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Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By LeSoulierVertmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Mon Jun 15, 2009 03:05 PM

Last night at a friend's bbq, a guy mentioned that the Catholics are offering indulgences again. I did not believe him, but found an article about it in the New York Times.

www.nytimes.com . . .

“Why are we bringing it back?” asked Bishop Nicholas A. DiMarzio of Brooklyn, who has embraced the move. “Because there is sin in the world.”


I personally am not religious, and think this is absolutely ridiculous. It doesn't solve "sin", it just gives "sinners" an easy way out. I mean I thought they got rid of this in the 1500's because they realized it was ridiculous.

What are your thoughts?

32 Replies to Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?

re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By Ampersandmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jun 15, 2009 03:39 PM
I was raised catholic, and I am currently more than a little lapsed in regards to my practicing of it, but regardless, I am not really a fan of that idea.

It is good they are not selling them anymore. I can even sorta understand why they have come back into "style" so to speak. Keeping the name and knowledge of them alive contributes to the traditionalist ideals that the church has been returning to as of late. I just don't really like the way it seems so formulaic. Like if you sinned, but then went on a pilgrimage, and donated some money to a good cause, then the sin is gone? I mean, I think people always have the ability to redeem themselves so to speak. If someone went from a life of crime and then truly and honestly felt the need to turn over a new leaf and become someone in their community who constantly volunteered, helped out, gave money, etc etc etc, then I do think that speaks well of that person, and that in whatever afterlife their is, they will be a-ok. That doesn't mean though that you can sin, then "pay it off" with works or money, and then just go right back to doing it again. I mean, I am not saying people will necessarily be doing that, but giving it a name and acting all official about it kinda makes it seem like that.

I have gone on pilgrimages before, and would willingly go on some more again. I really do enjoy the history and art of my culture/religion even if I don't necessarily believe all of it. I still wouldn't ever fill out paperwork or whatever you need to do to make those pilgrimages or donations official as an indulgence though. God in whatever form he is will know where my heart really is and what my intentions are regardless of official documentation and names, right? I'd like to think so.

Also, I am sad I cannot think of any good Martin Luther jokes in relation to this subject.
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again? (karma: 2)
By GypsieFreemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jun 15, 2009 03:53 PM
Edited by GypsieFree (152616) on 2009-06-15 15:56:45
Edited by GypsieFree (152616) on 2009-06-15 16:18:45
I can't say much on my thoughts about this without offending everyone on this board and probably getting Moded. So I will say this.


Absolutely, positively, giganticly, absurdly, ridiculous

On that note, I will admit that I'm not entirely sure what I believe. I do not claim to belong to any one faith because I don't entirely swallow any of them up..

But, I would like to think, If there is a God like creature out there somewhere, He/She is smart enough to see the holes in this. Smart enough to realize that good people make mistakes, smart enough realize that evil people will beg for forgiveness in fear of being damned.

Too many loop holes.
The idea of paying off your sins is just riDONKulous to me

Absurd, I repeat. Absolutely absurd
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again? (karma: 1)
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jun 15, 2009 04:14 PM
$$ cha-CHING!!! $$
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again? (karma: 1)
By AdvocatusDiaboli
On Tue Jun 16, 2009 01:59 PM
Edited by AdvocatusDiaboli (77070) on 2009-06-16 14:02:05
Step right up, ladies and gentlemen! Got sin on your hands? Sleaze on your back? Coveted your neighbours donkey?

Not to worry, because I'll redeem those nasty sins right off. With a guarantee of being 25 % cheaper than the Catholic Church. All sins are accepted. As is Visa and Mastercard.

Be sin-free today!

Comment #8308528 deleted
Removed by Elfie (64279) on 2009-06-16 14:02:16 member request

re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again? (karma: 1)
By FeisDadAndre
On Tue Jun 16, 2009 02:49 PM
It doesn't solve "sin", it just gives "sinners" an easy way out. I mean I thought they got rid of this in the 1500's because they realized it was ridiculous.


The Catholic Church has always been a tad slow to join the rest of the world when it comes to modernizing itself. Case in point: in 1610, Gallileo published a book which provided proof that the Earth revolved around the Sun. This was contrary to the official Church position at the time which held that the Earth was the centre of the universe. The attacks against Gallileo's theory started in 1612 and within a few years, he was seen as a heretic for his ideas. And in 1633, he was convicted by the Catholic Church of heresy and sentenced to house arrest, until he died in 1642.

Eventually, the Catholic Church came around to see the merits of Gallileo's theory and conceded that, in fact, they were mistaken and that Gallileo was rght. So they issued the appropriate bulletin absolving Gallileo of his crime... in 1992!!!

So it only took the Church 359 years to realize that the Earth revolves around the Sun, and not the other way around. Interesting ironic sidenote: the Vatican has its own Astronomical Observatory, which was established in 1774! Not sure what they've been up to for the past 200 years but it certainly did not involve looking at planets.

