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re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween (karma: 5)
By Incarnadinemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Nov 11, 2009 08:18 PM
Edited by Incarnadine (15186) on 2009-11-11 21:46:14
I tend to think people blow these sorts of things out of proportion and act all huffy and offended so they can pat themselves on the back as a champion for humanity or something. It’s about them, not the actual issue.

White people are particularly guilty of this.
It’s kind of like:
“Hey African Americans (or insert any other historically oppressed minority group here)- look at meeee… I’m one of the “good” white people!!!”

LOL. Seriously.

If she ACTUALLY did black face I’d be disgusted with her. But she didn’t, and I think it’s clear that was not her intent at all.

Get over it.

If you want to pat yourself on the back- go fight REAL racism- which mind you- is unfortunately alive and well. Put your money where your mouth is and quit wasting your time and energy pretending to be offended over dumb crap and fake-ro-versies like this.

NOTE:
This is my general response/reaction, and NOT directed at anyone in particular… However, you’re all more than welcome to be offended by it. *giggle*
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Krystalmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:42 AM
Edited by Krystal (73000) on 2009-11-12 11:43:12
Okay, so I read all the comments on the first and second pages and don't really care to read anything else. I think I have a good idea of what I'm going to say.

IT'S FREAKING HALLOWEEN. WHO CARES.

When you dress up for Halloween, don't you ALWAYS dress up as someone you're not? Isn't that the point of the stupid holiday anyway? I'm more worried about the slutty, butt-showing, boobs-hanging-out costumes girls are wearing now than if someone paints their face black and dresses up as Lil Wayne.

Move on, people. What about people who dress up as geishas? Indians? Rednecks? Sumo wrestlers? Are they at fault too?
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween (karma: 1)
By MarlaSingermember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:01 PM
Incarnadine, I agree with you 110%. And I think now is a good time for everyone to read this: stuffwhitepeoplelike.com . . .

Sound familiar? :)
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By HighlandHottie05member has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:10 PM
I don't see what the big deal is? She clearly isnt racist, maybe just not the brightest. If she was racist do you think she would waste a costume trying to be lil wayne? no.

On another note (i say this with no offence to black people)..but why does media make such a big deal about racism against blacks? If a black person were to dress up as a white person no one would give a da*n.. I just don't get it. You know how black people have the TV station "Black Entertainment Telivion (BET)".. well if we made a "WET" (white entertainment telivision).. media would critisize us and we would probably get sued.. I don't get why it's always a bigger deal for black people. White people get discrimanated for skin colour too. Everyone does.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Incarnadinemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:56 PM
Edited by Incarnadine (15186) on 2009-11-12 12:57:56
stuffwhitepeoplelike.com . . .

Highlights from Jonelle's link:

Stuff White People Like - #101: Being Offended
… As a rule, white people strongly prefer to get offended on behalf of other people.
…It is also valuable to know that white people spend a significant portion of their time preparing for the moment when they will be offended. They read magazines, books, and watch documentaries all in hopes that one day they will encounter a person who will say something offensive. When this happens, they can leap into action with quotes, statistics, and historical examples. Once they have finished lecturing another white person about how it’s wrong to use the term “black” instead of “African-American,” they can sit back and relax in the knowledge that they have made a difference.
… All of which do an excellent job of raising awareness among white people who hope to change their status from “not racist” to “super not racist.”
…Another thing worth noting is that the threshold for being offended is a very important tool for judging and ranking white people.


HILARIOUS. Even though this was clearly meant to be tongue and cheek- I actually agree 100% with the author. You’re getting karma for linking to this.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Cienmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 02:11 PM
So some people are offended by this, and some aren't. Great. Can we agree to disagree now, and maybe tone down the whole making-fun-of-the-offended-people thing?

P.S. I LOVE Stuff White People Like. I bought the book as a gift for two friends. I just don't really appreciate being told that my being mildly offended by something I find really tacky is a joke. :?
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween (karma: 3)
By Incarnadinemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 02:47 PM
Edited by Incarnadine (15186) on 2009-11-12 14:51:07
Edited by Incarnadine (15186) on 2009-11-12 14:56:21
But can I just make one last point that it’s kind of funny and ironic that now you’re offended that non-offended people are making fun of offended-people for being easily offended?

