Forum: Irish / Irish

CLRG Rule question: difference between 5.3.1 and 5.3.4? (karma: 1)
By GirlGeekPremium member
On Sun Dec 07, 2014 06:10 PM

Hi-

I'm trying to parse the practical distinction between these rules:

5.3.1
Any dancer, (solo or team) whom the adjudicator, or a person acting on his/her behalf, has in the previous two years taught or coached, either in person or by video or other means, other than at a workshop open to all classes and organized by An Coimisiún or by one of its subsidiary bodies. (see Rules 5.3.1 to 5.3.3)
NB: Where a dancer has transferred from the class of an adjudicator, due to a change of residence as permitted under existing CLRG rules, and therefore does not serve a six months retraining period, the adjudicator will be exempt from the this ruling.

5.3.4
Any dancer (solo or team) who the adjudicator himself/ herself has taught in the previous two years. This will
include dancers who may no longer being taught by the adjudicator for whatever reason. However, a dancer who
has transferred from the class of the adjudicator, and then subject to the six month suspension period, will be exempt from the above ruling, as in the interest of the child, and under the laws of natural justice, such dancer may not be
subject to two separate rules running consecutively.

As far as I can tell, they say more or less the same thing about an AD's former students, except that 5.3.1 has the NB for those who moved and 5.3.4 has the "only the restyling period, not the association" thing.

Thanks!

GirlGeek
(former student of an AD, who's moved this year...)

11 Replies to CLRG Rule question: difference between 5.3.1 and 5.3.4?

re: CLRG Rule question: difference between 5.3.1 and 5.3.4? (karma: 2)
By Realtreble
On Sun Dec 07, 2014 06:53 PM
Edited by Realtreble (146991) on 2014-12-07 18:55:51
Can you link to the document that has this text? Sometimes it is helpful to read everything in order to decode individual clauses.

Does anyone beside me suspect the CLRG has cloistered an 11th Century transcription Monk working out the language of some of these rules?
re: CLRG Rule question: difference between 5.3.1 and 5.3.4?
By StepdancerPremium member
On Sun Dec 07, 2014 08:31 PM
Realtreble wrote:

Does anyone beside me suspect the CLRG has cloistered an 11th Century transcription Monk working out the language of some of these rules?


Image hotlink - 'http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/lol-030.gif' So that's who that guy with the cowl and the quill was! Mystery solved.
re: CLRG Rule question: difference between 5.3.1 and 5.3.4?
By GirlGeekPremium member
On Sun Dec 07, 2014 09:33 PM
Realtreble wrote:

Can you link to the document that has this text? Sometimes it is helpful to read everything in order to decode individual clauses.

Does anyone beside me suspect the CLRG has cloistered an 11th Century transcription Monk working out the language of some of these rules?


CLRG rules are here: www.clrg.ie . . .

And, of course, in the case of translation differences between the Irish and English language versions, it's the Irish language version that counts.
re: CLRG Rule question: difference between 5.3.1 and 5.3.4?
By Realtreble
On Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:59 PM
Edited by Realtreble (146991) on 2014-12-07 23:02:41 eliminate code string
Correct me if I'm wrong, folks! OK, here goes:
5.3.4
Any dancer (solo or team) who the adjudicator himself/ herself has taught in the previous two years. This will include dancers who may no longer being taught by the adjudicator for whatever reason.

An AD cannot judge an ex-student for 2 years, whether that ex-student relocated, transferred, or retired and returned.

However, a dancer who has transferred from the class of the adjudicator, and then subject to the six month suspension period, will be exempt from the above ruling,

An exception to this rule is made if the student has sat the 6 month ban. In this case, the ex-student may be judged by a former teacher after the ban is served.

...as in the interest of the child, and under the laws of natural justice, such dancer may not be subject to two separate rules running consecutively.

It would be unfair to a dancer to expect him/her to sit a 6 month ban and then be excluded from any competition the ex-TC happens to judge for an additional 18 months.