So yeah, indulgences are certainly well within the mandate of a Church which today rocks to the hippest music of the 17th century. On the upside, perhaps I could buy an indulgence for every time I thought that my ex-wife was an idiot. Which means I would owe the Catholic Church about, let's see ... 24, then add the 6... carry the 7 ... round it off to the nearest tenth... about $2,782,916. :D

Nah, I was raised in Catholic schools so they already own my childhood soul.
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By LeSoulierVertmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Tue Jun 16, 2009 05:51 PM
Edited by LeSoulierVert (121625) on 2009-06-16 17:51:51 typo
Eventually, the Catholic Church came around to see the merits of Gallileo's theory and conceded that, in fact, they were mistaken and that Gallileo was rght. So they issued the appropriate bulletin absolving Gallileo of his crime... in 1992!!!


Lawl. That made my day... '92?!!!?

I'd like to hear some Catholics input on this subject, if they dare step forward!
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By MaraschinoCherry
On Tue Jun 16, 2009 06:33 PM
Edited by MaraschinoCherry (145232) on 2009-06-16 18:36:05
Firstly, the Church became imperfect when the first man joined it, because men are imperfect. That doesn't mean that it isn't fundamentally a good thing.
Indulgences were never gone. I believe that special indulgences are periodically offered if something happens that is not a regularly scheduled event, but there are indulgences that are available regularly.
It's not an "easy way out", it is a way to show God that you are truthfully sorry of your sins in a manner Catholics believe was prescribed by God. Charging for indulgences was a corruption that has been stamped out, it is forbidden and has been forbidden since something like the year 1567 AD, people should get over it already.

For an example of an indulgence, we have the First Friday devotion to the Sacred Heart of Our Lord. You must, on every first Friday for nine consecutive months, go to Mass, go to confession, receive communion, pray for the intentions of the Pope, and be free from any attachment to sin, even venial sin. Jesus said this to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque: "I promise thee in the excessive mercy of My Heart that My all-powerful love will grant to all those who communicate on the First Friday in nine consecutive months, the grace of final penitence; they shall not die in My disgrace nor without receiving the Sacraments; My Divine heart shall be their safe refuge in this last moment."
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By popergerm
On Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:36 PM
I step, forward. Indulgances have always been part of the church, they are not a get out of jail free card first of all, second they are used to pay for time that would be spent in purgatory I know most of you think that were full of it about purgatory, but it is a purification stage to get rid of the temporal effects of sin the effects on the soul for commiting the sin the relationship with God, it is not untill we are in Gods perfect image again that we can enter paradice. Think of purgatory as the due process when you break a law, you have to pay a fine or give time in the jail usually its not untill that price of sorts is paid that you are free to go.

You christians of the protestent and non denomiational type might say I have been bought with the blood of Jesus.

All the baptised have that was for origional sin that it was broken, if you go and commit sin afterward that is you choice and you must deal with that, the relationship with God is something that you have to keep on at and living like carrying your crosses daily its a living relationship though the Spirit, and not a once and for all thing for what ever sin you might commit after your baptism, yes the power over sin was given but, you have to choose to use it and we all at one time or another choose to sin even if though omitting something we are supposed to do, or by presuming something that may not be in reguards to religion.

indulgences come in two types partial that cover part of it, and pleanarary or ones that cover all the effects of sin up to that point, they are usually though doing an act of piety, or by attending something very sacred, and the church admitted that she should not have been just selling indulgences for money, that was not the spirit of them, and it was very wrong for those involved to do so. THey did so out of their own means and not in the name of God or their role as religious leader.

To back up what I say from the bible, I tell you not untill every bit has been payed back, and like silver seven times refined of dross.

If you like Think of the indulgence like this sin dirtys our relationship with God, He is like a silverrefiner, and how does a refiner know when the silver is done refining, answere the refiner can see his image in the silver once more, and that is how we are once the dirt of sin is refined away and God can see his perfect image he created us in once more, we can enter paradice.

signed Jeremy popergerm
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By dust2dustmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Sun Jun 21, 2009 01:19 PM
Have you SEEN some of the catholic churches around the world? They have to pay for that junk somehow....
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again? (karma: 1)
By majeremember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jun 21, 2009 01:53 PM
dust2dust wrote:

Have you SEEN some of the catholic churches around the world? They have to pay for that junk somehow....


WHAT junk?

On another note the catechism addresses indulgences 1471-79 (that is if you care what it says).
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again? (karma: 1)
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jun 21, 2009 04:36 PM
Did y'all not read the "no, you do not pay for indulgences" part?
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By majeremember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jun 21, 2009 04:49 PM
Heart wrote:

Did y'all not read the "no, you do not pay for indulgences" part?