Come on, you know that’s pretty damn funny. Admit it…if only to just yourself. :D

And considering the people who are “not offended” are being called racist and ignorant for their positions… I’d saying laughing at the “offended folks” for being so up-in-arms is a pretty tame reaction.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By plasticstarfish
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 03:25 PM
HighlandHottie05 wrote:

I don't see what the big deal is? She clearly isnt racist, maybe just not the brightest. If she was racist do you think she would waste a costume trying to be lil wayne? no.

On another note (i say this with no offence to black people)..but why does media make such a big deal about racism against blacks? If a black person were to dress up as a white person no one would give a da*n.. I just don't get it. You know how black people have the TV station "Black Entertainment Telivion (BET)".. well if we made a "WET" (white entertainment telivision).. media would critisize us and we would probably get sued.. I don't get why it's always a bigger deal for black people. White people get discrimanated for skin colour too. Everyone does.


Google "white privilege". Actually, a think a lot of people in this thread who excuse her behavior could stand to read up on it.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Incarnadinemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 04:22 PM
Edited by Incarnadine (15186) on 2009-11-12 16:23:54
Google "white privilege". Actually, a think a lot of people in this thread who excuse her behavior could stand to read up on it.


Obviously your comment wasn’t directed at me; but because you said “a lot of people” in your comment, allow me to retort.

First of all, do not assume people are ill educated or not well read simply because they do not share your position.

I can only speak for myself. I for one have a degree in sociology and ranked in the top of my program. My master’s degree also has a heavy multicultural component integrated into every part of the program. As to not insult your intelligence, I’m sure you know the bulk of sociology as a discipline studies social inequality, racism, culture and the rank/privilege/oppression/exploitation of individuals within a societal context. Sociology also has a very heavy historical component especially regarding the oppression and mistreatment of under-privileged populations. I’m pretty damn well versed and well read on the subjects- including “white privilege.” So-K-thanks.

I also happen to know some of the people you’re insinuating to be ignorant in this thread are also very well educated people.

That said, having knowledge of “white privilege” as a concept doesn’t change the fact that I think people overstate their offence as a form of self promotion through fake-ro-versies they can manipulate into perceived racial injustice.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By kandykanePremium member
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 04:43 PM
Edited by kandykane (157761) on 2009-11-12 16:47:14
First of all, do not assume people are ill educated or not well read simply because they do not share your position.


This goes both ways.

As I stated previously, I am not personally "offended" by this incident. I just think she made a bad choice because it was bound to stir some people up.

Edit: Reverse racism, as I call it, exists. I see it in my grand daughter often. She experiences more racism from her non-white family than her white family. (Identifying names used in a general fashion, no offense intended because of the words I chose.)

kk~
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By plasticstarfish
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 04:52 PM
Incarnadine wrote:

Google "white privilege". Actually, a think a lot of people in this thread who excuse her behavior could stand to read up on it.


Obviously your comment wasn’t directed at me; but because you said “a lot of people” in your comment, allow me to retort.

First of all, do not assume people are ill educated or not well read simply because they do not share your position.

I can only speak for myself. I for one have a degree in sociology and ranked in the top of my program. My master’s degree also has a heavy multicultural component integrated into every part of the program. As to not insult your intelligence, I’m sure you know the bulk of sociology as a discipline studies social inequality, racism, culture and the rank/privilege/oppression/exploitation of individuals within a societal context. Sociology also has a very heavy historical component especially regarding the oppression and mistreatment of under-privileged populations. I’m pretty damn well versed and well read on the subjects- including “white privilege.” So-K-thanks.

I also happen to know some of the people you’re insinuating to be ignorant in this thread are also very well educated people.

That said, having knowledge of “white privilege” as a concept doesn’t change the fact that I think people overstate their offence as a form of self promotion through fake-ro-versies they can manipulate into perceived racial injustice.


I said "a lot of people" not "everyone". I was mostly addressing statements like "but why isn't there a WHITE entertainment television?" "if a black person painted their face white no one would care" and "but I'm not racist so nothing I do could be unintentionally offensive".

