Forum: Irish / Irish - Feiseanna

Irish - Feiseanna
You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside. (karma: 5)
By rosalinde Comments: 1973, member since Fri Jun 19, 2009
On Fri Apr 23, 2010 03:22 PM
Edited by rosalinde (213002) on 2010-04-23 15:28:00 Made a mistake re the bars
Edited by rosalinde (213002) on 2010-04-23 15:33:44 added websites and note
Made sticky by oz_helen (35388) on 2010-04-24 00:44:24

So you’re in a school that is affiliated with an organisation which has Open Platform (basically any organisation that’s not CLRG or Comdhail) and you’re thinking of taking part in a feis run by an organisation that’s not your own. But when you look at the syllabus, you discover (oh horror) that these folks run their feiseanna differently from what you’re used to!

What do you do?
Enter regardless without paying much attention to their rules (hey, if it works in your organisation, how different can it be elsewhere?) and hope for the best?
Or not enter at all because you’re scared?

Of course not! Dancing Open Platform is fun, as long as you’re prepared.

I’m a CRN dancer who loves to try out new organisations, and believe you me, I’ve raised a few eyebrows (mostly mine, really) along the way as I navigated the twisty roads that make up international feising! Now I get a kick out of trying out these new things, but I know from personal experience that many dancers get nervous enough as it is, thank you very much, and feel no need to add the suspense of not knowing what level you actually have to enter or whether your dance moves are in fact allowed!

For those dancers who are allowed to dance Open Platform, but feel unsure whether or not their steps are okay, or what level to enter, here is my little guide to CRN and WIDA. I have no experience with other organisations, as over here the only other organisations outside of these two are IDN (I’m going to try them this summer) and CLRG, who won’t let me dance at their feiseanna :P

Finally, before I go to the rules: remember to honour where you come from! Don’t change your steps to suit the other club (unless you have to – such as an Ard Grad CRN dancer who wants to enter a WIDA Intermediate Single Jig and finds out she has to scratch half her steps ...)! You are a representative of your own organisation and each organisation has a different and equally beautiful style -> that’s what makes Open Platform dancing so cool!!! Who knows, you might get inspired ...

Right, here we go:

LEVELS
CRN: 4 levels +1* : Bun Grad, Ullmhuchan, Mean Grad, Ard Grad, Craobh Grad
WIDA: 4 levels: Beginner, Primary, Intermediate, Open

Soft shoe: CRN and WIDA go up together.
If you’re in WIDA Primary, enter CRN Ullmhuchan.
If you’re CRN Ard / Craobh Grad, enter WIDA Open.
And so on.

Hard shoe: CRN doesn’t start hardshoe till Ullmhuchan, so CRN hardshoe is one level higher than WIDA
If you’re in WIDA Primary, enter CRN Mean Grad.
If you’re in CRN Ard Grad, enter WIDA Intermediate.
And so on.

* Only enter CRN Craobh Grad if you’re a WIDA Champion. If you’re in Open, but not a Championship winner, enter Ard Grad. Craobh Grad is sort of ‘Open plus’, to sort the real Champions from the ‘hobby Open dancers’ ... ;)

Dance speeds in CRN are faster than in WIDA!

DANCES PER LEVEL
CRN:
Bun Grad: Reel, Slip Jig, Single Jig, Light Jig.
Ullmhuchan and higher: Reel, Slip Jig, Single Jig, Treble Jig, Hornpipe.
Mean Grad and higher: add traditional and modern set to Ullmhuchan dances.
Two-hand and three-hand per level (so dances get more intricate as you move up).
Ceili: one level

WIDA:
All levels except Open: Reel, Slip Jig, Single Jig, Light Jig, Treble Jig, Hornpipe, traditional set (St Patrick’s Day only in Beginner), Premiership.
Open: delete Single Jig and Light Jig. Replace Premiership by Championship.
Two-hand, three-hand, ceili: one level.

RESTRICTED MOVES OR STEPS
CRN:
No toestands anywhere, regardless of age or level

WIDA:
Basic steps only in Single Jig and Light Jig
No toestands under 12 years old

NUMBER OF BARS OF EACH DANCE REQUIRED IN COMPETITION
CRN:
Each dance at least 40 bars (2.5 steps). Bun Grad, Ullmhuchan, Mean Grad Single Jig: know at least 64 bars (4 steps).
Note: if you don’t know that many steps, just repeat your steps! After 48 bars you are allowed to stop dancing, also in Single Jig.

WIDA:
Each dance 32 bars (2 steps) (except in Championship where you have to do 40 or 48 bars depending on the dance).

