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rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves (karma: 1)
By ShuleARuemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:28 PM
Made sticky by Theresa (28613) on 2005-12-16 19:12:49
Moved to Irish - Technique & Training by calypso (11968) on 2005-12-22 10:47:01 moved to appropriate forum

i'm sure there are a lot of people who need a little help on some of these types of things.. i've noticed a lot of posts about toestands and stuff like that so lets just make it simple.. if you have problems with something then tell us about it *explain what it is because all schools have different names for it* and if you have a way to help learn that move then post that too..

45 Replies to rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves

re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By wee_dancermember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:38 PM
Hi everyone!! iv got some advice:

ballet jumps (or entrechats etc.): this is when you jump, but instead of finishing it like a jump two three, you swap the front and back feet, then swap them back again really quickly in the air before you land. i've posted help on them here www.dance.net . . . (hope that works lol)

sorry i can't be more use, but i hope that helps! claire xxxx
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By ShuleARuemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:48 PM
I have some advice for clicks (i read this on another post and tried it out, it really worked) What i was doing this morning was sitting in a chair and just moving my legs back and forth *click click click* after you do that for a while really try them... start low and try to get five, when you get five then go a little higher, 5 more and go higher... and just keep drilling them

the REALLY important thing about clicks thought, TURN OUT YOUR FEET AND POINT YOUR TOES. once you do that, all it takes is drilling them A LOT
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By SammyAnnmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sat Dec 10, 2005 03:27 PM
An important thing to remember while learning a new move is that if you can do it once, you will probably be able to do it again. This happened to me with entrechats on my left foot. Once I did it once I could do it forever and ever!

Repetition is the key. Don't do it too many times in a row because you will get tired and it won't do anything, but do ten or twenty reps, take a minute to stretch. Do it again and again. A lot of times you can do some of this while making dinner or watching TV or something, especially if it isn't a leaping move but a jumping or a move that stays in place.
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By Louisemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:26 PM
Why did I read 'quivers', as 'gullivers'?

Louise
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves (karma: 1)
By EireLibramember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Dec 12, 2005 01:09 PM
For twists:
1. Keep as high on your toes as possible
2. Keep your legs together tightly
3. Try to pivot your toes from one overcrossed position to the next, quickly.
4. It's really all the turnout that makes you appear to be twisting... so at each point where your feet hit crossed... really push those ankles forward, really turn out from the hip.
5. Practice twists in little hoppy-in place movements (switch switch switch switch), then practice in long fluid movements, not hopping at all. Finding the happy medium between hoppy and smooth is important.
6. Repetition. Do them forwards, do them backwards... do five thousand in a row correctly. (well, maybe not 5,000, but a LOT)

Good luck! What are Rolls?
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By Maigh_EoPremium member
On Mon Dec 12, 2005 05:44 PM
^ hee hee five thousand!

i found out that by using the old in between two chair methods you can pretty much do anything as you have the aids beside you to take the weight off your feet. we call it leran, perfect and polish. learning the move in the air, then gently onto the floor, then learning the moves before and after it. then perfecting it before showing it to your teacher and then polishing it is finally putting it into the dance.

its worth doing if your learning something really hard, i was doing it the other day to practise drums on my toes (i always miss the second beat) and after about fifteen minutes i wa slike hey!! i can do it yassss! you feel so much better after!

good luck!! lol Ciara x
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By dancemaniac
On Mon Dec 12, 2005 07:37 PM
^^drums on your toes? How do you do that? Are you on toe with the back foot and drumming on the front? I'm all curious now haha
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By Saoirse
On Tue Dec 13, 2005 01:41 AM
Another key element to learning moves quickly is to concentrate not only on thinking, but on feeling. Where you can feel the move in your body is where your body will start remembering it.

Another thing is getting the tension right. Some moves will go repeatedly wrong if you tense up too hard. Flutters (entrechats) for example. Tense up too hard on the way back and you will fail to bring your foot to the front again. Relax and the feet will fly.

Also, learning more than two new moves at the same time doesn't really work. Your brain and muscles can't take too much input. It is better to focus on a few moves and perfect those than trying to learn ten at the same time and having your body's muscle memory go mad.

The best way to learn moves is by slowing them down. This can be done by using slower music, or holding on to chairs, or splitting the movement sequence up into little pieces that can be done slowly. Dancing slowly and deliberately, concentrating on the way the movement feels, will help your muscle memory develop faster, and will help avoid technical mistakes from the beginning.

But I have to contradict the original poster in one thing: A post about ALL SORTS of moves, mixed up tips and and full of confusing terminology is not as such "simpler" than specific questions asked on specific moves.
I'd much rather have someone ask ONE question in ONE post about ONE move and then get that answered properly. Otherwise I can spend half an hour going through this post looking for a move that I'm working on at the moment until I MAYBE find ONE tip on how to get it if I'm really lucky. Also, the amount of tips I (and I assume many others too) could give if asked to share all tips for all the moves existant in Irish dancing is just too much work to write down in one post that then probably won't get read by the majority of dancers because it looks too long to bother with! :)
So I think I'll stick with more specific movement questions.
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By GraniaPremium member
On Tue Dec 13, 2005 06:41 PM
What are quivers? And what are cross keys? I've seen them mentioned several times on the boards, but I'm not exactly sure what they are.
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By emaire
On Tue Dec 13, 2005 06:47 PM
I think quiver is the same as double hop (when you bring your foot to your knee twice) but you never know...
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By Maigh_EoPremium member
On Wed Dec 14, 2005 07:37 AM
dance maniac> a drum on your toes..let me see, how am i going to explain this! do a normal drum and then go up on to your toes and do a drum on them, making the same noise. they sound like fast trebles but look better. between the first toes and the second toe theres like a split second then three tappy toes after.