I do agree with your last paragraph (to an extent). However, as someone with the credentials you so subtly mentioned, you must see how these sorts of statements can be problematic.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Incarnadinemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 04:59 PM
Edited by Incarnadine (15186) on 2009-11-12 17:06:20
kandykane wrote:

First of all, do not assume people are ill educated or not well read simply because they do not share your position.


This goes both ways.

As I stated previously, I am not personally "offended" by this incident. I just think she made a bad choice because it was bound to stir some people up.

kk~


Sure, fair enough. But where in this debate have I referred to people as ignorant for not agreeing with me?

My comments aren’t directed at people who think it was in bad taste.

But to those that imply people are ignorant, racist or ill educated because they don’t share the opinion that this warrents outrage and offence- well, that’s not going down easy with me.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By plasticstarfish
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 05:07 PM


Edit: Reverse racism, as I call it, exists. I see it in my grand daughter often. She experiences more racism from her non-white family than her white family. (Identifying names used in a general fashion, no offense intended because of the words I chose.)

kk~


How is that reverse racism?
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Incarnadinemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 05:15 PM
plasticstarfish wrote:

I said "a lot of people" not "everyone". I was mostly addressing statements like "but why isn't there a WHITE entertainment television?" "if a black person painted their face white no one would care" and "but I'm not racist so nothing I do could be unintentionally offensive".

I do agree with your last paragraph (to an extent). However, as someone with the credentials you so subtly mentioned, you must see how these sorts of statements can be problematic.


When you put it that way, I understand your point as well. Perhaps I was quick to jump because these sorts of debates always seem to regress to “Well if you don’t think ____, you’re just racist.” or “If you think _____ you’re clearly ignorant.”

It’s a pet peeve of mine; and it’s a weak way to make an argument in my opinion, frankly.

So if that’s not where you were going then I apologize. (And I actually do see your point over the white BET thing. Whenever people make that argument I cringe.)
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By plasticstarfish
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 05:27 PM

When you put it that way, I understand your point as well. Perhaps I was quick to jump because these sorts of debates always seem to regress to “Well if you don’t think ____, you’re just racist.” or “If you think _____ you’re clearly ignorant.”



Nah, that's not really what I was trying to say, it's not as cut and dry as that. I do see a lot of ignorance in this thread, but I don't think it's necessarily coming from a bad place- just perhaps being unexposed to different ideas. I think a lot of people (not just in this thread but in general) would benefit from reading about and recognizing things like white privilege. There were a few ideas here that, while i disagree, were well thought out, and I could see where the poster was coming from.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Elfiemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 05:49 PM
So now only black men can play Othello?

I don't see anything wrong with her costume. (Maybe it's because I'm not from the states...)If someone really was performing black face with a purpose to make fun of another race, I would get this, but that's not what she's doing.

I do however find something very disturbing about the idea that one shouldn't potray a person of another race realistically, if no ridicule is meant by it. It's almost like saying a colour of the skin is more than just a different skin colour, but some kind of a line that should not be crossed.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween (karma: 1)
By Munkensteinmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 06:36 PM
Edit: Reverse racism, as I call it, exists. I see it in my grand daughter often. She experiences more racism from her non-white family than her white family. (Identifying names used in a general fashion, no offense intended because of the words I chose.)

Another pet peeve...racism is racism, pure and simple. I don't like this "reverse racism" stuff...that makes it seem like regular racism is only one thing, when it isn't, and that it's worse than other racism, which it isn't. Racism can exist when nobody is black OR white.

I think that it boils down to some people being more sensitive and more easily offended than others...it takes a lot to offend me; it's due to my personal experiences growing up. That said, it would take a heck of a lot for me to get offended by somebody else's behalf, heh. My friends and I are all really laid back about race...maybe because we've got so many types represented in our core group? Who knows...I gotta say, I enjoy being chilled out about it more than being offended by everything. If it's actually racist, it'll bother me and I'll say what I think...if it's not, I don't much care. I guess what's "actually racist" can be debated. *shrug*
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By kandykanePremium member
On Thu Nov 12, 2009 06:43 PM
Edited by kandykane (157761) on 2009-11-12 18:44:47
plasticstarfish wrote:



Edit: Reverse racism, as I call it, exists. I see it in my grand daughter often. She experiences more racism from her non-white family than her white family. (Identifying names used in a general fashion, no offense intended because of the words I chose.)

kk~


How is that reverse racism?


