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Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By MadRussianmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Apr 27, 2003 06:16 PM

I wanted to know what everyone thinks. Someone asked me this question and I say Stalin because he killed so many polish people and some Russians (he murdered like 35 million in all or something close to that number). I think the most overrated leader of all time in George Bush.. since he has been ignoring The chechen terrorists in Russia and also ignoring North Korea.

I'd have to say the best leader(s) of all time (I just can't pick 1) are: Winston Churchill, Rudy Guiliani, George Washington, Bill Clinton (he has supported Russia so much and thats why a lot of Russians like Americans) and Vladimir Putin :)

~Ruskii B!

65 Replies to Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??

re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By DancinEmsmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Sun Apr 27, 2003 08:09 PM
Bill Clinton???? hahahaha!!!! Wasn't quite the first one to pop into my head. Interesting how u think george bush is worse than hitler, hussein, etc.
-Emily
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By MrsFinnigan
On Sun Apr 27, 2003 09:38 PM
It's hard to say. History? That's pretty broad. I think the Roman emporers between Augustus and Constantine were pretty harsh, particularly Nero. I'd rank England's King Richard the "Lion-Hearted" among the most overrated. After all, while he was off fighting a misguided "religious" war, it was his brother back home who ran the country and wrote the Magna Carta, and he wasn't all that great, either.
As for who I think the best leader in history is, well, I'm a Christian woman, so that should be obvious.
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By AshleyDaniellemember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Sun Apr 27, 2003 09:38 PM
I can see how you would think Bush is overrated, because you're not seeing much of what he's doing. But Americans do, and while he's not the best president we've ever had, he certainly isn't doing a shabby job. He's got guts, and he's helping plenty of other countries. We can't help everyone at once. There are plenty of other able-bodied countries that aren't helping you.... why not pick on their leaders?
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By AussieAsherinamember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Mon Apr 28, 2003 07:31 AM
Worst- Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Saddam
Bad- Nixon, Ngo Dinh Diem (couldn't put them in the same category as the "worst" ones, but they were still bad)
Overrated- John Howard (current Australian PM)- the only great thing he has done was changing the gun legislation.
Best- Wilson (was idealistic with his fourteen points for peace after WW1, believed in self determination for countries, wanted to establish League of Nations), Ho Chi Minh (fought hard for his people's plight, was modest and humble, didn't seek fame), Martin Luther King Jr (I don't recall you saying it had to be a political leader, just a leader... he led his people to greater equality), Ghandi, Nelson Mandela... oh Gough Whitlam (I think he had some really good ideas but then he got sacked... he doesn't really belong under "best" but I think he could have done well if he was given a good chance)
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By Acrothiel
On Mon Apr 28, 2003 09:16 AM
Edited by Acrothiel (54047) on 2003-04-28 09:20:12 added something
Worst: I agree with you, Stalin and I add Hitler of course (They were opponents and they did the same bad things) Overrated: G. W. Bush (I will never forgive him that he didn't sign the Kyoto-Protocol) and Che Guevara.

Best: Adolf Ogi (I think no one knows him here, so I explain it: He was the Bundespräsident from Switzerland and now he is the sport-minister in the UN)and I have another best one, or two: Michail Gorbatschow, and Benazir Bhutto.
I know, there are more bad and good leaders in the world but I don't have time to write them all down here.
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By Odessamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Apr 28, 2003 09:23 AM
Hmm.
Worst - Anyone who's been involved in the mass genocide of a particular group of people. Josef Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot and Saddam Hussein come to mind. However, Vladimir Lenin wasn't as great a guy as everyone thought he was.

However, there is a branch of historical debate that suggests that Hitler was actually a good leader. And, believe it or not, they're NOT Neo-Nazi's. The group suggests that despite Hitler leading the genocide of the Jews, that he was actually a good leader. He was good AT his job. He was smart, and knew how to get the people onside. He was a brilliant orator, and a shrewd politician. Certainly, he was a bit of a nutcase, but he was a very smart man. However, the same could be said for many of the men we consider to be the "worst" leaders in History.
So the term "worst" is a bit arbitrary. Anyway.

As for overrated, I'd have to agree with Ashlee on John Howard, the Australian Prime Minister.

