So as you all know I went to a competition and convention this weekend with my students. It was fun and I learned so so so much buuuutttt I was really frustrated. I watch competitions while I'm not getting my students ready and since we went to this same comp/conv last year I remembered some of the dancers from the other studios from last year. WELL. I saw this girl walking around in her costume and it was a very unique costume that I rememberd from last year. I remembered the dancer too because she was VERY talented and was picked out by the convention teacher multiple times during the convention. I shrugged it off because I thought that maybe she couldn't afford a new costume and just wore the same one twice. BUT THEN, me and a dance mom were walking down the hallway and we heard this song playing. IT WAS HER SONG FROM LAST YEAR! THe reason I remember this is because it was a really rare song that i absolutely loved and went home and downloaded.

So, we went in the auditorium and there she was, performing the exact same song, same choreo, same costume as last year. Let me also mention that she won 2nd place overall in the solo competition BOTH YEARS IN A ROW.

I really debated whether I should have said something or not but I was pretty irritated. But, I guess that everyone could win 2nd overall when they do a dance for two years!

Tell me what you think. Should I have said something? SOrry so long.

If it was the same competition, then yes, I think it was wrong. Probably not against the rules, but still not right.

If it was a different competition then I see no problem with it.

This isn't unusual. I notice plenty of schools repeating dances year after year as their dancers get better and better at performing it. They don't care, the parents don't care and usually they are wildly successful.

It's a competition, not Broadway. I can't stomach caring so much about comps anymore. Between the scoring, lack of dancing, endless tricks, judges who aren't making helpful comments, I mean the list goes on of the wacky stuff going on at comps...where do you even begin? Just chalk it up to typical competition shenanigans.

Many comps have rules about repeating a number stating that if you win 1st overall you can't repeat the number at another comp that year in a different location.

I've seen one song done: tap, 4 people; tap, HUGE production number; jazz (more contemporary) 12 people; hip hop 14 people. In fact, the same studio has done this on more than one occasion with a song. I know one of the top studios in the country does a huge production number and the following year it's a duo, for example. This happens more than you'd think.

If a number is choreographed late in the season and is only done once I'll compete it the following year but not at that same comp that it competed at.

I guess this is because of the cultural difference between Australia and the US, but here, it's totally normal to do the same solo routine until you grow out of it. Part of that is because there are so few competitions that most dancers might only go to one, two or three a year. Growing up, there was only ever one for me to go to. It made more sense to use the same costume for two or three subsequent years and make small adjustments to the choreography for added difficulty rather than shelling so much money for new routines (and the private lessons in which to teach them) and new costumes every year when they were only used once. Considering I used to do three tap solos, a tap championship, a jazz solo, a cabaret solo, a song & dance solo and a song & dance championship ever year, that would be a BIG cost. I always got new championship routines (because they needed to be spot on for the current skills level) but we staggered the replacement of other routines.

Helen

I know a couple dancers who kept the same solo for a few years running. One had a lovely lyrical and the first year she performed it was her first year competing a lyrical and it did well. She chose to keep the dance but upgrade the choreography, making certain sections more difficult and the second year it was just as beautiful and she did about as well, but for her it was more a learning situation. She took what she had and knew and furthered the challenge by pushing her technique instead of learning something all new.

Another was a duet and they did a lot of swing partnering. The first year they got tangled on stage during some of the quick areas, the second year they nailed it and walked away with a sense of accomplishment for finally getting all the quick areas. The first year they scored poorly, the second they walked away with a high score.

Maybe the soloist changed something in the dance. Maybe they couldn't afford to hire out a choreographer for a new solo. Perhaps she did it because, if it worked well that time it'll work this time too. You never really know unless you ask. I prefer to see talented kids push themselves year to year with new choreography however I can see the merit of holding onto a solo until you finally *get* the thing you couldn't before.

It happens all the time, especially for comp dances. I don't so much have a problem with passing the choreography down to the next group of upcoming students, but I don't care too much for the same group repeating dances year after year. There is a studio by us that used to do that all the time(I don't know if they still do.) I actually can remember seeing them at competition when I was a dancer, and then seeing the same routine, same costumes-everything-a few years later when I had students there as a teacher.

Most competitions will allow you to repeat choreography. Typically the rule is that if you attend their nationals and get a certain score(some it is gold, some is placing overall) then you aren't allowed to take that routine back the next year. For me, I always got bored with the choreography by the end of one year and never wanted to do it a second year, but I suppose to some people it's better to win than it is to learn something new.

