DON'T TELL ME HOW TO DO BUSINESS AND WHO TO DO BUSINESS WITH...I HAVE RIGHTS". *bangs head on the wall*

I think this law just allows for discrimination, segregation, hate, and will alienate tourists to this state. I don't see how baking a cake for a gay couple is infringing on your religious freedom. You are still able to believe whatever you believe. You can go worship, you can do whatever you'd like...but where in the Bible does it say, "Thou shalt not make food, clothes, or rent a room to people they don't like or don't agree with...including gays, blacks, women, or non-believers". What did Jesus say about homosexuals...oh yeah he didn't address that. hmmmm

I realize private businesses already can refuse service to anyone...but is following standard Civil Rights Laws really too much to ask??

A similar law was just voted down my the Kansas state Senate and that included government workers not servicing gays. LOVELY...so you are at the VA and you have a doctor that won't help you. South Dakota (my former state which has gone crazy conservative in the years I've been gone) didn't pass a bill like this either (barely). Do people really want to go backwards? Why is it so scary to give people equal rights?

/rant

www.msnbc.com . . .

16 Replies to New Arizona Discrimination Bill

re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By slice Comments: 1247, member since Fri Oct 15, 2004
On Fri Feb 21, 2014 02:05 PM
You live in Arizona? For this, and many many many many more reasons, I offer my sincere condolences.

Comment #10173046 deleted
Removed by hummingbird (128773) on 2014-02-23 11:09:50 Double post.

re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By Tansey Comments: 2367, member since Fri Mar 27, 2009
On Fri Feb 21, 2014 06:06 PM
Edited by Tansey (209516) on 2014-02-21 18:11:19
Everything I've seen on Facebook or in the media vociferously opposes what's happening in Arizona. Admittedly I live in a blue state (Massachusetts) so that probably colors what I see. Sometimes the news out of other parts of the U.S. sounds like it couldn't possibly be from the same country I live in. This George Takei post is fairly typical of what I've seen on Facebook today: www.allegiancemusical.com . . .
Let's hope Gov. Brewer has the sense not to sign this mean-spirited and moronic bill.
re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill (karma: 2)  en>fr fr>en
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 11588, member since Thu Dec 16, 2004
On Sun Feb 23, 2014 04:06 AM
I'm just glad the crazy isn't coming from Florida for a change.
re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8686, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Tue Feb 25, 2014 09:36 AM
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2014-02-25 09:39:33
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2014-02-25 09:42:04
This doesn't even make sense from a business profit side of things. Racism and bigotry HURT a business because people are less likely to do business with an organization that believes in segregation. I hope that business owners smarten up and doesn't follow suit and basically drive their businesses into bankruptcy.

On the devils advocate side ( since this is a debate) I don't think that the government should tell business owners how to run things. I don't like the idea of the government intermingling with businesses, just like I don't like the idea of religion/government intermingling. ( Saying a prayer at public schools etc)
As a Libertarian, I can maybe support this for like a second, but then my emotions take over.

I can't even give a good devils advocate side of this, because it is so crazy to me. Dude, I am just mind blown at the stupidity of it all.
If anyone tried this is California, especially San Francisco there would literally be RIOTS over it. If word got out that a business refused to do business with a gay/lesbian person, I wouldn't be surprised if their windows got smashed and their place burned to the ground. Riots in Oakland/ San Francisco happened for a lot less then something like this.

There has been a lot of buzz about this on my Facebook, and I have only seen ONE person in favor of this. The hundreds of other Facebook friends I have , are quite vocal about this being so stupid. We make fun of Russia for their antigay laws, but this is happening under our noses in 2014!
re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 11588, member since Thu Dec 16, 2004
On Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:37 PM
Even as a libertarian/independent, I don't believe there is any justification for a business to discriminate. If you only want to serve a specific portion of the community, there are still PLENTY of other options. Individuals are still allowed to discriminate. My cousin is a wedding photographer on the weekends (one of the examples that keeps popping up). He can turn away any clients he wants. You could also start a private club. As we all know, golf/country clubs are famous for enforcing men-only and white-only policies. But when a municipality issues someone a business license, there is a (very reasonable IMO) assumption that the business will be open to the public. And still speaking as a libertarian, OF COURSE government can tell businesses what to do since those businesses are heavy users of government infrastructure and services. From a historical perspective, if the government didn't prevent discrimination, huge parts of the south would still be segregated. This country wasn't founded on the rights of corporations. It was founded on INDIVIDUAL rights. So either a company is open to the public or it's not. And if it's not, it needs to be classified as a private organization so the municipalities can plan accordingly.
re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 15030, member since Thu Feb 14, 2002
On Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:47 PM
Technically, the law is not unconstitutional because sexual orientation has not yet been identified as a protected class by the Supreme Court.

