Greetings folks, just a little bit of a vent here about learning ballet choreo during ballet class. I'm no newbie when it comes to dance classes and mastering choreography. Matter of fact, I'm a long-time hip hop dancer, choreographer and teacher. As a hip hop instructor, whenever I take/teach choreo, things are broken down, phrase-by-phrase, then repeated over and over and over again until we are actually *dancing* instead of just copying the teacher.

Why can't learning ballet choreo be more like this???

I'm referring specifically to when the class moves to center work and the teacher rattles off a combo, then we mark it once, then we're expected to execute flawlessly, then we stop dancing the combo after we've done it twice. Argh!!! It's all I could do to remember the steps! I usually have to resort to staring dead ahead at either the teacher of my fellow classmates, and by the time I actually *get* the combo, we're moving on to yet another just-as-complicated combo. During these times I never feel like I'm actually *dancing* but just copying my instructor or fellow students. I feel like I'm a prisoner of trying to remember the dance, concentrating so hard on where to put my arms and legs without grace or joy in the movement. More robot, less dancer.

Why is ballet class like this? Why can't we learn just one or two combos during center work, break each one down carefully, then dance it over and over and over again until we stop thinking about it and develop muscle memory and just DANCE?

If the answer to my question is, "That's the way it's always been done so get over it," not good enough. We're adult students taking ballet for recreation. It's supposed to be part fun, right?

Okay, rant over. Thank you for listening.

I truly do believe, and I know I've said it many times before here, that teaching beginning ballet to adults is a definite art form in and of itself. There are not many that do it well. Most people think that if they teach other classes then beginning ballet for adults will be a breeze. It's a totally different ball game altogether and takes a whole different approach to do it well.

I understand your frustration. Some of the adult classes I have taken or taught have been a very mixed bag to say the least. I've had teenagers who were very good dancers who just popped in for the extra class, older dancers who once danced pre-professionally or professionally all the way down to the adult taking his/her first ballet class.

I do believe though, that if an adult ballet class is listed as being a Beginner Adult Ballet class, it should stick to that level, no matter who shows up to class. The class should not be always brought up to the level of the most advanced dancer -- just not fair to the newbies.

I do believe that many teachers think that part of ballet is teaching your mind to react and act quickly, and learning combinations quickly is all part of that. But like you, I don't see the benefit to an adult dancer. I agree with you totally. In order for you to get any benefit, it must be broken down, bit by bit. Start out with a very small combination. Practice it, get it right, add on to it. Practice that, get it right, add on to that. If you do it that way, the combination gets longer and longer, but you are not changing anything, just adding to what you've already learned and eventually it feels like dancing. Adults have a much easier time with that.

But, sadly most teachers think they have to move the class so fast so people don't get bored. I don't think some realize that when dancers are frustrated, they don't have fun and they don't want to come back to class. Mimicking is not learning, it's being a parrot.

I'm glad you posted this question, and I wish I had an answer for you, but if you can't speak to your teacher (or take a lower level), keep searching for a teacher until you find one that fits your style.

Teaching beginning ballet to adults is one of my favorite classes to teach and one of the most rewarding classes. Everyone is always so enthusiastic and really wants to learn. I wish more teachers would understand that teaching adults is not just about giving you short combinations, but requires an entirely different approach and teaching style.

Thanks for listening to me rant too, and thank you again for posting this.

Good luck!

I agree with you, teaching adult beginners ballet class is something very different for teaching other ballet classes. I'm a ballet dancer so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think the difference between ballet and many other dance styles is that after years of training the ballet dancers do know HOW to do ALL the different steps, how to coordinate feet arms head and upper body with the movements, so in class they just have to remember witch step comes after the other, not HOW to do the steps. If you have to think about how to do the steps AND witch steps to do it will be too much information. When I try take modern classes I feel like that, it's just too much for my brain to handle, and I am not able to really work and get better either if I have to look out of the corner of my eye to follow somebody else.