Tsar Nicholas Romanov II, last Tsar of Russia. He may have been divinely appointed, but he was Tsarina Alexandra's puppet.

Also, in that category, I'd suggest my High School Principal, ha ha ha. All the parents thought she was great, everyone else (students and teachers combined) thought she was a pain in the butt.

Best? I liked Gough Whitlam, one time Prime Minister of Australia. He had good ideas. Like Ashlee said, shame he was sacked, I think our current politicians could learn a thing or two.

The Dalai Lama. He's got good ideas.He's such a peaceful man, and yet he doesn't just sit around and let the world go by. I think he could save the world, if everyone gave him a chance to.

Jesus Christ. He had good ideas too. His outlook on life was great, and while I'm not Christian, which means that technically I shouldn't believe he existed, I do think that if we all "love one another the way I have loved you", there'd be less misery in this world. I think we could all stand to learn a few things from the way Jesus saw the world and treated other people, especially those who were different or less fortunate.

Emmeline Pankhurst. She was the leader of the womens suffrage movement in England at the beginning of the 20th Century. Along with her daughters, who's names escape me at the moment, she was instrumental in securing the right to vote for women.

Then there are people like Nelson Mandela and Steve Biko, who were important in the ending of Apartheid in South Africa.

Anyway, there's my list of the good, the bad, and the indifferent. Great idea for a thread :)

Erin.
::righteous babe::
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By Odessamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Apr 28, 2003 09:34 AM
Edited by Odessa (22571) on 2003-04-28 09:36:27 markup
Edited by Odessa (22571) on 2003-04-28 09:37:51 gah...markup
Edited by Odessa (22571) on 2003-04-28 09:39:34 does markup not work anymore?
Edited by Odessa (22571) on 2003-04-28 09:40:35 obviously not.
K, well Acrothiel posted while I was writing my response, and I just wanted to comment on something she said.
Overrated: G. W. Bush (I will never forgive him that he didn't sign the Kyoto-Protocol)

Thats how I see it as well. I don't want to start anything, but the only reason that John Howard hasn't signed the Protocol is that Mr Bush hasn't. What our Mr Howard fails to see is that because he's just doing it (or in this case not doing it) because of what Mr Bush is doing, that he's putting Australians directly at risk from the UV radiation coming through the hole in the Ozone Layer directly above us, caused by the very same Greenhouse Gas Emissions that the Kyoto Protocol seeks to reduce.
In that instance, I see Mr Bush as overrated. I wish Mr Howard could think for himself on issues like this - in this case, Australia is DRAMATICALLY differently affected by non-ratification than the US is.

Erin.
::righteous babe::
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By AussieAsherinamember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Tue Apr 29, 2003 01:07 AM
Emmaline Pankhurst was one I forgot to add to my list, how could I!!!

Odessa and I must have really similar views on Aussie politics lol.
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history?? (karma: 1)
By fairy_dustmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Apr 29, 2003 08:17 AM
Best: Jesus Christ, the Pope.

Worst: Saddam Hussein, Hitler.

Overrated: I don't know. I've never really thought about it.
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By Fouette_Forever
On Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:52 PM
Best:Trudeau, Roosevelt,Clinton,Gandi
Wost:Saddam,Hitler any leader with an opression/racist regim.
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By Nadyezheda
On Tue Apr 29, 2003 06:46 PM
Odessa/Erin wrote:
Jesus Christ. He had good ideas too. His outlook on life was great, and while I'm not Christian, which means that technically I shouldn't believe he existed, I do think that if we all "love one another the way I have loved you", there'd be less misery in this world. I think we could all stand to learn a few things from the way Jesus saw the world and treated other people, especially those who were different or less fortunate.


Actually Jeshua Ben Joseph (aka Jesus Christ) did exist in our world. Whether he is the "biological" son of god is another matter and one which differentiates Christians from non-Christians. Similar to your own opinion, if more people followed what he said rather than be obsessed about who he was or might be, the world would indeed be a better place.

As for the original question in this thread:
Best: Pierre Elliot Trudeau (Canada), Winston Churchill (UK), Bill Clinton (US), V.I. Lenin (Soviet Union), JFK (US), Lech Walesa (Poland)...just ot name a few. But it really depends on one's definition of "best".

