I recently returned from two competitions that were back to back. I must admit I was impressed with several routines that I saw but I was also disappointed in the amount of the "same" routines that I saw as well. Why is it that "jazz" routines now look like "lyrical" routines? I don't see any difference. Now when my dancers dance a "jazz" routine there is no comparison, we stick out.Why you may ask is there no comparison, because my students are doing "old school jazz - broadway style" but now a days everything is "lyrcial style" looking which makes competitions feel so long and boring. I love lyrcial and several routines are done so well and some not so well, but there is no substance in some of these routines. What has happened to transitions from steps to steps, movement across the floor? So much dancing now is repetative. Example: Chainee turn, triple pirouette, axel turn, drop to the floor roll around, get up, leap, (done over and over) There is strictly turn after turn with a few leaps thrown in. Nothing else, why? And then, you would think that if my dancers are doing similar moves (turns, leaps) but in a different type of dance (broadway v. lyrical) it would be ok, but I feel at times, I am judged differently because I don't look like everyone else.

Now, I am not saying that my dancers are "awesome." Oh no.. I have dancers that are far from that, but I have a few that can hold their own and I am really disappointed in their placement at competitions because they did everything that everyone else did but in a different type of style. What is wrong with that? Then here is the "critque tapes" issue, nothing is stated that we can fix. All of the comments are awesome this, great potential, great power, love the showmanship, looks so relaxed...ok people why did she get a 2nd/3rd. I understand that critques have to be positive but they have to have a reason for giving them a lower score then the other dancers, explain why so that we can target that issue and fix it. What am I missing, as a teacher I am so frustrated. I get so frustrated at times, I question if I am holding my dancers back because I don't fall into the "look like everyone else" category.

What do you think, am I just overthinking the situation? Again, please let me say, I have nothing against lyrical, its a wonderful style/type of dancing to watch but should all dancing (jazz/lyrical) look the same? What am I missing?

Thanks for any help!

I haven't been to a competition in a while but the last one I went to I found myself longing for a simple piece of work that didn't include the same steps and tricks enthusiastically rearranged but ending up looking the same anyway. I don't really have any insight for you but I understand your frustration from other fellow teachers who share your experience

There is an overwhelming amount of "fusion" happening between genres. This has been prevalent for a number of years. Jazz in it's old-school form is not really present as much. I've been teaching for years and used to teach a very Frank Hatchett style of jazz. Nowadays my jazz has much more of a hip-hop flavor and I would call it more "jazz-funk". My lyrical is sometimes "pure", but sometimes borders on Contemporary.

If you go to any of the professional studios, it's hard to find pure anything. Many of the classes sport a million different names as well. And within each style there are a million variations to the way each teacher choreographs. Lots of diversity.

The problem with the Comp circuit is that many schools go year after year and see each others work and use it as a benchmark for creating. It becomes choreographically very insular. This is why you get the same tricks, turns, etc, year after year.

I wouldn't sell out to the fads. Try to strengthen your dancers core technique and continue to bring something different to the table.

Be selective about the Comps you attend. We used to compete with NYCDA and the critique tapes were invaluable. We have pro corrections from Rhonda Miller, Dan Karaty, Andy Blankenbueller, etc. They were positive but also gave extremely helpful constructive criticism to the dancers and myself as the choreographer. I LOVED the tapes. It's actually the primary reason I would take them to Comps. I wanted pro input.

Look around for other Comps. It might help your dancers grow.

terpsidance wrote:

I haven't been to a competition in a while but the last one I went to I found myself longing for a simple piece of work that didn't include the same steps and tricks enthusiastically rearranged but ending up looking the same anyway. I don't really have any insight for you but I understand your frustration from other fellow teachers who share your experience

So true... Every style has been fused with another. Trick after Trick, is not dancing to me.
Im not putting these dancers down... they are very clever, and have put a lot of hard work into learning their tricks.

With more substance, less repetition, originality, strong technique and true styles would make for some awesome comps.

Dont give up on your kids... or your style, keep true to you.

You guys are so right. And I feel terrible because my dancers that can hold their own and do just the same as everyone else is doing....get third place metals because their parents didn't build a freaking musical set for a 4 minute dance.

