Forum: Arts / Religion

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re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By Felsamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri Jun 12, 2009 01:49 AM
Out of curiosity, why does everyone say you must dress up? Are you saying someone who is in financial should not be allowed to go because they can not afford to wear the nice clothes you yourself can wear? I Do not see how what a person wears has anything to do with going to church. I am pretty sure Jesus would not go "You know, you just are not dressed right today so you can not worship. You can try again next week though."
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By popergerm
On Fri Jun 12, 2009 01:52 AM
Edited by popergerm (129319) on 2009-06-12 02:08:57 more coments to elaborate on
I agree with you, in many places there are usually nearby catholic churches where if one does not mesh with you you can go to another one where a priest jives with your style and mannorisms during the mass.

The only time I saw a priest call someone out was when a cellphone went off and he knew the person because they helped at the parish, but he would not make a scene of it he would say something to give them a public humiliation out of a joke and move on, never minded babys that screamed or anything like that.

Look a little common sence goes a long way when ettiquet goes.

as fore dressing up, you do your best, if you dont have much then you do your best to at least look decent, God understands if you are comming from work or getting ready to go there, or just got done with an athletic event, but you dont show up at church in a mini skirt and tube top or daisy duke shorts, guys and girls alike, or a muscle shirt your there for God not to be going to a fashion show.
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By majeremember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri Jun 12, 2009 02:55 AM
Edited by majere (186163) on 2009-06-12 03:14:44 Added Stuff
Felsa wrote:

Out of curiosity, why does everyone say you must dress up? Are you saying someone who is in financial should not be allowed to go because they can not afford to wear the nice clothes you yourself can wear? I Do not see how what a person wears has anything to do with going to church. I am pretty sure Jesus would not go "You know, you just are not dressed right today so you can not worship. You can try again next week though."


I hardly ever "dress up" for mass. Jeans and a nice t-shirt or button up shirt for me, thanks. When I go at school I'm wearing whatever I was wearing for dance rehearsal.We had rehearsals 5:30 to 8:00 and mass starts at 9:00 but the hour in between I have to use for rehearsing for mass since I sing at it.

But at that mass just about everyone wears sweat pants.
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service (karma: 1)
By Liritmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri Jun 12, 2009 06:18 PM
Edited by Lirit (28370) on 2009-06-12 19:52:32
Felsa wrote:

Out of curiosity, why does everyone say you must dress up? Are you saying someone who is in financial should not be allowed to go because they can not afford to wear the nice clothes you yourself can wear? I Do not see how what a person wears has anything to do with going to church. I am pretty sure Jesus would not go "You know, you just are not dressed right today so you can not worship. You can try again next week though."


"Dressing up" is hardly a statement or display of how much money you or your parents have. There's no reason that one's "Sunday Best" clothes have to be designer namebrands or expensive fabrics. "Dressing up" for church is more about putting your best food forward, giving G-d the best you have to offer.

Most Catholic churches offer several masses over the course of a week. Most Conservative and Orthodox shuls have daily minyans. As far as I'm aware, a fair majority of Protestant churches offer at least one weeknight service, if not more. No one expects you to get dressed to the nines to make an appearance at every single one you attend, but I don't think it's inappropriate to expect someone to make an effort.



Kandykane, you may be very clever looking up a word in the dictionary and flaunting it as hard proof of your position, but it does nothing to support your cause. It is not judgemental to expect other people to maintain a certain level of social conduct from people in certain settings. Observing that they don't follow through, when you know either that they're old enough to know better and/or capable of doing so is not judgmental unless you condemn them for it. Posting a list of of Don'ts on some random site on the internet simply doesn't qualify.
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By kandykanePremium member
On Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:34 PM
Edited by kandykane (157761) on 2009-06-12 22:46:14
Clever?

No. Just judged.

Did you ever consider that I have lived that disapproval, judgemental attitude from so-called christians? Who were in a position of being looked up to in a church body? People who were supposed to set a positive example and witness through their actions that they were living for Christ?

I am sympathetic to those, like me who have felt this kind of disapproval for small, trivial actions.