I think the best thing for you to do is to ask the teacher to show the combinations again.

Good Luck!

I agree with ballerina_hu, the problem is that most of the steps in center are just a combination of the moves we learn at the barre. So many teachers seem to assume that learning new moves will be easy, but of course it's not. I've learned to mentally break down choreography into barre work -like a chassé is just a quick tendu sous-sus, etc.- and it's helped me a understand and remember the choreography I learn in class.

You make a good point, I think a lot of adults would enjoy ballet learning ballet more if the steps were broken down slowly and repeated often. I'm lucky though, I just switched studios and my adult ballet teacher is amazing, she stays on something long enough to make sure everyone understands it. My previous teachers weren't so kind.

What I would really like to see in adult ballet, since adults tend to learn more intellectually, is more of a verbal description of each part of a combination. I have a regular partner in my class who is an absolute genius at breaking down combinations into components, can accurately describe each of them, and then reassemble them into a meaningful whole dance combination. Without a clear picture in my head of what I'm supposed to be doing, I too feel like I'm being a dance parrot. I don't know how much our brains change as we age (spare me the "senior" jokes, my real-life job is highly technical, subject to emergencies, and requires full attention as peoples' lives depend on it!) However, in my dancing dotage here, while I am still technically very correct at the barre, move me to the center floor and it takes me ages to learn a new combination unless I have my partner near me, who whispers the components sotto voce. It can be perfectly maddening--let him miss a class, and I am very likely to take off on the floor in the wrong direction because of a misstep, and I've been known to do exactly that!

Yeah, I've noticed we'll work on things for a couple of weeks, then we won't end up doing them again for another six months..lol

Seriously, my main teacher will continue to have us work on a combination if we request it ahead of time and remind her.

My other teacher actually has elements of a combination that we'll do from week to week...but will vary it somewhat, so we do get some things down.

I think what everyone has said regarding a different methodology for adult teaching is spot on. I think there should be attention paid by the teacher to the demographic to which they are teaching, so that they can plan accordingly. However, I think I might be able to explain the "why" of the way most teachers teach combinations and such.

My teachers always threw different exercises and combinations at me very quickly, often with not very much explanation, and only gave me maybe two chances to do it correctly. They always said that they did it that way because, in the realm of professional ballet and dance, you will VERY many times have a choreographer who will not explain anything to you, but just give you steps that *YOU* must remember. This summer we had a choreographer give us a three minute pas de trois to do--we had half an hour to learn it, and we had to perform it the next day!

I guess what I'm saying is that ballet definitely gives your mind a workout on top of your body! The more you learn to adapt steps to your body quickly, the more adept you become, till eventually you can pick things up with nary a verbal cue from the teacher. But this goes back to the debate on whether teaching methods should be altered to suit the student demographic; I think they should be, but not everyone agrees. Either way, I think it's much more difficult to learn to adapt mentally in such a thrown-at-you way when you're over age 16--like one of my teachers once said, when you're a child you're fearless, but when you become an adult you actually start to really THINK about what you're doing!

hi. you cannot believe how relieved i am to know i'm not the only one. I've just joined a beginner's ballet class. it's been seven lessons (i know it's not alot and some dancers here might be talking about a matter of YEARS) but i can hardly remember any dance combo at all.

I have in fact JUST returned home from ballet class tonight and again, i found myself doing exactly what you said - looking head on at the teacher or my fellow dance mates and following their steps. what someone mentioned here about "knowing HOW to do it and knowing WHAT to do at the same time can be too much information" --- is really really true for me. Because i just started ballet, i find myself so conscious of whether i'm looking alright, whether i'm doing a proper turnout, pointing my foot out not going inwards, and PLUS trying to remember the crazy combo that my dance teacher rattles on in spanish once, and then makes us do it twice and then it's GAME OVER.

