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Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1? (karma: 1)
By Crazy_Clairemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:18 AM

Hi
We are doing about the Treaty of Versailles in History at the moment and theres all these arguements that were Germany treated fairly after the war. so I thought as a bit of fun we could have a debate about what we think. Heres the Story....(Well from what I know)

World War one - erm.. ArchDuke Franz Fernidnand was shot dead which caused the war... There were 2 sides of allies - The Triple Entente which was Britain, France and Russia and the Triple Alliance which was Germany,Italy,Austria, Hungary.

So this war went on for 4 years (1914-1918) America joined in April 1917 but didn't begin fighting until 1918 near the end of the war(a few months before it ended)

In Russia, they were ruled by the Tzar Nicholas the 2nd (I think) who got over thrown and was eventually Murdered, which lead to the Communists coming to power(They were Dictators(Sp) They went to Germany to ask if they could stop fighting and the Germans made a Peace Treaty and Russia were treated harshly - They lost 25% of their Land as well as others that I'm not sure of.
The War ends - Britain, France and the USA win as Germany surrendered.

And then theres the whole treaty of Versailles thing...

The USA - Think that Germany should be punished but not to the extent that the Germans would want revenge.

Britain - Want Germans punished but wish the Germans to recover from it.

France - Want the Germans destroyed, what them punished serverely so they won't recover.

From what I know most of France got destroyed during the war so they would obviously want revenge. Britain got hit by the bombs that Germany dropped from the Air Ships, ETC and the USA they joined the war late and none of the fighting took place over there.

The Treaty took 12 months (1 year) for Britain,France and the USA to agree on something.

This is what I remember from Year 9 - That the germans had to pay for all the damage, this meant they had a weak economy so food cost alot of money ETC.

Personally I don;t think Germany were treated fairly after the first world war - Not all of the damage was caused by them, yes they should have paid something towards reconstructing etc and the cost should have been split through all the countries involved - However, there is also the possibility that if Germany had to sort out the Treaty then they would have punished France, Britain and thed USA like they did to Russia. And Britain were already in debt as they owed the USA money from the war - Propaganda was also portraying the Germans to be bad. etc and during the Election in 1918 one man running for Prime Minister wanted to punish germany severly although Lloyd George remained as PM.

So do you think Germany were Treated Fairly??

xxClairexx

31 Replies to Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?

re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By amarathPremium member
On Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:40 PM
I think so.

I believe it was 3 times the amount of money required from them was loaned to them by England, and only England? More from other nations.

Germany was treated more than fairly; their economy was poorly managed, but they weren't exactly supposed to die.
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1? (karma: 1)
By tutulessmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:53 PM
Actually Germany didn't even really start the war. They just kind of told Austria to do whatever they felt would be best. And Austria thought it best to start a war.
And now guess where Hitler was born?
And who talks incomprehensible German?
Huh?

Yup, you guessed it, Austria! All their fault, I swear!

Did you know that no battle took place on German territory, by the way?

Most of the loaned money came from the US. They gave money to Germany under the condition that they could ask to get the money back whenever they wanted. So, of course, they asked for the money in 1929 after the Black Friday, but Germany was broke as well.
In the treaty of Versailles, the actual amount of costs was not set at all. The Treaty simply included a paragraph stating that Germany had to pay the costs for the war, the reparation costs. Hitler and other like-minded people called this paragraph the "paragraph of disgrace".
The actual amount of costs was set later. If the paying of the costs would not have stopped, Germany would have had to pay a high sum each year until 1987.

Personally, I don't think the treatment was fair, because in the end, treaties like the Versaille one always end up harming the innocent. In the end, the civilians would have needed to pay the state's debts and I hope we can all agree on the fact that war is never caused by civilians. Plus, there is no real justice or fairness in war, is there?

Love,
Tomato
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By dancin_til_death
On Fri Dec 16, 2005 03:52 AM
I'm sorry lets get this straight

we are trying to prove that war is fair??? sorry but life isn't fair, and war practically tops the list of unfairness in this world.

I think at the end of the war many of those countries just wanted to make the enemies suffer, I really don't think they'd forgive the ones who killed their loved ones even if they did apologise.
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1? (karma: 4)
By Eireannmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:27 AM
Ah, this makes my history major's heart tingle.

No, the treaty was not fair. It was, however, vengeful and short sighted. There was no way that a war devastated economy could have continued to pay those reparations without the massive inflation that Germany experienced. The hardships experienced by civilians and the sting of the War Guilt clause served to create a perfect environment for Hitler and the Nazis. Also, it had nothing to do with Germany 'starting the war'. It had to do with them losing it. Technically, Germany (or Austria, depending how you interpret the blank cheque) did no more than spark the powder keg that was the Balkan states. Then...well, the Great War.

Sorry, this would be more coherent if I weren't about to hop on a bus for my Medieval Legal History final.
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By AisAis
On Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:08 AM
And Austria thought it best to start a war.
And now guess where Hitler was born?


