Forum: Arts / Religion

Page:
Page 1 of 7: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By PlumeriaPremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 08:57 AM
Edited by Plumeria (123524) on 2010-03-14 09:13:36
Locked by Plumeria (123524) on 2010-03-14 18:06:59 I am repeating the same thing over again. We will never know what happened. So don't prove me wrong, because you CANNOT. I accept other beliefs, but I will not accept other people trying to change my mind because they think somethign different is crazy.
Frozen by Theresa (28613) on 2010-03-14 18:12:04 People weren't done discussing this. If you don't want any more opinions, don't read it. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them rude.
Thawed by Theresa (28613) on 2010-03-17 09:19:47 wanting to lock it
Locked by Theresa (28613) on 2010-03-17 09:20:02 locking. thanks everybody!

Now before you read this, breathe and keep an open mind. I don't want to attract angry people.

I don't believe in dinosaurs and I was wondering if there were others on here that are the same. And since I don't believe in dinosaurs, I'm not sure what to think of the Ice Age.

My reasoning:

"Dinosaurs" mentioned in Bible
Behemoth has the following attributes according to Job 40:15-24

It “eats grass like an ox.”
It “moves his tail like a cedar.” (In Hebrew, this literally reads, “he lets hang his tail like a cedar.”)
Its “bones are like beams of bronze,
His ribs like bars of iron.”
“He is the first of the ways of God.”
“He lies under the lotus trees,
In a covert of reeds and marsh.”

Taken from www.clarifyingchristianity.com . . .

I am aware of the fact that the word "dinosaurs" did not exist back then and some people think that that animal was a behemoth. But I personally think it was a form of Satan. I mean, if dinosaurs did exist, you would think that they would make such an impact on life that they would be mentioned more than twice in the Bible. So why would they only be in there twice? That would lead to the fact that some people think dinosaurs came before humans in the evolution process. And I don't believe in evolution. I believe in the whole God created the world in 6 days and he put all living creatures on Earth at the same time. And if he did include dinosaurs, why would they die out while humans and the other animals didn't? So now I'm not even sure I believe in the ice age because I don't think there was the whole process of evolution.

I really just think everything was put on Earth at once. Some people would question God's defintion of "day", but wouldn't he mention something about a huge sheet of ice in the Bible?

Oh, and before you argue about the fossils and bones, do we really know who put them on Earth? Do we really KNOW how the fossils were created? Yes, they contain evidence of the past animal and the print and all. But how do we know that it wasn't a person or a God who put them on Earth to encourage us to learn more about our environment and how to help it?

EDIT: If you are curious, I am Lutheran.

174 Replies to Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?

re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By kandykanePremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 09:44 AM
I'm not attacking you at all, ok?

I live in an area known as Dinosaur Valley. I have seen dinosaur footprints in the riverbed, their bones that were found during construction of a large power plant, the local museums are full of stories and FACTS of the discovery of their existence in our area.

I just can't wrap my mind around you saying you "don't believe" in dinosaurs. Facts are facts. It has nothing to do with faith or satan or any of that. It's the same as learning how the sky is blue in color to our eyes. Wouls you say that satan or God made the sky blue?

kk~
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By balletgirl125member has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 09:47 AM
While I respect your views completely, I have to disagree with you. I put my faith in science, and I believe that dinosaurs did exist because of all the scientific data there is behind it. Same with the theory of evolution. Some people argue that it is a theory, but it has been proven correct time and time again. Plus, gravity is only a theory, and yet you can't argue that it isn't there.
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution? (karma: 10)
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 09:56 AM
So God created all those fake dinosaur bones just to fool us? What a douche!
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By Arakmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:12 AM
Some people would question God's defintion of "day"

I'd be one of them, but I wouldn't quite put it that way. I'd actually question the early Hebrews' use of the word, not God's. It seems apparent to me that what they're calling a "day" was actually something more like an era, probably called so for lack of a better term. From the Biblical account (and also from the known history of the world), we know that animals have been in existence since before humans appeared on the Earth. So who's to say that some species didn't die out before the "day" when man was created?

Oh, and before you argue about the fossils and bones, do we really know who put them on Earth? Do we really KNOW how the fossils were created?

