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re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By LeSoulierVertmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Tue Nov 03, 2009 07:05 PM
I, too, believe that people are completely over-reacting. I bet she wouldn't have gotten crap if she went as Oprah, or Rosa Parks or Langstun Hughes. It seems to me that Lil Waynes personal behavior is playing into this, and perhaps the fact that she is a white woman dressing up as a black man. But either way she was just dressing up as someone else for halloween... Plain and simple.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By MaxwellPremium member
On Tue Nov 03, 2009 07:26 PM
I was out on Saturday night and there were a couple of girls dressed as smurfs. They had blue body paint...

How on earth can you make a comparison like that?! Smurfs are fictional characters, not a race of people victimized by years of prejudice and oppresion. Blackface isn't offensive because you're simply painting yourself a different color, it is offensive because it has a long history of being used for offensive purposes.

I don't get how just because she was dressed up as a "specific black person" it is okay. Blackface is blackface. You can sit there and complain about how her costume wouldn't look right all you want, but you can't have this post-racial world I keep hearing about while being grossly racially insensitive. It just doesn't work that way. Consider someone's feelings besides your own for a change and deal with it.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween (karma: 2)
By ConUnaSonrisamember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Tue Nov 03, 2009 07:39 PM
Katydid, I'm not sure if the "you" in your second paragraph was directed at me, so I'll reply just in case. You claim "blackface is blackface." Well...

dictionary.com wrote:

┬ľnoun
1. Theater.
a. an entertainer, esp. one in a minstrel show, made up in the role of a black.
b. the makeup, as burnt cork, used in this role: They performed in blackface.
2. Printing. a heavy-faced type.


So, to sum that up, in Whitney's case, by dictionary definition, she was not in blackface. I'm honestly not sure how her costume was "racially insensitive." What part of it is racially insensitive? Just because she got darker? I'm really really tan and one of my black friends is extremely light skinned for her race. She's an LA Lakers dancer. If I wanted to dress up as her, and I tanned myself SLIGHTLY more, would that be a big deal? Would I be being racially insensitive?

Whitney was not mocking Lil' Wayne. On America's Next Top Model, JUST LAST WEEK, they were having the girls portray women of mixed races. They painted some of them. Is anyone going to raise a hissy fit at America's Next Top Model for being "racially insensitve"? Seriously? Some of y'all need to get your panties out of your butt. I'm Native American and I didn't start sobbing when my sister's dance team dressed as Cowboys and Indians this Halloween and some of them painted themselves red. And I can sit here and cry that Native Americans (especially in Canada!) were treated just as poorly as African Americans in the past. So yeah I'M A MINORITY but you don't see me getting all uppity about it.

/end grr.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween (karma: 1)
By Snuffymember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Nov 03, 2009 07:40 PM
Edited by Snuffy (189942) on 2009-11-03 19:42:54
In the most recent episode of America's Next Top Model, they did a high fashion photo shoot in which each girl depicted someone from a combination of two different races/cultures. Some of the costuming included white girls wearing dark body paint to complete the look. Is this offensive since it's using the same paint and not depicting a famous individual?

Oh, and I agree with OP that brown body paint is not black-face. Let's call a spade a spade here, okay? Whether or not you find it offensive is one thing, but if you're going to argue this on account of it being black-face, then this doesn't do much to support the argument.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By ConUnaSonrisamember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Tue Nov 03, 2009 07:42 PM
Hahahha OMG Snuffy!! I can't believe we posted the exact same thing at the exact same time! This is brilliant!

/end hijack of my own thread lol
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Snuffymember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Nov 03, 2009 07:43 PM
^LOL! Great minds think alike! :)
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By SOADftwmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Tue Nov 03, 2009 07:48 PM
not a race of people victimized by years of prejudice and oppresion.

Wasn't my idea. Wasn't any of my ancestor's ideas.

blackface is blackface

Yeah, but what she did isn't technically blackface. She darkened her skin.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By LeSoulierVertmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Tue Nov 03, 2009 09:32 PM
Is it only PC to dress up as someone of your own race and/or races that your race hasn't oppressed in the past? If so, that's RIDICULOUS. I'm pretty sure my ancestors have oppressed about every race, and I know that some of my different ancestoral lines oppressed each other!
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Meganmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Nov 03, 2009 09:36 PM
As I stated in my original post, I think the fashion spreads were in poor taste too. I'm not about to start deriding the girl up and down the Internet or anything, I just don't think it was the smartest idea anyone's ever had.