Not saying third place is bad....but it does discourage them.

When I look at the American clips on youtube what strikes me is the amount of times I only see a child turn one way, or develope or kick with one leg.
"Yes we all know that you can turn like a top to the right, however, can you even do one turn to the left, cos we haven't seen one yet in your dance. And, yes your right leg is very loose, OMG there it goes again, so what about the left leg? You do have one you know."
I know we all need to see the best that dancers can do, but a one legged dancer is no use to any choreographer.

I recently read something interesting that Sonya Tayeh said about creating her original style of Contemporary. She says she doesn't watch a lot of dance. She gets her ideas from Super Heroes and comic books. Very outside of the box.

I think it's helpful, when creating, to NOT look at what everyone else is doing. That's why Comps can get so long. Sometimes it feels like it's just one VERY long dance that never ends.

I won't go to Comps any longer precisely because of the cookie-cutterness of it. I am fortunate enough to now be in a Metro area and I can take my kids to LA for CLASS! Then they can experience choreo without even one of those flippin' tilts!!

I feel for the adjudicators that have to watch each dance with a fresh eye and try to critique the 90th dance that looked just like the first one of the day.

I personally can't watch too many Comp dances because I eventually feel like my head is going to pop off.

I agree with the original poster. I'm a jazzy-jazz type of person and don't get the whole lyrical as jazz thing.
And I can't stand all of the flexed feet!! I saw a group doing fuette turns with flexed feet. Do you know how bad it looks with a flexed foot in passe?!?!

Why would you need to turn to the left?

So much great imput from everyone...I LOVE IT...I also enjoy everyone's comments. Because it seems I am not the only one that sees what is going on at comps. I can read the frustration in everyone's posts which is mutually felt. At least by having people feel the same, I feel like I doing ok...I won't give in to changing my ways because that is my "flavor" its who I am and if the judges don't appreciate something different after watching soooo much of the same thing, then I guess they are missing out.

But again, keep the comments coming, love to hear the frustration is mutual.

coastdancecenter wrote:

Be selective about the Comps you attend. We used to compete with NYCDA and the critique tapes were invaluable. We have pro corrections from Rhonda Miller, Dan Karaty, Andy Blankenbueller, etc. They were positive but also gave extremely helpful constructive criticism to the dancers and myself as the choreographer. I LOVED the tapes. It's actually the primary reason I would take them to Comps. I wanted pro input.

Ditto and can I just say I *love* Rhonda Miller and I was so disappointed when she stopped judging for Encore. For my soloists I've completely given up on trying to place - instead I give them a dance that has at least two or three challenges for the dancer. For instance I had an 11 yr old dancer last year who I set Tori Amos' "Amazing Grace" on and a lot of the movement was very suited to my dancer, working her strengths but she had three challenge steps (a left grand rond de jambe into a penche, a right switch leap, and a right triple pirouette). The dance was beautiful and those were the only "tricks" and sure enough by the end of the season she had a solid switch leap, a solid triple pirouette, and a better (though still shaky) penche. Another dancer in her ballet solo had been nailing her right doubles in class but just couldn't get them on the left so I put a left double pirouette in her solo. She *hated* it and couldn't land it once in competition but sure enough this year she can do her left doubles. She didn't place high but frankly I was happy with her performance and the fact that it challenged her to push beyond a step she initially couldn't do.

For me and my kids it's just another opportunity to perform.

Sumayah wrote:

She didn't place high but frankly I was happy with her performance and the fact that it challenged her to push beyond a step she initially couldn't do.

For me and my kids it's just another opportunity to perform.

I like the way you approach it. Because all it is, at the end of the day, is another learning experience for your dancers.

That was precisely how I looked at Comps. We weren't there to rule the world. We were there to grow.

^^^ Thank you!

"Why would you need to turn to the left?"

Is this a serious question?!?

Well, you'd need to turn to the left to be a well-rounded dancer and because if if you dance professionally you are most likely going to be exposed to choreography that would require you to turn left.