I was going to be done with this thread, as some of these comments have stung, but on second thought, I stand my ground. It IS judgemental.

kk~
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service (karma: 1)
By ayyyshugamember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:41 PM
Edited by ayyyshuga (164307) on 2009-06-12 22:47:14
MrsFinnigan wrote:



Aaaand I suppose you also never go to plays, movies, concerts, recitals, or classes- all places that require the same courtesies. The only difference is that, instead of interrupting people's communal entertainment or education, at church, the same things that disrupt people watching movies, plays, et cetera disrupt people's communal worship time too. It's rude all the same.



Actually, you're right. I prefer to sit in my quiet house alone and worship the devil.
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By ChristinePremium member
On Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:11 PM
Edited by topphilly (207347) on 2009-06-12 23:12:19 typo
I just read the beginning of this post again.

Our studio recital is next week and I wonder if the same "suggestions" Magery made about church might apply to our audience.

In this country, at least, no one is forced to attend any kind of worship service. This may not be true in Afghanistan, but here in the U.S. we are free to worship or not as we choose. The same is true for our dance recital. No one is forced to attend. However, if they do choose to, the other audience members and the dancers have the right to expect a certain amount of consideration.

I don't think Magery's suggestions were meant to be judgmental so much as educational. Different churches, temples, mosques,...have different traditions and expectations. None of us want to intentionally offend others and sometimes a gentle reminder helps to keep us from doing so.

I hope the "un-happy" worshipers find a house of worship where they can feel comfortable and that meets their spiritual needs without causing so many hurt feelings and bitterness. There are so many choices out there we shouldn't let a few bad experiences with crabby priests or other sinners (we are all sinners)keep us from expressing our own spirituality in a way that fits our own unique personalities. Our spirits need to be nourished just a much as our bodies.

And for some people, organized religion gets in the way of their own personal relationship with their God. It's "the human factor" For those who prefer a more direct, less structured spirituality, who are we to judge? Some of the most loving, generous, kindhearted people I have ever known happen to be atheists.

So many wars have been...ARE being fought over religion. I for one, would rather not fight.

Keep On Dancing.

xoxo
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service (karma: 1)
By puredancer
On Sun Jun 14, 2009 07:38 PM
so I pretty much agree with you on all of these things you've listed.

Here's a little story.
About 4 year ago we were appointed with a new priest we were excited until he got there. He was not supportive our youth group and made us change a lot of thing we did because he believed in "Traditional." We really started not to like him because of his actions. We recently found out he was appointed to another church and that we were getting a new priest. About a month ago we were having a breakfast for everyone in our parish who has helped our youth group. We had a little down time and were sitting around talking. Meanwhile there i a ma going on. My youth minister gets a text message and see it's from our priest. HE was TEXTING DURING mass!!!!
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By popergerm
On Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:42 AM
Man thats tacky, texting during mass, its one thing to look to see who might be calling or what a message is about, and do so descreatly, but not reply to it till after the service, that is if you have to have it on and have it on vibrate or something, but, the priest is supposed to be the spiritual leader, he should set a good example, and texting during mass I think most here will say is not a good example for a priest to be doing.
I know there are several priests that leave a cell phone on but silence it just before mass because I often serve the altar.

Even during an impromtu mass outside, that would be non kosher I think to say.
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By kandykanePremium member
On Mon Jun 15, 2009 08:42 AM
Even ministers have emergencies.

Maybe someone was in need of counseling immediately after service. And they wanted to be sure to catch that person before they left. It could have been anything!!

kk~
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By d4jmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jun 15, 2009 09:29 AM
^Agreed. Our pastor keeps a beeper and a phone on his person at all times, including during services. I've never seen him get called out during a service, but he is an on-call pastor for fire/ambulance situations and he also goes to hospitals on a moment's notice.

Comment #8321575 deleted

re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By LlamaLlamaDuckmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jun 22, 2009 02:08 PM
^ At my fiances cousins wedding there was a moment of silence, I hadn't eaten yet... so there was a huge GRRRRROOOWWWWLLLLL from my stomach... Needless to say you had 2 big kids sitting next to each other (my fiance and I) who couldn't keep a straight face... and I ended up doing the snorting laugh.
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By kandykanePremium member
On Tue Jun 23, 2009 09:46 AM
^ Your lead-in got deleted, but that is still a funny story!

kk~
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By popergerm
On Wed Jun 24, 2009 01:16 AM
well a growling stomach is not as bad as serving and in a moment of deep silence, you fart loudly in front of everyone in the congregation and it smells real bad, so that there is no doubt what you did.

