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Ballet - Beginners
new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By quzzaq Comments: 13, member since Sun Aug 14, 2016
On Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:11 AM
Edited by quzzaq (277509) on 2016-08-14 10:24:18

Hi im a 28, and im a MtF transgender, i havent done ballet in my life and now that im starting to transicion i want to do some of the things i couldnt do when i was little cause i wasnt allowed, so i got 2 issues:

1) i dont pass yet so im not sure what would be the reaction of the owner/teacher if i go an ask for being enrolled has a girl instead of a boy, should i tell her beforehand?-

2)i checked and the girls dress code is pink thights, black camisole leotard and pink dance slippers, since im a "new girl" i havent weared a leotard before so i dont know how to know my size and i dont want to be kick out of a dance store or worst they may call the police (in the country i live transgender people are not very accepted), im weight 123 pounds, height 5.1 feets, can someone help me with sizing?

27 Replies to new girl, new in ballet some help plz.

re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By quzzaq Comments: 13, member since Sun Aug 14, 2016
On Sun Aug 14, 2016 09:44 PM
so hard to get a little help q_q
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By MeaMSBMD Comments: 121, member since Tue May 21, 2013
On Mon Aug 15, 2016 07:15 AM
Hi! It's awesome that you want to do ballet! I want to share with you this link: transballetboy.blogspot.com . . . is a blog about a FtM transgender person's experiences in ballet class. He hasn't posted in a while, which is a little upsetting, because I was interested in his journey, and he's a younger person than you, but it may help you to read. If you are taking adult ballet classes, the dress code is usually a little less strict than children's classes. Based on your height and weight, you would wear a size adult small or extra small leotard in most brands. There's also usually a size chart, which you can use to determine your size. I would recommend ordering online, from a site like discountdance.com or grishkoshop.com (which has free worldwide shipping) if you're unsure or uncomfortable going to a store. Because you're biologically male, you should also probably get a dance belt. If I were you, especially because, as you said, transgender people are generally not accepted in your country, I would inform the teacher/director of your situation beforehand, and ask her if she has any advice (she may suggest that you wear black shorts or something over your leotard, or she may suggest that you introduce yourself to the other people in your class prior to the class). Good luck!!
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By quzzaq Comments: 13, member since Sun Aug 14, 2016
On Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:24 AM
can you please explain to me whats the proppose of the dancebelt? readed somewhere that its proppose is to be like a "push up bra", but for mens thing so it make it look bigger, its that true?, in that case, the teacher/ classmates wouldnt be offended if I enroll has a girl and then I appear in the womens uniform with a notable "package" on plain sight?

dont have a big "thing" but is noticeable under thigh clothes

One of the bigger fears i have for class it that since im just starting transition my libido still normal, so what if i got an unwanted erection?, the teacher/classmates may think im a pervert

i readed the blog you mentioned, its very good, but unfortunately since hes a transmen he faced opposite problems, he wanted a "package" he didnt wanted his breast, i hate my "package" for me he can banish i dont care, and in the breast topic i would be very happy to have breast atleast a A-b cup

And please excuse my english i know its not very good.
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By MeaMSBMD Comments: 121, member since Tue May 21, 2013
On Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:28 PM
The dance belt is a support undergarment. It wouldn't make your "package" look bigger, it just keeps everything in place, and it would be absolutely required of any person over the age of like 10 with a package. Without it, you're likely to be very uncomfortable and it would look obscene. You can get dance belts that are padded, but obviously that's not what you would want. The dance belt would hide and/or flatten the look under your tights.
I know the blog poster's FtM, but I thought the posts about communicating with the teachers and other classmates would help you out.
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By quzzaq Comments: 13, member since Sun Aug 14, 2016
On Mon Aug 15, 2016 04:05 PM
yeah it is about communicating but i didnt know the dance belt rule, when u told me i searched in the web and more questions appeared, im sorry, it wasnt on proppose. well the guy in the blog just presented himself in the studio dressed like the guy he is, and is fine, FtM are more accepted than MtF, cause FtM dont have a "package", but that is another topic, anyway the blog was helpful the classmates part was very useful, and im grateful to you, u were the only person that helped me here.
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By Storm_Trouper Comments: 808, member since Mon May 21, 2012
On Mon Aug 15, 2016 09:56 PM
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-15 22:02:07
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-15 22:05:43
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-15 22:07:57
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-15 22:09:02
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-15 22:14:38
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-15 22:16:58
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-15 22:21:59
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-15 22:25:06
Here's an article about a MTF dancer.

www.elleuk.com . . .

