Ugh, how many times do you get this call? I seem to get it more and more! So very frustrating! Then they always say they are going to call around to try to find a place that offers it.

So how do you educate someone over the phone, without seeming pompous when what you really want to say is, "If you find a place that does, run far far away!" ??

hehe!

I explain that 4 year olds do not have enough body awareness yet to do hip hop. I tell them that my 4 year olds are all still in combo classes learning the "essence" of tap/ballet/jazz.

I start them in hip hop at 6.

A lot of 4 year-olds can't hop on one foot or skip across a room. Hip hop? Yeah, right.

dont you love it!

I had a sample class for ages 3 & 4 year olds, come in and take one class of ballet and one class of tumble before our year started to see if your kid will enjoy dance, about 10 min into the ballet class, the mom sticks her head in and says are they going to do hip hop because if not, we are leaving. I was like....um no, this is a ballet class, just like it was advertised. She said, oh, ok, well we want hip hop, thanks, and out they walked.

We started offering it for 5 & 6 year olds this year for the first time. Guess what? The class is full and we have to open another. I finally resigned myself to the fact that I have to listen to my customers and give them what they want. Is it "real" hip hop? Of course not. Its a combination of kids fitness, jazz, music and rhythm and its set to songs they love like the Jonas Brothers.

I look at it this way- better we, the experienced teachers who at least know what it safe and what isn't- offer it than some clueless high school kid who only sees an opportunity to either make a quick buck- or worse....ENTER THEM IN A DANCE COMPETITION.

At the end of the day, I have bills to pay. I am pretty sure of a few things- A) If I don't offer it someone else will B) People will go to that someone else and C) I have lost a student, probably forever. So we offer that hip hop and when they see the recital and see the other dance forms they will register for more classes the following year.

Ditto everything Bisou said. My Intro to Hip Hop for 5-6 year olds is Packed! In addition - I feel like this class may be the only exposure to dance these kids will get and like Bisou - once they see the recital the majority of my hip hop only kids sign up for ballet/tap/jazz combo classes the next year.

I bit the bullet a few years ago and started Irish Dance clases for 3 & 4 year olds. Most schools won't take them until age 5, but I got so many phone calls and kept telling parents the same thing "They aren"t coordinated enough until age 5".

Well, I thought about and made a pre Irish dance class for pre schoolers, and its really just creative movement to Irish music with some very basic fundamentals thrown in. No, it is not really all Irish Dand in the purest form. We had a waiting list within a few weeks. And you know what?? It got them enrolled in our studio before they went somewhere else. And, now 5 years later, those dancers that took the pre Irish dance class are way ahead of those who started at the traditional age of 5. I think they learned a sense of rhythym at a young age that is invaluable.

Anyway, it is a business, and if you are getting that many phone calls, you may be able to form a pre hip hop class, with appropriate music and very basic fundamentals, and quite honestly moslty a creative movement class. Its all in the packaging. The parents will probably be thrilled and you will gain more customers. If its not dangerous or detrimental to their dance eduation, I would say go for it if you have time and resources.

bisousbisou wrote:

We started offering it for 5 & 6 year olds this year for the first time. Guess what? The class is full and we have to open another. I finally resigned myself to the fact that I have to listen to my customers and give them what they want. Is it "real" hip hop? Of course not.

Yes, but 5 & 6 are radically different from 4. I offer Hip-Hop to 6's, but allowed some of my students with previous training to begin at 5 and they DANCE.

It is quite possible to do more than step touch with that age.

I'll let 5 & 6's do it...but I won't open it to 4's/

MammyID wrote:

Well, I thought about and made a pre Irish dance class for pre schoolers, and its really just creative movement to Irish music with some very basic fundamentals thrown in.

And that's exactly what it should be at that age. I wish ID schools in my area would provide something age-appropriate for the younger students. Schools here who take students at 4 expect them to learn and dance like they were 7 or 8.

I don't offer hip hop to 4 year olds. We only have one option - PreDance Combo classes (ballet/tap/creative movement until they are 5 or in Kindergarten. Then they must take a ballet/tap combo to take hip hop. Combo is 1 hour and hip hop is 30 minutes. After 3rd grade, they can take just hip hop and it is an hour.

Most 4 year olds are not coordinated enough to do hip hop.

