In the UK as long as you have the bare minimum to study dance/drama t the highest levelk it all goes on audition, not grades.

In the US, they average grades in a really weird (and inconsistent manner).

A=4.0
B=3.0
C=2.0
D=1.0
F=0

So, say a student has:
2 As 4+4=8
2 Bs 3+3=6
1 C 2

total = 16
5 classes total - 16/5 = 3.2 GPA

That is how it is supposed to work. (My school did a 100 point system based on percentages, then they had to convert it for college applications, I had all As, but not a 100% so I had a 3.96 rather than a 4.0 which lost me some scholarship money...) Other schools give an extra point if you take an honors class, I talked to one person whose school did a 12 point system. So it is not entirely accurate, but around here Colleges look at the GPA and the test scores almost exclusively for admission into the school.

This is a very interesting debate. I decided to drop out of high school when I had problems at home and I know that if it weren't for dance classes my life would be completly different. During my high school years I was depressed and removed from life. Going to dance was the only thing that kept me anchored to the world. Through dance I was able to escape the bad part of my life and because of 1 awesome mentor/teacher (who I never would have known if I hadn't been allowed to participate in dance classes) I was able to pull things together and recieve my h.s. deploma and get into college.

I dont believe that we can always take a "not my problem" approach. I also dont believe that we should be enforcers as we dont always know the background.

But that's just me..

I don't have a GPA requirement for ALL dancers and theatre students. Only for those in our college prep track of classes. The whole point is to prepare them for college musical theatre programs, what good is our training if they can't get in college.

I would probably have a GPA requirement for competitive dancers. They have to have good grades to do school activities, dance competitions should not be any different.

That is the point. It is not for all of the students, but just the competitive students. We would never tell a child that they cannot dance if they do not have high grades, but I think that some are thinking that, like turtletoeshoe.

I had students who struggled in school over the years. I never stopped them from taking class, but if they wanted to be in an intensive program (our ballet company or competition team) they had to have no failing grades.

Now I did not say they had to have high grades, just no failing grades.

I always tell my students there are far to many resources out here to be getting failing grades. So now are competition group has started to form a study group, everyone helping everyone ins subjects they need help in.

I just think it's ridicolous to let students to compete, with failing grades. Nope not on my watch I don't care how bored, smart, tired and everything else you are. If you can commit to dancing, memorizing all the routines, coming to all the rehersals plus make it to the mall etc, etc. Then you can give a little effort towards your studies.

I hate hearing excuses, and I can't stand hearing adults making excuses for students either.

thadancer wrote:

I always tell my students there are far to many resources out here to be getting failing grades. So now are competition group has started to form a study group, everyone helping everyone ins subjects they need help in.

I just think it's ridicolous to let students to compete, with failing grades. Nope not on my watch I don't care how bored, smart, tired and everything else you are. If you can commit to dancing, memorizing all the routines, coming to all the rehersals plus make it to the mall etc, etc. Then you can give a little effort towards your studies.

I hate hearing excuses, and I can't stand hearing adults making excuses for students either.

Amen, sister, I say, "AMEN!"

I made Cs and Bs in Junior High until I wanted to do a musical at the local college with my theatre teachers. My parents said I could do it as long as my grades did not drop, if my grades dropped I would NEVER do anything like it again.

That was all the motivation I needed. I became a straight A student.

This is why I don't think a grade requirement is bad for competitive and conservatory students. It doesn't have to be high, you could even have a students parents help decide where their grades should be. If a students has always been a C student, they just need to maintain that C average.

How often are Grades reported in the US?

Here kids generally get yearly reports but I think a lot of the time they just relate to National Curriculum levels. Not toally sure to be honest as my children are only 5 and 7.

At 16 they take GCSE's and they are Graded A-F.

In the US, kids normally get grade reports every quarter (each 9 weeks). The grades reported on transcripts are semester and yearly grades. If a student is involved in extracurricular activities for school their grades may be reported to their coach more often, even once a month. If at any point in the semester a students grades fall below a certain point they can be put on academic probation from their school activities.

Parents typically get 4 reports a year, but can request more.

Chepyl wrote:

In the US, kids normally get grade reports every quarter (each 9 weeks). The grades reported on transcripts are semester and yearly grades. If a student is involved in extracurricular activities for school their grades may be reported to their coach more often, even once a month. If at any point in the semester a students grades fall below a certain point they can be put on academic probation from their school activities.

Parents typically get 4 reports a year, but can request more.

That is a lot of reporting, how much of their class time is spent assessing them? Our kids get reports twice a year, the grades are based on a few tests taken at various times during the year. Their grades don't nessesarily reflect their ability and certainly dont reflect their effort.

thadancer wrote:

I always tell my students there are far to many resources out here to be getting failing grades. So now are competition group has started to form a study group, everyone helping everyone ins subjects they need help in.

I just think it's ridicolous to let students to compete, with failing grades. Nope not on my watch I don't care how bored, smart, tired and everything else you are. If you can commit to dancing, memorizing all the routines, coming to all the rehersals plus make it to the mall etc, etc. Then you can give a little effort towards your studies.