Doesn't make the law any less crazy, and yes, it should be a protected class, but as of right now, it's not as illegal as one would think.

My aunt posted an article supporting this bill on Facebook... ugh.
re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill en>fr fr>en
By Moonlitefairy06member has saluted, click to view salute photos Comments: 7153, member since Fri Apr 16, 2004
On Thu Feb 27, 2014 01:13 PM
I'm really glad that the governor vetoed it. As most people know on here I have worked in Republican politics. I didn't agree with this bill and I did not like my party being associated with it either. Seeing such an outcry from all sides and the governor siding with the people is a great step towards equality for all and an example for the entire country.
re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill en>fr fr>en
By BunHeadAlymember has saluted, click to view salute photos Comments: 233, member since Mon Apr 30, 2012
On Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:10 PM
slice wrote:

You live in Arizona? For this, and many many many many more reasons, I offer my sincere condolences.


I second Slice.

I refuse to go there on the grounds that I can get pulled over because I'm Mexican. Just another reason to avoid your state.
re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill en>fr fr>en
By ChristinePremium member Comments: 6686, member since Wed Feb 04, 2009
On Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:28 AM
Moonlitefairy06 wrote:

I'm really glad that the governor vetoed it. As most people know on here I have worked in Republican politics. I didn't agree with this bill and I did not like my party being associated with it either. Seeing such an outcry from all sides and the governor siding with the people is a great step towards equality for all and an example for the entire country.


MLF, thanks for reminding us of this.

Politics is messy business.

People be crazy.

But not all people.

I am so glad reason won out on this, and in an odd way, it is almost a good thing that this particular kind of crazy be exposed in the daylight. We often think the days of narrow minded bigotry are long gone, especially, as Tansey said, if you live in a more enlightened part of the world, We sometimes need to be reminded of it's existence and defend against it.

Keep On Dancing*
re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill en>fr fr>en
By Meganmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 12956, member since Wed Mar 17, 2004
On Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:14 PM
I admit up front that I have nothing intelligent to say about this. Just...'Murica, I guess. Sometimes I just get so sad about what a small group of people with disproportionately large influence can do to make a country that should be one of the most diverse and progressive in the world so freaking backward and embarrassing.
re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill en>fr fr>en
By imadanseurPremium member Comments: 16602, member since Thu Dec 04, 2003
On Fri Feb 28, 2014 04:57 PM
I refuse to go there on the grounds that I can get pulled over because I'm Mexican. Just another reason to avoid your state.


I hope you are joking...this isn't even true! Police can ask about immigration status if you are pulled over for another violation such as speeding etc. But they can't just stop you for being Mexican, black etc. Seriously, our state is backwards in some ways and gets a bad rap, but I used to date a Hispanic guy and 2 friends I regularly hang out with are Mexican and I've never heard either of them having any problems.

Now, my black friend driving in the richest area of Phoenix is another story...
re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill en>fr fr>en
By schuhplattlerPremium member Comments: 2995, member since Sat Dec 23, 2006
On Mon Mar 03, 2014 09:02 AM
Good news: Here is some help from an unexpected source:
NFL could pull Super Bowl if Arizona religious rights bill passes, and leave Arizona high and dry for 2015.
washingtonexaminer.com . . .
re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill en>fr fr>en
By slice Comments: 1247, member since Fri Oct 15, 2004
On Mon Mar 03, 2014 09:35 AM
imadanseur wrote:

I refuse to go there on the grounds that I can get pulled over because I'm Mexican. Just another reason to avoid your state.


I hope you are joking...this isn't even true! Police can ask about immigration status if you are pulled over for another violation such as speeding etc. But they can't just stop you for being Mexican, black etc. Seriously, our state is backwards in some ways and gets a bad rap, but I used to date a Hispanic guy and 2 friends I regularly hang out with are Mexican and I've never heard either of them having any problems.