Conventionally, traditional ballet can be very binary, particularly at the beginning stages before becoming a professional. The dress code or approach to costuming has thus been, historically, binary as well. But who is to say that dressing MUST continue to be binary?! Think outside the box or conventional so-called 'wisdom'; shift the studio costuming paradigm because the world's a'changin'. Consider a 3rd dress option, apart from the conventional 'travesti' approach to cross dressing, as follows:

A costuming option that I have never heard discussed before is wearing the standard male class wear components (of tights over short sleeved leotard over dance belt, black or white shoes) but in the standard cis female color scheme: pink shoes, ballet pink or white (thick) tights over whatever color of sleeved leotard matches that of the prescribed cis female class uniform leotard. This would represent or symbolize a cross or hybrid approach to dressing: male-style class wear that is highly (stereotypically or traditionally or arbitrarily) feminized. Being dressed this way would not be 'dressed up like a boy"! This is analogous to a cis male dancing in pointe shoes and dying his shoes black. Perhaps a hybrid dressing approach constitutes a pragmatic compromise, which some will favor and others disdain.

Hair could be grown long and worn in a bun as for typical ballet female presentation.

Gender-specific dance wear composition and color schemes are mostly socially constructed along with a few practical considerations, for example undergarments better suited to anatomical comfort and support factors (which are physiologically not socially determined). When and if physiological factors alter for an individual, then so too can the approach to dressing be adapted.
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By Storm_Trouper Comments: 808, member since Mon May 21, 2012
On Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:12 PM
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-15 22:13:14
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-15 22:41:03
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-15 22:43:12
Swedish-Austrailian MTF ballet dancer article:

www.dailymail.co.uk . . .
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By quzzaq Comments: 13, member since Sun Aug 14, 2016
On Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:01 AM
Edited by quzzaq (277509) on 2016-08-16 00:16:19
wow the color change of the clothes is a great idea,i think im gonna proppose it to the studio owner since i already made the appointment with her, wow is surprising that no one had this idea before, i can by example wear this setting in to out:
dancebelt
thick black thights
basic black short sleeved women leotard
black slippers
that way i can be discret and confortable, what do you think? u have some crazy but great ideas, i could hug you right now (hope that thought dosent make u unconfortable )

I think that pink thights over black leotard wouldnt be allowed since in the facebook photos all the girls have his thights under and i readed here that is just a trend and a bad taste one, i dont know if theres a real difference besides looks.

I checked the links and is sad that sophie had such a hard time, well im not planning in going pro and im way too old for that anyway, just want to learn the more i can
The parents part of julia is very sad too, i understand what she lived since i hear my father call freaks to transgender people too.
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By Storm_Trouper Comments: 808, member since Mon May 21, 2012
On Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:35 AM
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-16 12:05:15
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-16 12:07:16
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-16 12:09:46
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-16 12:33:08
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-16 12:40:32
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-16 12:44:28
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-16 12:45:49
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-16 12:58:20
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-16 13:01:27
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-16 13:04:02
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-16 13:07:14
I wish you every success and courage. Pursuing ballet (recreationally) can have its triumphs and its disappointments.

If you google gaff, this is an item of apparel familar to the non surgically transitioned M2F transgender community wishing to 'pass', is my understanding. I don't know if wearing a gaff device is practical for physical activities such as ballet, but perhaps other readers of DDN might be knowledgable and be able to weigh in with their opinions and personal experience.