5.3.1
Any dancer, (solo or team) whom the adjudicator, or a person acting on his/her behalf, has in the previous two years taught or coached, either in person or by video or other means, other than at a workshop open to all classes and organized by An Coimisiún or by one of its subsidiary bodies. (see Rules 5.3.1 to 5.3.3)

This provision extends the AD limitation beyond ex-TC/ADs to assistants, workshop leaders (even if the workshop leader was present only via video, computer link/Skype, etc.) and camp or other training environment leaders who haven't received the CLRG's dispensation.

NB: Where a dancer has transferred from the class of an adjudicator, due to a change of residence as permitted under existing CLRG rules, and therefore does not serve a six months retraining period, the adjudicator will be exempt from the this ruling.

Make special note: Dancers who have moved their residence a significant distance resulting in a required change of schools (because that distance would create an unreasonable hardship) are not required to serve a six month ban and the ex-TC/AD/workshop/camp leader/trainer have no limits regarding adjudicating this ex-student.


The primary difference between the two clauses is the extension of the association/relationship between an ex-student and TC to include not only the previous TC, but also the ancillary personnel who may have been used in the training environment. Relocating a significant distance or sitting a 6 month ban or waiting two years eliminates the association between the dancer and all others employed at the previous school. I hope this makes sense. If you are qualified for an important competition which will be adjudicated by an ex-TC or workshop leader, let you current TC know. He/she may want to contact the regional powers-that-be just to confirm your eligibility.

Good luck, especially if you have the go-ahead for that big competition!
re: CLRG Rule question: difference between 5.3.1 and 5.3.4?
By Realtreble
On Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:20 AM
GirlGeek wrote:


And, of course, in the case of translation differences between the Irish and English language versions, it's the Irish language version that counts.


Of course, but the ancient Latin translation written in calligraphy on vellum trumps all other versions!
re: CLRG Rule question: difference between 5.3.1 and 5.3.4?
By califeisgirl
On Mon Dec 08, 2014 04:47 PM
I'm pretty sure the rules are written by the same person who writes the ceili book
re: CLRG Rule question: difference between 5.3.1 and 5.3.4?
By Dancer456
On Mon Dec 08, 2014 05:22 PM
The way I always understood it was that if you transferred and served a 6 month ban you can be adjudicated by your former teacher as soon as you start competing again. If a previous teacher is no longer teaching you for reasons other than a transfer that requires a 6 month ban, such as teacher leaving the school, the teacher cannot adjudicate you for two years after they have stopped teaching you.
re: CLRG Rule question: difference between 5.3.1 and 5.3.4?
By Realtreble
On Mon Dec 08, 2014 06:14 PM
Dancer456 wrote:

The way I always understood it was that if you transferred and served a 6 month ban you can be adjudicated by your former teacher as soon as you start competing again. If a previous teacher is no longer teaching you for reasons other than a transfer that requires a 6 month ban, such as teacher leaving the school, the teacher cannot adjudicate you for two years after they have stopped teaching you.


Did you find that information in 5.3.1 or 5.3.4 and I missed it or is it in another clause the OP didn't ask about?
re: CLRG Rule question: difference between 5.3.1 and 5.3.4?
By GirlGeekPremium member
On Mon Dec 08, 2014 06:34 PM
califeisgirl wrote:

I'm pretty sure the rules are written by the same person who writes the ceili book


The old one, certainly. Has anyone checked out the new one yet? I'm sorely tempted...

GG
(who's checking with her TC about stuff this week. I'm just fascinated about how things work, and this set of rules is particularly arcane.)
re: CLRG Rule question: difference between 5.3.1 and 5.3.4?
By Hop_123member has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Mon Dec 08, 2014 07:13 PM
I know my school closed and my old TC/ADCRG is not allowed to judge us for two years
re: CLRG Rule question: difference between 5.3.1 and 5.3.4?
By Dancer456
On Tue Dec 09, 2014 04:47 AM
That's my interpretation of the two rules in the original post.

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