For a start, it's the first world war we're talking about here and Hitler was ww2.

As far as I understand, there had been alot of friction between the European countries and that was just an event that sparked it all off.

No, it was not entirely fair, but what reason did Britain have to make it fair? The winners decide what happens and they write the history, so the loosers have no say and aren't powerful enough to do anything about it. If you won a fight against someone, you wouldn't makesure they where treated entirely fairly.
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1? (karma: 1)
By tutulessmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:20 AM
^I'd never have geussed that Hitler was WW2! Like woah!
Screw fair treatment of losers, eh? Nuke Afghanistan I call!
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By AisAis
On Fri Dec 16, 2005 04:30 PM
/\

What?

From your post you sounded like part of the reason Austria should be blammed is because Hitler was from there.
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By Empress_Noodle
On Fri Dec 16, 2005 09:25 PM
Yup, you guessed it, Austria! All their fault, I swear!


Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia, because the Serbian Government refused to fulfil all of the ultimatum. This by itself couldn't have caused the whole world to go to war.

Germany's probably more to blame - though not completely, as the Treaty states - as she was more of an instigator than Austria-Hungary. Austria-Hungary was at war with Serbia and Serbia only, while Germany had declared war on Russia, invaded Luxembourg and Belgium (resulting in Britain declaring war on Germany) and declared war on France. At this time, and for days afterwards, Austria-Hungary was still only at war with Serbia. Prior to the war, Germany had also caused a lot of conflict and paranoia in Europe because of the Franco-Prussian war, the Seven Weeks' War and the arms race it held with Britain.


Anyway, about the Treaty of Versailles...

Personally, I believe that the Treaty was fair in some parts (the returning of Alsace-Lorraine to France, the limitations put upon the German army) but the fact that Germany had to repay the Entente £6,600 million (from memory - not exactly sure of the actual figure) was absolutely ridiculous.

I realise that the Treaty was done in order to ensure that Germany wouldn't be able to do something as large scale as WWI again any time soon, but it made the civilians suffer the consequences more than necessary, fueled hatred for the members of the Entente and pretty much allowed WWII to happen. (And I guess Tomato's Hitler/WWII post is sort of relevant - the Treaty of Versailles impoverished the German people, making them even more eager to hear of Hitler's promises for food and clothing and jobs.)
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By tutulessmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sat Dec 17, 2005 03:04 AM
the returning of Alsace-Lorraine to France


Actually, Alsace-Lorraine used to be German. It was Louis XIV who made it part of France by invading it. Only after the French Revolution in 1789, the German language was beginning to not be taught in schools etc.
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By Crazy_Clairemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sat Dec 17, 2005 04:16 AM
The war started as Franz Ferninand (the archduke) was shot, I think he was either bosnian or serbian.

xxClairexx
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By tutulessmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sat Dec 17, 2005 04:34 AM
Franz Ferdinand was the Austrian-Hungarian heir to the throne and was shot by a Serbian nationalist student group.
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By Crazy_Clairemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sat Dec 17, 2005 04:46 AM
^
lol
looks like i got the completely wrong nationality!

but if he was austrian how come they started war and how did France, Britain and Russia get involved?

also, regarding the world war 2 section someone posted about Hitler being Austrian, he didn't like the jews as when he was like poor and living there he didn't like how they had all the Big department stores,ETC (Or something like that!)

xxClairexx
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By tutulessmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sat Dec 17, 2005 05:03 AM
Edited by TomatoWench (88282) on 2005-12-17 05:08:02
Well, Germany and Austria-Hungary were allies. So when Austria-Hungary was involved in a war, Germany was as well.
The Russians had gathered their army right next to the German border (today's Poland was German-Russian back then) and Germany gave them an ultimatum to draw back their army. Russia didn't, so Germany declared war on Russia. Due to the triple entente, France and England were automatically involved.
Amd there you have your world war...

Concerning Austria declaring war on Serbia: There had been difficulties between Austria-Hungary and Serbia for quite some time, this was due to the Osmanian realm falling apart, the Russian panslawistic movement, and other stuff... After the death of the heir to the throne, Austria set an ultimatum for Serbia, demanding for more Austrian participation in the persecution of the murderers. Austria wasn't satisfied with the Serbian reply and declared war on Serbia, which, by the way, had gathered its army a few days prior already.
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By lee_britt
On Sun Dec 25, 2005 03:18 PM
"Did you know that no battle took place on German territory, by the way?"

Sorry, but you're very wrong there! No war took place on CURRENT German soil. However, during WWI Germany had occupied so much land which is no longer claimed by them. Most of the battles were fought on this land. This land is now owned by France, Switzerland, Russia, etc.

Also, I don't believe that the War was all to blame on Germany. Each country voluntarily decided to go to war (with a few exceptions due to treaties, etc.)