For some (additional) Australian perspective and insights, here's a thoughtful article from last September (of 2015) regarding mothers of M2F and F2M children adapting undergarments.

www.news.com.au . . .

There's those funny scenes from the movie Crocadile Dundee where Aussie protagonist Mick learns about gender bending. So some folks Down Under seem to hold what might be characterized as progressive views towards gender expression and presentation, as the two articles I cited bring to light.

Another approach or paradigm shift for routine studio dress code that is rarely if ever considered or discussed could be unisex or gender neutral costuming for both girls and boys. (#BalletHeresy) They could for example all wear identical tights over leotards in terms of colors, with the appropriate choice of functional undergarments, and all wear the same color of shoes; anyone with long hair has to wear it secured adequately.

And those optng to learn to dance female-specific roles can don practice tutus, pointe shoes etc. as appropriate to the role being played. Cis females could even adopt cis male roles and do jumps and lifts if they consent and are ready, willing and able (emotionally mature). This is for recreation pursuit after all. The typical (archaic) binary would be blurred, blended or erased within the studio, as is sometimes the case in modern and contemporary dance genres. [Such an approach would probably fly in the face of 'pink princess / ballerina' culture so might not be a profitable strategy for a studio owner intent on pleasing fee paying moms (and dads) of little wannabe princesses, i.e. customer femand and client satisfaction. On the other hand, we read more today about parents who either let their kids be and express whatever gender(s) they want, or else try to raise their offspring to be gender blind / non discriminate.]

[Aside: I know of at least one private co-ed non-boarding school whose dress code now includes (allows) girls wearing grey trousers with school blazer jacket, white shirt and tie. The clothes are all cut for the female form and figure but are otherwise identical to the cis boys uniform specification. Funny thing happened: when the change was announced, none of the girls in the older grades of middle school wanted to wear that option or buy the 'pants'. What happened was the youngest girls in the lower grades started adapting this 'new fashion' and as they kept moving up a grade every year, eventually the kit was adopted throughout the entire run of grades.

Meanwhile in July of 2016 a UK school forbade its boys from wearing gym uniform shorts when the temperature soared, yet allowed the girls to wear skirts. So in protest some of the boys showed up wearing uniform skirts the next day. But I digress.)

As for your own costume proposal, you might also want to consider a black short sleeve leotard in your size that is of a mens cut, constructed for a male torso; for depending on your build it might fit you better, it all depends.

Re: hugs... Quite often they can do an awful lot of good IMHO and they are FREE! The world could probably use a lot more of them in general.

Comment #10241839 deleted
Removed by hummingbird (128773) on 2016-08-16 16:17:30 Double post.

re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By quzzaq Comments: 13, member since Sun Aug 14, 2016
On Tue Aug 16, 2016 02:16 PM
Edited by quzzaq (277509) on 2016-08-16 14:19:52
I agree with you i think that ballet should be unisex, that would be better for the art and the people who practice it, and it would help to disappear gender bias and discrimination of ballet dancers.
Here most ballet studios have an stric dress code because not many people practice ballet and they need to profit from his schools is understable,so they force people to buy the uniform from them, by example studio i plan to go, leotard has a double spaguetti straps but crossed in the back, with the studio logo in the right breast, you have 1 month to buy all.
and to be honest i would love to have that one, since give me some benefits:
more easy to blend in
it gaves the sensation of equality
cheapper (14.42 us vs 29.78 us)

but anyway fit is fit and ballet is a sport and i need the clothes to fit, so im gona talk to the owner to give me advice in apropiate clothes for my situacion, im thin and small so is more easy to find clothes and shoes than other people.
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By luv2plie Comments: 1904, member since Wed Jul 16, 2003
On Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:10 AM
Hi : welcome to the ballet world!

I know a MTF ballet dancer and she wears pink tights, a dance belt, black leotard and pink ballet shoes. She told the teacher in the beginning and everyone was accepting her as a female student from day one. She is doing well in ballet classes.

