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re: Proud to be American?
By Anon1234567890member has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 06:41 AM
Americans are spoiled because we're overprivaleged

You don't have any more privileges than anybody in my country.

Every place has nice aspects but when you put the total together this is the best.

Wow.

I am proud to be American because while we might not be perfect, we are getting closer every day.

Do you genuinely believe that? I don’t think it’s possible, because there’s no such thing as a perfect country so far as I’m concerned.
re: Proud to be American?
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 06:58 AM
^ Definitely. That doesn't mean we will ever BE perfect. No country can be perfect, just like how no person can ever be perfect. But we are TRYING to because that's what we stand for. I disagree with parts of our policy but I want to work for the government and try to make it better.
re: Proud to be American? (karma: 1)
By Shortgirl75member has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 08:21 AM
My daughter thinks the 4th of July is celebrating the birth of the flag. And something to do with dinosaurs and mermaids.


I tried explaining the founding fathers, declaration, yadda yadda....nope. Flag, dinosaurs and mermaids.
re: Proud to be American?
By Cadbury_Eatermember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 08:50 AM
Edited by oz_helen (35388) on 2010-07-21 23:34:36 attributed quote to correct person
Heart wrote:

I am proud to be American because while we might not be perfect, we are getting closer every day. We stand for liberty and equality, truth and justice. One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.


Mm I see you backtracked on your word about any country being perfect. Regardless, for a country that apparently stands for all that stuff, you've been hypocrites on them for some part. The land of the free while having slaves, for example. Indivisible, I say that socio economic status divides your country the most, with your capitalistic system. And man, I would want to be proud of the decisions America's made in the past.

Americans are spoiled because we're overprivaleged

It's all relative. Any first world country person is incredibly spoiled compared to a third country person. Ever heard of the 80:20 rule..80 percent of the world live with 20 percent of the wealth and resources, while 20 percent live with 80 percent of wealth and resources. So it's all comparative.

Merfi wrote:

As far as I can tell, the US is hardly any different from most other OECD countries. There are plenty of other places just as 'free' as the US, and a lot of them are generally considered to have higher standards of living according to various surveys.

Amen to that!

RattyPatty wrote:

I am so incredibly proud to be an American. I love being able to make my own decisions about my future and I have the opportunity to make something of my life.

Not the only country you can do that...

America is the ONLY true country where a person wanting to start a new life in a new country can and CAN become a US citizen if they so chose.

I thought other countries you could acquire citizenship also. Like quite a few.

Americans are the most luckiest people in the world. America is the land of plenty. Since it is the land of plenty, we must share our bounty with ourselves and the world. Religious values or not, this is the right thing to do. We, as Americans, must never forget somewhere there are people who have it worse or have nothing. We must also realize some of the greatest need is here at home.

The most eh? Most people say Nordic countries are the best. And being the land of the plenty, I'd think you'd have more to share around. Like you said, you must never forget those less fortunate. I just wish you followed through with more action. I mean even inside America, people's lives are still in ruins after Hurricane Katrina.

there's no reason I would ever want to leave because I can see it all here.

Well it's always been my opinion that you need to see the other places to evaluate your own. So are you saying you never leave the country? You can soak up all the worlds languages in America? You can experience having summer at Christmastime? You can experience the aura of 10000 year old Shinto temple? You can see koalas and kangaroos in their natural habitat? The list goes on....I can't believe you think you've seen the whole world in a country!


Can't be bothered quoting more, but mostly, America's not the only country with a democracy, not the only country with freedom etc, and it's not some rosey land where all are accepted. No, you were also not the trendsetters of everything that has come to be, whether a technological gidget or voting rights.

In short, I love living in my country. Australia is one of the luckiest countries in the world. I don't really display patriotism though, like I don't celebrate Australia day or partake in so called Aussie activities. I find it weird to be "proud" persay, as it was my luck of the draw I ended up being a citizen.There's so many other countries I'd relocate to before USA.
re: Proud to be American?
By Cienmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 09:02 AM
d4j, I wasn't trying to imply that anyone here is "less cultured" or whatever, or that you can't know how bad it is until you leave. What I'm saying is what some other posters have said since that post: we are not THAT unique. Freedom to vote, own property, make your own life decisions without complete government control, freedom to become a citizen? Yeah, we have that, but so do tons of other countries. Our democratic system is not unique, our possessions are not unique, even our languages are not unique. It bugs me when Americans are so prideful and say that we're this great, special country with things you can "only find here!" Because it's not true.
re: Proud to be American? (karma: 3)
By amarathPremium member
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 09:06 AM
Ugh. This is such a boring thread. I am especially loving all the Americans who have never lived outside of America talking about how much America sucks. Everywhere sucks if you look close enough.
re: Proud to be American?
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:39 AM
I don't see why you're tearing apart my post. Nowhere in my post did I say that America was perfect; not even close. I clearly disagree with many things that our government does and has done. I believe in the principles our country was founded on... I think we can all agree that they are good principles, can't we? Every countrys constitution echoes the same ideas. In the same way that any dancer, athlete, an human being strives for perfection - while aware that they will never reach it - so do countries.

