This is a letter I sent to Hall of Fame Dance Challenge after a semi-upsetting weekend in boca raton....Do you think I received an apology or reply? Its been one month and I have heard nothing from them........tell me about your experiences please....

To Whom it may concern:
We attended the most recent Boca Raton hall of fame event. We did not participate in the end of the competition because we did not have any large groups. Therefore we never found out who our teen all-stars were. I would like it if you could send that info to me. I was also never given the DVD critique's for the second stage.

If you don't mind I have some suggestions and/or complaints to make:
First I would like to start off with that my girls had a blast! They love attending your competition and it is the only one we do attend. There however was a few problems i had this year. Backstage, by the main stage, there was beer bottles present and "prop dads" from other studios drunk. We as Teachers, Parents and just Humans should want to set good morals upon our children. Drinking at a youth dance competition just does not seem right. My girls are smart enough to know that it is funny that the other prop dads are drunkerds stumbling around and were able to laugh it off when they were approached by a dad who was yelling in there faces to get out of the way, while reeking of beer.

I thought it was unfair that just because our team was not participating in the last awards ceremony( because we did not have any teen large groups)they did not get to be part of the all star announcement. It kind of loses its luster getting the announcement from me a week later dont you think? Not Fair.

We at In Motion have always been a fan of Hall of Fame because you have excellent and fair judges. That is something you don't find anymore. I was very upset about "age appropriate" choreography. Why are 16 yr old girls groping themselves on stage and getting top scores. Are we preparing them for a job as a stripper or job in the real world dancing in a pro. company. I understand you are only the comp. and can not control this but when I was competing years and years ago they would lower scores if it was not appropriate. Honestly take a moment and think about your own children. I would not want my 10 yr old to think its ok to go to target buy a piece of lingerie , put rhinestones on it and jump on stage and start thrusting. ew. really! When you have someone as excellent of a choreographer as Tokyo on staff you would think your judges would know the difference between "real" dance and spinning in circles with my my leg in my ear lobe and then shaking their butts. I am proud to be the recipient of your junior and teen intensity awards. That meant more than anything to my girls. Looking out and beyond the audience and projecting their emotion is one of the biggest things I teach them . Thank you for acknowledging that...

and sadly my last words are...Yes we are a small studio and did not pay you guys in the thousands in entry fees and yes we only had 13 numbers, But please, these girls work just as hard as the other kids (we have the highest professional success rate in miami). Not once did anyone say hello to us. We should all be treated equally. Your check in girl was rude and could not even look me in the eye. We were here last year ( reg. and Nat. ) and you guys still did not know who we were. At Starpower we went one year and the next year they remembered me by name. Its the little things that count.

These are only suggestions and complaints. You can make of them what you want. We will not be able to attend nationals due to popular vote by the parents and dancers.

Thank you and good luck

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I just last week received the name of my all stars along with a ripped envelope and hall of fame patches....
still no reply

hmmmm. I will be interested to hear what they say! (if anything).

I did not enjoy my experience with them last year, so in turn, we just didn't go back. I never wrote them, but I can't imagine you are the first who has ever said anything to them.

Keep us updated on what happens!!!

Good for you writing that lettter. If more of us stood up for the "age appropriate" rule maybe things would change. I,too, run a small studio and get tired of feeling like we don't matter at competition. I've never done HOF and probably won't because they seem to allow the kind of dancing that I don't want my students subjected to.

I appreciate the statement you made of "little studio with only 13 numbers." I get frustrated with competitions because I am a small studio too, and sometimes feel they overlook me. Yet, when it comes to the awards, we are the only studio who receives top awards. We didn't pay the most amount money but our routines were extremely liked. I quit going to competitions that treated us that way. I felt the directors were too money hunger and not running the competitions for kids to compete, just to line their pocketbooks. But again, I salute you for bringing that topic up because it makes me angry as well.

I thought that maybe it was a Miami thing (the less you wear the better), but as I pay closer attention to the other cities that are competing, I can see this stuff happening there too. Anybody have any ideas of clean and holsom cities to compete in?

mariebandres wrote:

Backstage, by the main stage, there was beer bottles present and "prop dads" from other studios drunk. We as Teachers, Parents and just Humans should want to set good morals upon our children. Drinking at a youth dance competition just does not seem right.

