Forum: General / Hip Hop / Hip Hop

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By footwork
On Sun Sep 04, 2005 03:04 PM
Edited by footwork (23139) on 2005-09-04 15:05:09
Edited by footwork (23139) on 2005-09-04 15:05:49
Edited by footwork (23139) on 2005-09-04 15:07:40
Sorry if I spelled your name wrong in the subject. But, you asked how important is history?? It's very important, because, for one things, it helps you understand what people before you have done (mistakes and triumphs). Then, this helps you not repeat the bad things, but, take the good things, and evolve them. WITHOUT history, you could just be running around in a vicious circle (especially in dance STYLES!!).
As far how to decipher what is good history or not?? This can be a big problem, especially in dances that are talked about on this forum (hip-hop, poppin,etc..), because, there are no books, barely any OLD footage released, and no lectures by these people (barely!!). So, I can understand the hesitation. But, what is out there, the video footages, some of the first MCs recorded, and many other examples of great archives, of people that are STILL AROUND!! Now, your job (if you are interested!), is to go look for this people, and ask questions (especially because you are not from this era where these cultures have began!!).
Asking and interviewing people and seeing the similarities in what they say, can help with knowing what is true or false. Anyone that you would have to speak to in the era of dance (hip-hop), that would know something or would have at least seen something, would have to be in the mid 30s and over. To have honestly have SEEN something LIVE AND IN PERSON!! That's if you are trying to get history.
For dances older than hip-hop, spanning to 100 years and more back, then we are talking about studying many things: physiology, repetition, techniques, and all other kinds of information that comes with the " eye of experience " to be able to know what is true or false. GOOD LUCK!!


Brian Footwork GReen
re: Hip-hop Dance Styles: BASIC KNOWLEDGE
By melmusicmed
On Sun Sep 04, 2005 03:16 PM
On a dance trip with my school to New York, our dance teacher signed us up to see where Hip Hop originated. It was such an awesome experience and I recommend it to whoever wants to learn more about the culture.
re: Hip-hop Dance Styles: BASIC KNOWLEDGE
By meandonlyme
On Sun Sep 04, 2005 08:54 PM
Footwork, u spelled ma nick right.. haha.. thanks for the info..
re: Hip-hop Dance Styles: BASIC KNOWLEDGE
By Jordan5
On Mon Sep 05, 2005 01:45 PM
right on dude!!!
Need Serious Help
By dancer4jc
On Mon Sep 05, 2005 05:34 PM
Edited by dancer4jc (140408) on 2005-09-05 17:38:09 my email address was wrong
Thanx invent for the history lesson and much needed information BUT i'm a little lost out here! Can you please send all you know about HIP HOP. The C-walk, B-walk, whatever, just send me all you know about HIP HOP. If possible some step by step instructions on a few HIP HOP moves. You see we here in Fiji don't get valuable information bout HIP HOP like what i've just read. Please send to "" or" These are my email addresses! THANX HEAPS!!!! GKR DANCING OUT FOR NOW :]
By AnninhaBrasil
On Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:11 PM
wassup?!?! first of all ill introduce myself, my name is Anninha, im used to dance what we call around here Hip Hop freestyle..... Finally i found someone very seriously, Frank Ejara whos teaching me locking and popping.... and now there´s no way back, im addict to the funkstyles. Fortunatelly this year we could spend some days with Brian Green.... greeeeat days BTW..... U probably dont know what happens here, but ill try to explain..... imagine that the only information we had was the comercial thing..... that "video dance", and worse..... we tried to copy, so can u imagine what happened?!?!?! after Brian´s visit he told us some truths about the real thing, the social dances, and what freestyle really means..... now we´r trying to study and do the right thing.... so any information about hip hop freestyle would be great....

Buddha Stretch i saw your post, tanx.... but if u could send me further info would be great..... cuz we have this guy Frank, who teach us a lot about history, especially about the funkstyles, but we have no or little info about freestyle.....
re: Hip-hop Dance Styles: BASIC KNOWLEDGE
By Invent
On Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:20 AM
From what I hear, Frank Ejara is a good teacher and very knowledgeable!