Keep us posted and I wish you the best:)

go for it. Ballet is very rewarding.
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By Storm_Trouper Comments: 808, member since Mon May 21, 2012
On Sat Aug 20, 2016 03:50 PM
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-20 15:59:35
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-20 16:09:39
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-20 16:11:59
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-20 16:17:07
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-20 16:19:08
quzzaq wrote:

wow the color change of the clothes is a great idea. I think I'm gonna propose it to the studio owner since I already made the appointment with her. Wow it's surprising that no one had this idea before. I can by example wear this setting in to out: dancebelt, thick black thights, basic black short sleeved women leotard, black slippers. That way i can be discrete and comfortable, what do you think? I think that pink thights over a black leotard wouldn't be allowed since in the facebook photos all the girls have their thights under.


You asked for what I think.

I think that wearing black tights with black shoes is more typical (though not exclusively) of a cis male student presentation. Pink tights and shoes would be more conformal with a typical cis female student presentation. So perhaps you would want to give consideration to what aspects are the most important to you with respect to how you would ideally like to present yourself given your current state of physical transition. The chosen color is symbolic or emblematic based on social convention. (Male students less commonly do wear other colors besides black including blue, grey and white; however, pink seems to be reserved for girls, exclusively.). Once you determine how you would like to present yourself, that can guide you in your choice of color scheme I suppose.

I also think that advancing a novel, third option for how one can present oneself in a ballet class setting has nothing to do with facebook.

If you think you would like to appear atypical of the binary costume norm for ballet, then probably it would be best for you to discuss your issue # 1) with the studio or school head when you approach them to potentially enroll. You don't indicate how strict or relaxed the school dress code is for new students in their 20s. Classes for late starting adults tend to have more flexible dress policies.
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By quzzaq Comments: 13, member since Sun Aug 14, 2016
On Sat Aug 20, 2016 04:00 PM
well, the real problem is not what i want, if only my opinion mattered i would go full female color/clothes, but i have to take in consideration the studio rules and the other classmates, has i already said, i dont want to make anyone unconfortable with me there, so im gonna wait to meet with the owner/teacher and we will agree something to keep everyone happy, if she tells me i have to go fully like a male im gona decline the classes and seach for another studio or I'll stay with the desire :/
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By Storm_Trouper Comments: 808, member since Mon May 21, 2012
On Sat Aug 20, 2016 04:28 PM
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-20 16:31:18
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-20 16:33:44
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-20 16:34:21
quzzaq wrote:

well, the real problem is not what i want, if only my opinion mattered i would go full female color/clothes, but i have to take in consideration the studio rules and the other classmates, has i already said, i dont want to make anyone unconfortable with me there, so im gonna wait to meet with the owner/teacher and we will agree something to keep everyone happy, if she tells me i have to go fully like a male im gona decline the classes and seach for another studio or I'll stay with the desire :/


Your 'all black' proposal that you outlined above differs from a 'fully like a male' typical look in only one respect: a black top is substituted for a white one. (Such an outfit would be similar to wearing a black unitard, color-wise.) This could be a good solution for all concerned, just as it's possible that a third option might also be acceptable. There's only one way to find out.
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By quzzaq Comments: 13, member since Sun Aug 14, 2016
On Sat Aug 20, 2016 04:47 PM
well i think you told me about a stage to stage change, and i thought that would be a good start for a first day, i could change the tights for pink ones in the 2nd day, pink slippers in the 3rd until i go fully female by example.
if i could i would go fully female since day 1, but the true is that the only way to know is to talk to the owner/teacher, i have an appointment for september, im gonna wait to talk with her and see what she propposes, i may get lucky and able to go full female since day one, or maybe got kick off the studio i dont know, i have to wait.

well in facebook i saw photos of the girls in the studio taking classes if nobody wears tights over leotard most probably is not allowed, is not a statement is an observation and a probability only.

