i get frusterated at competion, i think there are too many catagoreies. wheni competed you won if you were good, but now it is like they want everyone to win, i know this sounds harsh, but come on really

Comps are not like this in Australia. There is one 1st place, one 2nd and one 3rd and thats it. The vast majority of people come no where and it isnt an issue.

BUGGER ddn ate my post

Ok, what I said before was "

GRRRRR

fine. LESS THAN THREE AUSTRALIA!!! LESS THAN THREE AUSTRALIA! IF there are any teachers out there that share my pseudo-nerdiness, you rock. And you will understand what just happened.

Here in Australia, judging goes "1st, 2nd, 3rd, Highly Commended". No places "have" to be awarded - in fact, I've seen several sections where competitors only received HC's because the adjudicator didn't believe anyone was at a level to receive anything higher. This decision was not contested and was not considered unreasonable.

50% of the soloists I've known starting solo eisteddfod never come back after their first one, because it's hard. You're at the top of your studio, you get so much praise, you work hard, and then... you don't get anything! Just because you've been the big fish in the small pond doesn't guarentee you anything. It's a huge ego-kick.

Those that go on to do well over here possess natural talent, drive, and perception. You take the no-wins. You take the no-places. You pore over the adjudicator's constructive criticism and it is THERE that you learn what you need to work on. You go back to the dance studio and train, and train, and train. Maybe after that you still won't place, but you'll have a better mark and you'll know you improved. You keep going, and if you're lucky, you'll get into the big league. But even then, you go back to the adjudication report. In my studio the importance was totally on us and how our personal progress was going. We completely understood the occasional superficiality of the placing progress.

Of my eisteddfod group, the bunch of us that continued to major level competition have all gone on to dance professionally. Rather than being detrimental, our eisteddfod years were a huge asset to us as the technical and stylistic requirements were exactly the same as that expected of pre-pro/pro dancers. We also learnt to take the knocks and losses and accept it as part of a journey, and to continue working hard, no matter what. This is a competing ethic I would like passed on to my students.

I have a few 3rd's and HC's I treasure higher than the 1st's I've gotten, because I know they were the times I competed against the really tough crowds.

I too am from Australia - though I am from the West...Here we have 1st, 2nd, 3rd and honourable mention...Some competitions also have special mention which comes after HM and is a certificate...Often there are between 15 and 20 in a section and sometimes between 20 and 30 and there are still only these awards given...I too have seen a judge only give lower placings because they didn't feel anyone was worthy of winning...I think that it is good that it is done this way because it teaches the students to be as gracious in defeat as they are in winning and encourages them to work harder towards the goal of getting a prize...It also encourages them to worker harder in the classroom because it is in no way guaranteed that just because you compete you will get something...Many many students go away from competitions with only their critique sheet yet most are happy simply with the fact that they got to perform on stage and had a great time doing it.

Im from australia, front he south. we too have only 1st, 2nd and 3rd placings, as well as HM's. I've seen adjudicators give out only HM's, or give a 1st and a 3rd, or a 2nd and a 3rd only, etc. A lot of people come away with nothing. This is how you learn, and get the drive to do better.

Another difference is (where im from), we have one adjudicator, and one "scribbler."

Ooh, that's the same where I am too, even at the biggest competitions. Only having one adjudicator can make it more subjective, but it makes it easier to have an 'expert' of that category. I've only had one adjudicator in my lifetime that hadn't had extensive experience in the dance form being judged (tap) - there were LOADS of complaint letters flying! It never happened again

They want everyone to win because its a moneymaker. If they keep awarding the highest scores out, the studio's will want to keep returning, therefore giving them more and more money. Then there is the unfortunate fact that some SO's will choose a specific competition knowing they will score well, so that the students will continue to stay on the competitive team therefore making money for the studio. Competition has money, studio gets money, students get big trophies...everyone is happy. I personally hate that every dance gets a gold or platinum score, it makes the kids think they have nothing to work for anymore.

DancingDiva736 wrote:

They want everyone to win because its a moneymaker. If they keep awarding the highest scores out, the studio's will want to keep returning, therefore giving them more and more money. Then there is the unfortunate fact that some SO's will choose a specific competition knowing they will score well, so that the students will continue to stay on the competitive team therefore making money for the studio. Competition has money, studio gets money, students get big trophies...everyone is happy. I personally hate that every dance gets a gold or platinum score, it makes the kids think they have nothing to work for anymore.

This is why, as I grow my new business, I am refusing to participate in the Comp circuit. When it turns into a giant machine and loses the integrity....what's the point? The kids come away with the delusion that they are far better than they are.

