I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By ZandB
On 05/03/2009 06:36:52
I've posted this thread a few years back, but I thought it needed a repost... ---------- I was listening to two dancers chatting in front of me at a recent Feis (refer to my post called “Eavesdropping 101” for techniques and tips). They were discussing the various Irish tunes they had on their iPods, which were apparently glued to their ears. The gist was that they both had difficulty in finding Irish Dances tunes to download so they recorded music from various CD’s onto their iPods. Innocent enough. They went on to describe who had what CD if you wanted to make a copy and how to email copies of songs and music back and forth to each other. One implied her dance instructor (did not use the word TCRG) would loan them CDs of the music their Ceili Team was practicing so they could copy them. All this while sitting at a Feis with Irish Dance musicians playing their hearts out for them to dance and hoping maybe a few of the dancers would buy their CD’s from a vendor at the Feis. Folks, making illegal copies of music is, well, it’s illegal! And by illegal, I mean if you didn’t pay for it or get permission from the copyright owners of that music to make a copy then well, you own an illegal, pirated copy of that music. Some excuses I’ve heard are, “Well if I like the CD, I’ll go out and buy my own copy”. Or, “The musicians want us to do this, it’s marketing for them”. Or, the worst excuse of all… “Everybody is doing it” Your a dancer. How would you feel if one day, after years of work, sweat, competitions, and practice you hit the big time and made a DVD of your dancing tips and techniques only to find out that everyone is making bootleg copies of the DVD? You can't imagine how much work and effort goes into making a CD. Years of lessons, practicing, and playing for almost nothing at gigs (many supporting Irish dance schools). Have you ever chatted with a musician at an end of a Feis, their shoulders, arms and hands are literally enflamed from the soreness of playing almost none stop for nearly six to eight hours? Trust me, the musicians truly didn't spend days, weeks, or even months in the studio recording that music so you can freely swap it between friends (or for that matter, total strangers on Dance.net) No, I would think they might want you to buy their CD’s or download their music approved sites that pay them for each download. It’s what they do for a living. A lot Irish musicians have “un-reel” day time jobs and when they finally make that “first recording”; it’s usually on a small label with limited distribution. It’s their blood, sweat, tears, and dreams on that CD. If you enjoy their music enough to make illegal copies, you like them enough to buy the CD or download from a source that provides income to the musician. Think about that the next time you look them in the eye while bowing to them after dancing Hornpipe at the next Feis.
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By Snuffy
On 05/03/2009 06:58:53
Bravo! This is such an important issue. Feis musicians are few and far between (heck, I don't think they even exist in the southern hemisphere!). We need to support them, not steal from them. There are some great CDs out there, and happily there are many feis vendors and online vendors who can supply us with all kinds of wonderful tunes, just for a little cash. iTunes also has many tracks available which is most convenient for those who don't want to fork out the money for a full CD. Those musicians support our art; we need to support them too. :) Thank you, ZandB, for donating your own blood, sweat and tears to helping such an important cause.
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By PWover50
On 05/03/2009 07:47:05
I count several ID musicians as friends, and others as someone to warmly smile at after completing a competition. The music they make is beautiful, and it is the vehicle which allows us to dance to our hearts content. Next time you are considering being a music pirate, imagine your BFF sitting in that chair at the side of the stage, hour after hour, playing reel after reel for struggling beginner dancers or a magical set dance for the champion dancer ... kinda puts a whole new light on the subject of "sharing" iPod music, doesn't it? Actually, I challenge ALL of us to go out and BUY a new CD at our next competition. I'm going to do just that! Thanks for the very positive reminder that the music makes our dancing, and that we don't steal from our Irish dance musician friends :D
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By puddelilly
On 05/03/2009 09:50:07
This is especially true since so many authorized downloads are relatively inexpensive. It's not like they're asking you to pay $30 for a CD. Let's make sure we keep our musicians fed so they will play for us! After all, we are often at their mercy.
