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4th position en>fr fr>en
By tonydanza Comments: 179, member since Wed Apr 07, 2004
On Fri Sep 04, 2009 07:06 PM

when you have your dancers pirouette from fourth, do you have them in an open fourth (lined up with first) or more of a crossed fourth (lined up with third? And, in that case, when do you use an open fourth versus a crossed fourth?

8 Replies to 4th position

re: 4th position en>fr fr>en
By denea33190 Comments: 173, member since Mon Jan 07, 2008
On Fri Sep 04, 2009 07:28 PM
We do a crossed 4th ( from third) always.
re: 4th position en>fr fr>en
By Sumayah Comments: 3559, member since Wed Nov 12, 2008
On Fri Sep 04, 2009 07:48 PM
Generally if they're ready for a pirouette from 4th I teach it crossed, because I generally teach it from a tombe pas de bourree or facing en face and tendu a la seconde and demi rond de jambe to 4th. However when I first introduce 4th in plies I teach it open and cross it once they have control over their weight placement and hip alignment.
re: 4th position en>fr fr>en
By Dream_chaserPremium member Comments: 20842, member since Thu Jul 26, 2001
On Fri Sep 04, 2009 08:06 PM
I will use a closed fourth. I have a tendency to do pirouettes more from fifth than fourth, because it is harder to turn from fifth and cheat and easier to cheat in fourth (as you know) but once they do, opposite fifth, or third if needed.
re: 4th position en>fr fr>en
By MissSharon73 Comments: 1149, member since Fri Mar 02, 2007
On Fri Sep 04, 2009 09:45 PM
I too stress from 5th, but in ATF combos, I tend to do crossed 4th so that the leg muscles (adductors mainly) are engaged. I teach open 4th to my kids ranging in grades 4-6 primarily...
re: 4th position en>fr fr>en
By hummingbird Comments: 4353, member since Tue Apr 19, 2005
On Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:00 PM
If you try to do both styles of turns yourself you'll feel that you get a much better push off if you use a crossed 4th, open 4th isn't the way.
re: 4th position en>fr fr>en
By tonydanza Comments: 179, member since Wed Apr 07, 2004
On Sat Sep 05, 2009 08:17 AM
That is interesting. I don't always specify which fourth I am asking for, even though I do specify that there are two ways to do it. I probably should monitor that better. If I do specify, like during a pirouette, I usually will say open it up more because I think they can feel their weight better and have a more stable base to push from. However, I do realize that is the easy way to do it and that narrowing the base makes the turn more difficult. Like to do a pirouette from fifth, it is much harder, but if they can do it the hard way, they should have no problem with the easier ways. Hmmm...very interesting.
re: 4th position en>fr fr>en
By lidwinaPremium member Comments: 5845, member since Sat Dec 30, 2006
On Sat Sep 05, 2009 01:23 PM
Depends on where they come from to get in fourth.
From fifth to fourth, or with a rond de jambe to fourth = closed fourth.
From first to fourth = open fourth.
re: 4th position en>fr fr>en
By Frogdogdance Comments: 691, member since Mon Nov 12, 2007
On Mon Sep 07, 2009 09:41 PM
I'm with JLL in preferring to have them turn from 5th cuz it's harder to cheat! However, we always use 4th croise--across from 5th, not 3rd--with the weight shifted onto the front foot, because then they just have to releve straight up. In 4th ouverte, they have to shift sideways as well = more potential to lose their center.

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