When I took my kids to Comps, we would also go to BDC at the end of the year. They may have won "Outstanding blah blah blah" in their category, but when they get into an advanced class with the big guns, it brings reality squarely where it needs to be.

My sister runs a huge Comp school and has several Platinum dancers. Better bet they can hike those little legs up into the air for the all too popular pitched standing straddle thing that EVERY comp kid must master. But when she'd bring them to NYC and put them into a class....a WHOLE different story would be told.

I'm not an advocate of sugarcoating reality just so that I can profit and I find it hard to support businesses that operate with the bottom line as their main goal.

EDUCATION is my main goal.

The other thing I, I use to hate when I was teaching, was that the girls expected to get gold or diamond. They were mad with silver or bronze... Oh well, you get what you put into the dance, I really don't remember seeing diamond performances in class the week before, so why would you get a diamond when you go up on stage... Sometimes they needed a reality check!!!

I think it is great to allow everyone to place in the smaller competitions, then it is more like a competition between you and only you. I mean if you got a 83 at the last competition and only got a silver, work extra hard next time and you might pump that up to an 86 and a gold.

Plus giving out medals to everyone is a great self esteem booster to the younger ones, who are oblivious to the rest of the world.

coastdancecenter wrote:

My sister runs a huge Comp school and has several Platinum dancers. Better bet they can hike those little legs up into the air for the all too popular pitched standing straddle thing that EVERY comp kid must master. But when she'd bring them to NYC and put them into a class....a WHOLE different story would be told.

Here's an aside question for you. Do your different philosophies cause tension between you and your sister?

^^^^^ When we were very young, we ran a studio together. We almost killed each other. Ha! We aren't incredibly close any more. We haven't lived in the same state for almost 20 years.

We both realize we have very different visions for our businesses. It's hard for us to get advice from the other because our philosophies on our biz and our lives in general are very divergent. We agree on "universal truths" like "parents are annoying". Hahaha.

We don't really argue our different views. We just agree to disagree. When my mom calls and tells me that she's busy making my sister 30 giant Vegas style feather headpieces for this years Comps, I just say "that sounds fabulous".

So the answer is - it doesn't cause much tension, because we aren't very close.

Well, its nice to hear that your parents raised independent, individual women!! I'm sorry to hear that you're not that close, but then again, every family is different.

I would have to agree most closely with coastdancecenter's point of view though. I don't see anything REAL in teaching kids the same robotic moves, and the same routines recycled in different orders, with different tricks.

There have been many threads on this out there...but they all come down to the same thing. You need to look out there for the competition that suits your studio and philosophy. For example, we will never go to Showstopper again...because we aren't a cookie cutter studio. We are much more artistic in nature. I'm not saying that the girls that do well at such a competition aren't good dancers...just saying that it isn't the style of competition that we are going to feel good at.

Now, with saying that, I don't mean that we must win lots of awards either. I would much rather take my students somewhere and get constructive criticism that both backs everything I tell them on a weekly basis, but also gives me things to work on. I would rather be able to take them to a dance class anywhere, with any style, and watch them be able to try it, REALLY TRY IT, and do decent at it.

Versatility, to me, is much more important than any Platinum award.

DancerTonite and Coastdancecenter raise very good points and I share the same way of thinking. However, we also need to remember that these are kids...some of those groups haven't been dancing since age 2 nor have they had the resources to be able to train at a very high level. Those groups work very hard and I believe they should come away with something, which is why spirit awards and honorable mentions are the competitions that some people should attend. I agree...go for the competition, if you're gonna compete, that BEST suits what you want your kids to strive for. I teach versatility and stress to my students that doing 15 turns at competition doesn't match being able to keep up in an advanced class at studio.

As mentioned before, competition is a business. It's about making money for that company and the studios. More categories means more entries. It shouldn't be better or best, but can a pointe dancer come down from those toes and compete in hip hop..now that I would love to see at a competition!

ChiLBoogie wrote:

It shouldn't be better or best, but can a pointe dancer come down from those toes and compete in hip hop..now that I would love to see at a competition!

That describes me back when I was a dancer-I can remember at one competition changing from my pointe costume to my hip hop costume!

Anyway, I agree with everything on the board. Its unfortunate that competitions are running the way they are, but whats worse is our studio's are still attending them and allowing them to continue to run this way. Hopefully sometime in the future we will get some good competitions that judge fairly and score the routines based on what they deserve, not based on sugar coating the situation to ensure more money comes back next year.