I do want to travel to other countries. I have and will again. However what I was saying in that passage was that America was every climate and land form represented within its borders, and that we have enough diversity that you can expierence many things without having to leave. In fact I think the only thing we might lack is a tropical rainforest, though we may have one somewhere.

I don't know why people are so upset about loving your country and being proud of it. :/ don't you say those kind of things about colleges and sports teams? What's wrong with a little friendly rivalry? How can any of that be BAD??

We must understand the difference between the nation-state and its current (and past) policies. You can disagree with the politics and still love the state.

(Apologies for any typos, this is written on my Blaclberry).
re: Proud to be American?
By AlwaysOnStagePremium member
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:52 AM
Edited by AlwaysOnStage (90901) on 2010-07-05 10:55:58 When posting on the debate board, it's best to explain everything fully, so things are not taken out of context
Heart wrote:

I don't know why people are so upset about loving your country and being proud of it. :/ don't you say those kind of things about colleges and sports teams? What's wrong with a little friendly rivalry? How can any of that be BAD??


Well, I DO say it about colleges and sports teams; that it's dumb, counter productive, and ends up hurting society more than helping--one of the reasons that I don't watch sports. The problem with patriotism is that it implies that where you were born is a part of your identity, and when people start saying "my identity is better than your identity", it's WAY past friendly rivalry. I mean, think of any clash between people ever: religion, sex, race, culture....it's all saying "This is my identity and it's better than yours." "Nuh uh" "Ya huh". Adding invisible boarders between human kind and making that yet ANOTHER part of your identity can only be harmful.

This thread has made me try to remember where I heard the quote that is along the lines of "Patriotism is the pinnacle of mankind's violence and stupidity." While typing this up, I remembered: Albert Einstein. I don't mean for this to be completely supporting evidence to my theory, just a presentation that some respected people don't like Patriotism. Just like a "Related topics" more than "This is my argument".

"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!"
Albert Einstein


I also found a few others that seem relevant from the same [url-www.brainyquote.com . . .]website[/url]:
"I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth, and I am a citizen of the world."
Eugene V. Debs


"It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind."
Voltaire



I usually compare America to a Three-Year-Old: We're brand new, think we know everything, think our way is best, throw a fit when we don't get our way, and try to hide things we've broken under the antique rug. We're distracted by shiny objects, we have no respect for our surroundings, and for the most part we think we're invincible. While not every American is that way, the American people on the whole...I think it fits.
re: Proud to be American?
By Kekoamember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:01 AM
Edited by Kekoa (69553) on 2010-07-05 12:23:29
amarath wrote:

Ugh. This is such a boring thread. I am especially loving all the Americans who have never lived outside of America talking about how much America sucks. Everywhere sucks if you look close enough.


I don't think that's inherently true, as this thread shows. Plenty of people love America, love our government, love the way things work here. Others don't. I'm sure the exact same thing is true in the UK, Spain, Norway, etc. I don't have to travel outside of the country to realize that there are a lot of things about the US that I don't like. The "shortcomings" of other countries don't bother me in same way as "shortcomings" of the US, just because of my belief system. For example, if I were to move anywhere else, I'd want to move to Sweden or Norway. Many Americans would cringe in horror at the thought of leaving a democratic country (well, a republic if we're being technical) for a socialist country, but since my own views lean more towards socialism that wouldn't be a bad thing. I know that no country is perfect, but I have no doubt that (if not for my family), I would be happier in a different country because it would be a more perfect fit for me.