Also, there hasn't been much mention of Canada in this debate. I'd just like to point out that Canada was regarded as one of, if not the top armies by the end of the war.
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By SiyoNqobamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Dec 26, 2005 02:33 AM
Edited by SiyoNqoba (34789) on 2005-12-26 02:35:13
Edited by SiyoNqoba (34789) on 2005-12-26 02:35:38
From what I remember of "The Origins Of World War 2" in Year 11 (this was almost two years ago, mind you), the point was to cripple Germany so that it couldn't cause any more problems. Evidently, that didn't really work lol.

From what I remember of "The Origins Of World War 1" (which was this year), Germany was a manipulative country. Am I right in saying that Bismark went to Morroco and told them that they should be free from France and caused a lot of problems? Not to mention all the alliances and treaties he made with other countries. Bismark was a genius, and very good at what he did, but unfortunately it wasn't really used for betterment.

I dont think the Treaty of Versailles was fair to German civillians. And maybe Germany wasn't as much to blame as the Triple Entente said. There were many causes of the war, and Germany certainly wasn't in the centre of all of them.
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By tutulessmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Dec 26, 2005 12:28 PM
Bismarck was quite a bit of time before WW1. I don't think you can blame Bismarck and his politics at all for WW1. It was Wilhelm II who screwed it all up after firing Bismarck...
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By Katy_Dancemember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Mon Dec 26, 2005 03:15 PM
Edited by Katy_Dance (73933) on 2005-12-26 15:16:13
Hey

I think that Germany were treated rather harshley after WW1 and it was not only in the treaty of versailles. i mean it was only fair that germany paid reparations to france after all a lot of there country was ruined, however pacts such as the franco-soviet pact threatened the encirclement of Germany & frances lack of disarmament.Furthermore the invasion of the Rhur which was an industrial town in Germany caused further decline in Germanys already crumbling economy. althoug america did try to help germany out financialy with the Daws plan which was loans to pay France their reparations although these loans stopped after the wall street crash in 1929 which saw germany back at square one.

However can we only blame France? Didnt Britain also agree to all the perhaps too harsh clauses in the treaty of versailles? After WW1 the League of nations was set up as a place for international discussions and a means of avoiding war. So why were germany refused entry? Many germans viewed the league as a "club of victors" which i think is understandable.

However Germany wasnt entirly innocent herself. As she signed the treaty of locarno freely which agreed Germanys western borders with france. so why did she remilitarise the rhineland? or begin rebuilding her army and an airforce? this was a direct violation of the treaty of versailles.

Katy

p.s as for alsace and lorraine germany had made france sign this land over to her at the palace of versailles so frances decision to take germany back there to sign the treaty of versailles was almost like there way of revenge.
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By celestia836
On Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:21 PM
Nope, Germany was not treated fairly after WW1. I had this unit last March, so it's kind of fuzzy (I'm tired so I didn't take the time to read out all the details that the OP so kindly wrote), which means that I won't embarrass myself by attempting to explain.

TomatoWench, my boyfriend would adore you. He's American, like me, but his ancestors are from Germany and he would LOVE to have German citizenship like you do. We've discussed this topic before and he's said everything you've said, almost word for word. :D
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1? (karma: 1)
By tutulessmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Dec 29, 2005 01:49 PM
Katy, your Rhur is spelled Ruhr and is a river, not a town. You were right about the industrial factor though. The Ruhr area is famous for its coal mines and large industry.

Why did Germany sign the Locarno treaty and voluntarily set the borders you ask? Ever heard of the saying "Beggers can't be chosers"? Locarno had quite a few advantages for the Germans, despite the loss of land!

Remilitarising the Ruhr area, rebuilding the army... umm, that was Hitler. Remember Hitler, that super villain guy? Well, super villains do mean stuff like that. Life sucks, eh?

Celestia, I take it your boyfriend's German ancestors do not include his parents? So he can't get two citizenships? :( Tell him to help with stabilizing our economy by becoming a well-paying tourist ;)

Love,
Tomato
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:12 PM
:( I wish I could contribute to this, but AP European History hasn't even reached the French Revolution yet :( and I don't remember much from US History II (two years ago).

But I think that the cost of the war should have been split up between all those who participated, not lumped onto the one country that started it. If you fought and destroyed things, it logically follows that you should pay (as in $$,pay!) for them.
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By tutulessmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri Dec 30, 2005 06:56 AM
However, during WWI Germany had occupied so much land which is no longer claimed by them. Most of the battles were fought on this land.


Moot point. How else do you think one claims land if not by fighting on it? They certainly didn't play chess to decide over the country!
whats done is done
By radiOtrOn
On Mon Jan 02, 2006 08:44 PM
who cares
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By tutulessmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jan 03, 2006 03:07 AM
*headdesk*

'nuff said
re: Were Germany Treated Fairly After World War 1?
By Crazy_Clairemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jan 03, 2006 07:01 AM
I can't wait for history this term, we're doing about Hitler and all that! and the treaty of versailles!!


xxClairexx
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