I don't think think they actually read the article.
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jun 23, 2009 01:43 AM
You cannot buy one — the church outlawed the sale of indulgences in 1567 — but charitable contributions, combined with other acts, can help you earn one.
Uhhh, charitable contributions can help you earn one. Exactly how is that different than buying one?
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By popergerm
On Wed Jun 24, 2009 01:21 AM
Edited by popergerm (129319) on 2009-06-24 01:36:52 misspelled ciao
Its given in love, and out of charity, not out of greed of gain, its the state of mind its given in, and one has certain things to do for the act to count as an indulgence.

for one usually you have to be in a state of grace for a pleanary one, and you have to usually pray for the intentions of the Holy Father, and recive communion, also for a plenarary one you have to be free of all want of attachment to sin.

well time for me to go to bed.

ciao

popergerm
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By LeSoulierVertmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Wed Jun 24, 2009 01:28 PM
Edited by LeSoulierVert (121625) on 2009-06-24 13:28:38 Messed up the quotes
Uhhh, charitable contributions can help you earn one. Exactly how is that different than buying one?


The church is getting more evolved in their money making tactics.

Its given in love, and out of charity, not out of greed of gain, its the state of mind its given in, and one has certain things to do for the act to count as an indulgence.


Does the church have mind readers?

I think the Catholic religion depends on guilt. They are taught what is sinning. They sin, and then they feel guilty. How is the guilt erased? Money, kneeling, and a few "Our Fathers". It keeps the church going, and it keeps the people's mind's eased.

As for whether they truly feel sorry for what they did, well... we'll never know, will we?
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By MrsFinnigan
On Wed Jun 24, 2009 01:50 PM
Is this the religion thread or the religion bashing thread?
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Jun 24, 2009 02:41 PM
And here I was thinking charity was universally regarded as a GOOD thing, and was one of Jesus' central tenets. Huh, damn. I guess it is now synonymous with "tithe."
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again? (karma: 1)
By oooshinymember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Wed Jun 24, 2009 02:41 PM
dust2dust wrote:

Have you SEEN some of the catholic churches around the world? They have to pay for that junk somehow....


You don't see Catholic "megachurches" popping up off the side of the freeway.
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By MrsFinnigan
On Wed Jun 24, 2009 03:50 PM
I'll step up, too. I honestly think it was the NY Times thought it was a slow news day, because plenary indulgences never went away, and you can't buy them either. It's not at all as if we're dredging up some practice abolished by the Counter-Reformation.

As for Galileo, he didn't get in trouble for promoting the the idea of a heliocentric solar system, but specifically for making fun of the Pope in doing so. Galileo was right. The Church never denied that- otherwise there'd be a couple of generations of Catholics still alive who were taught that it is a matter of
Faith that the sun revolves around the earth. House arrest for making a caricature of the Pope is a bit overkill, too.
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By LeSoulierVertmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Thu Jun 25, 2009 09:30 PM
Edited by LeSoulierVert (121625) on 2009-06-25 21:31:55
If the church never denied his theory, why was he FORCED to recant it? And he was. Everyone knows that. Look it up if you don't believe me. I just did.

Anyways, MrsF, I'm not bashing your religion, just merely expressing my views. Every religion needs to make money to keep itself going. That's just a fact.
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By popergerm
On Fri Jun 26, 2009 01:56 AM
Is that what you think its about, The Roman Catholic church uses the money to help people more then I say, some megachurch where you just have some fast talking pastor that keeps much of the money himself, and they run their church as a business, not much in the line of charity is it.

Who will you trust more, a church with roots back 2000 years or some pastor preaching the Gosple of Prosperity about you are not blessed untill you send them soo much money and then you make back ten fold and then they say you are justified in Gods eyes.

Yes money is what alows the earth church to continue its existance.

How is it differant with charity you ask? Charity you give freely out of love, not forced to like an equivelent exchange of a buisness transaction by selling them. It dont work that way, God is above us, as it says in the bible, my ways are above your ways, and my kingdom is not of this earth.

signed Jeremy popergerm
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By Snuffymember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri Jun 26, 2009 03:11 AM
Edited by Snuffy (189942) on 2009-06-26 03:13:40 typos
If this is going to turn into a Catholic church VS modern megachurch argument regarding which one uses the most money to help others (rather than lining their own pockets), then I'd like to see some statistics first. Otherwise, I can't see any point drawing this irrelevant argument into the equation.

Anyway, my view is that it's nice to give to charities, but if there is an all-knowing deity out there watching, they'll be the one to ultimately decide whether it balances out the naughty things you've been getting up to. If my eternity depended on it, I don't think I'd be satisfied that paying off my sins would save me. That's a pretty enormous risk, isn't it? But hey, each to his/her own, as long as nobody is hurting others because they think they can pay their way out of punishment!
re: Catholic Church offers Indulgences again?
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri Jun 26, 2009 01:14 PM
Oh please! Catholics INVENTED the concept of mega-churches. Protestants are finally catching up.
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