I said it earlier, but I'll say it again...extreme patriotism irks me, because many people think everyone should be on their knees, crying with joy for being lucky enough to be American. If you don't feel that way, "well then just get out!" I have my school, my family, my friends here. I didn't pick to be born here, and while I'm thankful I wasn't born in a third world country, I don't feel pride over something I can't control, any more than I'm joyfully thankful for having blonde hair or being tall. I guess I'm from a weird military family, because my parents aren't over the top either...they want to buy a house in Costa Rica and live there like 10 months out of the year.
re: Proud to be American? (karma: 1)
By CheesePlusCakemember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:15 PM
Ah. I don't get why non-Americans are picking on the ones who say what they like about their country (except maybe the ones who make super extreme statements...I don't think the USA is the "only" country to have anything). So what if we're not the only country with legal/social privileges? Does that mean we can't like the fact that we have them? I don't think the fact that other countries can do it too is the point? And I don't think most people are saying that we're the only place where those things are possible...

I see it along the lines of someone saying.

"I like my house. It has a blue door."

and someone replying with

"Um, your house isn't the only house with a blue door. My house has one too."

How does that make sense?? That's like saying the fact that I like the blue door should be negated because other people have blue doors.




As for patriotism... I think nationalism makes more sense. When I think of patriotism, I think of government parades and shows that try to convince people that they are amazing and that the citizens should like them.

When I'm abroad, I like being there (wherever I am) more than at home just because I'm experiencing a new lifestyle. Home seems boring to me. What I may miss are some cultural aspects and, of course, family, but I don't miss "America" if that makes sense. When I spent a few months in China, I was actually refreshed (and somewhat surprised) about how open the people there are to some things that Americans are sooo closed about. If I walked around wearing something crazy I wasn't judged (and people wear some crazy stuff there haha). If someone made a remark (though this may be more of the younger generation) people wouldn't go OMGAH I'M SO OFFENDED like many Americans would. They'd just talk about it. I feel like Americans look for things to be offended about and it annoys me. And yea, that's a cultural thing. But it's definitely not something I missed when I was abroad. A bunch of the people I was with, though, definitely felt we could be more ourselves just because people didn't seem to judge as much as people do back home. But then again, I did miss "Americans" in other instances also because of cultural differences. I missed being able to dress up, go out, and dance without people thinking I was crazy or inappropriate, while my Chinese friends would rather stay in and karaoke (which was also fun). I didn't miss my government (except when I tried to log onto facebook and had to go through proxies aha) when I was there, I missed aspects of our culture.

I also studied immigration and nationalism when I went to Singapore and Thailand, and none of the people said they would move away, though some wanted to work abroad for a while and then come home. Most of the people I interviewed also didn't like their governments, so that's not where the tie was. What bound them home was their family, the people, the food... just things that make the place "home." I don't think that's irrational.


I think that rather than being "proud" of my country's accomplishments, I am more of glad. When in China, I was glad that where I live, I can practice any religion and not face being arrested if it wasn't an officially approved religion. I was glad that I can move anywhere to try to make a living, and not be stuck in my province. I was glad that there are more employment opportunities, especially for graduates. I was glad that I didn't have to take a test to determine what my university major would be and what school I'd have to go to. I was glad that I didn't have to watch what I said or face being arrested. I wouldn't say I was proud, though, because as people have mentioned, I was born into my situation, I didn't create it. But then the extremists also have to realize that nowhere is perfect. I could be proud that my country takes in the most refugees... And then unproud of how some of them are selected. I could be proud that everyone here has the right to an education... and then unproud of how the system fails so many people. There's good and bad everywhere.
re: Proud to be American?
By d4jmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:41 PM
Just because Voltaire said something doesn't make it fact. The definition of patriot is 'one who loves, supports and defends one's country'. That DOESN'T mean you are an enemy of the rest of mankind.

Why is everyone STILL assuming that to be proud of your country and to support it means that you must dislike and not support other countries? Why are you making that connection? It makes YOU look like a three year old if you can't handle pride. National pride, team pride, family pride, pride in oneself, it's psychologically healthy. To feel good about yourself and where you live and what you stand for is a good thing. It doesn't mean that everyone and everything around you sucks or pales in comparison, sheesh! Actually, it's called FOOLISH pride when you have a sense of superiority or arrogance towards others. Pride, just like any other emotion, exists on a continuum and can morph into something ugly, but doesn't automatically go that way. Pride doesn't equate with 'extreme' patriotism.
re: Proud to be American? (karma: 1)
By Meganmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:47 PM
^The only issue I take with pride is when a person thinks something of theirs is superior to someone else's when in reality, it's not better, just different. I have already made my responses to some of the ridiculous comments about the things that make America supposedly better than other countries, so I won't touch those again.

