Hey guys I am a senior in college and I am on the NDA dance team there, I also teach classes. When we were practicing our pirouettes at dance team practice today my captain said our foot is in parallel in fourth and corrected me. I said no the foot in turned out in fourth before we turn and she said that is only in ballet( turned out posse) turns. I have been taught to turn out my foot before any type of turn for jazz or ballet. Am I right or have I've been taught wrong jazz pirouettes? Maybe its just a NDA dance team thing but I find it hard to believe they would change technique for just college teams.

I teach all of my pirouettes with a turned out 4th position, so the dancers have a deeper plie (aka more power!).

I was always taught and now teach that the preparation should match the turn. If you are doing a parallel turn, the preparation should be parallel, if you are doing a pirouette turned out, then the preparation should be turned out.

I've taken Jazz classes all over the world and in my personal experience that has been the consensus.

I teach all of my jazz pirouettes from parallel, the only thing I have ever seen done differently is the back heel up or down, never a parallel turn from a turned out prep

Triskit wrote:

I was always taught and now teach that the preparation should match the turn. If you are doing a parallel turn, the preparation should be parallel, if you are doing a pirouette turned out, then the preparation should be turned out.

Same experience here.

hmmmm that is so weird....I've tried to turn that way and just can't see to do it as good, I'm not used to it, I was always taught the deeper the plie the better...thanks for letting me know but I think it might be too late to change it now its like second nature for me to turn out before lol

You may get a deeper plie' if you release the back heel.

^ agreed. You can actually get a much deeper plie parallel with the front foot flat and that back foot on forced arch (on the ball of the foot - heel raised). Keep the legs hip with apart or slightly wider and drop straight down. The legs should make 90 degree angles with the shin of the back leg parallel to the floor.

This is a very strong position if you hold your center and push off the back leg, lifting the knee high as you releve you have a lot of force to work with for multiple turns.

In ballet; retire is turned out, your prep is turned out in ballet.
In jazz; if your passe is turned out, your prep is turned out. If your passe is parallel, your prep is parallel.

Some teachers do teach the heel down in back, I teach heel up.

Geez I'm totally out of the loop I was taught to NEVER lift your heel up too in both styles. Wait til my old teacher/SO hears this! lol

In ballet, your heel should be down. In Jazz, sometimes the heel is lifted, but as others said that is to get a deeper plie in the parallel position. In a turned out fourth you get a deep plie without lifting your heel and you are more well centered with the heel down.

Triskit wrote:

I was always taught and now teach that the preparation should match the turn. If you are doing a parallel turn, the preparation should be parallel, if you are doing a pirouette turned out, then the preparation should be turned out.

I've taken Jazz classes all over the world and in my personal experience that has been the consensus.

Exactly for me too, if it's a turned out passe, the prep is turned out, parallel passe, prep is parallel. Then you get the ones who try to cheat it by turning in :/

I also was taught to never lift heel but only in ballet. In jazz I find that the "rules" are sometimes bent, and I agree with those that say that in jazz if a turn is parallel then you can begin in parallel 4th, and heel can be raised for a deeper plie. Personally after so many years saying don't lift your heel during plie's I would not execute this! I still begin my class in turned out 4th for a deeper proper plie.

I forgot to say, in regards on whether or not to have back heel up, this is what we do:

If the prep is a ballchange, then the back heel is up. You know, Ball change turn. But if it's just a step forward into 4th prep, the heel is down. Does that make sense?

Chepyl wrote:

In ballet, your heel should be down. In Jazz, sometimes the heel is lifted

Right...you wouldn't lift the heel in turned out fourth.

Might be helpful:

www.youtube.com . . .


www.liveatbdcdownloads.com . . .

As for the heel up/down debate, I have NEVER been taught to life my heel (unless the prep was a ball change), and it's the one thing I'm always yelling at my students about. "Heels down!" Jazz or ballet, heel's down in my book.

And as for whether the foot is turned out or in, I agree with all the others who said the prep matches the turn. I personally prefer turned out turns though, so I rarely use a parallel turn, even in jazz.

Triskit - thanks for the links.

You are the turn guru.

Hijack question....

When you are doing a turned out pirouette en de hors, do you have your students use the little toe pressing against the knee in passe (without causing the foot to sickle) so that the knee can assist in pulling the turn around.

I have had a couple of ballet instructors use this, but looking at Michelle's video, the students are barely touching the knee in passe'.

I know that the spotting is primary, but does the pressing back in the knee help too?

reneep wrote:

Geez I'm totally out of the loop I was taught to NEVER lift your heel up too in both styles. Wait til my old teacher/SO hears this! lol

I think I was misunderstood...Of course your heel is never lifted in ballet. I didn't clarify that because I guess I assumed that everyone knows that. Sorry.

As for pirouettes and sickles; I always teach heel forward and knee back (work the opposition), with the baby toe barely touching under the knee. If you lift the retire and use the opposition and rotation, it helps the turn. When you jam your toe into your knee, which I have been taught also, I don't feel lifted or turned out.

tutujazzy wrote:

I always teach heel forward and knee back (work the opposition), with the baby toe barely touching under the knee. If you lift the retire and use the opposition and rotation, it helps the turn. When you jam your toe into your knee, which I have been taught also, I don't feel lifted or turned out.

Thank you. That's exactly what I wanted to know.

I do the same as tutujazzy. High retire, heel forward, knee back. I don't emphasize pressing the toe against the knee. I have had teachers who taught this, but I never found it to help me personally. I find that the kids are more prone to sit in the hip when pressing.