I'm taking lyrical jazz at the same time now and i find learning the cheorography so much easier. i go home and i still remember the routine, and it's just that much more satisfying just because i actually feel i learnt, and i danced. Not just copied and forgot. i really have taken an interest to ballet and i still think it is BEAUTIFUL and a amazing, amazing art, and i want to be a part of it, but sometimes it's just so discouraging and challenging.

I recently posted on the ballet-general board about remembering combinations and it was made a sticky! It's just one idea, maybe it will help or maybe not, but check it out:

www.dance.net . . .

Keep on dancing everyone!

I know exactly how you feel. I'm currently taking classes with more advanced dancers and I feel lost a lot of times.

But, as ballerina_hu said, ballet has a large number of specifc steps.
A ballet dancer (hopefully) learns all the steps and, then, is capable of dancing anything that combines some of them.
During center, a teacher chooses a few to work on. Most of them have been practiced during bar, but, when there's a new step, the teacher do break it down and explain.
I remeber my teachers saying "let's work on turns" and we would have several combinations with turns... for a few weeks.
But the thing is... in an advanced class, a teacher should be able to just "sing" the combination and the dancers should be able to understand it. They already know the steps, they just need to remember the order created by the teacher.

But, of course, in a beginners class, everything must go slowly. The teacher should explain each step. Repet it for a few classes and, the next time she puts it in combinations, everybody will know what it is about and won't need another explanation.

What's wrong in your class (aparentely) is that the teacher is already assuming you are familiar with all the steps. You will never be able to understand them if you don't get to do them slowly once. Don't be afraid to ask when you don't know how to do something. I do it all the time. Even when everyone else is already waiting for the music to start dancing.

But, believe me, soon you will be able to get those combinations quickly and dance during center like you do in hip hop!

I have that problem too, but our teachers explains it very good, and use the terms. It is not like the teacher on wednesday who was like "You doing *insert term*, then this, this and this..." Err, "this"...what?

I think it is easier for a lot of people when they are told the proper terms. Of course the students have to learn it at home...it is logically more difficult if you don't speak french.
It sure helps to write the combos down and learn the terms, even if it is a step, which hasn't been teached yet. You know at least how it should look like. I doen't take that much time to have a diary, even for an adult.

I adult beginner class, the teacher should also think about that the students may have had a long day of concentration behind them, as most classes are in the evening. They are not professionals who can use all of their amount of concentration for dancing. I have class on friday, pretty late 8 pm, and before that I have a four hour practical course in plantphysiology, and after calculating sooo many things...my brain is really sore *g*

Sounds like I lucked out! (OK, I already knew that, but lucked out in yet another way...) My class has been doing exactly what MasterPuppeteer wants - there are two combinations for the centre, and we've been going over them for the last 6 weeks (and looks like we might be doing them until spring!). When I get home I actually remember all of one, and bits of the second one, and this is my first set of classes. Probably helps that they're Gr. 2 combinations, as well as the repetition!

Now, if I could only get some of the actual *motion* to be automatic, then I might be able to put my knowledge of the combination to use! So far I start thinking about my arm position, or how big my steps are, and I mess myself all up .

Thank God other people are in the same boat as me too! I'm 4 classes into ballet and asked wether it was beginner, absolute beginners, never done any before in my life beginners and they asured me it was. i get into class and a lot of the girls have studied before or have been doing it for years and it moves very fast i'm always forgetting the steps and i feel like everyone's watching me. i'll come home and youtube what i can remember the names of but i worry im hot learning it right.

best thing i've found is dont watch other people! just think in your head what she said and dont get distracted by other girls!

i'm off to read that sticky now...