If God, Satan, or whoever else you think put fossils in the ground to screw with us over the origins of creation, why not do the same on other controversies? Why not plant "evidence" that Jesus really was just some regular guy who happened to be an eloquent speaker and a radical thinker? And following your logic about unknown origins of things found in the ground, maybe Satan planted the ruins of ancient, extinct civilizations in the Americas, too. I mean, they were halfway around the world from Mesopotamia and obviously were not God's chosen people, and did not interact with God's chosen people, and they're no longer in existence. So I guess they were planted to test our faith, too, since acknowledging them brings up some uncomfortable questions about how the people got there and all.

By the way, are you one of those who thinks the world is only 6,000 or so years old, too?
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By PlumeriaPremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:13 AM
Edited by Plumeria (123524) on 2010-03-14 10:30:22
Edited by Plumeria (123524) on 2010-03-14 10:34:10
Kandykane, I understand your point because of your location. It's around you all the time so it's just natural for you. But part of my belief is that they got the facts from the fossils that were put here so we could become more scientific. I believe that the fossils and bones do contain scientific evidence and facts, but those facts were put on here to encourage us to learn about our world and the life around us.

And umm, I believe that God did make the sky blue...I mean, I know the light scatters from the sun but that's how he created the Earth and its properties. But that's different.

EDIT:
And following your logic about unknown origins of things found in the ground, maybe Satan planted the ruins of ancient, extinct civilizations in the Americas, too.

No, I don't believe that because I believe that God put living creatures all over Earth and they differed in culture. I mean, you can't just have one same civlization all throughout the world. But the time that it happened...... maybe I would have to differ with it a little.

By the way, are you one of those who thinks the world is only 6,000 or so years old, too?

Uhh, I could never be able to tell the age of the Earth just because I don't know the exact definition of "day". I mean, there are some things that we will never know and all we can do is have faith and believe in whatever we believe.

By the way, are you one of those who thinks......

Also, what do you mean by "one of those"..... I'm sorry but it just stands out in my head.
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By kandykanePremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:35 AM
Edited by kandykane (157761) on 2010-03-14 10:44:52
I believe that God did make the sky blue...I mean, I know the light scatters from the sun but that's how he created the Earth and its properties. But that's different.


No, it isn't different. It's science. It's fact.

EDIT: And that right there is a contradiction. You accept the scientific reason for the color of the sky, while saying that God created it, but not that he did the same with the existence of dinosaurs.

kk~
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By AlwaysOnStagePremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:36 AM
Because man didn't have enough scientific discovery going on? If there were no dinosaurs, and we never had the bones to be all scientific with...we'd still be scientific. We'd have bones of animals who DID survive, the natural laws of the Earth, and then chemistry, biology, astronomy. Humans were well on the scientific trail before dino bones got pulled into it. Not sure where that logic leads.

And I've never heard someone who believes in God say so calmly that they think God has 'lied' and put fallacies in the world for us to find. It does confuse me a little bit, but I am very interested to watch how this thread expands.
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By PlumeriaPremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:42 AM
And I've never heard someone who believes in God say so calmly that they think God has 'lied' and put fallacies in the world for us to find.

Oh no hun, God never "lied". I mean, he never told us that dinosaurs existed. Humans discovered "dinosaur" remains and learned that "dinosaurs" existed. But God or Jesus never came out and announced or said anything about there being dinosaurs.

I mean, I can understand why you guys think I'm a crazy unitelligent creature who should be taken out of the Darwin gene pool. This is something that a lot of people have not thought about questioning. But really, differences in beliefs make this world fascinating. We can't believe in the same thing. I mean, there's a few beliefs that I 100% disagree with, but we have to be thankful that they are here.
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By SammyAnnmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:45 AM
Edited by SammyAnn (102502) on 2010-03-14 10:53:58
I think that it is entirely possible to believe that dinosaurs existed and the theory of evolution and still believe in God. However, I find it very interesting that you would use the bible as a more reliable factual source than actual scientific evidence. I think when considering the bible, you must realize that there are a million different ways to interpret it and it is basically a collection of stories, legends, and personal accounts. God didn't write the bible and just drop it onto somebody's head!
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By kandykanePremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:47 AM
^ Actually, this subject has been questioned before in the same manner. I guess you just haven't come across those discussions, not necessarily on DDN but I have heard/read these arguments before.

kk~
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By AlwaysOnStagePremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:49 AM
I kinda do see it as lying...creating false surroundings. Kinda like when some students do their homework, they put an earlier 'date' on their homework to make it look like it happened earlier when it didn't. It's not cheating, for the majority of cases, but it is lying.

