I just wanted to ask for your opinion on this topic... The performing arts studio I teach at only introduced dance at the beginning of last year and alot of kids had issues with no talking and disobaying... As a 'punishment' for disrupting (and I'm not talking about just talking I'm saying totally stopping the class and mucking about) I gave out 10 push ups.

I thought this was ok, but one day they were horrible and the whole class had to do pushups... but I mean it was a dance class, If you act up in soccer you have to run laps, but one of the kids complained to his parents (this kid who routinely is suspended from school for fighting) who complained to the boss and i got in some trouble for dealing out 'corporal punishment'... Now this is the same as hitting a child or using a strap - which I would never do! Instead they now have to sit out of class with the receptionist and fold papers.

It is not so much of a problem anymore but I just want to know if this has ever happened to anybody else? I mean its a dance class! not a book club!

push ups, sit ups, jumping jacks whatever it takes, students know we mean buisness when we give these out and they respect us for it. Dont get walked over these kids need an imediate correction 10 push ups can take just 20 seconds and then they are back in class..going out to sit with receptionist can be like a reward and they are missing class time (time they are paying for) if you wanted the parent to be happy.

There is nothing wrong with 10 push-ups. I would even increase them if 10 isn't stopping the kids from the bad behaviour. Just untill we have reached a number that annoys them do much, they start to understand THEY have to change their behaviour.

This kid completely trained his parents: Go home, complain about the punishment an Mom/Dad will get you out of it. This really gives any kid the impression it can do anything it wants. And Mom/Dad just don't want to be bothered with their kid.

This is a good example of bad parenting.

The director following the parents in this is 1/ scared to loose customers, 2/ scared to say 'no' to parents, 3/ has no idea about teaching, 4/ puts parents and bad behaviour of kids before teachers. All together: not fit for this job.

For me it would be time to leave and find another place to work. Check the history of teachers at this place. With a director/boss not supporting his teachers, I wouldn't be surprised to see there has been a constant flee of teachers during the years.

Its a huge company... with thousands of students... nothing pays as well - I'm just glad to know that I wasn't in the wrong... For a while I was just really worried that I was being to hard on my classes

I thought getting them to do something physical was better then sitting out as well but yeah, I think it is safe to say that his parents = not so great! I think I'm definatley going to take this up with the state principal again...

There's something wrong with your boss. He/She must only have dollar signs in their eyes. They should've backed you on this. Personally, I wouldn't stay teaching in that sort of environment

It sounds like the people you are working for are more interested about the amount of money that is being brought in than the quality of dance education they are receiving. I do crunches as my "punishment" sometimes, and my parents know that my doing so is engaging the child in further physical activity to strengthen their bodies for dance, as well as give them that extra push to remind them their behavior isn't tolerated.

Eventually, with the way your director or principal is going he is not going to have any more students because parents aren't going to continue to pay if their kids are sitting in the office folding papers for an entire class instead of spending 20 seconds doing a few pushups.

I have retired my angry teacher self (mostly) and don't really get into it with the kids like I used to. I don't have the energy. Instead of toeing off all of the time, I just dole out push-ups. No long conversation needed. I'll warn them a couple of times and then "10 push-ups please."

I even give push-ups for giving the same corrections repetitively and them not absorbing it because they are not paying attention. One 8 year old did 40 push-ups recently because she wasn't correcting a part in her routine.

Dance is a physical activity. Push-ups are fine. We have a culture of pampered children that parents intercede for continuously and consequently create little pansies. They don't want to sweat, they don't want to be corrected, they don't want anyone to be too hard on them. Fabulous...now you have effectively crippled your child and when faced with the real world, they will have coping and functioning issues. Go mom!

I will no longer teach students who's parents I can detect are coddlers. I have no desire to work with kids who require pampering. Princesses need not apply. I suggest another school for them that's a "better fit" as soon as the opportunity arises.

Sorry your boss has undermined your discipline. That's like having a family where mom says no and then the kid runs to dad and he undoes what the mom has done. Blah!

^^ I LOVE IT!!!! Go Mom...Hilarious!! You took the words right out of my mouth!!

I too dish out push ups or Heel stretches and splits- something to make them really work and that they may not like doing. Parents have questioned this when they come in the following week and I have simply said, "Your child was disruspting the rest of the paying/interested students and I gave them their least favorite thing to do in class during their favorite thing to do in class as a learning tool (don't say punishment). I am sorry if we do not see eye to eye on this, but your child WILL NOT disrupt my teaching methods and the learning of the other students. If this behavior continues, they will need to switch classes, as I will not tolerate the disrespect in my class. I'm assuming that by his/her displays in my class, you are not blind to their disrespect at home and school. Thank you for showing an interest and concern in his/her growth in this class. I am hoping that with my actions and a stern discussion from you, that this will remain an isolated incident!!"

The parent just stood there, mouth open and in disbelief that I said what I had. Child was better behaved the next few classes and when behavior started to go sour again, I just reminded them of our last talk and said that that was a warning, they didn't want to suffer the real consequences. end of subject....