Ladies an gentlemen. This is without a doubt, the biggest growing trend I have seen in the past two years as a judge. I have seen 5 different events this past year alone where parents are drinking in the audience.

Teachers and owners ... please take a stand with your families and let them know this is not acceptable behavior at a dance competition.

In answer to mariebandres, Honey, I don't know where is a good, wholesome place to compete because I am in the middle of the "bible belt" and we still see it here!

I'm surprised they haven't gotten back to you because I've always had great communication to and from them. I'm with you on the All-star thing though. I would never know unless I asked if I ever had any. We mainly only take solos to HOF and have no large groups anyway!

They have probably not gotten back to you because you only had thirteen numbers. Just a drop in the bucket. I never brought my kids to that competition due to what I see online and so many inappropriate numbers. I would never allow my kids to see that and any competition we attended that DID do it, we never returned.

Good for you for writing. I wonder where they had this event. Was it in a hotel or on school grounds. If on school grounds, it's illegal in many states or at least against school rules, and should be reported to the venue.

Just letting you know All stars at hall of Fame are NOT a big deal. Almost everyone who does a solo gets one...doesnt matter how you score, they just want you back for nationals ($250 gift certificate). Break the floor scholarships are more important but still not that great in terms of rewards since it cost so much to go to. Drunk dads are innapropriate anywhere,,but it is the studio (and the police's problem) Also, I dont expect any comp to remember me by name, they literally see thousands of dance teachers every year. Even when I consistantly win overalls at their comps, why should I get any special service? I dont..
Lastly Hall of Fame did not Do Video critiques at least for Winston Salem...so are you sure this is the right comp?

I agree with the whole post except for the innapropriate dances on the site. I think the site offers a wide variety of talent and choreography I don't often see anything i think won because of simply shaking ass. If dancers are doing 10 turns then shake your ass, talent is still needing to be credited. this is a topic that stems alot and all i know is briteny spears sister is 17, pregnant, and my young dancers can still watch zoe 101 on tv at anytime like that isn't a bad influence! or vanessa, miley, and whoever else can put out explicit photo's but we all still let the kids buy into them, i mean come on studio's around the country i'm sure used at least one highschool musical song in the past year or so, and eveeryone saw vanessa's nude pics, so whats the message we send there? not that i wish keeping it clean wasn't recognized more, deffinately get that but at the same time, if society is going to make sex the new it for 18 and unders than the crime is hard to find. yeah maybe it sucks and makes our kids grow up way to fast, but it's not all the competitions faults! also choreography is only so much of the points, so some times judges do score them lower on the "routine" section thinking maybe they will get the point but the rest of there skill makes up for it. thats something else that bothers me the judges can't collaborate and say this or that should be overall so it's not a joint decission. I dunno I'm just waiting for someone brilliant persion to come along and change competitive dance but for now it is what it is.

Still no reply huh? Well I was about to write showstoppers for the same thing. OH MY...when my 13 year old dancer went onstage up against other 13 year olds, I could not believe my eyes when I saw them in Bras and Panties, rhinestoned of course and rubbing and humping all over the floor and themselves....AT 13!!!!!! I would disqualify them...what are the judges even thinking and half of these dances...it was just walk walk, kick, walk walk leap, walk walk a million turns in second into a double reverse illusion, walk walk, kick, walk walk, quadruple turn into a quadruple coupe, walk walk...yeah you get the idea right? Cant these choreographers be more creative??? what is wrong with the dance world anymore? Even the ones who dance well but arent showing off turns, do not score as high? Wierd? I am not going to wast my breath with a letter...it wont get a reply I am sure:-) Let us know if you get one:-)

Would drafting a letter to the local Better Business Bureau help?

The one clincher is to look at the website of this outfit, and find out if this is really how they operate.

There might be things OUT of their control.. however....

Is there any way of contacting other parties that went there, and had a similar treatment.. and see what happens?

Also, if you drafted a letter to "Hall of Fame Dance Challenge" mentioning to them that in lieu of what's on their website, they are in violation of such and such and such?

Maybe the winners are on the website?


Sorry this happened to you and your group!

That's nasty what with all the drunks walking around! What does it say about the area?????