And you have to take my input from my side: I believe that the bible is a glorified textbook created and written by man--not God. So using the bible as a reference only means that a few thousand years ago, some dude wrote this down. That's what it means to ME anyway. (Also, I don't believe in God so I don't believe that any one just put the bones in the ground. However, I'm trying to remove that part of my beliefs to try and make it so I'm on the same philosophical page as this thread is.)
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By PlumeriaPremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:14 AM
I think when considering the bible, you must realize that there are a million different ways to interpret it and it is basically a collection of stories, legends, and personal accounts.

Yes, I agree. It is really hard to know exactly what happened for anyone because there's so many different meanings that you could get from it. Plus, you'll never know the truth.

I mean, I agree. I don't think God wrote the Bible, it could have been bishops (sp?) or disciples. But I still do believe in the stories and lessons that the Bible presents. Everyone just gets something different from it.
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By MuffinHeadmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:47 AM
There is FACTUAL EVIDENCE that dinosaurs roamed this earth. There is *no* factual evidence that a god or gods created dinosaurs, the world, or anything for that matter.

I'm not trying to attack you or be rude. But I'm concerned that you believe something with no facts attatched to it, as opposed to something that has mounds of facts attatched to it.

Go to a museum and take a look at some fossils. If you don't believe after seeing those, I'd be amazed.

God did not write the bible. I have to say, I *love* the bible. It is an amazing story. But that's all it seems to be, a story. No one has been able to prove it to be otherwise. Where is the Ark of the Covenant? Where is the Shroud of Turin? Where is Noah's Ark? Find me one or more of these things and perhaps I'll start believing the stories written in the bible.
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution? (karma: 5)
By moara
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:05 PM
I'll just share a bit of my story, because I think it may be helpful.

I'm a devoted christian, and have been my whole life.
When I was a child, I was taught to be extremely skeptical of evolution. My parent's never taught us that dinosaurs didn't exist, or that the lived with humans, like some Young Earth Creationists (people who believe that creation to 6 -24 hour days, and that it was 6000 years ago, based on the geneologies in the bible). But, any mention of, for example, birds evoloving from those dinosaurs was dismissed. I did have friends though who believed that dinosaur bones were placed in the ground by people as a hoax. Even at 8 years old, I knew this was a little far fetched.
When I got to high school, and started learning about the tree of life (even before we got to the theory of evolution itself) I started to see that there was something to the ordering of all the species from simplest to most complex. I started to look into the various schools of thought, expecially those looking at how to reconcile the facts, as laid out by science, and the wording of Genesis.
I discovered Intelligent Design which is a theory put forth by a christian cell biologist, that says that God used evolution to bring life into the world, but that there were some steps that were completely impossible for natural selection to come up with, and therefore, God must have "helicoptered them in" to the creation process. I eventually gave up on this theory, both because I found it inconsistent that God would be actively creating at some points, and passively letting things take their course at other points. And also because it's not good science. Something could be said to be "intelligently designed" only as long as someone couldn't come up with a series of steps foot it to evolve through. As you can come up with this for anything, if you just think long enough, nothing can be definitively said to be intelligently designed. Logically, you can't prove a negative.

After that, I moved on to theistic evolution. That is, I beleive that God created the world, and evolution was his method. I don't beleive that for God to be actively working in the world, that the natural laws have to be broken. God created those laws, and he can work within them if he so chooses. I think that if there was such a thing as "historical meteorology" that showed that there was in incoming high pressure front that ended the storm in Galilee when Jesus calmed the sea in Mark 4:35-41, it wouldn't make me question the miracle. The miracle is in Jesus being able to say whenever he wants "waves be still" and they will.
In the same way, it doesn't make me question my faith to know that there is a pathway for creation. I still beleive in Genesis.
I don't beleive it's literal (6 days) or allegorical (a nice story). I beleive it's metaphorical (that each word in Genesis has a direct parallel in history, even if we don't understand what it is yet).


Sorry that's a bit long. I realized that I hadn't written all that down in one place before, and it was about time that I did. This topic is near and dear to me, because I'm a marine biologist. I use evolution in my work all the time. I really felt like conservation of creation is my calling in life, and evolutionary science is my best tool to do that. My prof from a physical geography class once said in a lecture that the basis of explaining the history of the world with science is to start with the assumption that the way things happen now is the way things have always happened. Afterall, we can only understand the way the world works now, so that's the tools we use when trying to explain the geological and fossil record. What else can we do, and still remain objective? That helped me a lot in terms of really being able to say "I love God's creation, and I want to keep it in good condition, and evolution is our best understanding of how things work, so I'm going to go with that."