And for the record, one of my friends went as a rapper for Halloween, and his costume worked just fine without painting his face:

Spoiler: Show
Image hotlink - 'http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs086.snc3/15346_197172800545_581555545_4417638_2867335_n.jpg'
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By MissErinDmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:56 PM
^yeah, but she didn't go as just a rapper. She went as a specific person. I'll willing to bet that if the tables were turned, a black individual lightening their skin there would have been not nearly as much controversy. One of my friends went as Oprah last year. Do I, as a white person, not have the RIGHT to dress up for Halloween as a person who happens to be a different ethnicity? Get over yourselves. She was not blackfacing.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By kaymember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:18 PM
I like how the newswoman in the video said Little Wayne.


IT'S LIL' WAYNE YO!!!
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween (karma: 1)
By Snuffymember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:18 PM
Edited by Snuffy (189942) on 2009-11-03 23:22:15 grammar
If a black person dressed as Eminem for Halloween, they'd probably have to wear the same kind of body paint, but in a really pale colour, to obviously be Eminem. We live in a world in which people have different skin colours, different hair colours, different eye colours... you name it, there's going to be diversity in it. Merely emulating the physical characteristics of a particular celebrity isn't offensive. A dark coloured body paint does not equate to blackface. Everything isn't always black and white (excuse the pun); you can't just write something off as offensive and then apply irrelevant historical attributes to it. Was the girl making fun of black people? Was she giving a nod to blackface? Or was she just going for a Halloween costume that showed a little effort and looked quite different to her everyday self?

I'm going to bet that this girl didn't even think there'd be a problem with her outfit. I bet she assumed it'd be fine because she didn't think it was blackface (because it's not!). I bet she assumed it'd be fine because she wasn't trying to offend anyone, because she didn't think that dressing as a particular musical star would be construed as making a racist statement about a particular group of people. I bet she didn't think that people would be up in arms trying to defend people who probably don't need to be defended over dark toned body paint - people who think that the world should be raceless when in fact this is not possible (especially not in 2009). Instead we should be striving for racismlessness, where real issues matter, and issues of body paint are not taken to mean something that they weren't intended to mean.

By all means, engage in intelligent discussion about difference and respect, history and art, but bear in mind that the Halloween costume of one individual doesn't necessarily mean what you think it means in some fit of mistaken rage. Plenty of Americans of this age-group haven't heard of blackface, and plenty of them who have heard of it are terribly confused as to what blackface actually is. To assume that dark toned body paint is the same as blackface is to be almost as blind to these issues as someone who has never heard of blackface in their life.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By hylndlasmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:04 AM
Edited by hylndlas (107168) on 2009-11-04 00:06:58
Emma wrote:

Prince Harry once dressed as a Nazi and a whole pile of people got a whole pile of pissy over that.



Darn...I was going to bring this up. Oh well. Anyways....I can see why both are offensive. And yes it's times like these where I wonder "What were you thinking!!"

Obviously not in this case.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By moara
On Wed Nov 04, 2009 07:51 AM
This kind of thing happens just about every halloween. Some young person darkens their skin for a costume, and then there's a huge media blitz.
I think it just shows what a poor job we are doing as a society at educating the general public about the history of racism. I know I didn't find out about blackface until 3rd year university when there was a similar media outcry.
I think we either need to better educate people so that they're aware of these kinds of racial missteps, or else embrace the fact that almost all of the younger generation sees no problem, and bear no ill will in emulating someone of a different race.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Emmamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Nov 04, 2009 08:28 AM
Katydid13 wrote:

I was out on Saturday night and there were a couple of girls dressed as smurfs. They had blue body paint...

How on earth can you make a comparison like that?!


Because she was colouring herself for a costume, not to be offensive, but to get an authentic costume, and not in the same way as the blackface performers, it was only similar in that she had to paint her skin darker, in my opinion, it was way more similar to the smurf girls than the blackface performers.

Oh, and while we're at this... how come they were actually allowed to release tropic thunder if the whole concept is so offensive?!?!
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween (karma: 1)
By Chaconnemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:34 AM
^For those not in the US, where this is a hot button issue, the whole issue of portraying persons of African heritage has a long and shameful history. Even movies which used actual African Americans (e.g. Bill "Bojangles" Robinson, "Stepin Fetchit") often did this in a parody. Even legitimate advertising in the 1940's would only portray African Americans as maids or railway porters (porter were almost exclusively African American males) had the implication that they were subservient.