I haven't started with 4 year olds, but if I get calls for it I may look into developing a class plan for it.
I don't think it takes any more coordination that a pre ballet/tap, as a matter of fact- a BIG hurdle in the gross motor skill set, skipping, should happen while they are 4 years old. Skipping opens the door for many more different skills and those skills can be incorporated into the "hip hop" (very loose quotation marks there, LOL) curriculum for 4 year olds.
Listen, its not for everyone. You may not have the time in the schedule or the teacher to teach it, but I'd like to know if there is anyone out there who wouldn't like the extra revenue!! I think our generation has just had the "ballet, first and foremost" drummed into our heads for so long that its going to take a while to get used to the fact that hip hop is here, its not going away, and the earth will continue to rotate on its axis if we have dancers in our studios who choose to only study hip hop for their entire dance career. Taught properly- they can learn how to warm up correctly, how to adhere to the usual dance class structure, how to pick up choreography and how the whole dance class scenario is - be on time, dressed properly, be respectful and all that jazz- without ever having a ballet class.

Tough to wrap our minds around- but if an old bag like me can do it- you can too!!

We begin it at 6 - which is down from 8 a few years ago. I wont offer it to preschoolers though.

We offer "Hippity Hop," starting at age 4. This is the second year and both years they have been full and it is also how we get a lot of boys. I don't feel comfortable calling it straight Hip Hop since they are 4 and I got the phrase "Hippity Hop" from DanceLife. I totally agree with Bisou, if I don't do it someone else will. I am a business owner that needs to listen to people's wants and needs in order to make money to run my business.

HIppety HOp. That's really cute. I usually don't go for 'cutsey' names, but I like that a lot!

For me 'this is what customers want' is not enough reason to offer hiphop for 4 year olds. Customers also ask for pointes for 4 years old; I don't need more proof that parents have no idea about what is the best for their children.
I am not only a SO, I'm also a teacher and the responsibility that goes with that, is more important to me than making money.

My minimum age for hiphop is 12. My main reason: I want them to get some technique first. I get new kids at the age of 12, having done hiphop at other studios for years. They look around to my students, having done ballet/jazz for years, now doing hiphop for the first year. The new kids see the difference and come to me: "Do you have a ballet class for me too?"
Another reason not to offer it, is that it is not possible to teach proper hiphop at the age of 4. Calling it hiphop would be misleading customers.

Some parents asking for hiphop for their 4 year old, have never heard of creative movement. When I explain what that is, they often get excited about it. Some don't. Some really want hiphop, those are not 'my kind of people'. They better go elsewhere.



I don't blame anyone for trying to make money. And I understand some have to offer this to pay all the bills. I respect that.
But please, let's never think this is age appropriate.

so I love this thread - truly - I think this is a fascinating look at what is happening in the dance world. The fact that we are even discussing this is case and point that hip hop is becoming more and more of a factor... and there is no going back to pre-hip-hop dance.

Here is my thought - I know some are saying that 4 year olds can't do hip hop but let's be honest - they're 4! can they really do ballet either??? If they are learning the essence of dance why not let them learn that to hip-hop(ish) music? Where does it say they can only learn to start dance if they start with simplified ballet/tap/jazz - why not simplified hip hop? or international dance? or any other form? Just look at that clip of the baby dancing to beyonce - not even 2 yet but learning to move to music, and to a hip hop song.

We have several 'creative movement' classes - none of which we call by that name. They are themed by dance and music style with cute names to match. Some are more traditional ballet based and some are not. Just like the ballet based classes learn plie and tendu but simplified, the 'hip-hop' classes learn simplified steps as well but they have kid versions of hip hop songs to learn to. Our hip hop creative movement classes were so popular we had to add 2 extra classes and honestly we would have more if we had the space for them. And here's the thing, they are learning to move to music which is all you can really expect from pre-k kids anyway. They don't do a recital and so far the ratio of those moving to beginning ballet next year is the same as from the ballet based CM classes. Not calling the classes 'hip hop' or 'pre ballet' or even 'creative movement' - that gives us a lot of flexibility when parents ask which class their child should take next.

And if a parent asks for 4 year old hip hop we say 'well our hip hop based class for that age is xxx' and they're happy. I totally agree with bisousbisou - better they take with us so that when they get to 'real' steps they are with good solid teachers.

Seriously, I think most studios should ponder this, these classes have been great for us and our students.

lidwina wrote:

y. And I understand some have to offer this to pay all the bills. I respect that
But please, let's never think this is age appropriate.

But it absolutely is!
Hip hop IS a technique. Its a legitimate dance form that one can study without ever having taken a ballet class.
I used to feel the same way until I broadened my horizons a bit and helped devise a program that is absolutely age appropriate and they are really accomplishing something.
If you are not comfortable offering it, thats fine, but please don't speak of it as if its some sort of scheme to make money. Its a class like any other ....pre dance- creative movement, pre ballet, tumbling for tots.....
Offering pointe for 4 year olds is dangerous to their well being. After 25 + years of teaching I think I have a pretty firm grasp on when its time to listen to my customers and when I have to dismiss a suggestion.
I find your reply extremely condescending.