It is good that you guys have him there in Brazil!!!
introducing myself
By ladysoulmusica
On Tue Sep 06, 2005 01:55 AM
my name is magdalena soul and i live in the san francisco bay area. I am a hip hop freestyle dancer and want to connect with other hip hop freestyle dancers across the country as well
re: Hip-hop Dance Styles: BASIC KNOWLEDGE
By AnninhaBrasil
On Tue Sep 06, 2005 08:30 AM
u´r right Invent.... he´s the only one here i trust......
re: Hip-hop Dance Styles: BASIC KNOWLEDGE
By iH0p
On Thu Sep 08, 2005 02:57 PM
hey brian footwork, no disrespect intended but i just wanted to know

how dangerous is it if you passed on knowledge that you gained yourself even though it's controversial knowledge and not everybody agrees with it but it's what you've found yourself and it's what you accept. why would it be so bad or senseless to post that on a dance forum? like you've said yourself, "As far how to decipher what is good history or not?? This can be a big problem, especially in dances that are talked about on this forum (hip-hop, poppin,etc..), because, THERE ARE NO BOOKS, BARELY ANY OLD FOOTAGE RELASED AND NO LECTURES BY THESE PEOPLE (barely!!). So, I can understand the hesitation. But, what is out there, the video footages, some of the first MCs recorded, and many other examples of great archives, of people that are STILL AROUND!! Now, your job (if you are interested!), is to go look for this people, and ask questions (especially because you are not from this era where these cultures have began!!)."

well if Invent had been talking to a lot of different people and doing his own research and this is what he came across and therefore posted it, why would that cause so much cringing? he may be younger than you and may therefore not have talked to as many people or have gone as far in his research, but i still don't understand why he has no right to post what he believes to be true without everyone getting on his case about trying to be the expert. researchers write a books on their research all the time even though not everyone agrees with it. i see nothing dangerous in that. it is everyone's responsibility to do their OWN research and decide for themselves what is true.

and this sticky was written a long time ago, i'm sure one's knowledge constantly changes through time and more research. but that does not prevent other people from continuing their own. this is just one source. it may not be complete, fully accurate, or up to date on new findings to you, but it's still just a source whether you agree with it or not. nobody is being forced to accept it.

like i've said in another post, if you refused to offer anything but the absolute certain (which in hip hop history, i see no certainties), then nobody would get very far in their research. by giving many different answers or speculations people can piece together what they have and see what makes sense.

and so while everyone is wondering why someone would post on something they don't know EVERYTHING about, it may not make sense to you why someone would do that and it may seem like they didn't think things through, but to me, it's just a matter of speaking one's opinions and sharing one's research. but everyone is welcome to add on to it, voice their opinion on it, and make suggestions.

on its all a matter of opinions. no matter what someone believes is fact there are ALWAYS people out there who will disagree and prove it wrong. but that's where all the fun is

with due respect,
By footwork
On Fri Sep 09, 2005 07:12 PM
Edited by footwork (23139) on 2005-09-09 19:28:43
There is no way your opinion can be disrespectful. No worries that. As far as my stance in not posting info, what I exactly mean, is that, I used to post alot of info before. But, all of the info, I know because I lived it. There is a difference, when it comes to the street dances of the 70s and up (aside from Locking!!). I have either met or seen the people back then, lived, and been in the culture since relatively the beginning. Around the time the names were formed and some before the names were even there. So, for me it's not research.Funny enough, when we do meet up, we actually laugh about how most of us didn't realize we have all seen each other before. Or how we know the same people and recognize the same history.
The research parts are the dance cultures before this time. But, I have studied and trained in those dances for over 25 years now, and still doing it.
My issue is that most people on this site and others, give out information that they are know where near clear on or have even tested out. Then, in my travels, I have seen people take info I have given or other OGs have given, and start to teach classes/lectures with this info. But, they can not demonstrate or connect this info. This is important to a DANCER and the audience, because they need this info in order to train themselves and others. Also, in my travels, I saw that when these people gave out the info, it was misunderstood and given out the wrong way. But, the children getting it, didn't understand that. And actually didn't want to believe something was the way it was even after meeting the person that their teacher got that info from was in there face. This is what misinformations can do. So, this changes the history, and pulls people from even caring what the dance or the culture is about. This is why dancers get paid so little in the industry and are treated very unfairly because no one truly cares about what they do and how it came about. Just entertain.
While instead of just taking minor info that is here. The person/persons, should get and OG to do a lecture/demo at their dance school, college, etc.. This is right and respectful. Though you can debate for years about styles and when they started, most OGs, in person can break it down and demonstrate it, EASILY!!
Over the internet, is not a tool for info to describe cultures that have been around 30 years and more. That is a lot of typing. Those years are longer than most peoples' lives that post on this board. So, imagine someone writing or talking about someone's life on these boards after a short post about a person. It would be crazy. This is almost like what goes on. Many OGs got into this culture or started it very young. I hope you understand.
Also, no one knows everything. Everything is pushing into the word PERFECTION. We as human beings are not perfect. So, it's impossible for us to know everything. That is why we trace things to hopefully find out. IN tracing something, you want to find people closer to the source rather than further away. For example if I wanted to know about the dance the HUSTLE!! Who should I talk to or truly listen to. Someone that researched the hustle through books (which there aren't that many!!), classes, and interviews for 5 years, or someone who was in the beginnig to the end Hustle era and into the next dance after the Hustle?? Most would go for the one and should go for the one that was there and stayed after. Because they saw that dance come and go and saw what was next and possibly and more indefinitely why it came and went. Does this make sense??