this is a seriously bad explination. are you going to the All Irelands? ill show you there lol

Ciara x
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By EireLibramember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:22 AM
Edited by EireLibra (72136) on 2005-12-14 10:23:56 clarifying
*To Psyche*

A Crosskey goes like this:
You do a little jump, landing on your tippy toes, crossed.
Next, swivel your heels out and put your heels on the ground, toes still touching/overlapping.
Then, in a last sharp movement, cross your feet again, but put the foot that was in front, behind. I've seen this with re-crossing on toes, and re-crossing with putting the heels down.
It usually takes up the same time as the 1-2-3 in a hop 1-2-3. So usually, I have a freeze or a pause.
{and turn point and cross-key down}

Explaining dance moves is so hard to do in writing... I wish I had a clip. But may I recommend Jean Butler's Masterclass video. She has the crosskey in her glossary section of the DVD. Quite nice.

Have fun!
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By Bec_member has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:59 PM
here goes an attempted explanation....

*double kick behind* (like a double cut to the front but its at the back)
...its easiest to learn ones off two feet rather than off one foot. i found them easiest to learn kicking the left foot behind. jump off two feet, right foot infront and feet crossed over, as soon as you lift, lift your back foot up then kick it down towards the floor(toes pointed to tense your leg) and it will bounce straight back up again, before you let it kick your bum kick it down again, then let it come up to kick your bum, at the same time as you kick your bum you land on your front foot. the rhythm of the back foot is de-de-dee.

you can also do these to the front...a double kick change. instead kick the front foot(right) and whip it to the back..your bum, whilst landing on the left.

im the worlds worst explainer but at least i tried!!!

how cool would it be if we could inclose video clips of what we were trying to help with, it would make things so much easier!

bec x
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By IrishDanceGurl52member has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Wed Dec 14, 2005 04:36 PM
My new reel step has a quiver only like, in the back. (hit-hit-hopeback) I need help with doing that and the same step also has a leap with m left leg but instead of putting my right leg on the ground i have to hop at my knee and spin around while in the air.... anyone have any advvice??


~Veronika
*prima*donna*
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By reel_in_firstmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Thu Dec 22, 2005 09:47 AM
^ Yeah I'm looking for some help on that move as well. In my school it's called a "whirly-bird" and it's like a double hop but in back of you. So you kick your bum twice basically. And in my step it's a turning whirly-bird. Tricky.
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves (karma: 1)
By Louisemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Dec 22, 2005 09:49 AM
^ Bec just explained that right above you.

Louise
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By ShyVioletmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Tue Dec 27, 2005 07:27 PM
^^Ciara, drums on toes sounds very intriguing - won't be at AIs but will be at Worlds, any possibility of a demonstration? :D

Cheers,
ShyViolet
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By I1Irishdancer
On Tue Dec 27, 2005 08:52 PM
^Oh, Ciara I have one of those in my hornpipe step. fun, ain't they? :D they look pretty neat
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By ShuleARuemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri Dec 30, 2005 07:23 PM
to PSYCHE
quivers are when u hop on your back foot and your other foot ummm quivers (lol) in the front.. that was a seriously bad explanation but i tried lol
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By runORdance
On Wed Jun 06, 2007 01:37 PM
to PSYCHE and ShuleARue:

my old school called them quivers and my new school calls them "up downs". does that help any? its where your back leg just stays straight and your front one does two "knees" in a row. yeah, it quivers, lol
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By TaraYeah
On Tue Aug 21, 2007 09:24 AM
At my school are quivers are where your back leg stays still and your front foot moves from side to side very fast.

And a better way to do rocks is if your hop backing into to place your back fott a little farther away from your front then slide your front foot close to your back and just rock. also doing it iwth two chairs helps
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By irishandballet
On Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:24 PM
Small Tip for Twists, Entrehat, ballet step etc...

For the part where people were talking about Entrechat, Twists etc... I do irish dancing and ballet. And I remember my ballet teacher teaching me how to do them, she said if you thought about jumping with you feet with the other leg it helped. So for example, you had the right leg in front and you jumped up, just slide the right foot quickly back as if you were just jumping in the air, then just change the leg as you land.

Hope that helps!

Lizzie
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By Jillian_Dance
On Sun Jun 29, 2008 03:57 PM
Can Anyone Help me with rocks I keep trying and trying but I keep falling back onto my flatfoot! Help! Jillian xxxx
re: rolls, rocks, quivers, twists, and toestands help for more complicated dance moves
By TheStoryTellermember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jun 29, 2008 04:46 PM
To Jillian:
Rocks are hard to get the first few times, what you have to do is go really high onto your toes, cross over, turn out, make sure you have the basic technique down.
Then you go get two chairs, place them shoulder width apart, and make sure they are comfortable to put a good part of your weight on. Stand as high on your toes as possible, put almost all of your weight on the chairs and then flip your front foot over, move your body to the side, so that your back foot is flat and your front one is rolled over. Go back to being high on your toes, and do this with the other foot. Repeat this over and over until you get the feeling for it then try putting a little less body weight on the chairs, and a little less, less and less each time and soon you will be able to do them without a chair!
Hope I explained this right, this is how my school teaches rocks and I've never been told it was wrong
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