On occasion I notice twirlers who continue to twirl their second baton while picking up a dropped baton, and think to myself that it is a reflex, or an automatic action. But recently a judge advised a student to do this. As a former competitor, and current judge and coach, I've never heard of this (nor do I penalize for someone "stopping" the second baton).

While scrolling thru the USTA rules for another post topic, I came across this in the 3 baton section:
"There is no deduction in score for stopping batons while retrieving a dropped baton."

There was a similar one for 2 baton.

Question to any NBTA judges: Are you counting the stopped baton as a break?

To me I find that it is distracting and causes even further disruption to the routine than the drop itself did. And in a 3 baton routine, if only one drops, is it really expected that the other 2 batons need to keep moving? So the two batons are in one hand while the other hand retrieves the dropped baton? In a high level 3 baton routine, it is rare/infrequent to see two batons in one hand being twirled (i.e. reverses)....

Just curious what the thinking is out there. Would hate to see a crazy "policy" go forth just because one judge made a comment and anyone who gets the comment, who then starts to coach and/or judge, then perpetuates the crazy policy.

You might think this is a common sense issue. However, when a twirler gets the comment on the score sheet to "keep batons in continuous motion", they wonder "Even when I pick up the drop?"
Thanks for bringing this up for clarification.
DM

divamom1 wrote:

You might think this is a common sense issue. However, when a twirler gets the comment on the score sheet to "keep batons in continuous motion", they wonder "Even when I pick up the drop?"
Thanks for bringing this up for clarification.
DM

That's exactly what I'm worried about too! Yikes - can you imagine?!

This is pretty interesting...
I think when I drop the second baton I just run after it and stop everything I am doing (after I catch the first).
not sure how things are down to the south (lol) but here the CBTF sheets for two baton have a little box for checking NOT TWO BATON, meaning you have only twirled one baton and for this it affects the score you recive.

I cannot imagine that any organization would penalize for it. I, too, agree that it would cause even more distraction. I say go pick up your baton and when you get back start the routine back up.

I do know of judges around here who call it a break(at least in 2baton)

I personally don't mark off for it when I am judging, but I know
judges that will call it a break. I also know judges/coaches who have told their kids NOT to use the other baton to "stop" or help get the dropped baton.....ya know when its rolling away and you put the end of the other one in front of it to stop it and pull it towards you.

I do tell my kids to try to remember to keep that 2nd baton moving if it doesn't mess them up. Say they drop it at their feet and they can easily scoop it up - or if it drop bounces back up easy to them.

But I don't think it should be a penalty to go get a baton that is dropped......oh wait it is a penalty of .5!!!! So why should the be double penalized????lol

CoachT wrote:

I also know judges/coaches who have told their kids NOT to use the other baton to "stop" or help get the dropped baton.....ya know when its rolling away and you put the end of the other one in front of it to stop it and pull it towards you.

Hmmm... this just happened to one of my students. Granted I don't teach this, but what's the harm? Shouldn't we want them to pick up the dropped baton as quickly as possible, and perhaps it keeps the baton from rolling into another lane, in front of another twirler? Or it keeps the twirler from crawling around under the judge's table? Seems really picky. (and if the baton is stopped, while picking up another, does it really matter if it then touches the floor, but remains in full-hand control?)

I dont know where that started, but as a usta judge and the rulebook states what was stated above.... like Jennifer said.. go get that baton and start back up.

How do you know when the comment was written? I make that comment when 1 baton is simply held while the other is being tossed and/or caught. There should be cont. mvmnt. of both batons. Perhaps the comment was overheard by the twirler while picking up the 2nd baton (?). When I judge, I sometimes make comments during that time, so I do not distract the twirler during the performance.
For performances, like on a stage or a football field, keeping the other baton moving while picking up the baton is a great idea. Some spectators may not notice the mistake if there was twirling/entertaining at the time. Recovery is a great skill to teach and learn.
I am wondering, however, if the judges for 3baton (at AYOP) marked ANY penalties for batons not moving. I have a suspicion that the variety and difficulty was not even considered during scoring... Juggling is not that hard. It's the intricacy and the timing, the variety of tosses and receptions, and inclusion of bodywork, which increases the difficulty. Holding 2 batons in 1 hand while twirling the 3rd baton does not make it quality 3 baton. (I did not see all 3 baton divisions. This is my perception of 1 division in particular.) Food for thought, I guess.

dancin_t wrote:

How do you know when the comment was written? I make that comment when 1 baton is simply held while the other is being tossed and/or caught.

In this instance the judge actually told (verbally) the twirler. It was not written on the score sheet.

IMHO I would say, get the baton on the floor and recover as quickly as possible. I have to admit though, once while judging a local contest I saw the greatest recovery ever. A twirler dropped her baton right at her feet. She did a high aerial with an illusion and just scooped up the dropped second baton and got right back into her routine. I found her later and told her what a great recovery she made. Just like in dance, cheering, theater, skating or anything else; the drop/break is only half of the problem, your recovery is what can make you or break you when it comes down to it.

ATLtwirlerguy wrote:

A twirler dropped her baton right at her feet. She did a high aerial with an illusion and just scooped up the dropped second baton and got right back into her routine.

I've seen this in performances -- the twirlers who 'get it' in regards to performances can do this with ease (along with doing a little dance if twirling one baton, dropping it, and dancing over to pick it up, all as if intended).

In NBTA, AAU and TU (DMA?) this might be tougher unless the twirler can gauge how long the 'extra trick' takes and make an adjustment to the routine so s/he doesn't run overtime. (no musical cues to let one know when the time limit is being reached)