I'm not married, but this has to do with people who are either married or in long-term relationships, so I hope no one minds that I posted it here.

What is with the bashing of one's spouse/partner, marriage in general, or the opposite sex in general? I hate it sooooo much, and yet when I'm in a group of people who start up a conversation like this, it always seems like I'm the only one who doesn't participate. People who don't know me well tend to think that I must either be single or young and naive about relationships, just because I don't bash my partner or the institution of marriage.

As an example, last night in my pole fitness class, our instructor started asking one woman what her husband thought about her taking pole classes. The woman just kind of shrugged and said he was okay with it. Then she said to another woman, "And you're single, right?" The woman confirmed that she was, in fact, single, and the instructor said, "Oh, you're soooo lucky! Enjoy it while you can! I'm single too, and I love it! I can buy whatever I want without someone complaining, I can go biking whenever I want, I can go shopping whenever I want with my friends... " and the other woman who's married said, "Oh god, that would be so great." And I kept my mouth shut, but I was thinking, "Well, that's pretty much what my life is like too, but I've been in a committed relationship for 8 years, living with the guy for 4 years, so I wouldn't exactly say I'm single."

Another time at work a supervisor mentioned that two of her billing reps were getting married on the same weekend, and all of the supervisors started talking about how we should all be in mourning for them and basically that their lives were going to go downhill now that they were getting married. They noticed I didn't say anything, so I just said, "Well, I'm not married, so I really can't comment," and someone said, "You're the smart one!" and they all laughed.

Another woman who used to work in the department with me CONSTANTLY talked about how her husband had no idea how to run a washing machine, how he was a slob, lazy, etc, etc, and would often sum up by saying, "But he's a man," like you couldn't possibly expect anything better from a man. And to be honest, I could relate to some of the things she said, because Mark is not the neatest guy in the world, but it just doesn't occur to me to come into work and start running my mouth about what a lazy, worthless slob my partner is.

And finally, last example, at my old job I sat by two women, one of whom was a newlywed, and the other of whom was single. And they would blab on all day long about how men suck because of this, that, and the other, basically concluding that men are stupid, sex-crazed, lazy, slovenly pigs.

I could go on and on, but you get the gist. This kind of conversation drives me up the wall. Why do people do this? Are they just bitter about being single or unhappily married? Do they really just find this kind of thing hilarious? I just don't see how anyone could not see this as being incredibly disrespectful to their partner or to the opposite sex, but maybe I just need to lighten up.

Thoughts?

I don't fully understand it either...my boyfriend and I are also long-term and we do things separately if we want/need to. It's not a huge deal.

He thinks that a lot of people lack trust in their relationships and that's what causes these issues. I do know one couple like that...they do almost everything together because neither one of them trusts the other. It's really very sad...and I hardly ever get to hang out with my friend because her douchey husband is around so much!

I really can't stand the "man-hate" conversations too. B has his flaws, I assure you, but I see no need to sit and gossip about them. It's one thing to talk to a close friend about an issue to bounce the problem around and get a feel for what needs to be said or done, and then either speak to him or do whatever when I've come to a conclusion. It's a completely other thing to sit there nitpicking his flaws to anyone who listen. I certainly wouldn't want him talking about me and my flaws to everyone. I'd hope he had more respect for me and our marriage than that. But then I think most of the issues I have in the world revolve around respect. Pet peeve of mine.

It's traditional.

The wife is "the old ball and chain" who cramps the man's style and never lets him do what he wants to do - she becomes his mom.

The man is useless around the house and treats the woman like a slave and he has no idea what foreplay is - he becomes a naughty child.

People have been doing this since time immemorial. As far as my experience goes, it's dying out. Couples share housework and social lives, so it's not a case of the woman being the slave and the man having his pubbing and clubbing curtailed. They're doing those things together anyway.

I think back in the day, before most couples lived together before marriage, it was pretty accurate. The woman WOULD have to do all the housework and the man would be more restricted.