Anyway, I've got lots more to say on the topic, but I'm gonna call it quits there.

This blog www.reclaimingthemind.org . . . has an exellent summary of the different positions that christians take on the topic. (I'm either a 3 or a 5). When I started reading up on this debate, I found it very overwhelming, because there's such a diversity of beleifs on the topic.


Just one more thing, specific to what you posted. I don't accept that God planted fossils to look like they were alive and died naturally, even though they never actually lived on this earth, because it doesn't fit with the character of the God I know, and God as he's described in the bible. I think it'd be contradictory of Him, who doesn't test us without reason.

I think you're right to reject the ideas of dinosaurs living at the same time as people, and you're on the right track for then questioning how an ice age (or the several ice ages that we have evidence for in the natural history record) could exist. I think you're on a bit of a dead end with your thinking that God put them there to teach us about science. If you don't mind me adding my thoughts, I think that there's not much science to learn from dinosaur fossils that's not directly related to evolution. Also, I think that if you keep going down that theoretical path, if God created the world to have the appearance of dinosaurs, and ice ages, and successively more complex life, and a long age of the earth, in order that we could understand the way the world works; if he created a preformed world with all the evidence of a long history, before introducing people to it, how is that different than the earth actually having that long history? It gets a bit philosophical, "I think therefore I am", "if a tree falls in the woods and there's noone there to hear it, did it really fall" and all that.

But, I just want to say I applaud your efforts in examining what you beleive. It's an essential part of Christian life: questioning what you're taught, and comparing it to the bible, and to your own experiences. My advice would be to keep seeking, keep reading. The only thing I would warn of would be not to try to use Creationism as an evangelism or outreach tool. I've only seen it lead to conflict and heartache, and turning scientists even farther away from God.
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution? (karma: 1)
By FeisDadAndre
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:09 PM
Oh wow, where to start??? I'm in the middle of packing so I don't have time to prepare a proper response but let me weigh in with a few tidbits:
- My childhood was rooted in conservative Catholic teachings. I was even an altar-boy for 11 years.
- I've spent my adult career in evironmental science, and even taught in the Faculty of Science at a university for several years.

So' I've seen both sides of the creation-evolution debate so here's my (very quick) response to your post:
- the Bible was written at a time long before anyone understood that the earth was round, let along everything else we have come to know about our world.
- the scientific literature has hundreds of studies which clearly illustrate that evolution has occurred in the past and is still occurring today. And it's all there, for anyone to read and verify for themselves.
- the "Earth is only 6000 years old" myth is just that, a myth. Dreamed up by a Catholic Irish Bishop who was wanting to make a name for himself in the church. This is not unlike a kid nowadays trying to perfect his 3-point throw so that he can make his mark in the NBA. Both of them want to be famous and respected.
- The Irish Bishop, bless his heart, had good intentions but he was working with very little real information and a lot of fanciful assumptions.
- every day, science makes new discoveries that prove not only the true age of the earth, that the ice ages did in fact occur, that we are not the centre of the universe and that we should not be afraid of things like dinosaurs and evolution simply because someone interpreted the bible in a certain way several hundred years ago.
- the Bible is a great book and we should all strive to live up to its prnciples. But to use it to demean ourselves as rational, intelligent beings is just plain "ludicrous crazy-talk". We're better than that.

And as a last note: you can still have a deep and abiding faith throughout your life while still being fascinated by the types of life which used to exist on Earth. Like the dinosaurs.

Actually, here's my last note for now:

So God created all those fake dinosaur bones just to fool us? What a douche!