To use the blue door example seen above me, what I'm responding to is not "I have a blue door", but "I am the only one with a blue door, and I invented the blue door, and the blue door is the best colour of door." And for me to then reply "Well, actually, I have a blue door too, the invention of the blue door was more of a collaborative effort starting way before you were born, and really, the blue door isn't necessarily the best colour door for everyone," is pretty reasonable, no?

I'm not saying all of you have said these things, I'm just addressing the reasons I personally have replied to this thread in the manner I have.
re: Proud to be American? (karma: 1)
By AlwaysOnStagePremium member
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 02:48 PM
d4j wrote:

Just because Voltaire said something doesn't make it fact. The definition of patriot is 'one who loves, supports and defends one's country'. That DOESN'T mean you are an enemy of the rest of mankind.


It doesn't sound like you read what I wrote, and what I made sure to have above the quotes. I wrote in that last post, I found those quotes because I remembered the Einstein quote. I put right above it that it's NOT an argument for this thread, and that it's NOT evidence, support, etc. Just that they are related, and that this debate has been going on for quite some time. Not once did I say that it's a fact, just that it was a 'related topic.'
re: Proud to be American?
By d4jmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 03:17 PM
^I did read your post, every word of it. You say it's not part of your supporting argument but then why would you still pile on respected people's quotes in an effort to say, 'See? Important people think patriotism is stupid too'?
re: Proud to be American?
By AlwaysOnStagePremium member
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 03:41 PM
^No, I added them because I thought they were interesting. I don't believe them because they were said by cool people, but I thought they were a related subject matter and decided to add them, and I noted that they aren't a part of the argument and shouldn't be taken as such. I also included the link of where I found the words, where you can find just as many (if not more) quotes pro-patriotism as anti-patriotism. Thanks for playing.
re: Proud to be American?
By MarlaSingermember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jul 05, 2010 04:14 PM
I wouldn't say that I'm proud to be an American, because generally the things that I'm proud of are things that I've earned. I'm proud of being a college graduate, I'm proud of the fact that I take care of my body and my health, I'm proud of the great relationship I have with my partner, and I'm proud to be financially independent. It's hard for me to muster up the same sort of pride about the place where I just happened to be born. I do feel fortunate that I was born somewhere where I have a lot of opportunities that many others don't have, and I would feel the same way had I been born in any other first-world country.

On the other hand, I don't love everything about American culture, but I'm not ashamed of it either. It's just part of who I am. I am a product of the society I was born into, like it or not. It has shaped who I am in fundamental ways. Even when I choose to reject certain aspects of American culture, those choices are still influencing the person that I am. It's all part of being American. And there are things I love about American culture too. It's hard for me to imagine not being American, because it's just who I am. I can't imagine going to another country and denying being American just because some people have preconceived notions about what it means to be from America. That's really sad to me. I would rather be a positive example of what an American can be than deny being American in the first place.

When I was in college, it was really popular (especially among those of us who weren't Bush supporters) to say that you were ashamed of being American, wanted to move to Europe or Canada, etc, etc, but now that we're all in our late 20s, I don't hear people saying it as much. I think as you get older, you realize that everyone is just trying to muddle through life as best as they can, no matter who you are or where you're from. Griping about the way other people live their lives doesn't actually make your life any better. If you genuinely don't enjoy living in the United States and feel that you would be happier living elsewhere, and you have the opportunity to move, I totally support that. But if you like living here, and the only issue you have is the way other Americans act, or the way people from other countries perceive us, my advice would be to not worry about it so much. Live your life the way you want to live it, and don't worry about what that label of "American" might mean. It's not a cross you have to bear; it's just your nationality.
re: Proud to be American?
By hylndlasmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jul 06, 2010 07:41 PM
I may be an Earth mama hippy now......but I do love my country.

I spent 8 years of service to this country something most people in this thread haven't done for various reasons....and I would gladly do so again.

I do not agree with everything the USA does BUT I can say after living on another continent for an extended amount of time I would rather live here than any of the 10 or so countries I've been to or lived in.

No offense to any of those other places....I liked them alright.And I found them to be nice places to live. I just prefer it here. I'm sure if I grew up in another part of the world I'd rather live there.



Some of my family was Native to this land and had lived here for hundreds of years before the Europeans came. I guess in that regard America is in my veins.

Maybe that is why I am so drawn to staying here.
re: Proud to be American?
By Liritmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri Jul 09, 2010 09:21 PM
I don't think there's anything wrong with being proud of your country for no reason other than it being home. That's enough for me. And this comes from one who has seriously contemplated moving to other countries, and who knows, one of these days I still might, but I'll always be proud of being an American.