I eat a buritto dinner for lunch sometimes with beans, spiced rice and white chese on fridays since I dont eat meat on fridays, and sometimes it catches up on saturday for the mass, or when you rip one and everyone around you smells it but cant move and you just kind of freeze so you dont start laughing for doing it.

That is enough to turn you red faced in a hurry.
I tell you
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By MrsFinnigan
On Sun Jun 28, 2009 04:18 PM
Felsa wrote:

Out of curiosity, why does everyone say you must dress up? Are you saying someone who is in financial should not be allowed to go because they can not afford to wear the nice clothes you yourself can wear? I Do not see how what a person wears has anything to do with going to church. I am pretty sure Jesus would not go "You know, you just are not dressed right today so you can not worship. You can try again next week though."


So how would you feel if, in a service so crowded you'd be hard pressed to find any other place to sit, the guy in front of you (and your school-age children) was wearing his "best" tee shirt, which included a picture of a woman wearing only leather lingerie and a perverted and chauvinistic message about the "best" thing to do with her?

I was embarrassed, offended, and upset to see something like this in Church of all places. And yet, in order to remain "nonjudgmental" I kept my mouth shut except to tell the kids to not look at his shirt.

So, believe it or not, there are still people who need to be taught how to dress appropriately for church.
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By d4jmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jun 28, 2009 04:26 PM
^That type of clothing happens at my church sometimes. A seeking person will come in and they are dressed inappropriately. Our church's position is that unless there is nudity involved nothing will be said. Every effort is made to welcome the person and if they continue to come to church it is only a matter of time where they will start to dress more appropriately on their own - either through simple observation or a conviction of the Holy Spirit as they accept Jesus into their hearts. I've seen it happen with women who started out dressing like street-walkers.

:)
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By MrsFinnigan
On Sun Jun 28, 2009 08:24 PM
^I didn't ask what your church would do, but how you would feel, because the point of this thread is about behaviors (and manners of dress in this case) at church that are inconsiderate toward others in attendance. In this case, it was not just a pair of jeans with a worn out knee (I could tolerate that. I was a grunge chick in the '90's after all), but a shirt with a partially nude woman and a demeaning message.

Even seekers are capable of figuring out that if they're going to be in a place full of lots of different people including women and children, they probably shouldn't wear something that insults women and requires parents to guard their children's eyes.

And yet you would judge me as judgmental for expecting that basic courtesy of others.
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By fairy_dustmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jun 29, 2009 09:39 AM
^ I agree, wearing that in church of all places?

When I was in Italy, I visited a lot of churches, and there's a dress code for them - knees and shoulders need to be covered (same for the Vatican museum). I was there in summer when it's super-hot in Rome, and I would usually wear sundresses with spaghetti straps when walking around the city. No biggie on the dress code - I just put on a shawl to cover my shoulders before entering the churches.

Incidents like the one MrsF described make me think that maybe churches outside Italy should have dress codes too, and not necessarily for covering up bare shoulders and knees (I've worn sundresses with straps to church outside Italy and still looked modest). It's not a matter of "you're not wearing the right clothes, you can't come in", more like "this is a place of worship, appropriate dress is required". A t-shirt with a sexual picture and degrading message is much worse than bare shoulders in my opinion. He should have been told "I'm sorry, that t-shirt is not appropriate for worship, please wear this button-down shirt over it until Mass is over".

As for going to the bathroom in the middle of services - that happened to me once, also in Italy. Not during Mass, during a vespers service right before Mass at St. Peter's Basilica. I don't know if it was mild food poisoning or something in the water, but I suddenly got a horrible cramp in the middle of the service and needed to go to the bathroom right away. I didn't disrupt the service, I was discreet when going out (didn't make noise or walk all over the place), and anyone who saw me clutching my belly with a pained looked on my face probably understood the reason why I had to leave for a few minutes.
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By d4jmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jun 29, 2009 03:49 PM
How would I feel? Well, considering that my church occasionally gets smelly drunks and female meth-addicts that look like prostitutes complete with sky high heels, hot pants and a tank top that has been cut short to right under the bust to show the midriff and not wearing a bra, I feel GLAD THEY ARE THERE. If a church is there for the lost, then I fully expect to sometimes see people who actually LOOK lost.