I hate hearing excuses, and I can't stand hearing adults making excuses for students either.

If a dance teacher in Australia said this, in many cases they would be in big trouble. This would be considered interfering in home and family matters and discrimination against less academic kids.

Kids get graded on everything. We earned points for homework, some classes graded for the correct answer and some for just completing it. We had quizzes scheduled and pop quizzes and tests at the end of chapters. We had final exams at the end of the semester. Those tests were worth 25% of our grade.

The class with the most "evaluating" was English/Literature. We had a quiz each Friday for vocab and spelling, a quiz every other week over the content of the novel we were reading outside of class, a paper over each novel, 1-2 research papers, grammar homework and tests every few weeks, attendance, and participation grades.

History had the least amount of evaluation: 2-4 research projects, a few pop quizzes and a test over each chapter/time period (every 2-3 weeks.)

Everything we did was graded. This works out nicely for most students because you are not graded JUST on a test. Your grades reflect your full learning experience.

RileyA I guess it's great that I don't live in Australia, but you need to re-read all the previous post. I am only truly focusing on my competition students, which is an option and there are many rules and obligations that need to be met. Grades are one of them know one is asking for straight A's just effort.

Oh, and if I am a bad teacher because I want my students to excel in ALL aspects of life, then lock me up I'm guilty.

I have witnessed far to many bad things happen to students, so them knowing that I care even about the grades matters.

My goodness that is a lot of reporting.

I can just imagine the reaction if I asked to see our students school reports!!!!! It is totally none of my business unless one of them gets a pro job and even then it would be between the Education Welfare Officer and the head of the school.

However (and from threads I have seen on here I think maybe things are done differently in the US) comps never clash with schooldays, they are all held on Saturdays and Sundays

Thadancer, please don't think that I am criticizing you. You have chosen what you feel is important to your dancer. Its just that this is a very foreign concept to me, and it seems very strange, which is why I am reacting to it so much. It is interesting for all parties to see that your view point can be very much changed by your own culture.

RileyA wrote:

Thadancer, please don't think that I am criticizing you. You have chosen what you feel is important to your dancer. Its just that this is a very foreign concept to me, and it seems very strange, which is why I am reacting to it so much. It is interesting for all parties to see that your view point can be very much changed by your own culture.

To be honest I don't care if you are or not, I am just very protective of my students. I have seen some horrible things happen to students, and I have made it a personal mission to be a shoulder to lean on.

In american alot of the parents are not involved in their childrens lives, as they were when I was a child. So yeah this subject is so touchy for me, for you but it just shows the difference in cultures that can be so similar at times.

RileyA wrote:

If a dance teacher in Australia said this, in many cases they would be in big trouble. This would be considered interfering in home and family matters and discrimination against less academic kids.

Again, as a fellow Australian I respectfully disagree. I didn't know about dance teacher checking report cards as a requirement for competition team prior to coming on DDN but I think it's a wonderful idea and plan on implementing it myself in a few years when my kids are ready to compete. Quite a lot of students tend to drop out after the age of 12 to 'focus on studies' - I think this is an excellent way to convince the parents that dance study and academic study can go hand-in-hand.

At the studio where I trained, a lot of us did very well in school (averaging 85+/100), and have degrees/currently studying for degrees in the Arts, IT, Science, Health Sciences, Law, Engineering and even Medicine. I've definitely seen a link between smart dancers and smart people in general and look forward to promoting the same in my own students.

I'm not saying that you have to have a degree to be smart, but unless there are serious issues at play I find it hard to believe a competition student could not do well in school. This being said, I've also tutored academic subjects, so I guess my kids really have no excuse because I *know* all the right tools are at their fingertips

When you say "unless there are serious issue's at play, I find it hard to believe a competition student could not do well in school". This is the area that can be of concern. I have no idea how my kids do at school but I am willing to bet that most do well, simply due to the skills that I see that they have. Most kids do do the right thing and do well, if they don't then that in itself is generally an indication that there are serious issue's at play.

Many kids are not even aware that there are tools at their fingertips to help them do better at school if they are not doing well, and many do not even realise they are doing poorly. I know I never was.

I did dreadfully at school, but had no idea. I only knew this later because I still have the old report cards. This being due to my learning and behaviour problems, I had no understanding that there were any kinds of standards academically and none of my teachers had the skills to communicate this to me. I was held back a grade a few times.

But I had my dance, through dance I learned the value of hard work, how to remember things, how to pay attention and how to learn, how to do many things but I couldn't transfer this to school when I was young due to my difficulties. But fortunatly I still had my dance, which gave me the chance to learn and to build my confidence and self esteem.

By my senior year, I was learning to transfer my skills from the dance studio to my school work and I ended up graduating from High school with straight A's and the highest academic results in the school. I did well at school because of dance, if it had have been taken away from me I would not have had anything I cared about to learn from.

Threatening to take it away would not have helped as I did not have the ability or the understanding to change at that time. But I did have dance teachers who stood by me and recognised that I was good at something and gave me a chance to be successful. I am now a successful adult due to nothing I learned at school and everything I learned from my studio.