That's just what I call it because most people I encounter only think racism goes one way. But Munk is right. Racism is racism, no matter which race is affected.

kk~
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By aerial
On Sun Nov 15, 2009 02:33 PM
A little off topic and I already know I am going to get flamed for this and I have to say it and frankly I don't care if it offends you. A lot of black people are overly sensitive. I did not enslave you relatives; I personally do not owe you a thing. I judge people on character not their race and who cares if someone wants to dress up? What about all the other costumes? People dressing as nuns or witches? Those are religions why is that not offensive? Men dressing as women, women dressing as men? People dressing in fat suits? All those things are sure to offend someone. The truth is you can't make everyone happy. I also question why we can't have white college scholarships, and white history month and W.E.T (white entertainment television) Not every black person has this attitude but why for so many the entitlest attitude? And for those who are not black but are so pushy about everyone else being racist over every little thing it kind of reminds me of those people who are tell you all about their black or gay friends because they are really racist or homophobic and want so hard to play it off that they are not.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Brittanymember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Nov 15, 2009 03:25 PM
This isn't a thread to bash on any race...let's not even go there, k?
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween (karma: 1)
By Incarnadinemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Nov 15, 2009 06:27 PM
Edited by Incarnadine (15186) on 2009-11-15 18:29:39
Edited by Incarnadine (15186) on 2009-11-15 18:32:27
aerial wrote:

I also question why we can't have white college scholarships, and white history month and W.E.T (white entertainment television) Not every black person has this attitude but why for so many the entitlest attitude?

Ok, let’s just put this to bed once and for all…and keep in mind I’m from the camp that thinks people should lighten up and not be offended over every little thing.

1. White Entertainment Television
90% of television is already “white entertainment television.” Flip your tv on and count the number of white actors to minority actors. Most people on TV ARE WHITE. Of the shows that do use minority people- the majority of these shows will have a “token minority” actor and that person will generally be a stereotype of their race to some degree. The majority of sitcoms depict “all American white folks” (think: Everybody loves Raymond, Friends, Full house, How I Met Your Mother, etc.). Even mainstream “black” sitcoms are heavy on the stereotypes. Thus- most television is aimed at a white audience or portrays minority groups as some form of charactature.

Hell, even BET depicts African Americans as stereotypes in most cases.

How many tv shows can you name that have an African American as the leading character- without the show being a “black orientated” show. As a white person, you don’t likely notice this because you’re white. If you were a member of a minority group you’d notice that virtually everything on television about your racial group is a stereotype- and very few people on TV look like you or are relatable to your experience.

2. Black History Month
The vast majority of history taught in schools IS “white history.” Hello? Pick up any history book and tell me virtually every page is not about white people.

Let me give a non-racial example. In college I took “women’s history.” I couldn’t believe how many significant contributions women made for our country- how could I not have known this?! Well, for starters, the only “women’s history” that’s taught in public schools is the Liberation movement- and even then it’s a watered down version and it’s taught in a week, tops. The rest of public school history is taught with a focus on white men and their accomplishments.

There are a lot of bad-ass women in American history that we never hear about. The same is also true about African American figures in history.

3. "White" Scholarships.
Regarding scholarships. There are “white scholarships”- they just aren’t called that.

But more importantly- the simplest answer is that white people in general are more privileged. Go to an upper class neighborhood, private schools, high performing (and well funded) public schools- the majority of people will be white.

It’s a cycle. If you have privilege and opportunity, your children will have privilege and opportunity and the cycle repeats generation after generation. The reverse is also true. If you have been discriminated against and aren’t given privilege and opportunity due to your race- these inequalities will be passed along to your children and down the generations.

Minority groups disproportionately make up those living in poverty.