Overrated: G.W. Bush, Ronald Reagan (the guy was an ACTOR for chrissake!), Tony Blair (started strong, is ending weak).

Worst: List too long to write here but it would pretty much be summed up by what has already been said.
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By MadRussianmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sat May 03, 2003 07:19 AM
Well there has been some interesting leaders mentioned here, but I feel compelled to respond to one of the posts.

It's obviously that the normal american is not aware of what goes on in Chechnya, I for one live here and unless I read the Russian paper, I never hear anything about it. It's kind of like how the US ignores the civil wars and crisis going on in Africa and South America too. Not only do we find this disturbing, but we Russians have support from other countries, it is the UNITED STATES, that insists that the chechens aren't doing anything worng (yet my best friend in the military almost lost his life when his camp was bombed by these terrorists). It seems as if the people of Russia must convince Bush that the Chechens are tied to the "Axis of Evil". I'm sure most of you don't know, but the nightmare that happened here on Sept. 11 was funded by Chechens.. those same people who murder innocent Russians. Don't forget how america ignored Hitler and said it was Europe's problem. I'd like to think that the US government would never make the same mistake twice...

~The dixie chicks are sorry that the president is from texas... I'm sorry he was ever elected...

Ruskii B!
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By MrsFinnigan
On Sat May 03, 2003 12:41 PM
Ruskii, we Americans know good and well what's going on in Chechnya. While we do not approve of their means, you must remember that we are aware of our history, which includes an all-out war against a major power for our independence. We see independence as a worthy goal for the Chechens, but that they're going about it the wrong way. On the other hand, we do also support Russia. So that's why you don't hear much about it here. When two people you respect are quarreling with each other and you just wish they could solve the problem peacefully, you don't take sides, and you don't have much to say about it.
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By Lientjemember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Sat May 03, 2003 05:17 PM
hmz overrated: bush, sharon, arrafat
dictators: hitler, mussolini, franco, stalin and lenin
good ones in my eyes: clinton yes he had sex with that women but hell we had at least peace and he putted pressure on sharon to set everything right. our ex minister president jean-luc Dehaene yes he was rude but he is smart and can make a lot well. Charles quint he introduced the schools in the middelages yeah i know the americans don't know this emperor but he was great he was also called keizer karel de goede or in english emperor charles the good one.
amuse yourself with this thread

Lien
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history?? (karma: 1)
By califeisgirl
On Sat May 03, 2003 05:30 PM
Uhmmm, I feel like throwing a wrench into the gears. Are we talking about good leaders or good people? Like it or not dictators are some of the best leaders we have, people do what they tell them to do. Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini might not be very good people, but when you come right down to it, they must have been pretty good leaders. Hitler made many people feel ok with killing how many? You have to be a pretty good leader in order to do that. Nixon was a great president, he just wasn't a very good person.
If you want to go for both, I'd have to say Jesus is the best pick. Whether or not you believe He was the saviour, look at how many people do/did believe and follow him.
Good leaders are not always good people. Good people are not always good leaders.
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history?? (karma: 1)
By orunmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Sat May 03, 2003 06:32 PM
First, to put all the "Bush is overrated" comments to an end, Bush is NOT overrated. Sorry. Liberals still hate him, and I have yet to see any parades in honor of him! Even amongst Republicans he is not being hailed as the second Ronald Reagan.

Best: Jesus (obviously), Joan of Arc, Augustus Caesar, King David, Abraham Lincoln

Worst: Guess what Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, and Mao Tse Tung all have in common? They were staunch evolutionists! I nominate Darwin as the worst leader ever!

Overrated: FDR
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By Foofinamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun May 04, 2003 09:26 AM
Ahem. Maybe you think FDR is overrated, Orun, because you dont like when liberals say that Bush is overrated.
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By orunmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Sun May 04, 2003 07:40 PM
Or maybe it has nothing to do with Bush and more to do with the fact that FDR plummeted our nation into an alphabet soup of government programs.
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By balletbug
On Sun May 04, 2003 10:12 PM
Worst - probably Stalin.
Overrated - now, you all are going to think I am un-American or something, but J.F. Kennedy. He almost got us into WWIII with the Cuban Misle Crisis, and other than having a great charisma, he really didn't know what he was doing. I'll admit, he was good at getting the American public's national pride up, but unfortunately, he wasn't very well versed in the political relm of things.
Best - ooh, that's a tough one. Let me think about that one for a while, because even the great leaders had their down points.
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By Enum
On Fri May 30, 2003 02:45 PM
The Worst: George W. Bush
The Most Overrated: George W. Bush
Best: I am undecided, however some of my favorites are:
-Tokugawa Ieyasu
-Ho Chi Minh
-Oda Nobunga
-Tsar Peter The Great
-Tsar Alexander (The one that fought off Napolean, unless my history is incredibly screwed today).
-George Patton
-Admiral Yamamoto