I think if they do it in class, then its a punishment that is extending your training and by no means, corporal punishment. We make ours do pushups when they say "can't".

Some parents are just too easy on their kids! If I had come home when I was young and said I had to do push ups for punishment, they would say, and I quote "You must have deserved it. It's good for you." If I had said anything about being embarrased, etc.. they would have said "Welcome to the real world."

Now parents are like, "Was the bad teacher mean to you today?"

I make my kids sit in their worst leg splits for punishment. This is what works best for me, since all the kids dislike splits the most. kids love to run, so running became something that they wanted to do, instead of punishment. As soon as they have to sit in their splits, they are behaving like little angels. I definitely think a min. of splits or 10 push ups that lasts 30 seconds is way better than sending them out of the class, where they are no longer getting instruction. we are in a tricky situation, since dance class is a paid service. it seems parents would rather them do splits, sit-ups, etc, and be able to hop right back into class, rather than send them out. but we all know parents are crazy these days and do not use their own brains! ha ha ha i love this website!!!

MissSharon73 wrote:

The parent just stood there, mouth open and in disbelief that I said what I had.

Just had a similar scenario happen last week. I delivered an ultimatum regarding learning a dance to a child and the mom called to tell me that she thought I was too harsh. She didn't like the way I said it to her daughter. My response...

"It is what it is. The ultimatum still stands. Please know this about me as your child's educator. I am blunt. I am not going to change my delivery to suit your child's temperament. Please have a discussion with her and let her know that it will be no different in the future. If we don't see eye to eye regarding to the way I teach class, you should actively begin looking for another teacher as we will continue to have these disagreements that are not productive for anyone."

cheerspirit wrote:

Some parents are just too easy on their kids! If I had come home when I was young and said I had to do push ups for punishment, they would say, and I quote "You must have deserved it. It's good for you." If I had said anything about being embarrased, etc.. they would have said "Welcome to the real world."

Ahhhhhh...."Welcome to the real world"...I know it well.

My mothers other fave...

Me: "But Mooooommmmm, it's not fair!!!!"

Mom: "Honey, life's not fair. Get used to it."

My mom NEVER rescued me. She expected me to take care of myself. My car broke down at 16..."get on the phone and call the mechanic". Paid my own bills, dealt with my own consequences, and no meant no.

One of the girls in school got a brand new corvette for her birthday. Daddy even pumped her gas. This person grew up and ultimately ended up living with her mother because she was so ill equipped to take care of herself. I'll take the beat up used car and pay my own gas, if it means I can take care of myself as an adult, please and thank you.

I thank my mother repeatedly for allowing me to fail and to succeed on my own terms. Aren't we supposed to provide roots AND WINGS???

Sorry...I digress on the parent rant.

But...ummm...ya...push-ups. Not the worst thing in the world.

I agree with everyone else that the push ups, sit ups etc. are all fine...and instead of punishment I believe they are activities to keep a student engaged in a dance class as opposed to sitting out...sitting out is the real punishment at the end of the day, as the ones that have been sitting out "folding papers with the receptionist" have missed out on a valid learning experience.

I also agree that students these days are being coddled by parents...and that parents these days will take the word of the child over a teacher along with a variety of other problems...,however; I am wondering "who" exactly is this generation of parents we are talking about. I know there is a wide age range of teachers on DDN...so I am wondering which generation are these parents from and why they are raising their kids differently then they were raised....just something to think about LOL!

Cheers,
Goldfinger's Girl

We have gained students from studios that make the dancers do push-ups, etc. So if you are in our area, keep it up, our enrollment will increase.

When I have a problem I pull that child to the side and let them know I will not tolerate their behavior, be it talking or acting up. All of my students know that I mean business and if the problem continues I speak to the parent and that is usually all it takes.

I let the kids and the parents know up front that I mean business and we are so blessed to have good kids and families. However, IF I had a kid that was totally out of hand, I would ask them to leave or at registration for the next year, their requested classes would just so happen to be full and I will gladly put them on a waiting list that will never open up for them. If I were to do something like that, I think I would have them go to the bar and do 100 (proper) plie's in a limited amount of time.

Goldfingers_Girl wrote:

...,however; I am wondering "who" exactly is this generation of parents we are talking about. I know there is a wide age range of teachers on DDN...so I am wondering which generation are these parents from and why they are raising their kids differently then they were raised....just something to think about LOL!

Most of us got so far (developped in dance and teaching) because we had discipline and/or tough parents. Let's not forget our motivation and perseverence.

Kids till about 25 years old now, grew up in a time where their parents had more money than time for them. They got everything they wanted, parents just didn't want to hear whining kids. "Give them anything you can buy and that keeps the silence in the house."
Yes, some of us have the same age as these parents, but as teachers we deal with the results of parenting with too much money. So we disagree about this way of 'parenting'.