Its a business at the end of the day. If there is a market and a demand for dance class for 3 & 4 year olds (Irish Dance in my case), then I have no problem getting my piece of the pie. The parents will seek out another dance activity elsewhere if I don't offer it. I am not about to let that happen.

Everything I do is developmentally appropriate. Having fun with music, clapping, following directions, some partner work...its all good, and the parents are happy. I still don't see the problem with it. If you are teaching technique that is physically dangerous or too emotionally and psychologically demanding, then that's a problem. But almost every form of dance can be developmentally scaled down, to give the kids a great experience.

My 5 and 7 year old dd are in hip hop classes now at a local studio. The 3 & 4 year old Pre Hip Hop class is right before theirs. It is packed....and it looks like they are just having fun with creative movement and very ,very basic hip hop moves. No harm done, and lots more kids signed up at her studio. Smart woman!

I have a combo class for the 4yr olds. Its an hour class, half hour ballet half hour hip hop. Just as most of you have already said, my class is full and the kids LOVE it!

Gotta do what people want, and they want Hip Hop for 4yr olds!

MammyID wrote:

The 3 & 4 year old Pre Hip Hop class is right before theirs. It is packed....and it looks like they are just having fun with creative movement and very ,very basic hip hop moves. No harm done, and lots more kids signed up at her studio. Smart woman!

While I agree with the above, (and I too have added classes for the youngest, due to demand), I worry about this trend for several reasons:

Will dance be "dumbed down" (and I mean this word not in a negative sense) to the 3-4 year old's domain, so that parents perceive it as something that children outgrow when they're five - and can move on to "more demanding" and all-consuming sports, etc.

Longer term, will older children ridicule their preteen peers who dance, saying that it's something only babies do.

I say the above because it has happened to me in my anti-dance township. In addition, sports coaches here badmouth dance and have told my few preteen dancers that ballet is bad for those who want to take track, etc.

It seems to me that there's such an explosive interest in dance for three year olds (and that's 90% of all my inquiries) because that's the age children are exhibiting dance behaviors at home, perhaps in front of the TV while watching the Wiggles. So moms are thinking, let's do dance NOW, and when they're older, they can move on to gymnastics, cheer, baton, karate, sports - most of which have since geared up to allow NO TIME for dance classes. (Do you think this is a coincidence?)

But are 3-4 year olds really looking to learn dance in a structured setting? Of course not, so we end up conducting a play group that incorporates some dance. No harm done, unless the child refuses to attend every week, cries/becomes disruptive in class, and mom drops dance PERMANENTLY. Then, can this be fueling the lack of students ages 7 and up?

Are we winning the battle, but losing the war? I'd be interested in how many of these children REMAIN taking dance as they get older. I'm sure it's not a problem in those benign locales that don't have an over-abundance of low cost child activities, or a newer suburb with a bonanza of babies. But what's to stop the "Little Gyms" (who already offer dance and karate classes) from opening more locations.

lidwina wrote:

For me 'this is what customers want' is not enough reason to offer hiphop for 4 year olds. Customers also ask for pointes for 4 years old; I don't need more proof that parents have no idea about what is the best for their children.
I am not only a SO, I'm also a teacher and the responsibility that goes with that, is more important to me than making money.

My minimum age for hiphop is 12. My main reason: I want them to get some technique first. I get new kids at the age of 12, having done hiphop at other studios for years. They look around to my students, having done ballet/jazz for years, now doing hiphop for the first year. The new kids see the difference and come to me: "Do you have a ballet class for me too?"
Another reason not to offer it, is that it is not possible to teach proper hiphop at the age of 4. Calling it hiphop would be misleading customers.

Some parents asking for hiphop for their 4 year old, have never heard of creative movement. When I explain what that is, they often get excited about it. Some don't. Some really want hiphop, those are not 'my kind of people'. They better go elsewhere.



I don't blame anyone for trying to make money. And I understand some have to offer this to pay all the bills. I respect that.
But please, let's never think this is age appropriate.

It sounds like you teaching funky/street jazz not hip hop.

Wow! Bisou and vfdt both have such good arguments and give so much to think about!! While I have agreed with Bisou and have followed pretty much the same line of thinking when creating classes at my own studio, I also very much see the concerns that vfdt describes! I have had trouble for many years at keeping my older dancers. It does seem that as they grow, they decide to pursue other interests and abandon dance (OR they make the cheerleading squad or dance team at school and don't need the studio anymore.) And the younger they start, the earlier they quit. Can this necessarily be blamed on offering more classes in all genres to preschoolers to get them in the door? I don't know. But I'd hate to think that in time many schools will be primarily a preschool-5th grade dance school with only a handful over age 12!

VFDT you should post your reply in a new thread and see what other SOs think. I'm curious.