Forum: Arts / Debates

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re: Are all men equal/ Is all human life equal?
By girlwithghilliesmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:26 AM
The constructive blue collar job would be fantastic, if a person could support themselves adequately with one.. or even obtain one. I'm having a time and a half getting a job in anything, McDonald's included, and I'm a put-together, well spoken university biochem student. I can't imagine how difficult it must be for people who haven't had the head start I've been lucky enough to get.

Dani summed it up pretty well. I truly believe that we all have the same worth. We are more often than not a product of our upbringing. Not just the parenting we have received, but schooling, socioeconomic status, and many other factors contribute. I agree that some people are beyond any help, but we are no better if we treat them with cruelty. I doubt I would think twice about the need to seriously injure or kill in self-defense or defense of another, but I don't think that has much to do with people's worth - you have the right to personal safety, and other people have the right to enforce theirs. In any case, I have seen some of the best and some of the worst in human behavior, and I believe that people can change.
re: Are all men equal/ Is all human life equal?
By Liritmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:29 AM
I absolutely believe all human life is equal.

Different does not mean greater or less than. Two dimes and a nickel, five nickels, and a single quarter are all different, but they're also worth the same. Likewise, the "cracked out whore" and the rapist, and all the other so-called "scum of the earth" are all human - just like you and me.

We all make different choices. We all have different values. We also all have the opportunity to make the world a changed place.

He who finds the cure for cancer may also be a child molester. How do you suppose he'd be remembered?

31 years old. Logistician.
re: Are all men equal/ Is all human life equal? (karma: 3)
By SiyoNqobamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Aug 24, 2010 02:32 AM
Dancing_EMT wrote:

^ I don't necessarily think so. If someone wants to become something, but they were born poor, they can become something. As a senior in high school, we were given a 50 page book of scholarships and resources to help us pay for school. Resources ARE out there if someone truly wants to become something other than a thug or hooker.


For a young woman in the Democratic Republic of the Congo who was violently gang raped during the war and has urine and blood continuously streaming from between her legs, and so is now unmarriagable and therefore probably won't get food or a place to live, this doesn't stand so strong. You and I, with all our resources, we are a privileged few.

(Collective "you", by the way :))

I believe that all human life has equal value.

The privileges I have are not equal to the privileges others have. Some have more privileges then me, many more have far fewer. Neither are the choices we make. But I believe that our inherent value is equal.

I do not believe that value is founded in what a person does. I think this is important, because it seems that everyone who is saying human life is not equal, is saying that it's because some people don't do things on the same scale as others. I believe that our value is found in the very fact that we are. Our worth is inherent. It is unchanging, no matter what we do. We can never work to make ourselves more worthy, and we can never do something that makes us worthless. I believe that we have worth, and that it's equal whether you're the president of a large company, or a mama-san in a brothel in South East Asia.

I would care about the man holding a knife to someone's throat. I'm sorry, I would. Because he is still a person, and something has happened to make him decide to do something so awful. He was once a baby. He has hopes and fears and sometimes he cries. He is still a person, and I could never say that he was of any less value then me.

21 years old, children's worker.
re: Are all men equal/ Is all human life equal? (karma: 1)
By Sumayah
On Tue Aug 24, 2010 09:20 AM
jazz_lover wrote:

Do you believe that all men/human life are equal? ( All men are created equally thus they are of the same value)


That's two different questions to me. As Lirit was saying, the end value can be made up of various different means. So in that we are all of the human family, if you merely look at that fact, then yes, our value as a breathing, living life is equal. The breath I take is just as vital to me as it is to you. The food and shelter I have is just as needed for me as it is for you.

Here's where things diverge though. That is merely looking at a human life verses a human life, it does not take into any account the actions of the person or the challenges they face. All men are not equal because our quality of life is so vastly different. The child born with serious defects is not equal to the baby born normally. The treatments/surgeries/struggles the child with birth defects will go up against is not equal to the life the normal child will experience. It does not lessen the value of human life to human life, the sickly child has just as much right to live as the healthy one, but the two are not equal. The child with disabilities is going to have a dynamically different childhood and life course than the normal child. Expectations and accomplishments will be adjusted and adapted based on the needs of each respective child. Again, their right to life is the same, but their equality as people is not the same.

What people do with their lives does have an impact on what their value is made up of.

Lirit wrote:

Two dimes and a nickel, five nickels, and a single quarter are all different, but they're also worth the same.


Their inherent value (25 cents) may be the same, but the coins themselves have more or less attractiveness. If you show up at my store and buy something that cost $10 and you pay with a $10 bill, then great. Two fives? Still good. Ten ones? Well you're making do with what you have. 40 quarters? You're probably going to apologize and feel a little embarrassed. If you bring in 100 dimes, you're now starting to look desperate. 200 nickles? 1000 pennies? If you make me count out 1000 pennies for a $10 dollar item, I'm not going to let you do it. I'll tell you you need to go to the bank and exchange your change for paper money. Yes 1000 pennies equals a $10 dollar bill, but they are not equal in practical value. Practically, the $10 bill is better because it takes up less space and it is easier to purchase items with.