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Okay, found SOME stuff.. went to the Hall of Fame website.. saw this:
www.halloffamedance.com . . .

link has results of comps.


And, about Boca Raton all Stars:

"All-Stars



The judges will select certain outstanding performers in the Junior, Teen and Senior age divisions as All-Stars. All-Stars will receive an All-Star patch and are invited to perform at one of our three Nationals. There, All-stars will have the opportunity to take free choreography/master classes in all subjects of dance to prepare for the opening number of our World Series Finals at one of our Nationals. The World Series Finals will take place on the last day of each national event.

Our 2008 Nationals in Chicago will be held at the Pheasant Run Resort from June 30 - July 4, and our Nationals in Orlando will be taking place at the Peabody Hotel July 5-9.

The costume for the opening number is any white shirt and black jazz pants or skirt. Each All-Star should bring this with them to Nationals. Dancers should also bring all of their dance shoes; the All-Star production will include several dance styles. Most dancers will appear in portions of the dance, and Hall of Fame does not guarantee which section a dancer will dance.

There is no charge to participate. The master classes/choreography and performance opportunity is free to all Hall of Fame All-Stars. All-Stars make also take the free master classes that are open to all dancers.

All-Stars do not have to register in order to participate in the opening number, though if they wish to compete in Nationals, they will have to register for the Nationals competition by either registering through their studio, mailing in a form, or by using our online registration. Registration is only required if the All-Star wants to compete an entry. All-Stars should plan on rehearsing every day, and the detailed All-Star rehearsal schedule will be up the week before Nationals, as soon as the Nationals competition schedule is finalized."

from: www.halloffamedance.com . . .


Hall of Fame contact information:
www.halloffamedance.com . . .


Hope these links at least provided SOME things!


S.

This is the reason we don't do comps anymore. I don't need to pay good money to buy awards for other studios simply because we don't have as many entries.
Instead we work on technique in class and save the choreography for twice yearly performances, which do more for the morale of my dancers than a cheap trophy.
Kids face enough competition and disappointment in life and my dancers truly dance because they love to do it, not because they get a ribbon or a trophy.

Watching many of the HOF videos on YouTube, I see what you mean about the attire. At no point is it appropriate for 8-10 year old girls to dance in padded bra tops. It's simply unnecessary. Also, I DO really appreciate girls who can REALLY turn, but I was watching several videos by a young lady that is apparently very well known on the competition circuit, and all I could think was "sure she's super flexible and her turns are amazing, but there's NOTHING in between". When dances are all tricks, you may as well be watching a gymnastics meet, waiting for the tumbling passes. There needs to be some DANCING between the tricks! That's just me, but if I wanted to watch "technique clusters" I'd go watch a conditioning class.

It was hall of fame that did not give me my junior solo dvd critiques. All my other groups did get them...

Courtney19 wrote:

Just letting you know All stars at hall of Fame are NOT a big deal. Almost everyone who does a solo gets one...doesnt matter how you score, they just want you back for nationals ($250 gift certificate). Break the floor scholarships are more important but still not that great in terms of rewards since it cost so much to go to. Drunk dads are innapropriate anywhere,,but it is the studio (and the police's problem) Also, I dont expect any comp to remember me by name, they literally see thousands of dance teachers every year. Even when I consistantly win overalls at their comps, why should I get any special service? I dont..
Lastly Hall of Fame did not Do Video critiques at least for Winston Salem...so are you sure this is the right comp?

Courtney.

Apathy is never the solution. In fact its that type of behavior which feeds into these types of problems. Im going to reply to your post which I would also advise to you in the future to not make blanket statements. I don't know if it was your intention but your post came off as elitist to me.

If the competition guarentees certain services like critque tapes, DVDs or other materials, then they need to deliver. Its that simple.

Just because certain aspects arent important to you... like scholarships for example, doesn't mean that that same recognition isn't important to another student. Some kids don't train 100 hours a week and do only one competition a year, so maybe that type of oportunity means the world to them.

In regard to to my earlier statement about parents and alcohol. It is the HOST COMPETITIONS issue. They are to guarentee a clean and safe event free of violence and substances for underage minors. The police can only react if they are called.