If you were born and raised in poverty- every facet of your life is affected by that poverty. You will live in an unsafe neighborhood. You will go to poor quality schools. Your family will live in places where there is limited opportunity to get good paying jobs (Fortune 500 companies don’t’ exactly post up in the ghetto). As a result, EVERY FACTOR THAT CREATES SUCCESS IS OUT OF YOUR REACH.

Imagine how hard it would be to do well in school when you’re worried about gangs and you’re worried about eating that day. And even if you COULD focus on school- the school you go to is crowded and doesn’t have the materials they need to teach (i.e. books). Now, let’s say you overcome THAT and do well and want to go to college. How the hell are your parents going to help you pay for college when your parents are working two minimum wage jobs that barely pay the rent? You think a kid in the ghetto has thousands of dollars to pay for tuition and books? Come on.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Nov 15, 2009 08:58 PM
So it's about poverty, not race.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Incarnadinemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Nov 15, 2009 09:26 PM
What is- the scholarships?

In a lot of ways, yeah. A white person raised in poverty would certainly face the same issues a minority person would. For sure. However, minority groups as populations are disproportionately more likely to live in poverty than white people. They’re also more likely to live in high crime areas, have low quality schools in their neighborhoods, etc.

It’s really a cycle. Minority groups, due to racism and discrimination, were (historically) confined to slums and given no opportunity to better their lives (via education, jobs, etc). This facilitates poverty, which facilitates more slums, more ignorance (due to poor education) and again less opportunity to succeed. And there it goes down through the generations.

Poverty, however, is not the cause- racism is. Or maybe a better way to put it is that racism is the catalyst for the cycle of poverty and inequality.

But going back to white people living in poverty- the thing is, our society sees poor white people as an exception. But with minority groups, the “bottom feeders” are often seen as reinforcement for prejudicial beliefs against a whole group. A (stereotypical) “ghetto” African American is much more likely to be seen as an example of the entire ethnicity; where as “white trash” is excused as the embarrassing exception to the rule.

But even poor ol’ white trash have the benefit of being white- socially speaking, anyway.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween (karma: 1)
By balletbree
On Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:37 PM
Edited by balletbree (66334) on 2009-11-16 23:45:04
HighlandHottie05 wrote:

I don't see what the big deal is? She clearly isnt racist, maybe just not the brightest. If she was racist do you think she would waste a costume trying to be lil wayne? no.

On another note (i say this with no offence to black people)..but why does media make such a big deal about racism against blacks? If a black person were to dress up as a white person no one would give a da*n.. I just don't get it. You know how black people have the TV station "Black Entertainment Television (BET)".. well if we made a "WET" (white entertainment television).. media would criticize us and we would probably get sued.. I don't get why it's always a bigger deal for black people. White people get discriminated for skin colour too. Everyone does.


BET isn't owned by black people if that makes any difference to you. Also much of the programing has been criticized for it's negative portrayal of blacks. It's owned by Viacom.
However, on the topic at hand, the costume was in poor taste and it shouldn't be that big of a deal but we're in a "sensitive" time period. Some people just don't want to dredge up the past or acknowledge that racism still exists.
re: This made national headlines: a girl dressed up in "blackface" for Halloween
By Incarnadinemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Nov 17, 2009 09:42 AM
Edited by Incarnadine (15186) on 2009-11-17 09:44:18
Some people just don't want to dredge up the past or acknowledge that racism still exists.


Yes, absolutely. This is very true. We (as a society) certainly need to be aware of our history and be informed about current racial issues still plaguing our society. However, for what it’s worth, it’s also true that a lot of people want to live only through the lenses of the past and they are constantly looking for racism and overstate its existence in situations where it may not be the case.

I think the bottom line is that people need to fight racism and promote an appreciation and acceptance of diversity…but save their outrage for real racism, discrimination and prejudice. Which- absolutely still exists!

These sort of controversies distract people from the real issues we need to be aware of and stand up against.

I think a big part of why people feel numb to racial issues is, in fact, due to people causing a ruckus over racism when it’s not warranted. When this happens enough people are going to go “Oh God- one of these controversies again?! *rolls eyes*” Case in point: It’s gotten to the where I just can’t take Jessie Jackson seriously. No matter what he says.

People like this cause social apathy, not social empathy.
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