I'll end that there, because I could go on forever naming some of my favorite generals and other world leaders :).
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By Enum
On Fri May 30, 2003 02:53 PM
"Guess what Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, and Mao Tse Tung all have in common? They were staunch evolutionists!"

That is the most irrelevant argument I have ever heard.

I could name one, if not two or three, nearly equally as bad religious figures. I mean, seriously, I have never seen someone take such an abstract fact and use it as an argument like that. I could just as well make a list of bad presidents that were democratic or republic an and say mabye this party is the worst party ever, or take all of a companies bad products and use them as a reason to state that company is the worst company ever.

Give me a break.

What's in common with Saddam Hussein, the leader of Iran, half of the dictators in Africa, and other random dictators throughout the Middle East, Africa, and Southwestern Asia? Oh, that's right! They're religious!

Also, one more thing, Lenin was not that bad. I can't stand it when people compare Lenin with Staling, because Lenin himself though Stalin was rude and evil, and would have rather had Trotsky as the next leader. In all honesty, Lenin was not evil or anything of the sort, he is probably the leader which stayed closest to the actuall ideals of communism out of all of the rest.

It's like comparing Stalin to Krushchev, who if you research him, was not that bad either.
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By Roisinmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri May 30, 2003 04:57 PM
Edited by irish_dancer05 (58484) on 2003-05-30 16:59:49
Edited by irish_dancer05 (58484) on 2003-05-30 17:00:03
Edited by irish_dancer05 (58484) on 2003-05-30 17:00:18
Worst : George W. Bush, Hitler, Tojo, Pol Pot, Stalin, Fidel Castro-

Best: Franklin Roosevelt, Catherine the Great, Winston Churchill and Abraham Lincoln, George Washington
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history?? (karma: 2)
By Myfairlady
On Mon Jun 02, 2003 06:15 PM
Edited by Myfairlady (38679) on 2003-06-02 18:26:23
Edited by Myfairlady (38679) on 2003-06-02 18:26:53
I think the most over-rated was John F. Kennedy. People loved him because he was young and handsome, and because he had a tragic end to his life. Meanwhile, they forget about things like the Bay of Pigs incident and the Cuban Missile Crisis--both of which were handled poorly. (Esp. the Bay of pigs.)

I really like George Washington as a great leader--though it's hard to pick just one. Winston Churchill is a favorite too.

The worst--probably Nero. He started the Christian persecution in 54 AD. I believe. He slaughtered millions.

PS. People--over rated means that someone gets more praise than they deserve. Meanwhile, most of the world and all the liberals in America (Hollywood included) despise Pres. George W. Bush. How is that being over rated? If you hate him, just put him in the worst category. Think before you just put his name down for every bad thing you can think of.

PPS. Those of you who put GW Bush in the same category as Hitler, Stalin, etc., pull your heads out of your butts and try not to let your hatred blind your reason. You're all a bunch of cry baby ignoramusus. I think Chirac is a very poor leader (and some others), but he's definitely not one of the WORST. I would never put him in a category alongside Hitler and and others. This attitude against our president is just insulting.
re: Who do you think was the worst/overrated/ best leader in history??
By Fouette_Forever
On Mon Jun 02, 2003 07:12 PM
BRAVO Myfairlady!

While I whole heartedly disagree with most of everything Bush stands for, I would NOT put him with Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini and Hussein. Bush had rather *cough naive cough* views and I don't think he's all there, but he's trying for the good of all people, not having relgious or racial persecution or slaughter houses like the others. I couldn't believe that whne i saw it but...

To every their own I guess? :S :S
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