SYSTEM OF COMPETITION
CRN:
Music starts anew for each group of two or three dancers with a full intro. Other dancers wait side-stage. Adjudicator rings bell to alert you when you can stop dancing. All dancers get the same amount of bars to dance.

WIDA:
Pick-up system: all dancers are in a line. Each group of two dancers dances 32 bars (only first two dancers get a full intro), after which the next two dancers start dancing without a break inbetween.

COSTUME
CRN:
Bun Grad and Ullmuchan: school costume only (or skirt and blouse/T-shirt)
Mean Grad and up: solo dress allowed

Under 18: poodle socks only (glitter on socks allowed)
18 and up: tights only

Wigs: allowed, but not generally worn (unless you’re in the US)

No make-up or tanner under 12

WIDA:
Under 15:
Beginner: polo shirt and green skirt (or very simple costume for non-WIDA dancers). No hair pieces.
Primary and Intermediate: beginner outfit or school costume
Open: solo dress allowed

15 and up:
No specific rules. Use your own judgement as to how fancy you want your costume to be.

No rules regarding tights or poodle socks, but rhinestones socks are not allowed. Preferably no hard shoe buckles. Wigs are common.

No make-up or tanner under 12

MOVING UP
CRN:
1st place winner in an age group of at least 7 dancers moves up. Adjudicators can move dancers up if there are less dancers, if they think the dancers should move up. No merging of age groups on feis day.

WIDA:
1st place winner in an age group of at least 5 dancers moves up. Age groups can be merged on feis day to make dances qualifying (= at least 5 dancers in an age group).

Remember that, if you're not a total beginner (and you probably won't be if you want to go Open Platform), you have to start at a level similar to your own. I was in Mean Grad when I first went to a WIDA feis so I started in Intermediate. This is not just considerate towards the other dancers, it is in fact a rule in both CRN and WIDA.

HOW TO ENTER
CRN:
Contact feis organisation for a syllabus

WIDA:
Via website: www.worldirishdance.com

ORGANISATION WEBSITES
CRN:
www.crn.ie

WIDA:
www.worldirishdance.com

FINAL NOTE FROM LI'L OL' ME
These are the rules I've picked up from reading the websites and interpreting them. I may well have made some mistakes, in which case, please write a reply to make it up to date.

24 Replies to You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.

re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside. (karma: 1)
By AussieLauramember has saluted, click to view salute photos Comments: 1129, member since Sun Mar 07, 2010
On Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:45 PM
Somebody get some glue.... I mean, make it a sticky :)
Karma :)

Thankyou for posting this! You have put so much effort into it :)
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By DefyingGravityPremium member Comments: 5265, member since Sun Jan 19, 2003
On Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:02 AM
Love love love love this post. I've requested that it get stickied :) One thing you missed with WIDA is the legal moves in each level - here they are!

In beginners competitions: Skips, threes, sevens, hops, jump over / leap, cuts, points, single heels, jump, stamp, toes (at the back, no weight), kick the heel (as in St. Patrick's Day). Rocks are only allowed in St. Patrick's Day.
In primary competitions: All beginner moves plus front clicks, through clicks (passing clicks), rocks, quarter turns.
In intermediate and open competitions all movements are allowed.

If you are caught doing moves outside the level, you can't place in the top 3 even if you danced perfectly.

The legal moves in hard shoes aren't perfectly laid out like the soft shoe rules, but they're pretty obvious IMO. For example, a beginner can not do fast trebles and back trebles. The steps have to be level-appropriate.
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By rosalinde Comments: 1973, member since Fri Jun 19, 2009
On Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:24 AM
^ I know. I was thinking of adding them, but that would mean copying the entire rules ... and we can find those on the websites. It's kind of the same about CRN: there are tonnes of legal moves, but what dancers from other organisations need to know is what they CAN'T do. You're perfectly right in pointing it out though! ;)
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By Saoirse_89 Comments: 24, member since Fri Apr 30, 2010
On Sun Jun 13, 2010 01:04 PM
Very good post :P

Thanxx ;)
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By rosalinde Comments: 1973, member since Fri Jun 19, 2009
On Mon Jun 14, 2010 06:15 AM
^ You should've read it BEFORE the Venlo feis, silly girl! :D See you on Thursday!
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By JenBlackerbymember has saluted, click to view salute photos Comments: 900, member since Sun Feb 07, 2010
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:18 PM
wow...I only recently realized there were other organizations (I'm CLRG?) and thinking it would be cool to go to other feisana! Does anybody know if there are many in the Midwest Oklahoma/Texas area?
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By reel_faerie85member has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 4130, member since Mon Mar 08, 2010
On Tue Jul 06, 2010 04:28 AM
Jen I would check with your teacher 1st as some CLRG (or most) don't like you competing at open feis, and therefore you could be in line for a ban if you do.
Its not always the case but always check.
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By AsheDiochra Comments: 543, member since Sat Apr 06, 2002
On Thu Jul 08, 2010 05:25 PM
@JenBlackerby: There is at least one CRN school in Oklahoma; I know there is a feile in New Mexico.