I know i've talked about this elsewhere before but i was a late starter in ballt (not an adult when i started, but a teenager) and i got thrown into the Intermediate level (RAD) classes and i learnt every step of ballet from copying the other dancers. I didn't know anything more then plie, and tendu when i entered that class. It took 6 months of Exam syllabus classes and many open classes (we do exam and open classes) before i even begun to be able to wrap me head around half of the movements. It wasn't until the end of the year that i was able to put names to step and begin to figure things out by myself. And it wasn't until the end of that first year that i was able to walk out of a class feeling like i actually succesfully completed a class. It as a frustrating year all round. BUt honestly i wouldn't do it any other way if i had the chance to go back and do it over. I learnt so many important lessons during that year. I learnt a range of steps that would take many people years to learn, i had a crash course in french dance terms and i learn the most valuable lesson in a dancers life: How to dance intelligently and learn to put steps together, and how to remember them long term. Now as a dancer i have one of the quickest memories out of my studio dancers. Because i was in a position of being forced to learn a lot of things quickly i developed a quick, longterm memory and i have the capibility of picking up entire ballets (like everyones parts) within the space of one or two rehershals whilst many struggle to remember even their own parts. That is a great gift! SO whilst it seems difficult and frustrating now it pays off in the end!

Also i've spent the past two years taking the adult beginner ballet classes at my studio (i wanted extra classes they were a good option) and i've noticed two things in those classes. Class with teacher A is the class where everything is broken down step by step, things are gone over slowly and repeated over and over until the majority of the class is comfortable dancing it. It is an easy well explained class. Class with teacher B is way more itense, it is explained how to do a new step once, and practiced twice. After that it is considered to be in the class reportaire and will be included in combonations. It is a fast paced open class, a combination is thrown out and marked, you dance it twice we move on. Both of these classes these classes started at the begining of this year with adult beginer dancers who had little or no knowledge about ballet. After being in and watching the development of these dancers over this year i have come to notice something. Dancers in class with teacher A are far below the technical level of Dancers in class with Teacher B. The dancers in B have a greater knowledge of dance steps, they have better developed technique and are more capable of actually dancing (not just learning and repeating) because they have been forced to learn to dance. They actually no longer look like a beginners class and could almost pass as intermediate dancers. But the dancers in class A are in comparision doing quite poorly. Their technique is nowhere near the same place. They do not understand how to truly dance, and it takes hem 5-8 tries to get what class B would see as a simple combination. And their knowledge of dance steps is far less developed. They still look and dance like begginers with a small amount of experience.

ALl that to say that whilst breaking things down and going over them again and again until you are 100% comfortable with it may make you feel less confused when you leave class, but in reality your dance development will be much slower then if you are in a fast paced class (which is hard to begin with but within 6months-a year you will be comfortable with it, and far more developed as a dancer). Personally i think the second option is probably the best in terms of actual dance development. BUt hey it's a personal preference i guess.

From what people have written it is obvious there are benefits to both ways of teaching choreography.

For a beginner of any age I can't see any benefit to just staggering through an approximation of steps in combinations which go too fast to pick up. This will engrain BAD habits and maybe even lead to injury. The main idea behind center work is to learn to do the steps correctly in combinations and without the aid of the barre.

Later, though, I can see teaching some combinations more quickly so as to "push the envelope" and challenge the student to learn choreography faster. This is a separate objective. It is sort of like music training in which you need to both: A. practice many exercises over and over to perfection and B. practice sight-reading where you see the music for the first time and play the whole thing reasonably well. As others have mentioned, a professional dancer will need to see a combination only a time or two and have it memorized.

Although many students who began as adults won't ever feel a need to do the "sight reading" exercise, a few could occasionally enjoy the challenge. It is nice to see a musical number on a DVD, think, "Hey, I could do that bit!", rewind and be able to do it along with the video.

Angelos: I totally and completely see your point! I've expanded on this over on my blog. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

masterpuppeteer.wordpress.com

Wow I’m glad i could help shed a different light on the issue!

Also may i just say i absolutely love your blog and enjoy reading it immensely (been following for a while now)

Aw, thanks Angelos!

That was a really interesting post, and since I also have two classes, one like A and one like B I really appreciate it. I do the A class so that I can work on technique and the B class exactly because it is more challenging, but very frustrating, so your comments are very encouraging. Thanks!!