Here since the studios dont profit enough with the classes they force people to buy the dance apparel from them so they have an stric dress code even for 20+ people, everyone has to pay his uniform and wear it to class.
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By Storm_Trouper Comments: 808, member since Mon May 21, 2012
On Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:51 PM
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-08-20 23:09:42
Can you please help clarify a puzzling inconsistency in this thread?

Initially in your OP, you expressed concern over going into a dance store not knowing your size having never bought and worn dance wear before. (Usually, most clothing stores are able to figure out if they have the item a shopper desires in the appropriate size. They have size charts, measuring tapes and practiced eyes and trial spaces. But I digress.)

But then you went on to explain that it's customary where you live for students' dance wear to be supplied directly from the dance studio or school (rather than from a dance wear store or shop.)

If for some reason it was to come down to your having to source your class uniform items from a dance wear store rather than from the school and you were to have concerns over going shopping, maybe it would be possible for someone from the school to accompany, assist and support you. Meaning that, sometimes teachers go with their students to a store when they are shopping for properly fitting pointe shoes.

Let us know how things turn out for you in September, hopefully well the first time.
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By quzzaq Comments: 13, member since Sun Aug 14, 2016
On Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:26 PM
Theres no inconsistency, at the beginning all i knew was the studios dress code, but you guys told me to ask if it was mandatory for adults and i called, and then the owners told me that i have to buy it from the studio and is mandatory all the studios i called told me the same.

In the beginning my concern wasnt going to the store without knowing my size, it was going to the store because where i live transgender arent very accepted etc, by that time i didnt know "the buy it here rule"

This thread didnt happen in a day, it started 14 today is 20, its been days, and i did research, called the studios, and people gave me a lot of info and help, and im grateful to everyone who helped me.

Has i already said my english is not very good so, that may have caused a confusion.
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By quzzaq Comments: 13, member since Sun Aug 14, 2016
On Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:07 AM
Hi i just want to make a little update in case someone care, i went to both dance schools and one rejected me totally but the other one was very welcomy and i enrolled, so this week is my first class has a girl, wish me luck.
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By luv2plie Comments: 1904, member since Wed Jul 16, 2003
On Mon Sep 05, 2016 09:09 PM
Good luck and have fun. Please keep us posted on your ballet classes.

Keep on dancing:)
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By Storm_Trouper Comments: 808, member since Mon May 21, 2012
On Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:42 AM
Edited by Storm_Trouper (249942) on 2016-09-08 10:47:30
Hey, that sounds great :)
Merde!
If you are comfortable sharing and not offended by my asking, can you let us know in which country or region of the world you are studying? I think it takes much courage and strength to challenge established ideas and attitudes.
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By quzzaq Comments: 13, member since Sun Aug 14, 2016
On Fri Sep 09, 2016 05:18 PM
Im North American, Mexico.
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By CinderEmma Comments: 135, member since Mon Sep 05, 2016
On Tue Sep 13, 2016 01:43 PM
First of all, I think it is very brave of you to share your story with us, and I would definately contact your teacher beforehand.

In terms of the leotards, I would probably guess you as a medium, but I could be way off. Different leotard brands have different sizing dimensions, and female leotard manufacturers usually take into account that their customers have a large bust and wide hips (which you probably won't if you were born a male).

As for the dance belt, I would (if I were born a male, that is) wear it, not just for modesty or dress code purposes, but for protection. I've heard that getting kicked in the groin by a stray foot from another dancer won't feel too nice if you aren't wearing a dance belt.

Oh, and by the way, you can also probably wear a short skirt to hide your "package" if you wish to pass yourself off as a female. And by the way, pink tights are my favorite color! If you want to wear pink tights, then that's up to you and the dress code (in my opinion).
re: new girl, new in ballet some help plz.
By quzzaq Comments: 13, member since Sun Aug 14, 2016
On Wed Sep 14, 2016 04:25 PM
You got it right Emma, im wearing a size medium in girls leotard, it fits very good, and yes im wearing the dance belt, not ideal, i wish i could have SRS soon so i can say goodbye to it.
i cant wear a skirt, skirts arent allowed to anyone, and i love pink thights too.
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