Now, my black friend driving in the richest area of Phoenix is another story...


Yeah I mean, that's what's so sketchy about it. Technically, they can't pull you over for being [insert ethnicity here], but they can pull you over for something trivial that in all likelihood a white person would not get pulled over for (speed limit is 45, you're going 46... your wheels go 1/4 inch out of your lane, etc). My uncle lives in Arizona and is just about the most unassuming person, he has money but does not flaunt it (lives in a small house that's paid for, driving the same old rust bucket since forever), and has plenty a story to tell.

But that's hardly an Arizona problem. I live in Chicago and can say the profiling struggle is very real.

From an education perspective some of the curriculum changes I've heard going on in AZ (and TX) just makes me toes curl. Nope nope nope.
re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8686, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Mon Mar 03, 2014 09:39 AM
I've always wondered about the whole pulling over thing.

When I am on the freeway and someone is driving like a jackass, I try to figure out what they look like. The majority of the time, I can't tell if they are female, male, black, white, Asian, Hispanic until I actually speed up to pass them.

When a cop turns on his lights and sirens from behind, how are they able to tell the race of the person before pulling them over? Or are you implying that when they pull people over, they give harsher tickets depending in their race?
re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill en>fr fr>en
By slice Comments: 1247, member since Fri Oct 15, 2004
On Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:48 AM
YumYumDoughnut wrote:

I've always wondered about the whole pulling over thing.

When I am on the freeway and someone is driving like a jackass, I try to figure out what they look like. The majority of the time, I can't tell if they are female, male, black, white, Asian, Hispanic until I actually speed up to pass them.

When a cop turns on his lights and sirens from behind, how are they able to tell the race of the person before pulling them over? Or are you implying that when they pull people over, they give harsher tickets depending in their race?


Both really. For non-highway driving if someone doesn't have tinted windows and is driving in a neighborhood or place where the speed limit isn't going to be high (like the 45mph example), than you may not be able to tell someone's exact ethnicity but you can reasonably see if they're light/dark skinned. Hence why it isn't unusual for Black men driving nice cars to get pulled over for frivolous violations; this is mainly so that the officer can run the plates and determine if the vehicle could be stolen or not.
re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill en>fr fr>en
By BunHeadAlymember has saluted, click to view salute photos Comments: 233, member since Mon Apr 30, 2012
On Tue Mar 04, 2014 06:29 PM
imadanseur wrote:

I refuse to go there on the grounds that I can get pulled over because I'm Mexican. Just another reason to avoid your state.


I hope you are joking...this isn't even true! Police can ask about immigration status if you are pulled over for another violation such as speeding etc. But they can't just stop you for being black etc. Seriously, our state is backwards in some ways and gets a bad rap, but I used to date a Hispanic guy and 2 friends I regularly hang out with are Mexican and I've never heard either of them having any problems.

Now, my black friend driving in the richest area of Phoenix is another story...
.

Racial profiling is nothing new so I don't know why you're so shocked.

I have family that used to go there all the time and they would get pulled over for the dumbest 'reasons', like not being able to read the tags and ask to see their papers.

None of my white and Asian friends have gotten the same treatment when pulled over.
re: New Arizona Discrimination Bill (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By imadanseurPremium member Comments: 16602, member since Thu Dec 04, 2003
On Tue Mar 04, 2014 06:42 PM
I know all about racial profiling. We have alot of Mexicans here, and honestly if cops were stopping every Mexican just for being Mexican they wouldn't do anything else. Cops don't come out when you report people smoking pot in the park, or outside our house (which was right by the park.) They won't come to an accident unless there is $5,000 worth of damage, and if you get your car stolen you do a report over the phone.

I'm not doubting that racial profiling happens, or that people you know haven't experienced it. I dated a Mexican, I dated a guy that was highway patrolman, and my nephew works for ICE. I've lived here almost 20 years, and I don't think this happens as frequently as you think. We don't have money to send illegals back, and the police know that. Unless they are actually committing a crime, picking them up is discouraged because there is no money to solve that situation. INS could hit any restaurant, landscaping company, or car wash...but they don't because it is too costly.

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