Panic, a person who strives for greater understanding about the world around them is not a douche but an inspiration to everyone who was afraid to ask the same question. People who demean them through childish name calling, well, they are the douche.
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution? (karma: 1)
By DefyingGravityPremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:16 PM
FeisDadAndre wrote:

Panic, a person who strives for greater understanding about the world around them is not a douche but an inspiration to everyone who was afraid to ask the same question. People who demean them through childish name calling, well, they are the douche.
Andre, Panic was calling GOD a douche for trying to trick the silly human beings with those big, bad, fake fossils. He was not calling the OP a douche. I have to agree that a God who makes fake stuff would be a HUGE douche.
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:28 PM
Maybe God decided that he didn't need to put EVERYTHING in the Bible. Maybe there's some stuff we could learn on our own. After all, there's a lot of places, plants, animals, and facts of life that just aren't mentioned in the Bible. It's a pretty short series of books with a pretty limited scope. Maybe God created dinosaurs, but figured it wasn't really worth mentioning.
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:40 PM
Panic, a person who strives for greater understanding about the world around them is not a douche but an inspiration to everyone who was afraid to ask the same question. People who demean them through childish name calling, well, they are the douche.
Dude, did you just call me a douche?
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution? (karma: 2)
By d4jmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 01:32 PM
OP, I know for a fact how difficult it is to be in some Christian circles because they will have you convinced that in order to be a Christian you MUST believe in certain things, such as the literal Creation Story of the world in a week, and that you MUST dismiss evolution and that the Earth HAS to be only 6,000 years old. It has been told to me more times than I can count that unless you trust in the literal interpretation of ALL God's Word then how can you trust ANY of it?

But I stand on this: Romans 10:9: If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (NLT)

That's ALL it is, Christianity in a nutshell.

So, when I homeschooled my son in Christian groups and was under immense pressure to use only creation-based science texts, I held fast to Romans 10:9. When my son came to me and said that we had to believe in Creation I reminded him of the verse. I told him that in our home he was going to get both sides and that God gave him a good mind to use and that he needed to think for himself on the matter.

I see God working through science. I don't see a great divide. I encourage you to look for evidence of God throughout the created world. Romans 1:20 says: For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. (NLT) And that includes fossils. I don't believe that Satan created those. He is in the business of lying to you personally, not in a grand conspiracy.
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By Odessamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 02:10 PM
d4j wrote:


I see God working through science. I don't see a great divide.


This. Who's to say that God didn't engineer evolution? I mean - evolution is an extraordinary biological process, and God is a pretty smart dude, right? Why does it have to be Creation vs. Evolution? Why can't God have created evolution?

I can't work out why some theists reject science so unequivocally. If you believe that God made the earth, why can't you believe that God made science too, and gave it to us as a way to make sense of the world he made?

Erin.
::righteous babe::
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By balletsfriendmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 02:12 PM
I've never really believed that dinosaurs were real. Even when I was little. It just doesn't matter to me! I don't care if they did or didn't exist. It's not fundamental or detrimental to my beliefs at all. I have to admit that they are pretty awesome though.
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By teenydanseur
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 03:11 PM
i think there's a difference in not believing something is real/makes sense and completely disregarding facts/creating conspiracies to justify one thing but not another.

And what is the problem with dinosaurs existing? It creates a flaw for you in the bible, so you try to rationalize that it is more likely that some force planted bones and fossils and footprints and created oil in the earth that all scientifically links to dinosaurs but all other bones and fossils are real. Instead of just accepting that the Bible was probably curated in a time when they didn't know about fossils so they didn't know dinosaurs existed. This doesnt mean God doesn't exist, it just means that humans at the time put information together to create the bible the best they could and they screwed up the part about dinosaurs. Why is that a big deal. The bible teaches us humans are pretty good at making mistakes and you only have to read like two pages in to find that out.

This is like when people say the Holocaust didn't happen and all the evidence was made up. Who do they think is making up all of this evidence? Do you think the Holocaust was made up too? Or do you think it is ridiculous for me to compare the two disbeliefs? And why is it ridiculous, both have an enormous amount of evidence that they both happened/existed and for some reason people ignore that evidence and make up a conspiracy theory why that evidence is false.

I think its okay for you to state your opinion, but it's okay for others to point out that your opinion is flat out ridiculous. Which it is. And the ridiculousness has zero to do with you belief in God and more to do with common sense and reasoning
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution?
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 03:15 PM
GODWIN!!!
re: Please don't attack me....but dinosaurs/ evolution? (karma: 1)
By Odessamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Mar 14, 2010 03:18 PM
And after only 22 replies, as well! That's pretty early for a Godwin.

Erin.
::righteous babe::
Page:
Page 1 of 7: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

ReplySendWatch

Message locked, no more replies allowed
Powered by XP Experience Server.
Copyright ©1999-2020 XP.COM, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
XL
LG
MD
SM
XS
XL
LG
MD
SM
XS