Human value is much the same. Human life = human life, but how they make up their life and how they take advantage of opportunities makes their practical worth more or less. The crack whore and the attacker with the knife are worth less to me because of their choices, they're pennies. The person who did something to not become the whore or attacker is made of better stuff. They may all equal the same thing, but their practical value in society is dramatically different.
re: Are all men equal/ Is all human life equal?
By Storyteller
On Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:16 AM
Age: 36
Occupation: Teacher

Men are not created equally; anyone different from ourselves will be valued as such but the common factor between everyone is access to the mutual repsect of life; this mutual respect of life places its existence at the forefront of values, even when others try and shift its meaning or relative value.

How people choose to have a relationship with that respect is up to them, through disrespect they may try and exclude themselves and that is the burden any society/individual must try and surpass, so as to remain worthy.
re: Are all men equal/ Is all human life equal? (karma: 2)
By aerial
On Tue Sep 21, 2010 08:39 PM
I think I know more of where you were going with that question. I worked in the EMS and fire field for years, yes most people in that profession do place a value on life. I don't always agree with it but children are valued more than adults. I have been on many full cardiac arrests where the adult had been down for a little time even a mid life adult say 40 and we would get them to the hospital and the doctor would call it (pronounce the patient dead) right away where as I don't think I worked a single child/infant code where the doctor didn't try for 45 minutes to a hour or more trying to revive it even when there were obvious signs they were definatly dead. We were even taught specifically in Paramedic school that if there are obvious sings of death of an adult we were allowed to not work the code and inform family that their loved one was dead but if the patient was a baby or child we were instructed to always transport the patient to the hospital and try your best so the family wouldn't get upset. As far as the medical profession you are harshly judged and a value is placed on your life. Look ar organ doner wait lists, if you are in bad need and you are older you are probably out of luck and if your life style contributed somehow to your health decline forget about it, you can pray all you want! Heck you could have been a drunk for 10 years in bad need of a liver who stopped drinking for the past 20 years and you probably won't get that liver because you made a mistake and to society you are somehow less of a person than someone who didn't drink. So there is some prespective from the medical world. As far as my personal beliefs it is really case by case. I personally don't think a 5 year old child is worth more than a 20 year old adult just because he/she is so young. But I do tend to think logically if the margins were more like a 90 year old or a 9 year old needing a new heart I would give it to the 9 year old, because there is a point when death is a natural step. I have also seen a lot of families refuse to give up on Dad/Grandpa whomever in terrible situations. I have had to work a code on a 98 year old male who was bed confined literly rotting away in a nursing home with terminal painful awful throat cancer because the family didn't want to let him go, and to me that is just flat out selfish.
re: Are all men equal/ Is all human life equal?
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Sep 23, 2010 05:52 PM
^ Good points, and I agree, that's kind of crap. I hate the fact that little kids are somehow worth "more" than adults - even young adults. In reality, what has that kid ever contributed to society?! I know they're little and cute and *full of possibilities*, but come on now, get a grip.

In any way you could possibly quantify life - apart from ~*possibility*~ (and even then, as has been previously mentioned, this itself is limited in scope) - kids are worth less than adults or teenagers of any age. Net worth, earning potential, even how many people they know or whose lives they affect.






I fully intend on coming back and haunting the crap out of everyone involved if I die of a cardiac arrest and I'm not worked on for a good half hour.






Different does not mean greater or less than.

No, but it definitely CAN mean that.
re: Are all men equal/ Is all human life equal?
By maureensiobhan
On Fri Sep 24, 2010 08:53 AM
I would care about the man holding a knife to someone's troat.


I wouldn't care about that man. To me, that man is the absolute scum of the earth.

Because he is still a person, and something has happened to make him decide to do something so awful.


I say, who cares about whether someting has happened to make him do something so awful. The fact remains that he decided to do it.

He has hopes and fears and sometimes he cries.


Sure. The only hopes and fears he has is whether he will get caught and charged with a magor felony. If he cries, it's only because he wound up getting caught.

He is still a person, and I could never say that he was of any less value than me.


I still say I don't see him a person. He is of less value than law-abiding citizens who work to make a positive difference to society. The only thing this man has done is destroy someone's life. How can that make any difference to society?

These things said, a violent felon is of much less value than a law-abiding citizen.
re: Are all men equal/ Is all human life equal? (karma: 1)
By kandykanePremium member
On Fri Sep 24, 2010 09:19 AM
The only hopes and fears he has is whether he will get caught and charged with a magor felony. If he cries, it's only because he wound up getting caught.


Uh... you really don't know that. As a human, he has a soul. Judgemental, much?

kk~
re: Are all men equal/ Is all human life equal?
By SiyoNqobamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri Sep 24, 2010 08:18 PM
Edited by SiyoNqoba (34789) on 2010-09-24 20:27:15
Edited by SiyoNqoba (34789) on 2010-09-24 20:30:24
maureensiobhan wrote:

I wouldn't care about that man. To me, that man is the absolute scum of the earth...I say, who cares about whether someting has happened to make him do something so awful. The fact remains that he decided to do it...Sure. The only hopes and fears he has is whether he will get caught and charged with a magor felony. If he cries, it's only because he wound up getting caught...I still say I don't see him a person. He is of less value than law-abiding citizens who work to make a positive difference to society. The only thing this man has done is destroy someone's life. How can that make any difference to society?