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By Rince_Dochas_Gra
On 05/03/2009 10:36:00
I understand what you all mean, and I do love the live musicians we have at the feisana! But I get all my ID music (and almost all of my other music) from our library system. I'm not buying it. They have them available to the public for free, as long as you have a library card for the district. So I just get the music I need, load onto iTunes, and then my iPod. Am I douing something wrong, even if my local libraries are letting me? Molly
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By Hop_123
On 05/03/2009 10:48:27
^I would think you ARE doing something wrong. If you borrow a book and make a copy of the book to read later, you are violating copyright laws. It would be the same for a CD or DVD. With the library, you are borrowing the actual book (CD, DVD, etc) to enjoy, while that copy is in your possesion. That particular item was paid for. Copies that are made at home were not. So you can listen to a song on your friends iPod, or on the radio, but you are not supposed to make copies of it.
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By PWover50
On 05/03/2009 12:07:10
Say, how do we go about making this a sticky under "Irish"? I think it would be a good idea.
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By BethanysMAID
On 05/03/2009 13:53:17
I agree that if we want to keep new music being created, then we need to buy copies of the CD's we like so the musicians can keep on making them. I like PWOver50's challenge of going out and buying a CD at our next feis, I usually buy one each feis as my treat to have some new music to listen to when DD is practicing! (mind you the last feis I went to I already had all the CD's for sale so maybe I have a few too many now!) If you want some inspiration as to which CD to buy you can listen to samples on our school website www.boydirishdance.com/FunJuke.htm - I have just added my more recent cd's. Technically we are not allowed to do this either but as I cut each track to one minute (too short to dance to!) and made it so they can't be downloaded I hope musicians won't mind as it is more likely to generate sales for them. Although most of the BUY links are for UK retailers, nearly all of them can be found at www.irishbutterfly.com or www.irishrecords.com for the North American dancers. (sorry don't know any Australasian stores - feel free to add!) G edit - forgot to say, if anyone knows of an online retailer for 'The Reel Stuff' please let me know as I would like to add it (mine came from Feiswear but they don't have it on their website :( )
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By Snuffy
On 05/03/2009 21:16:58
If you want some inspiration as to which CD to buy you can listen to samples on our school website www.boydirishdance.com/FunJuke.htm - I have just added my more recent cd's.
BethanysMAID, I LOVE the online iPod thingy on your school's website. It's fantastic. I know I can personally speak for it generating sales for the musicians, because I have found it incredibly helpful when it comes to deciding on which CDs I want (because I can hear a few samples), and I've even found a few of my absolute favourite tracks to dance to this way. One night while I was procrastinating, I sat there and listened to every sample you'd put up, and made a list of all the CDs I want to buy. :) I rarely go to feiseanna where CDs are available (most of the ones I attend don't have any vendors, and the last one I went to did, but I didn't see and CDs for sale), so I've decided that I'll take PWover50's challenge another way: when pay-day comes around later in the week, I'm going to order a CD from an online vendor, from my list of "Irish dance CDs that Snuffy wants". :D
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By treblejiggernaut
On 05/03/2009 22:00:12
Thank you Bethany's Maid again for that wonderful website link and for those wonderful music samples. Thanks to that site I have found some wonderful CD's to purchase. I had not checked it out in a while, so I just checked it out again and found the new additions. I am going to order The Total Irish Dance Volume 1 CD tomorrow. I loved the samples of it so I am sure the whole cd will be great. Thank you Bethany's maid for helping me find a new cd to buy.
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By lorna_doone
On 05/06/2009 18:09:16
Amen, ZandB! I am proud to say that I try to buy one CD per feis for those poor, starving musicians! ;) haha But really... don't illegally download music! It's against the law!
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By sharra
On 05/11/2009 10:34:43
I'd really recommend dancers to check out the legislation in their country of residence in order to clarify whether copies of cds that you have legal right to (aka paid the cash) are legal. In my country, legislation says that's legal. It's legal to copy cds, it's legal to turn them into mp3s, it's legal to buy mp3s online and burn them to a disk, as long as you own the music. Now, this is in a Scandinavian country, so there may be national differences. Ask any copyright organisation in your country, and they'll help.