Brian Footwork Green
re: Hip-hop Dance Styles: BASIC KNOWLEDGE
By iH0p
On Fri Sep 09, 2005 08:38 PM
no i completely understand what you're saying. and i agree. and of course i believe we should give the OGs their due respect since they ARE the originators!

however, one thing that doesn't work (in my opinion) is that you guys are going to need to pass on all of that history since i mean you guys won't be around forever (er, i dont mean that to sound as bad as it does)... but the thing that doesn't work is.. how are you going to be able to educate future generations face to face without having some of us from today's generation help you out. and i think that's what invent tried to do. even though he may not have been there when it all started himself, he still talked to different OGs (in his research) and since not many OGs are willing to educate the masses online or through books or much else unless they have the time to be thorough enough... well that's why the stickies by invent were made.

and i know that posting up one short sticky may be a laughable attempt at covering 30 years of history... BUT this IS a dance forum that knows very little if not absolutely nothing at all about hip hop and its foundations... so while Invent was not exactly trying to be the expert and educate everyone at a comprehensive level... i think his goal was just to help those that say they have a passion for hip hop acknowledge the actual existence of a culture, rather than just see it as a fad that mass media created. i'm not sure if you've looked around much on this forum but A LOT of people have the wrong idea of what hip hop is. that isn't to say that hip hop isn't free to change and evolve, but without respecting its foundations, in my opinion, it'd be a great discredit to the hip hop culture and an insult to its originators. and without its foundations, it wouldn't be hip hop anyway... which is why invent got fed up and decided to take some action. i dont think he BSed it just to make it look like he knows more than everyone else... he was just tired of people mistaking popping for "booty popping" and he just really wanted to tell everyone about hip hop's foundations and to respect its originators. and all that information was what he was told and so really believed.

but if Invent's sticky was extremely off from reality, then it would be of great use if you made a sticky yourself, since it would be a primary source for people, but i mean you don't have to take too much of your time by writing a very detailed sticky.. it'd be really useful if you just gave us some of the BASIC KNOWLEDGE of hip hop... in my opinion, that really would be more useful than just stating repeatedly how horribly incorrect everyone else that attempted in vain to explain hip hop is since they wont have much to work with that way. and i know you won't be able to fit all of hip hop's history on an online post, but it'd be nice to give us all a place to start--just the basics so that we know that there's just a wee bit more to hip hop's culture than the chickenhead and grinding...

and once we get that down, we'll go explore on our own from there.


BTW- it's not that invent doesn't have respect enough to speak for himself, he's just off to Mn to visit a friend and has been really busy lately since he just moved back to Ca... and I'm interested myself in what everyone has been saying anyway.
By footwork
On Sat Sep 10, 2005 07:26 AM
Edited by footwork (23139) on 2005-09-10 07:27:40
Edited by footwork (23139) on 2005-09-10 07:34:25
As this may turn into one of those funny debates (that Stretch you just told me to stop being to nice about things!! WELL! HERE I GO BEING NICE!!LOL!! ON THE REAL STRETCH THANKS FOR WORDS AT THE HDC YESTERDAY!! AND SERGE YOU TOO!! Sometimes in the face of evil things it's hard to keep your composure. I am surprised I did!!).\

OK IHOP (sorry to get off track like that!! Much pay props to people!!),
Okay, Invent, as he has mentioned before has come to me for info. I am one of the OGs he has spoken to. As far as people getting fed up and coming out with info. I don't know how long you have been on these boards or other ones, but the info he put out there has been put on here plenty of times. Never on the board did I say he is BS. I said that other people I have seen in my travels are and have been giving out BS. All I mentioned to him was to study a little more. And I was just talking about Tap (which I did mention). So, I think you misunderstood quite a bit. This is the problem I am talking about. To be a teacher there has to be a point where you have to just know facts, and take the emotion out of it. There is alot of emotion behind your words that are misdirected. Hopefully you find the correct direction for all the emotion.
Also, as far as most OGs go, I know they are slow with getting certain things together like BOOKS, VIDEOS, etc.. Which I have mentioned that we all should do. And they are. Soon, you will see some things. But, also, most events where people can invite OGs; schools, parties, etc.. are not run by the young, they are run by people even older than us. Especially when you are talking about getting this info to the mass media. This is something you totally don't understand. But, that is another conversation.
But, understand, when it comes to info on the net. You can find too many things on various sites, that many OGs have posted and it has been ignored or misused:,,,,, and more underground sites. COMMERCIAL SITES hit:,, and many more. People barely listened. These sites were hit by me and other OGs. I hope you are getting my point. If not, let's not go back and forth with the same points. That is TEDIOUS for the hand, the reader, and takes to much space. Like Invent and many others that ask me questions privately, just email:


Brian Footwork Green
re: Hip-hop Dance Styles: BASIC KNOWLEDGE
By iH0p
On Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:34 AM
I promise you I've got much respect for what you and other OGs have done. And if I keep coming back and commenting or asking you questions on this thread, please do not take it as a sign of disrespect. Debate, in my opinion, is just healthy conversation with two different opinions with a lot of opportunity to learn, that's all. I don't mean to sound rude or emotional which I think is much more often mistaken online because you cannot hear one's tone of voice, but I can assure you I'm only trying to point out another side here... not pick a fight, especially with someone as experienced and knowledgable as you.

I know that you'd rather have me just email you rather than just go back and forth but... why should we keep a lesson or maybe really good information from anyone else who might want to stumble upon it. And I don't want to make this something personal.

But you're right, the information that Invent put up has been posted time and time again... however posts, if not replied to in a long time, move to the end of the list and eventually off of's "visible" archives which is why those stickies were made. I do not mean to sound emotional or sound like I'm fighting with you, because if you've shown respect towards me then I'll have nothing but respect for you.

Also, I didn't mean you said Invent is BS if that's where you think the emotion and misunderstanding is coming from... all that I meant to say was that he didn't just post things just to post them or to make it seem like he knows everything. I'm stating this because it may seem like he has no respect for the history and the culture but instead only wanted attention. But actually, what he wrote was really a product of 3 years of research from what other OG's (who all seem to have different opinions) might have said and something he felt he did think through. And even though in your opinion that is not enough to have an opinion, in my opinion, it is... especially if all that was intended was to give off very basic pieces of information just to throw out the idea that there is more to hip hop than what most people think. Once again, I don't mean to cause any offense to you or constantly repeat things I've said, but I do when it seems like they are not being paid attention to. I'm just giving reasoning behind the stickies because a couple of people lately have found offense in them, saying that they are not respectful to the history and the originators when in reality.. the reason for the stickies was ONLY to help keep an AWARENESS or acknowledgement, in the least,to the history and the originators. And while I am sorry that Invent's information is incorrect and his sources misused... I can't say that I am sorry he took the time out to make them with the hope that people would realize hip hop has a culture.. nor am I sorry for the sudden decrease in numbers of posts titled "what is poplocking".

but, I AM sorry I missed all the information other OGs have posted on here... if only they had been permantently stuck on's forum... And yes I have read what was on wiggles forum and others... But unlike's, those don't disappear.

And I am aware that you mentioned something about tap and African culture... but I was hoping you'd throw in just a little more.

By footwork
On Sat Sep 10, 2005 07:15 PM
As you said in one of your parargraphs, you believe in your opinion that three years of research is long enough to say something, and I don't, for cultures that have been going on for over 25 years plus. Debates that only go into an opinion is what i don't call information. So, I will leave the rest to your opinions; which I am sure you have a lot of. No disrespect at all. Keep doing what you're doing.


Brian Footwork Green
Let Hip Hop Evolve.....!
By LivingSoulDancemember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Wed Sep 21, 2005 01:02 PM
Edited by LivingSoulDance (110285) on 2005-09-21 13:16:24
I have seen Hip Hop that includes mime, theatrics, acrobatics and all kinds of stuff. Example: The movie, You Got Served

That not true Hip Hop?

Since I was not born in New York, my first introduction to Hip Hop came through the moves in the early 80's:

Breaking I & II

And now you have other movie like:
You Got Served

The makers of these moves introduce Hip Hop as a dance form to the rest of the world using all kinds of movement i.e. karate, ballet, jazz, magic tricks and much more.

Using Ballet along with Hip Hop in the movies seems to make Hip Hop an expectable dance form to the European culture.

But you are saying if you add this kind of movement in, it's not true Hip Hop?

But, doesn't your opinion put Hip Hop in a smaller box?

Putting dance forms in a box has always lead to the creation of other dance forms.

For Example:
Ballet dancers wanted to do something outside the box, so they kick off their toe shoes & started doing modern dance. It's still bases on Ballet.

Then, the ballet dancers wanted to shake their booties, so they created Jazz. It's still based on ballet.