All you know about this non-existant man is that he's holding a knife to someone's throat. I don't understand how you can say with absolute conviction that he's the scum of the earth, that all he cares about is getting caught, and that all he's done is destroyed someone's life.

How do you know he's not holding a knife to the throat of the man who killed his wife and children?
re: Are all men equal/ Is all human life equal?
By blochpointesalltmember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:37 PM
I believe that all humans are equal in the way that we all have certain undeniable human rights that cannot and should not be revoked no matter the circumstance. Mass murderers have the same rights to life, basic health care, freedom from torture and slavery, physical safety, autonomy, food, shelter, equality under law, freedom of thought/speech/religion, education, etc that I, the president of the United States, terrorists, Jesus, the homeless man down the street, buddha, and the meth addicted kids I go to school with, all have/had when they were alive.

Age 15, Student
re: Are all men equal/ Is all human life equal?
By MrsFinnigan
On Tue Oct 26, 2010 06:45 PM
36 year old writer, dance instructor, and EMT.

All human life is of equal worth and is to be cherished. I don't think equality means sameness. 2+2 and 3+1 are not the same, but they are equal.

Now people can deserve more or less based on their actions, but nobody is inherently "the scum of the earth." And in EMS, if you treat someone as inferior, that puts you in dangerous ethical territory and at risk of delivering inferior care due to bias.

If a criminal was holding a knife to the throat of an innocent person, I would want the victim to be saved, not because the victim is worth more, but because the victim faces an immediate life threat and has a more pressing need for help.

Friends in the army have told me that whenever possible, they had to deliver first aid to all wounded, even enemy combatants.
re: Are all men equal/ Is all human life equal?
By dancin_til_death
On Fri Nov 05, 2010 02:17 AM
age: 21
occupation: 3rd year medical student, part time mental health clinic manager

I believe people are all equal.

However society doesn't treat us that way. Obviously based on where you grew up, your economic status, how hard you work and what you give back will dictate your place in society and how much sociey values you as a person.

I think its really hard to judge someone though. I am contributing, but I had an amazing childhood and family. My parents loved me, supported me. They didn't do drugs, we had money. I went to a private school, and I've had so many opportuniites. Yet society will give us a place.

I used to think only some people deserved to have their lives told eg. the type of person someone would make a documentary about. I then watched a documentary on sex slavery and heard stories from women who'd been sold and raped repeatably. They're people too, and their story is just as valuable as someone who has made a large different to the community.

Compare killing Barack Obama to killing an Columbian refugee. Clearly the way society would react demonstrate stark diffrences in how we value these two individuals.

Despite all of this, I want some incentive to do well. I work hard, and I'd like to be rewarded for it.
re: Are all men equal/ Is all human life equal?
By RedheadGredmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Dec 14, 2010 02:05 PM
Age: 23
Occupation: Barista and anthropology student

I believe that everyone is created equally. Like many others I feel like those who do horrible acts like murder, rape, etc damage themselves. I am 100% against the death penalty and don't think anyone should be put to death no matter what crimes they have committed. So even after all this I still believe that people are created equally. I wouldn't want a murderer to die just like I wouldn't want an innocent person to die.

It is sometimes difficult to view everyone as equal when I see some of the horrible things that people do. I believe that everyone is equal in the sense that everyone has the right to live. I don't think someone is better than someone else based on occupation or who their family is. An average person is just as important as the President. Royalty does not deserve to live more than a homeless person. The examples are endless.

So I do believe that all human life is equal.
re: Are all men equal/ Is all human life equal?
By houndrfriendPremium member
On Fri Dec 17, 2010 07:38 AM
All men are not equal,just look at all the different heights,but if you are talking about it legally then all men are equal and all have an equal vote in countries such as England and the USA.Occupation,too many to write about it.I notice3d one person said they werea police volunteer.Would you believe that I once worked for 18 months in a Dept Of Corrective Services and also about a year in a police dept.I have also done so many other things.Age...it keeps changing every day.
re: Are all men equal/ Is all human life equal?
By Lev_Nougol
On Wed Jan 26, 2011 03:05 PM
I find myself very conflicted, not only when in such a situation when a decision must be made, but also even now in this simple discussion.

I always want to save both the spider and the butterfly (10 points if you catch the reference).

I understand them both, I know what they want and need, and I know why.
But when it comes down to it, when I have an emotional stake in things, it's so hard to contain the urge to crush the spider to save the butterfly.

Part of me feels like I don't have the right to make that call, any call.
That I shouldn't interfere with life.
Yet, I am also a part of life, a part of the world around me, and I affect it whether through action or inaction.

I want to save them both...and I try so very hard to that end...but when it comes down to it, I just want my butterfly back, back home with me, safe and sound.
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