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By Feismusician
On 05/20/2009 06:12:51
Thanks for reposting, Z&B. I think a lot of people may misunderstand how much a musician makes selling recording music. Recording a quality CD takes many months of time, and if a studio is used, thousands of dollars. When someone downloads a tune from iTunes they pay 99 cents and I make 65 cents - less than a candy bar at a feis, but it's somthing they'll have forever and it won't ruin their health (well, unless the music is coming from a hand-held, bellows-driven, free-reed aerophone). Even with the few hundred downloads/month that I get, it will take years to realize a break-even on the time spent to create it. Besides the musicians, the vendors selling the CDs also depend on people buying music to help them make a living. Since they have to buy the CDs from us, and we have to buy the CDs from the production houses, It's not as if the vendors or musicians are getting rich on Irish dance music for feis dancers. People selling soda and candy bars are making more on their investment than the musicians - should people just take the candy bars? Thanks, The Foggy Dewd
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By Snuffy
On 05/20/2009 10:20:21
^Great to get some input from an ID musician! :) (By the way, I bought a few of your tracks on iTunes last year - great stuff!) My boyfriend is a musician (not of the feis variety, no), and I'm pretty sure that none of his bands' albums have ever made a profit. I'm fairly sure that - including selling merchandise and doing gigs - they always make a loss on their music. Every time they release something, it's up on those torrent sites within a day, even though they're not huge and famous. It's bad enough to steal the music of pop stars who are already rich, but it's really biting the hand that feeds you when a musician is paying to record their music, only to have you go ahead and take it for free. {i]Especially[/i] when that musician is making music for you to dance to. My Dean Crouch CDs arrived last week while I was on holiday - it was most exciting coming home and tearing open the package and hearing those tunes on my own CD player for the first time! I bought both because I couldn't decide which one I liked better. I'm glad I bought both, because I still can't decide which one I like best, and I hope he continues to make music for us to dance to. :) That's two CDs I can remove from my list of CDs to buy (many, many more to go!).
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By ID_Addict
On 01/15/2010 07:04:03
Reading this thread made me feel very guilty and it also opened my eyes to the important issue of copyright etc. For years my teacher has been lending me CDs to copy so that I can I have the right music to practice with at home and I now have a collection of about 20 such CDs! I feel terrible now, because I have been doing this for so long without even realizing what impact this has on the musicians. =( So bassicaly I've decided to try and buy all of the CDs that I have copied over the years and as I do so I will get rid of the pirated copies. I know the damage is already done, but I figured it's never too late to set things right! I also spoke to my teacher about this issue recently and suggested that she stops lending us all CDs and rather encourages us to buy the tracks we need so that we can show these wonderfull musicians that we do appreciate their work. We don't have feis musicians here in South Africa, so we just use CDs and I have noticed that a few of the CDs used are un fact illegal copies,but htis only seems to be the case when it comes to music for Modern Sets because each dancer has to hand in their own music for their set before the competition starts. It seems that this problem has managed to spread itself into every nook and cranny without us noticing so I agree that we should all make an effort to put an end to music pirating so that our musicians can still be in the bussiness for many years to come.
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By Kirvin3
On 01/15/2010 10:58:39
I, too, have copies of CD's on my phone and computer. The thing is, I have all the CD's sitting on the rack in the living room. I buy them, then copy them onto the phone (no iPod for me yet) so I have them for practicing at the feis or when I'm not at work or class. I use the CD's at home and in the car. The only time I didn't have an actual disk in my possession was when my Top Box CD got so scratched that I couldn't use it. I bought another one. I always want a backup copy of my music. I know many musicians who have limited distribution - I attend and work at Renaissance Festivals. They also depend on the money from their recordings. Therefore, I buy music! I buy one or two CD's a year.
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By treblejiggernaut
On 03/02/2010 15:33:23
Yes, we need to remember NOT TO BUY ILLEGAL DOWNLOADS through the internet. If you find some Irish dance tunes that are for sale as downloads that are NOT through official sites like itunes, amazon or through the musicians personal web sites that sell the downloads legally don't purchase those illegal downloads. It saddens me to see things like this on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x813PuTdu5E I am guessing that the person doing this does not have the permission of the musicians and that they are not compensating the musicians either. It is horrible how someone wants to make money off someone else's hard work. I only buy cds through web sites that sell the cds or I purchase the download through amazon or itunes or I buy the cds at local feiseanna. We need to get our music legally so that the musicians are compensated for all their hard work. As Irish dancers we need to keep the musicians in business. Imagine a feiseanna without musicians -- what a horrible thing that would be :( !! Thank you Irish dance musicians for all your wonderful music and for all you contribute to the irish dance world.