The financial crisis is bad for a lot of people. But if it means parents will start to say 'no' to their kids again, it's the best thing that could have happened for the future of these kids.

thanks for all the replies! I'm actually starting up my own studio in about a month and you better believe we will do push ups! The studio is totally all about money, but it is a means to end until my classes take off I guess! Thanks again!

You were not in the wrong. I've made my own students do crunches COUNTLESS times for being late, talking excessively, ect. It makes sense to me. Dance is a physical activity and all that is doing is making them stronger. There really isn't a downside to it, other than the kid doesn't like doing it It's all a plus for the teacher!

The fact of the matter that they said it's "Corporal Punishment" is the most ignorant statement I have heard in a while.

You are not wrong we all teach differently, but if a student is out of place then disciplined needs to be in place.

I make my kids do mountain climbers when they act crazy, they do them already but I will double the number.

If they forget shoes or are not dressed properly, push ups..and the list goes on!

We just had our show. Kids had to practice with a prop "hat" and kept forgetting. If they forgot 1 week okay, 2 weeks 10 push ups, 3 weeks, 30 push ups. They didn't forget again. I do it all the time, for being disrepecful in class, for talking, for forgetting props repeatedly.

I am so glad you are opening your own studio. Your students will be better off for it.

Actually part of our coaches course at gymnastics, you are required to answer a variety of questions to pass. And one of them is about exactly this. The correct answer is that under absolutly no circumstances is it acceptable to uuse conditioning exersizes as punishment. The reasoning is that kids then learn to see conditioning as negative and punitive. Ideally we want kids to learn tto enjoy conditioning.

RileyA wrote:

Actually part of our coaches course at gymnastics, you are required to answer a variety of questions to pass. And one of them is about exactly this. The correct answer is that under absolutly no circumstances is it acceptable to uuse conditioning exersizes as punishment. The reasoning is that kids then learn to see conditioning as negative and punitive. Ideally we want kids to learn tto enjoy conditioning.

I've heard this before and it makes me cringe everytime I hear it. The reason why kids see it as negative now a days is because they are so darn lazy that anything that requires them to do something on their own is negative. Have you ever given a 13 year old an encyclopedia and told them to look something up? They whine, because thats what the internet is for. Same thing-they are accustomed to having everything handed to them on this big, fancy platter that they cannot fathom the idea that they might actually have to do something.

For years it has been known that hard work pays off in the end. Sadly, thats not the case anymore. Kids want to get off as easy as possible, and when they don't, they turn it in to a giant uproar-seriously, Corporal Punishment?

So Riley, just out of curiosity, what is it that you use in your class if you follow this practice? It seems as though most of us agree that further physical activity like crunches or pushups are handed out for poor behavior. What do you do?

Also had the same question for RileyA. The problem I see is that anything punitive will have an unhealthy association according to that theory.

I think that picking something that will physically benefit them as a consequence is a much better choice than yelling (too much energy expended by the teacher) or sitting them out (now they are sedentary) or having them go to work with the receptionist (wasted class time that is being paid for).

Please don't say that there are no consequences for misbehavior. There is cause and effect in every aspect of our lives. Children should understand this early on.

Corporal Punishment is defined as follows -

Corporal punishment is the deliberate infliction of pain intended to discipline or reform a wrongdoer or change a person's behavior. The term usually refers to striking the offender with an implement, whether in judicial, domestic, or educational settings.

Corporal punishment may be divided into three main types:

* parental or domestic corporal punishment, i.e. the spanking of children or teenagers within the family;
* school corporal punishment, i.e. of school students by teachers or other school officials;
* judicial corporal punishment, involving the official caning or whipping of convicted offenders (whether adult or juvenile) by order of a court of law.


If push-ups are corporal punishment then our dance classes must be an extended hour of heinous torture. "No, no, NOOOOOOO....not another GRANDE PLIE' IN FIFTH....AHHHHHHHH!!!!!"

Sorry..."snarky" got out.

My favorite thing to give a busy body is trash duty.

There is nothing wrong with that. I personally would make them do more crunches and lots of changement!! LOL

That is NOT corporal punishment. That would be hitting a child.

I am a firm believer in push ups, sit-ups, splits, jumping-jacks, planks, holding arms in second for a few minutes...etc. I do it all the time for misbehaving, "can't," repeated correction, complaining, tardiness... I usually just see what that student needs strengthening on and have them do what will help them.

Misbehaved children in the classroom is not only unacceptable and inefficient, it's also dangerous and out of responsibility to the other students it must be punished. That child cannot go out and sit with the receptionist because they will come in the next week and not have any idea what they are doing. I have sent children out to their parents before, usually for complaining repeatedly, I don't want a toxic attitude to ruin the class for all the other students.

I don't think the statement that it will make the kids feel as though it's a negative thing is valid, because they do all these things anyway and they are told that they are necessary, it's just a matter of the quantity. I think as the child begins to see results it will make them feel good about their hard work and want to work harder.

I'm so sick of all the PC crap that is now accepted as the best way. If you are good you will be rewarded, if you aren't you will get punished...not fair? Actually it's totally fair because everyone has the opportunity to be well-behaved.