If nothing else, the US allows room through it's system of government to make improvements. I love the fact that if I don't like something my country has done that I can speak out against it, and work for the greater good. I can't stand the brand of patriotism that tells people, "If you don't like it, leave," because that isn't a principle this country was founded on. I'm more of a, "If you don't like it, change it" sort of girl, and I think our founding fathers were too (well, maybe they weren't so feminine, but you get the gist).

Other countries allow for this too, and I'm neither so naive or ignorant to believe otherwise, nor to believe our system is the greatest system no matter what else. But I still think what we have is pretty special.
re: Proud to be American? (karma: 5)
By iliahmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:22 PM
Edited by iliah (130543) on 2010-07-09 22:22:52
I think you (collective you) should be proud of being American...because you have the legal right to debate that statement.

In many countries you'd be arrested for even saying that you doubt your pride in *insert country*
re: Proud to be American?
By Miss_Tami_Leemember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:52 PM
I lived in Europe (Germany to be exact) for over 10 years, and have been back in the States for about 5 years now.

I wouldn't consider myself a patriot, but I do like living in the US better, hence why I moved back. Yes, Europe is gorgeous and the food is so much better and people aren't as fat. But I just like the US better.

I love how cheap everything is here. Europe was so expensive! Plus America is huge. I know people in every corner of the country and they love it when I visit them. Going to the South really is like visiting another country. Where I live now LA and Las Vegas are an hour flight away. I love taking weekend trips down there.

i just think it's more fun in the US. Well, once you're 21 anyways.
re: Proud to be American?
By Nyssasisticmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sat Jul 10, 2010 01:34 PM
I'm proud to be an American. Where else can you get Pizza delivered right to your front door?

(Okay, okay, I know that other countries have pizza delivery too... I was just basing that statement off of Doug Adams' "The Long Dark Tea Time of The Soul")

:D
re: Proud to be American?
By DeStijlmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jul 12, 2010 06:57 PM
Edited by oz_helen (35388) on 2010-07-21 23:13:03 veiled profanity is not permitted
Australian here. I don't think there is anything wrong with being patriotic - being proud and feeling satisfied with the country you live in. It's a nice feeling to belong, no matter where you belong - America included.

However there is a distinct difference between patriotist and being a nationalist, and to me, nationalism is uncool. If you ignore your countries flaws and raise it above all others without consideration to the bigger global picture simply because it's 'your country' - than you're a bit ignorant in my books.

Australia has a nationalist problem. I consider myself patriotic. I cry at dawn services for diggers. I think our landscapes are unique and beautiful. I feel lucky that I can vote, and enjoy my civil liberties. For example, I don't celebrate Australia day (the day capitain cook claimed Australia for the crown, also the day our aboriginal people were dispossesed of their country and decades of genocide began) , but I revel in the fact that I live in a country where I am allowed to make that decision. I don't believe in flying my flag on my back and screaming 'were full, rack off!' at refugees. I don't feel comfortable openly critisizing other countries I don't know much about.

I think it's a dangerous thing to believe, without having travelled and researched extensivly first , that your country is hands down better than any other country - but I don't think there is anything wrong with having a sense of national identity and acknowledging the good and bad in your homeland.
re: Proud to be American?
By xMJx
On Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:20 PM
Edited by xMJx (59459) on 2010-07-12 23:22:18
"Proud" is a weird way of thinking about it, as others have mentioned, but am I glad to be American... that's really relative for me. When I was living in China, I was very glad that I was American (note: not "proud" of it, as I pretended to be Canadian, I figured it was safer that way), because of the environmental standards we have that China does not (or has and ignores), having more freedom of speech, etc. But after spending time in Germany, it was the opposite for me. I wished I lived there, and still do. So, overall yes/no. I like it better than some places, but less than others.
re: Proud to be American?
By dancin_til_death
On Tue Jul 13, 2010 07:44 AM
Everyone should be proud of their country, and all of us should be grateful for it too.

However to say one has the best system in the world needs careful thought. It implies the other countries are worse off, this is simply not the case. There are some things about America which disturb me. Your health system is appalling. I find the class system in America kind of scary. I'm in one of the best universities in Australia studying medicine. If I was American, my family simply wouldn't be able to afford to do the equivalent in the US.

I do love your president though, and I love how much you guys embrace your democracy. I think that's really special.
re: Proud to be American?
By KayEllePremium member
On Tue Jul 13, 2010 07:11 PM


:D
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