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By treblejiggernaut
On 03/02/2010 15:46:14
They just changed the above youtube video to a private one. On the video they say they are selling downloads of 42 Irish dance albums.
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By Irishdancers
On 03/27/2010 21:27:44
I love having my ipod to practice. I am in my own world and everyone does not exist. I love my irish music.
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By reel_faerie85
On 03/28/2010 04:42:28
For further clarification, if you chose to upload a CD onto your computer, then burn to a blank CD and give as a gift, this is not illegal! As long as you dont ask for money for the CD you gift. Same goes with tunes that you have downloaded (as long as they are paid for via something like itunes). It is also not illegal to record something played from your stereo that you have on tape (yes some of us still do have them) to a music player such as itunes, and then onto CD (apparently there is a way to do this involving lots of electrical leads) as long as you are not selling it, and the tape was originally your property. Bit of a sticky subject really...but I would advise if you are going to get tunes to dance to, buy them either from a programme like itunes or on CD, and if you do fancy copying them, then don't distribute to the whole class.
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By Feismusician
On 03/28/2010 08:09:44
As in other things (except perhaps soda bread) Z&B is correct. It only costs 99 cents to buy a tune from iTunes or other download sites, and the musician only makes about 65 cents, often even less, depending on the service provider. It costs a lot to make a recording, not only in physical cost but in time. For less than the cost of really bad chocolate (maybe not not good stuff like Dove or Ghiradelli) you can have a nice piece of music that lasts forever. Support your local musicians - none of us are getting rich on specialized music!
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By djchara
On 03/28/2010 12:43:00
[q=ZandB]
For further clarification, if you chose to upload a CD onto your computer, then burn to a blank CD and give as a gift, this is not illegal! As long as you dont ask for money for the CD you gift.
As politely as can say it, clarieyfaerie85 your comment is misinformed and the practice you describe is illegal, but exactly why I posted this thread in the first place... there are a lot of well meaning people out there like yourself that do not completely understand copyright. Copyright isn’t about whether you charge money for making copies of your music for friends. Copyright is about whether you have [b]permission[/b] to make a copy of your music for your friends. Again, there is a quick primer called “CD Copying -The Dos and Don’ts of CD Copying and Ripping” at: http://mp3.about.com/od/digitalmusicfaq/a/cd_copying_laws.htm Please read it!![/q] yess exactly!! and claeriefaerie- think of it this way- if you for free give music to someone who otherwise would have spent money on it, you are robbing the musician of the money they would have received from that person. so yes, you are stealing. and yes, that is illegal!
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By Tokenfire
On 06/24/2010 15:28:48
Yes, ZandB is absolutely correct about copyright-for music, videos and printed materials. In order to legally use the material, you need to purchase it. Copying it as a backup for your own private use is sometimes misunderstood. When you purchase the material, you are essentially purchasing a license to use it for your personal use. You are not entitled to 'give' it to someone else to use, unless you are giving them the purchased material. I teach in a college and we were using DVDs and videos for some lectures. Copies were made as backups and in fact we learned that this was illegal. We needed to purchase each item. We could not make copies for backup. About 5 years ago, 'pirating' laws became more strict-anyone can turn you in if you are making illegal copies and distributing them. There is a steep fine and jail time if you are caught. Most kids, including dds are not aware of these laws. It is the responsibility of the parents and teachers to make the dds aware of these laws, so the kids and dds do not find themselves in an untenable situation.
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By KathyF
On 09/28/2010 16:11:06
Thank you for posting this. I'm sure many people have done this without intending to do something illegal. Thank you to all the musicians who play for hours and hours with out complaint. Dancing to live music is what makes Irish Dance so unique.
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By Reelgirl00
On 05/01/2013 19:31:22
Excellent post, ZandB! It really reminded me how much effort goes into making a CD, and although I admit to practicing to some youtube music, I will never do so again. I just need to keep better track of my CD....
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By GannTheGlorious
On 05/01/2013 19:56:37
My TC always gave a link to where we could pay for legal downloads. Which is great!
re: I dance, therefore iPod. A quick reminder on copyright.
By Reelgirl00
On 05/02/2013 19:14:35
Oh, and just a quick question, if you buy the CD and burn it onto your computer so you can transfer it to your MP3 player and yours only, is that legal?

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