You say we are polluting your culture & your art form.
I say Hip Hop is doing what it is supposed to do!

It's Evolving!

Just my opinion.
Don't hate me. :D
I still Love the Old G's.
We just gotta do a new thing.
Because, that how the ultimate G, GOD created us.

Hip-hop dance....???
By tiggerbrat7
On Fri Sep 23, 2005 02:31 PM
hey, I'm new here. I live in Fredericktown, Missouri (a small town) and I'm looking to learn hip-hop dance. I've read through the comments of the hip-hop culture and so on. It was a little confusing, with all the different opinions and all. I lived in Louisiana, I picked up a little techno (very little) and a few other moves. No one in my area (that I know of) actually knows any real hip-hop (new or old) dance moves.... and they definitely don't know any techno. I want to learn how to do techno and hip-hop as much as possible, and learn to combine the two into my own moves. I love dancing and watching others using hip-hop and such. I always have a song stuck in my head and just want to dance, but I want to be better. I would love to someday make a profession of dancing and choreography. If you can help me with anything (as to what music to find and/ or where I could find help with dance) please let me know. I have tried to find underground music that you don't always hear or see on TV, but it doesn't work out as well as I would like. If you have any good downloading sites or anything please let me know. It gets very boring around here and it would be nice to have something entertaining to do (that I really love doing).
re: Hip-hop Dance Styles: BASIC KNOWLEDGE
By iam_ur_latinboo
On Sun Sep 25, 2005 04:16 PM
well if you dont know how to dance and your friends know that you dont know how to dance then ask them if they can teach you or if you are to emberessed then watch some music videos like run it or we be burnin! Good Luck!
this is ladysoulmusica
By ladysoulmusica
On Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:53 AM
i found some real good dvds in hip hop, darrin's dance grooves and the groovaloos. one if for the east coast style the other seems like west coast freestyle. check it out.
I wanted to introduce myself
By ladysoulmusica
On Thu Sep 29, 2005 02:56 AM
Removed by imadanseur (79325) on 2005-10-20 12:11:06 we have a job section in which you should look if you are seeking a job.
> Magdalena Soul
> > (415) 882-1663 (home)
> (415) 571-5435 (cell)
> or
> (email)
> Career Objective: To teach hip hop freestyle
> dance.
> Experience:
> 2005 Juneteenth
> Celebration
> Just a Friend by
> Mario dance performance
> 2005 Art and Soul Festival
World Dance Stage

2005 Dance Mission Theatre
> Education

> 2005 City Ballet School

> 2005 Hip Hop Jazz Dance
> Class with Terry Perry
> 2005 Hip Hop Dance Session
> Dance Mission
> 2004- Hip Hop Dance
> 2005 Classes,
> Embarcadero YMCA,
> San Francisco
> 2005 Groovin with the
> Groovaloos (Learn
> the hip hop grooves)
> Volumes One and
> Two.
> 2005 Darrin Dance
> Grooves
> Volumes One and
> Two
> 2005 Rthym and Motion
> Hip Hop Jazz Class
> 2003 Hip Hop Dance Class
> City College San
> Francisco
> References available upon request
By aQua_
On Thu Oct 20, 2005 08:13 AM
thanks invent
you make me know more about hip hop :)
re: Hip-hop Dance Styles: BASIC KNOWLEDGE
By Mickii
On Sat Dec 10, 2005 07:22 AM
more knowledge i see
By dancingqueen19
On Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:26 AM
Thank you for writeing what you did. It was about time that someone spoke out. I am a 17 year old female and i want to have a profession in hip hop when I get out of college. But my parents and my aunt thinks that hip hop is disgusting, b/c of what they see in videos. I have been tying to get them to understand that that is completly different from what I want to do but they just don't get it. They also keep telling me that it's "trendy." I am going to send them your "Basic Knowledge" post so that they can finally understand where I'm coming from.
Thanks again and have a blessed day!
re: Hip-hop Dance Styles: BASIC KNOWLEDGE
By crazycutejessica
On Sun Jan 15, 2006 08:11 PM
Your tips and information on different types of hip hop are very imformative. This is a good place to look to find information. Thanks for all of the information to further my learning.
re: Hip-hop Dance Styles: BASIC KNOWLEDGE
By Welsh_Jo
On Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:56 AM
Hey Invent, good post there really informed me and opened my eyes to the world of Hip-Hop. I don't really know what style of dance I do now :S Anyway, I am going to research Hip-Hop now do you know of any good sites that could help me? Have a big open evening on Monday and got asked to put on a dance with a couple of girls today, so we have 5 days to make up something. Would really like it to be different.
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