Let me assure you that if someone was involved in any type of scenario (violence, accidents, innaproriate conduct, etc,) while under the influence, and it happened during and at the location of the competition, it is the COMPETITION that would be held responsible, and more importantly, LIABLE.

Sidenote: I BELIEVE That the studio owners need to take responsibility for their families and nip this crap in the bud now. They should be ejecting competitive families that are doing this before letting them step foot into the competition. But if it happens during the comp, the studio owner won't be held responsible just because the student is from that particular studio.

Lastly, there are more competitions then you can count in the US today. When you pay for a service, whether its 13 numbers or 13,000, most studio owners and directors expect to be acknowledged. Its refered to as customer relations. Otherwise you take your business elsewhere.

As a director, I want my checkin girl to say, "Hello Mr. Wing, how are you today? If you have any questions please come and find me and ill take care of things for you, my name is Suzy."

And after I want the director of the comp to say "Mr Wing, thank you for choosing our competition, we hope you have a great experience. Any suggestions or changes you would like to see? What was your competition experience like with us?"

I took my kids to Codance for the first time last year, and I only brought 6 numbers. But ill go back again. Why? Not because the convention was good. Not because my kids scored well.

It's because Nancy O'Meara knew exactly who I was. "You must be Tyler Wing! Hi Im Nancy, welcome to CoDance. Let me go through somethings with you just to make sure you know since it your first time with us..." Ding ding ... Points for Nancy.

HOF is a HUGE competition in the market today. But it doesn't take much bad press to change that scenario. Trust me, Teachers talk and share experiences on boards like DDN and Danceart all the time. I have seen firsthand the effect of negative press from threads like this on a competition and its impact. One competition I know of from all of the bad press it got on DDN canceled 40 percent of their dates this season.

I am not making an statement about HOF, I have never taken my students. Someday I still might to experience it.

I also don't agree with all of the statements made in this thread.

You cannot hold a competition responsible for the content brought forth in the entries. It starts with the studios and directors making those submissions. If HOF disqualified numbers or ANY competition for that matter, the fact of the matter would be that they would be out of business. Also I can guarentee that if someone disqualified one of your numbers you would be having a meltdown.

SECONDLY, and something I have said before, there is no definitive line on what is appropriate and what is innapropriate.

I dont think any of us can view a competitors work and remain subjective for one thing, and you also may have a different opinion on what is in good taste.

I am one of those teachers that is far more edgy and pushes the envelope then most. Do I do innapropriate choreography or choose poor costumes. Not in my opinion. But its all relative. I'm sure someone out there would deem my pieces or students as "over the line." But what makes their choices right and mine wrong?

I think we all need to chill out and think a little on this subject. I think we all need to stop pointing fingers at other peoples work an stop crying innapropriate.

Focus on your own house, your own program.

Focus on how you can win, and win the way YOU want.

There is a difference between EDGY and sexually provacative outfits on an 8 year old, period. I would let my daughter do a contemporary funky piece to a Portishead song, sure, but I would not let her dance in a padded bra top and panties. It's the insinuation of that kind out ensemble. It's very Jon Benet in my opinion, and that kind of sexuality has no place in a dance competition (on the young girls) IMO. I'm not holding HOF liable for that, but the PARENTS who don't say "wait a minute here, is this necessary?" OR scarier, the parents that ENCOURAGE their girls to "wink at the judges honey, show them your booty". I've heard it, and it's disgusting.

Have to tell you - we couldn't have been HAPPIER with our experience at Hall of Fame in Niagara Falls. Staff was awesome, atmosphere was friendly and fun...we loved it and can't wait to go back next year. They do offer video critiques, because we received ours...

Only thing I do agree with your post though, is we saw many younger kids wearing age inappropriate costumes and doing age inappropriate movements. Not the fault of the competition though...but I do agree that they should take the deduction off when necessary.

For the second time, we went to HOF Detroit this year and we had a great time! The critiques were right on, the staff was very nice and accomodating and the awards were really fun. We love HOF so sometimes it just depends on the city and the people working.

ShakeItMomma wrote:

There is a difference between EDGY and sexually provacative outfits on an 8 year old, period. I would let my daughter do a contemporary funky piece to a Portishead song, sure, but I would not let her dance in a padded bra top and panties. It's the insinuation of that kind out ensemble.