It drives me nuts to see "lopsided dancers" I worked with a teacher who never reversed combos in her jazz classes because it was too hard for the kids, and she hated reversing things when she was young...REALLY!!! What happens when you come to the point in a dance when you want to do a pirouette but you've just stepped into a lunge with your right foot that gives the perfect, seamless prep into an inside left pirouette!

It drives me nuts to see dance after dance with nothing but tricks! With no "dancing" and "performing" the dances all look the same. But, when one studio enters over 200 dances in competitions ever weekend, I guess you don't have time to be original!

I wasn't being serious. I was being very tongue in cheek. Sorry. I thought it was such an obvious statement.

shmcdona wrote:

Why would you need to turn to the left?

LMAO!!!

Im from Australia, and luckily where I am we dont have issues like this with competition. Virtually every school uses a dance syllabus and takes exams. Competitions are important, but not a major thing where im from. The dancers are all well rounded and actually dance in their routines. Only the most advanced ever do quad pirouettes or switch leaps. And you never see a child doing this.

When i watch american dance competitions on you tube, i am shocked at such skill. But i never see any true dancing. Surely the students can dance, not just perform tricks? I always ownder how they would go in a jazz syllabus, where you really have to dance not just perform tricks.

If you care about artistry, prepare to be contantly disappointed at competitions. Sorry that sounds negative but it's true. If you stand by what you do, just enjoy watching your students perform. The competition circuit is one big cheese-fest and often is fixed based on what studio brought the most students. I used to be as vehement and shocked as you are but through the years it's become so boring to complain about it...nothing changes.

Ask any successful professional dancer about competitions. No one puts much stock in it in the real world.

leapjumpturn wrote:

Ask any successful professional dancer about competitions. No one puts much stock in it in the real world.

I have brought this point up several times as well. I have had conversations with many Master teachers and they unilaterally express the dangers of cookiecutter-ness in Comps.

I believe it was last season on SYTYCD that in the first couple of weeks they eliminated a dancer after his solo because it was too "Comp-like". Mia Michaels blasted the poor kid (who was a lovely technician) and said "too many tricks...no dancing" and poof he was gone.

There are the elite few that benefit from the circuit professionally, but they come from the nations top schools (Denise Wall / The Gold School) and they are artistically trained in their studios. These kids utilize the circuit as a resume builder and a networking tool. They are able to get scholarships and assist the Andy Blankenbueller's and the Dan Karaty's. Those dancers make wonderful inroads into the industry via Comps. But as I mentioned, they are superbly trained. Look at The Gold Schools choreography. ART. PERIOD.

Here's one of their dances on youtube. Tricks? What tricks? They don't need them. They're dancing.

www.youtube.com . . .

Now that was dancing, there was expression (not just cheesy grins) there was musical phrasing being used, extensions, not just legs up past your ears, the feet where being articulated through properly. I could go on and on and on, as I'm sure we all could.
Some of the routines I've watched if you put them on a race track and gave the dancers hurdles to jump over they wouldn't look out of place.
I was always taught that as dancers we have artistry and emotion, thats what set us apart from athletes and being able to turn 32 foutees (on the right ) at the age of 12 does not make you a good dancer, there's a lot more to it than that.

Here's another one just because I am a wicked fan of Rennie's work and his artistic integrity. I used to send my kids to his summer workshops each year, because he pretty much sets the bar for me...


www.youtube.com . . .

Thank you for posting those pieces from rennie. Im a purist when it comes to dancing. Sure I wanna see flash and glitz when I see a broadway show but its raw emotion I crave really. I try to train my dancers on a technical level and an emotional level. Sure they can jump and turn but I would never choreograph a dance full of "tricks". Now a days its so full filling and exciting to see choreography at comps that is well choreographed and actually makes you feel something...not just "Man she/he's a bendy toy".

this clip has no volume but i love this school and choreographer: www.youtube.com . . .

Chepyl wrote:



It drives me nuts to see dance after dance with nothing but tricks! With no "dancing" and "performing" the dances all look the same. But, when one studio enters over 200 dances in competitions ever weekend, I guess you don't have time to be original!

YOU SAID IT SISTER, AMEN!!