irish-dance-ok.squarespace.com
www.belisamairishdance.com
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By rttew Comments: 236, member since Tue Jul 26, 2005
On Sat Jul 10, 2010 08:21 AM
There is also a feis being planned (albeit slowly) later this year for Houston.
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By IDHypnotistPremium member Comments: 419, member since Sun Feb 19, 2006
On Fri Aug 20, 2010 01:42 PM
NAIDF is hosting open platform feiseanna in October 2010 in NJ, April 2011 in Philadelphia and May 2011 in Springfield IL. Digital Feiseanna are run quarterly (all the benefits of a feis without the expense of travel). Others are in the planning stages.

Our annual North American Championships will be in July 2011 as well.

naidf.com
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By celticmomof3 Comments: 32, member since Sun Jan 23, 2011
On Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:53 AM
Thank you for posting. This was very helpful when our school participated in a CRN Feis in December.
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By ardgraddancer Comments: 70, member since Tue Oct 23, 2007
On Wed Nov 23, 2011 03:46 PM
A question about CRN if anyone can help, if you are in Mean Grad and win your regional award do you just move up in the 2 dances you danced or all dances? I think they were looking to change it from the 2 dances in the older age groups? Would be grateful if anyone can shed some light on this for me!
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By Carrigaline Comments: 61, member since Thu Jan 21, 2010
On Wed Nov 23, 2011 04:36 PM
Next to toe-stands, butterflies aren't allowed in CRN.
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By dancenoworlater Comments: 67, member since Thu Aug 04, 2011
On Wed Nov 23, 2011 05:14 PM
If you try voy.com/226089/ it has the most diverse conversations between Orgs I have been on.
Try there too if you can't find the answer. :) Thought that might help, info hard to find sometimes.
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By MsGail Comments: 7, member since Sat Jun 04, 2011
On Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:51 PM
While the Open Platform groups would welcome you, you will find the CLRG is outraged that there are other groups and make your TCRG's life miserable and that will probably be passed on to you, so check with your teacher and look into www.voy.com . . .
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By Megin Comments: 7, member since Sat Apr 14, 2012
On Sat Apr 14, 2012 01:29 AM
Having been a CLRG dancer most of my life and now recently a CRN dancer this is SOO helpful :D Thank you!
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By dub Comments: 31, member since Wed Sep 14, 2011
On Fri May 04, 2012 11:10 PM
What does crn stand for and is there only clrg in canada
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By rosalinde Comments: 1973, member since Fri Jun 19, 2009
On Mon May 21, 2012 12:17 AM
^ CRN stands for Cumann Rince Naisiunta
www.dance.net . . .
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By dancenoworlater Comments: 67, member since Thu Aug 04, 2011
On Tue May 22, 2012 11:49 AM
Heard WIDA is starting big branch in Canada with a lot of school already signed up. Might be end of summer? Not sure.

If you want more info on CRN or WIDA or any other open platform voy.com/226089/ is a great place!
All I know is a lot of stuff is in the works...
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By tausha1 Comments: 2, member since Fri Mar 11, 2011
On Thu Jul 19, 2012 05:28 PM
that would be great news. much more adult friendly. we have so few CLRG sanctioned feis in Ontario that have adult level as well as no TCRG who take on adults except for ceili.
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By facainath Comments: 23, member since Mon Jun 21, 2010
On Sat Jul 21, 2012 08:03 PM
Thank you so much for the information. You covered a lot of ground here!
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By KCID Comments: 14, member since Wed Nov 13, 2013
On Wed Nov 13, 2013 08:35 PM
Please don't forget RTN. Their rules are posted on rtnirishdance.com and also CRDM for those who are overseas is another OP organization and one should visit their website for their rules and regs also :)
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By KCID Comments: 14, member since Wed Nov 13, 2013
On Wed Nov 13, 2013 08:37 PM
if you go to Ashley irish dance she has a list of all OP feisanna that she knows of. Word of warning. If you are an ACTIVE clrg dancer, you cannot compete in OP. That is not an OP rule, but a clrg rule.
re: You want to dance Open Platform, but you don't know the rules? CRN & WIDA rules inside.
By KCID Comments: 14, member since Wed Nov 13, 2013
On Wed Nov 13, 2013 08:38 PM
NAIDF is no longer an active organization

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