Again your speaking on relative terms here. You have a belief. you also view certain clothing choices where others may not have the same belief. The insinuation is one that you yourself have but the person next to you may not.

I have ordered many times a two piece outfit for my juniors. I don't believe its sexual at all.

Also if you research the ballroom genre, there are kids that old that are competing WITH A MALE PARTNER executing movements that are inherent to those forms (Salsa, Cha cha,) which Im sure under what you have described eariler would be FAR more innapropriate. Heck take a look at the ballroom boards on DDN here or the costume pics when you first come to the site. They are a lot more flashy and show far more skin then what I see at competition for the conventional forms. But nevertheless, this is an accepted and encouraged pratice in that genre.

Do I agree parents or teachers should be coaching kids to visually seduce judges? Course not.

But the subjects are two entirely different matters which I think your confusing into one.

Again I must reiterate. Focus on your own school, program, students, and child, teach them the way YOU want, have them compete how you want, but please stop bashing others for what they do.

If it doesn't fall into your taste, simply chaulk it up to professional differences.

Let me make something clear. I think edgy is great and I have no problems with certain styles of dance that may culturally be seductive or suggestive. Let me paint you a picture of what I believe is a bit off for me.
Imagine a 13 year old girl dancing to a song that talks about how she is maturing and then decides choreographically to grab her boobs. All this while she is wearing a teddy.
I dont care who you are or what your beliefs are that should not be considered ok. If you think thats ok you need to get your head checked.
The Alvin Ailey company can jump around fierce as fire in there little "man trunks" and that wont bother me. Why? Because its beautiful and they are mature adults and it usually makes sense with what they are doing.

OK moving on to the next subject. Without sounding like a jerk. My choreography is always celebrated as great work. Yet when it comes to "top scores" we are never around. Being in the top score at competitions does not effect me. These girls succeed in other ways.I refuse to ask my dancers to do 15 turns or throw that leg up unless it has a meaning.Dance is a form of expression and we also need to remember that it is art. I want to see some dancing that has gut and passion. The competition dancer will not get into college and jobs working in professional companies if we just teach them tricks. There are many other steps in between the tricks. Its not walk kick, walk turn ,walk jump at Cedar Lake or complexions! Do half these kids know what a contraction is? Am I wrong? I dont prepare my kids for cruise lines and Disney Parades. We should use our skills as teachers to prepare them for the real world, aka the respectful side of dance.
I am a lover and fan of the National Foundation of the arts. Every year these amazing kids, with the right ideas of what dance is, come together in Miami to compete for Scholarships. These children are performing Horton style solos as well as classical variations. This is what all those competitions should be aiming for! These children are given mentors like Barishinkov to help them along the way. Thats a real prize!

I in no way intend to start a revolution but would not mind. Im the last person that will settle for "Its there and we just have to deal with it". Yikes that is a horrible way to think and bad example for our youth.

Thank you for all your replys and comments. I may sound stubborn or spoiled, but i have a love for this art and am starting to see a sad future for it if we carry on like this.

mariebandres - I agree with you one hundred percent! That is EXACTLY how I feel and I will never feel any differently.

It was sometimes disconcerting when my kids, well-trained, competed against the same kids, over and over, who beat them, but when I saw the same kids in workshops, my kids out-danced them. They were one-dimensional, competition style.

Not only that, I was a bit conservative in dress, movements, music, and always was praised for it and won choreography awards for it. I always went for what the music told me the steps should be and did not worry about if I got in leg grabs, crotch kicks, fouettes, switch leaps, and so on.

The one thing that made me the happiest is when judges said, "This number is incredibly entertaining," or "it was like a mini Broadway show." The kids so enjoyed doing those dances, too.

This is not a bragging thing, but just that I wanted them to learn so many different styles and some schools, even though the kids do what they are taught well, don't always teach them to be whole dancers.

One of my colleagues, who is a long-time teacher at places like Steps, Broadway Dance Center and NYU, once said to me, "They have to know that when they audition, no one will care how they did at competition but can they be versatile enough to do ANY choreography." That stuck with me through my years of teaching competitive kids.

I guess I can go to bed every night with a clear conscience that I did nothing to contribute to my students into thinking that sleeze is okay, even if to win a big prize.