If a guy came in to our church with an offensive t-shirt with a nude woman and a gross saying, you can bet that a brother would go up to him put his arm around him, welcome him to the church, ask him if he needed prayer for anything and offer to pray with him, then hug him when they were done praying, give him materials about the different groups we have so he could get involved, and then share with him what the Bible says about women, and THEN suggest that he not wear that shirt to church. Because that is the order of importance. Ultimately, getting right with God will change his view of women and if he did so then at one point he would choose on his own not to wear that shirt again.

:)
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By kandykanePremium member
On Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:14 PM
^^ I couldn't agree more.

kk~
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By poptart22
On Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:37 PM
D4j, I want to go to your church! I'm not usually big on religion, but you seem very tolerant and kind. Exactly what Christianity should be!
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By popergerm
On Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:48 PM
if you are getting lost people then something must be going right, but still if they are comming in just to offend the ol holyer then though church crowd then that is a differant story. i have seen that sort of thing happen in a catholic church no less in california. that sort of thing makes me mad.

signed Jeremy popergerm
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service
By MrsFinnigan
On Wed Jul 01, 2009 03:20 PM
d4j wrote:

How would I feel? Well, considering that my church occasionally gets smelly drunks and female meth-addicts that look like prostitutes complete with sky high heels, hot pants and a tank top that has been cut short to right under the bust to show the midriff and not wearing a bra, I feel GLAD THEY ARE THERE. If a church is there for the lost, then I fully expect to sometimes see people who actually LOOK lost.


So are you glad when someone shows up in church and puts up stumbling blocks in front of even children by what they wear, as long as they're there and might gradually show more consideration?

What are you going to do for the children who see that shirt in the meantime?

I like the idea of offering another shirt to wear over first, rather like what I've seen at other places of worship where a certain manner of dress is expected. I've attended Shabbat services at a Jewish congregation that had shelves at the entrance with clean yarmulkas and prayer shawls. Some more traditionalist Catholic parishes provide chapel veils for girls who don't have one or forgot theirs. Providing button down shirts may be a bit overboard as people are more likely to forget a chapel veil or a yarmulka than they are to wear a shirt with a pornographic message to worship, but at least that would immediately prevent children from seeing pornographic messages in church.
re: What NOT to do at Mass or ANY church service (karma: 2)
By d4jmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Jul 01, 2009 08:41 PM
If a child sees a pornographic image or a filthy bum or a meth addict, these are not stumbling blocks to them but rather perfect opportunities for teachable moments:

Mommy, why does that man smell bad and look funny? Because he's been having some trouble dear, the poor thing. Hey, I have an idea, how about after announcements, when it's time for everyone to great each other, let's say hi, I bet that'll brighten his day!

Brother and sister snickering to each other and mom overhears, Haha, we can see that lady's boob! Hey kids, it's not polite to talk about others. Yes, that lady is not very covered up is she? Maybe she doesn't know about how to honor God through honoring herself with a little modesty. I think I'll invite her to the ladies' Bible study so she can find out.

Mom, what does {insert nasty word here} mean? I saw it on that guy's t-shirt and there was a naked lady too! Can you show me where without pointing? Oh, that man? He's new here, isn't he? Well that word is a word that does not honor women. He probably thinks he is being cool or funny but he's not. I'm glad that he came here because now he'll find out what the Bible says about how a man should treat a lady.

We do not hope that they will gradually learn to have consideration for others because church isn't charm school. We pray that they will find Jesus! That will change them plenty on the inside and that change will start to manifest itself on the outside. The meth addict lady will start to have hope and she will start to feel loved and she will start to see herself as God sees her and that will cause her to dress differently. And the stinky bum will not be stinky after the service because people will befriend him and someone will offer him use of a shower or help him find the shelter and will bring him to our church's thrift shop for clothes, etc. And rude t-shirt wearer will know after one service not to where that shirt again. I supposed that there is always the option of offering him a shirt to wear during the service. I don't know what our church's official policy is, but that is a pretty good idea - as long as it offered with love and not a legalistic attitude.

:)
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