White actors who did use blackface (Eddie Cantor was the most famous) while often sympathetic, were still trading on unfortunate stereotypes. This has historically been a sensitive subject among African Americans who, like almost everyone else, do not like to see themselves parodied. I am an American White of German ethnicity. I do not enjoy seeing either Americans or Germans parodied. Even portraying someone like Adolf Hitler as a buffoon (as did Charlie Chaplin) has it's danger in selling the person short. The people who first thought Hitler a buffoon based upon parodies of him, were among the persons victimized by him. Just as a parody of a Black gives a false sense of the persons' true worth, so does a parody of a tyrannt give us a false picture of the evil such a person could do.

When I worked in intelligence, and my area at the time was the Middle East, a wise boss told us to take down all the cartoons we had which protrayed Arabs as stupid, cowardly, poor soldiers, for as he said, when we do not take our enemy seriously, is when he can hurt us the most. Osama Bin Laden proved that to be true.

To portray a person in blackface likewise parodies a stereotype which is outmoded, or more likely, never true in most cases, and denigrates the value of a person as a human being.

Jon
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By CheesePlusCakemember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:39 AM
Eh. I think Americans just like to be offended. She doesn't seem to mean any harm, and she wasn't making fun of a race. I was Kelly Kapoor from the Office a few years ago for Halloween...and yes I painted my skin. No, I didn't get remarks about being offensive... My Indian friends thought it was a great costume. I was Kelly, and my friends were Dwight and Angela.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Kekoamember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:53 AM
I don't find it particularly offensive, just horrendously ugly.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By MaxwellPremium member
On Wed Nov 04, 2009 05:17 PM
It was directed at you hkqt, just kind of in general, but I appreciate your response. :)

What part of it is racially insensitive? Just because she got darker?

No, because she painted herself to look like a black person, which, as I said before, has a bad history.

I'm really really tan and one of my black friends is extremely light skinned for her race. She's an LA Lakers dancer. If I wanted to dress up as her, and I tanned myself SLIGHTLY more, would that be a big deal? Would I be being racially insensitive?

Pretty much.

SOADftw wrote:


Wasn't my idea. Wasn't any of my ancestor's ideas. .

Point being? That doesn't give you a free pass to be racist.

Is it only PC to dress up as someone of your own race and/or races that your race hasn't oppressed in the past?

First of all, can we please agree as a society to stop refusing to act like decent human beings in the name of avoiding anything with the label PC like the plague? I recognize that there is a line of ridiculous uptightness we don't need to cross, but this is way ahead of the line, and I feel like political correctness has just become an annoying buzzword used to justify oppression and prejudice.

You can dress up as someone who happens to be a member of another race, like the rapper in the video, but it would just be in the best interest's of eradicated racism if you didn't paint your face, for reasons I have already stated three times.


Because she was colouring herself for a costume, not to be offensive, but to get an authentic costume, and not in the same way as the blackface performers, it was only similar in that she had to paint her skin darker, in my opinion, it was way more similar to the smurf girls than the blackface performers.

You can be offensive without trying to be offensive. Intent really doesn't matter. I'm pretty sure Virginia governor-elect Bob McDonnell wasn't purposefully trying to offend women when he wrote this, but he still did, and he still owes women an apology.

And in conclusion...
Oh, and while we're at this... how come they were actually allowed to release tropic thunder if the whole concept is so offensive?!?!

I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about whatsoever, because I live under a rock. :D But to give it a shot, if the movie contained blackface in a non-historical demonstration manner, it was probably because we still live in a predominantly white country full of racism.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Ampersandmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Nov 04, 2009 05:31 PM
Emma wrote:


Oh, and while we're at this... how come they were actually allowed to release tropic thunder if the whole concept is so offensive?!?!


Because Robert Downey Jr. wasn't playing a black man, he was playing a white actor who in order to get the role he wants has his pigmentation changed to become black. I'm not saying this is necessarily any better, but it is arguably an integral part of the story. It still did cause a lot of controversy if I remember correctly though.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween (karma: 2)
By LeSoulierVertmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Wed Nov 04, 2009 05:31 PM
Edited by LeSoulierVert (121625) on 2009-11-04 18:09:01
^(To Katydid13) Nobody in this thread is defending racism!! We aren't trying to be oppressive and we aren't trying to keep prejudice alive. I think most of us are trying to say the exact opposite! This woman was a person. She decided to dress up as another person. She did it very convincingly when she added brown to her skin. She was not degrading Lil Wayne or African Americans or her foot ball team, she was dressing up as Lil Wayne for halloween!!