The studio I used to go to when I was younger, we could take our solos two years in a row. I think sometimes we did the same competition, but nobody ever said anything to us. I never did the same solo twice, I think most people are ready for a new one after a full year?? I know I always was.

Doing it for one or two years is okay in my opinion. You do it the first year to see how it goes, then perfect it for the following year.

I have a former student who has been doing the same solos I taught her when she was 12/13. She's 17 now. I think that's sad... especially since the mother keeps telling me in hateful emails how much better she is without me and how much she has progressed. I have a newsflash for the mom...

Like glitterfairy I am in Australia and here it is more unusual to not keep a routine for two years...Most studios it is pretty much expected that unless you totally outgrow it you will keep a solo routine for two years and then change it...I find that I will choreograph it for them to 'grow in to' so to speak...Not by making it age inappropriate music or costume wise or anything but with the degree of difficulty...So I may have a section where I would like to put a double jete but the student may not be confident with it yet...So the first year I would leave it as a normal jete but get them to practice on the double to use it the second year...It is considered completely normal over here...There are only a few comps available to attend each year so the same routines get used again at the same competitions.

I can see how it would be annoying.....

I will put a different spin on it...I do baton twirling - rec and competition programs.

For one of the organizations (completely public/private school programs only-middle/high school twirl teams) repeating of routines would be a huge no no. Every year - new program, sometimes new kids, new choreo, new costumes.

For the other organizations that I have my studio compete in - the repeating of routines is completely normal. Most studio/teams don't repeat it more than 2 years. And solo routines to music(b/c there are different types of solo routines in baton that aren't to music with a theme-but wont go into that)...usually the twirler uses these routines from 1-3yrs. Most routines are designed for the student in that age bracket.
Age divisions are divided by 7-9, 10-12, 13-15, 16+ so most kids keep a routine until they age out to the next division.

I can see why a dance soloists would re-use a dance(hopefully adding to the choreography) the cost of choreographers, costumes, music edits etc.

I guess if she isn't breaking any rules - then she can. I think to aren't there different rules for different comps? This is not the case in baton - we have different organizations that different rules - and most twirlers belong to one specific organization and compete in just those comps - so rules are straight across the board.

If it's at the same competition, I don't think that's cool, although there are usually no strict rules against repeating dances, unless it's a dance that won a national title or something.

However, I'm not totally against repeating a dance. We're doing a new competition this year, and I'm also a dancer as well as a teacher (this is my last year slipping through the age gaps- I'm 21, but only 20 by competition rules, because I missed the age cutoff by 2 days.) and I have a contemporary solo that I did last year that is still my favorite dance to date. I'm bringing it back this year for the new competition, but only for the new competition. I'm not redoing it at any other one, because the rest of the comps are ones we did last year and I don't agree with repeating dances at the same comp.

I guess the reason I'm so irritated is because this year she did TWO solos (meaning she obviously had money to pay a choreographer) AND then she won TWO awards in both years for the dance. Taking it away from someone else who could have won. I guess I could see if she took it to different competitions, or if she did bad one year and wanted to improve, but her dance was already flawless. It was breathtakingly amazing and the song/costume/and chore were all amazing (hence the reason why she won overall awards).

I don't see the problem with repeating a solo for another year. I do keep a few solos for a second year if I feel the dancer did not fully achieve their highest potential in the first year and can really go further with it. I usually make the dance harder and they do get a new solo as well to work on.

I do know, however, of a few schools that enter the dancer that is repeating their dance at the age that they originally learned it! Meaning they learned the dance at age 8 but will be 10 by the time she dances. NOT COOL!

There are some comps where you have to do two solos to get a special award. Hall of Fame you have to do two just to be considered to be inducted. Star Systems if you want a Title then you can do your solo but then that solo cant place in the high score category perhaps this girl was doing two solos for one of these reasons...

I really don't see the issue either way, but for the people who have said it's wrong if its the same competition... just because the name is the same doesnt really mean anything. There are some competitions we've gone to more than 5 years in a row and never had the same set of judges. There are even competitions that come to our area twice per season and there are plenty of studios that go both times. There's a lot of other factors involved too.