RileyA wrote:

When you say "unless there are serious issue's at play, I find it hard to believe a competition student could not do well in school". This is the area that can be of concern. I have no idea how my kids do at school but I am willing to bet that most do well, simply due to the skills that I see that they have. Most kids do do the right thing and do well, if they don't then that in itself is generally an indication that there are serious issue's at play.

Which is exactly why I specified "unless there are serious issues at play". Having tutored disadvantaged students before I am quite aware learning disabilities exist and would naturally adapt any academic requirements accordingly if needed. The good news is that the education system is beginning to take them more seriously as well, so what happened to you in the past now is far less likely to happen as a generation of new teachers begin to enter the education field.

glitterfairy wrote:

[q=RileyA] The good news is that the education system is beginning to take them more seriously as well, so what happened to you in the past now is far less likely to happen as a generation of new teachers begin to enter the education field.

Is it really? Its been less than 10 years since I graduated (due to my being held back so often) so my assumption was of course that little had improved. I did not have a learning disability, I have ADHD. In my years of schooling it was clear that teachers and schools had no training, ability or recourses to deal with it at all. I certainly hope this has changed. I was fortunate enough to have a wonderful world that supported me outside of school and I began teaching long before I finished high school so I had the way paved for a career.

ADHD is considered a learning disability. They have medications to treat it that work well for some kids (although many kids are medicated for this when they don't need it). They have also learned a lot about diet management in the treatment of ADD and ADHD. Teachers are much more informed about this problem and kids are tested earlier.

I graduated 12 years ago, my cousin was being treated for ADHD at that time. She had started treatment when we were 10. They were really able to help her, she went on to college and now has a great job that she really enjoys.

If a child has a learning disability I would take that into account in setting their grade requirement because I know that dance can help kids in school. I make sure it does. We have mini math, geometry, history, and French lessons in ballet class. The kids see how their school work connects to something they love and it motivates them to focus better in school.

They say "It takes a village to raise a child", as a dance teacher we are a part of that "village," if we are going to ask a student to make a large time commitment to us for competition or conservatory training, it is up to us to set a standard for their academic work as well. WE need to let them know that school is more important than dance class. There are some things that kids are more likely to believe when it comes from someone other than their parent, and this is one of those things for some kids.

We don't require good grades to be mean and leave kids out of dance, we do it to help them become better more well rounded adults. Not all of our students will go on to be performers, some will want to go to college and I don't want them to regret dancing so much when they can't get into a good school; then they may hold their kids back from dancing later!

I would say that some of the older teachers certainly would still have troubles with 'special needs' children (ADHD or otherwise), but the actual Department of School Education entry requirements have changed for new teachers entering the education industry. I'm sorry you had such a painful experience in school - seems like you weren't the only one and it's good that things have changed. Here are a few links from the big NSW universities: (all these are core units, not electives)

http://www.usyd.edu.au/handbooks/education_social_work/04_Education_Units_of_Study.shtml wrote:

EDUF3031 Positive Approaches to Special Education

This unit addresses issues relating to the education of students with special education needs. They include the impact of the philosophy and principles of inclusive education and current legislation, evidence based approaches to curriculum, teaching and learning practices for students with special education needs. A specific focus is given to managing challenging behaviours of students in a range of settings.

http://www.handbook.mq.edu.au/2009/Undergraduate/Units/Unit.php?UnitCode=TEP248 wrote:

TEP248: Key Competencies in Special Education

This unit focuses on five main areas: inclusive communities, inclusive schools, inclusive classrooms, developing resilient learners and becoming an inclusive teacher. Competencies in classroom behaviour management and data-based instruction are addressed. Emphasis is placed on strategies that will equip teachers working in regular classes to design and implement programs of instruction for a diverse range of children with special needs. This unit provides a firm foundation for students interested in pursuing further studies in Special Education. Students intending to teach within state schools must include this unit in their course of study in order to meet current Department of School Education requirements

http://www.handbook.unsw.edu.au/undergraduate/courses/2009/SAED2405.html wrote:

Special Education in Art and Design Contexts - SAED2405

Special Education in Art and Design Contexts extends and develops the pre-service teacher's experiences, attitudes and understandings of students with special and/or high support needs in the secondary school. Through in-class workshops, field trips, and hands on projects, students enhance their understanding of ways in which art and design can enhance the educational experiences of the special needs student. The Life-Skills component of syllabuses in Visual Arts, Design, and related subjects are introduced with regard to provision of appropriate experiences for students with special needs. The course, following a non-categorical approach, includes consideration of the psychology and special educational needs of students with mild and moderate intellectual disabilities and those with physical disabilities. It also includes the diagnosis and description of physical and learning disabilities and the role of and possibilities for art and design education in providing positive, supportive and inclusive educational choices and experiences for all students.

Granted, I still think teachers in Australia need more support and resources. There are lots of education students graduating now, but unfortunately the majority of those will still burn out after their first 1-5 years of teaching until further changes are made...