Try to see it from her side. If we can't even dress up as each other for halloween, racism is going to stay alive. I think what she did is awesome, because it really is not a big deal, and people saying it is a big deal is just pointing out that people really define themselves by their race and are really uncomfortable when someone steps out of that zone. If I can be Billy Murray for Halloween, I should also be able to be Chris Rock.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Emmamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Nov 04, 2009 05:50 PM
Edited by Emma (114649) on 2009-11-04 17:58:02 I pressed reply before the last two replies posted... so I didn't read them.
Tropic Thunder

I was quite offended by a lot of Tropic Thunder, because I couldn't believe they could be so "un-PC". I thought it was a really horrible film and had absolutely no idea how they got away with it when I first watched it.

Whether or not the people who made the film are racist or not, they made that film, and they showed a guy who coloured his skin to play a white guy playing a black guy in method acting (make sense?!) It was completely ludicrous, and poking fun at actors and costuming, and a whole pile of other stuff, but it was still poking fun at something. Was it in a mean way? I'm not sure... That uncertainty made me hate the film.

Poking fun is what costuming is about, having a bit of a laugh while looking a nothing like your normal self. If it's meant in a mean way, that's not cool, if it's not, then fair enough, work away.

Jon's post was well written, and helped me see a little better from another perspective that I hadn't thought about, however he spoke of taking enemies seriously.

I don't take myself too seriously when I dress up for halloween, and I don't expect others to either. I think that some things are meant in an offensive way and those should be taken seriously, because they are the actions of your true enemies, but this was an unintentional hurt, and when I hurt someone unintentionally, I still apologise, so I agree that she should, but I disagree that this merited the headlines in the first place.

Edit: Ampersand, ummm... the point I was making was that Tropic Thunder showed a white man who darkened his skin, and surely it's offensive no matter how the story is wound around it? Although as I've said, I thought the whole film was atrocious, so yeah...
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By SOADftwmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Wed Nov 04, 2009 06:14 PM
I agree 100% with LeSoulierVert.

Point being? That doesn't give you a free pass to be racist

I'd like to know how I'm being racist.

No, because she painted herself to look like a black person, which, as I said before, has a bad history.

Every. Single. Race. Has a "bad history." So we all have to dress up as our own race for Halloween? I can't be an Aztec? I can't be ORen Ishii? What about Oprah?

I'm actually really curious about my Oprah costume. Is it ok that I went as Oprah because she "acts white?" Lil Wayne "acts black" so a white person going as him is more of a "difference." Is that how it works?

It's a free country. If you want to put brown on your skin and go out for Halloween, why does it have to be a huge deal? I'm just really surprised that this made headlines. I can't even imagine how many people have done this before.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Munkensteinmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Nov 04, 2009 06:19 PM
All I'll say is that just because something was offensive once doesn't mean it has to stay that way...especially when the so-called perpetrator didn't even do the "offensive thing" exactly or purposefully. I really think that flipping out about this one girl's costume and making a huge deal about it is what perpetuates negative racial feelings more than anything. Racism won't be a problem any longer when people have all gotten over themselves and quit jumping on every little thing as being "racist" when it's not.

There's a freaking "controversy" going on in my city right now about a dress code at a club. The dress code basically states that you can't wear huge pants, pants can't be sagging, chains must be tucked in, t-shirts can't be super long and oversized, no gang apparel, and no visors or hats except for promotional gear. That's about it. Somebody is now suing the club because the dress code is apparently racist...and some guy actually claimed that the club refused entry to a few white guys not because they were breaking the dress code, but because they were trying to be black, which inherently meant breaking the dress code. So apparently being black means you don't wear clothes that fit and can't pull your pants up......I guess I missed that memo. Oh, and this guy also called white people "racist nazis." AMAZING, huh? Good lord, these idiots are really helping their cause. *eye roll*

And now I'm going to listen to Cartman singing Poker Face again because it's cracking me up way too much.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By punkgirl59
On Wed Nov 04, 2009 06:35 PM
When my brother was 7 (25 years ago), he wanted to be Hank Aaron for Halloween. He dressed up as a baseball player with an "Aaron" jersey, and my parents painted his face and arms black. My 7 year-old brother and my poor parents were not trying to be offensive and racist, and nobody took it that way. Fact was, my brother was dressing as his favorite baseball player, who happened to have darker skin than he did. We even lived in Atlanta at the time, and nobody made a fuss about it. I see this as the same thing. Not quite the same as blackfacing, in my opinion.

~*~Punkgirl~*~

Long live punk rocK
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