Whats wrong with it? As Oz_helen says in Australia this is the norm. In fact not repeating dances is rare. Pretty much every studio will keep competing dances for at least 2 years, yes at the same competitions. It may be because our competition fee's are so cheap. About $10 for a group dance (so if you have 20 students in your dance it works out to 50 cents per dancer). Because of that studio's often take many, many routines to competition. The idea of recoreographing and recostuming ALL those routines every year would be too much.

Many studio's go long past that and do routines for years and years. I have seen many routines done by a studio for over a decade. They just pass the costumes and coreography along to younger kids as older ones move on. Again its normal, many studio's have a 'signature' routine like this. Usually a good one that is associated with the studio.

I personally think not repeating dances is unfair, by their second year with a routine the kids are really owning it and its looking incredible, they are still doing new ones as well but is it nessesary to replace all routines every year.

If she had all that time to go over the judges notes, you would think that the girl would have gotten better than second overall, you know, like FIRST!

A student at our studio competed the same pointe solo two years in a row at the same competition. I would normally disagree with dancers repeating routines, but in this case, I think it was acceptable. The girl was eleven years old the first year she performed the solo and was fairly new to pointe dancing. She repeated the solo the following year to improve her pointe technique, being a year older and with stronger ankles, feet, and what not. Usually I would disagree with this, but I do not think it is totally unacceptable.

DansnDiva2 wrote:

There are some competitions we've gone to more than 5 years in a row and never had the same set of judges. .

This was a competition and convention so the judges were the exact same as last year.

I've already posted my thoughts on the issue, however with regards to the judges, I really don't think it becomes more of an issue if you have the same judges from year to year. If you really think about it, imagine the number of routines they see in a weekend, and then the number of competitions they judge throughout the year AND how many of their own routines from their studio's they see. It's highly probably that they wouldn't even remember her dance from last year, let alone how they scored her. It's one thing for us as teachers to remember a dance from one year to the next(or when they are still doing it 5 years later!) but as far as the judges are concerned it's something they haven't ever seen.

I don't like repeating choreography solely because I need something new. I don't like teachers who bring the same dance to competition for years and years in a row because they know it wins every year. If I see it maybe two years in a row thats one thing, but part of the purpose we compete is growth. If there isn't room for growth anymore, it's time to retire the dance. If you have made some improvements in your technique and you want to try it out for another year, fine, whatever suits you.

another studio in my town who is one of the better studios in my state has been using the same dance routines, with small changes to choreogaphy, and same costumes for well over 20 years!!!! The routines are very good and win all the big overall awards but how many more years are they going to do the same thing???!! Of course this makes everyone think that this studio is the best because of the awards they win but what have they really learned?
I believe routines can be used over when going to different competitons but how many years is enough enough?

I think it depends on the student and the choreography. When I choreograph solos, I only put in things that the student can do well, or what I know they can progress to in a few months. So after a year, the routine becomes too easy for them. Now, if I were giving them something more difficult that did take a few years to progress to, then I could see having them repeat it at competitions.

Obviously this student already did it very well the first time. Maybe the teacher saw great improvement that she felt would help her place higher the second time. We don't know. But the bright side would be, that if all these studios are repeating dances, then we get a sneak peak a year ahead to see what our students are up against!

I have seen the same studio at nationals repeat the same routine for 4 years now. It drives me insane as soon as the music comes on! I think it must be like a prestige thing at the studio. Everyone wants to move up to the level that gets to perform it.

I think that I prefer NOT to repeat dances at the same comp, unless a student did not do so well and we worked to improve it. Personally, I would be bored and so would my students.

Let it go, it is their issue and I try not to worry about what others are doing, just do the best I can for my students and take it from there.

Honestly, I think it depends on the competition you go to.

A lot of the regional/national type competitions, I can understand where you're coming from completely. It would be easy to pick out reused routines and such.

Some of the smaller, local competitions, it doesn't seem as bad at all. There's a competition I attend that is held over 3 days, from 7am to midnight, in 3 different ballrooms, judges rotating all day. It is very common for routines to be used over again the following year. Sometimes the year after that. It is very common for dancers to do anywhere from 3-6 or more solos. In fact, to win solo titles, you need to be in a minimum of four solos. Same with duos, trios, and groups. It's hard to create four or more solos for one individual in a single year, so routines get used over in order to qualify. And this competition has been going on for over 25 years and gets over 1000 dancers a year...

So I think it just really depends on the type of competition the routine(s) are being taken to...