I do occasionally come across women who are still man-haters and insist on their spouse being home at a certain time (why?) etc, and he's in deep doodoo if he's late, or forbidding them to go to football/the pub etc. Perhaps some of us are waking up to the fact that we don't own our partners. Occasionally Tim will go out with his friends and some of them will say "oh, Louise has stamped your pass for tonight then?" Whaaaaa? I'd be mortified if he asked permission. I guess those men had bad experiences with controlling women; either their moms or ex-wives.

Anyway...you're not the only one. Sometimes Tim and I adopt those roles as leg-pulling, but I wouldn't say it in public lest someone not get the joke.

Feminism has a lot to answer for. Cosmopolitan has a lot to answer for.

I've been married twenty years this year and I don't really get the whole, my husbands really useless talks either.

It's not because I'm married to a saint, I'm not, there are things he does that bug me but that's just what you have to learn to cope with when you live with another person.

I do get the having to give off steam about something that your partner has done but get over it, discuss it with them, not the whole world.

Perhaps it's because they don't communicate with their partner that they have tell everyone else instead? I don't know, I find it odd when I hear someone verbally bashing their partner in public.

How many of these women who complain are giving as much as they think they are not getting? (Lol, does that make sense?)

For every annoying thing my husband does I try to think of one annoying thing that I do. Keeps things fair and paints a more realistic picture of what living with someone is actually like.

Methinks there are a lot of unequal partnerships with average to below average communication skills.

Helen

Sometimes, they are kidding.

Sometimes, they are unhappy.

Sometimes, they are unhappy AND kidding.

As I look around me, I see more unhappy couples than happy couples.

kk~

I agree with KK. I think some people are unhappy and this is a passive aggressive way to deal with it. I think there are times when I joke about my husband and the "male" things he does. We are wired differently and there are certain things the male population is proned to doing and same with females. There are studies about this and if you take some time to learn about men and how they operate you say, "Oh I get it...this has nothing to with how they feel about me. It just makes sense for them to do it this way." (BUT I digress.)

Yes, I joke about any male in my life being a HUGE baby when they get sick compared to all the women I know that have jobs and kids and still function when they have pneumonia because you just have to do what you have to do. Am I a huge baby sometimes...yes, but when I get that sick I want my mom taking care of me. Not my dad, not my brothers, and not my husband...their bedside manner is lacking. I also joke about how my husband never helps with dinner or cooks...pasta (just boiling noodles) is about as crazy creative he gets in the kitchen, but I have to say he does clean up most of the time, and he does way more laundry than I do.

I think it is also easy to fall into talking negatively about people because it has a tendency to suck you in and perpetuate itself. Maybe start a conversation about one thing you LIKE about your partner and you can shift the discussion. It only takes one person to show up differently to change the flow.

The whole 'men do this' and 'women do that' negative-talk thing bothers me. My husband and I are going on 10 years married soon and this is just some of the stuff I've noticed about the married people around us.

I think some people get it into their heads about marriage 'it should be this way or that way' and they don't even bother to discuss it ahead of time. Then they get married, stuff doesn't go the way they think it should and then here comes the gender-bashing and the 'wish I was single' comments.

I think the biggest thing people don't realize is that marriage is not supposed to be a state of active war between two people, not even a seething cold one. It's supposed to be a partnership where you back each other up, be good to each other, don't disrespect each other in public, put each other first.

I think too when problems occur some people get and tend to stay really bitter and get so hung up on 'well you did this and you did that' and they're just so ready to walk away emotionally and not forgive.

Celebrian wrote:


I think some people get it into their heads about marriage 'it should be this way or that way' and they don't even bother to discuss it ahead of time. Then they get married, stuff doesn't go the way they think it should and then here comes the gender-bashing and the 'wish I was single' comments.

This, this, a million times this.

I have an unusual relationship, one that requires negotiation and honesty and constant discussion. And I am ok with and aware of that because I have chosen to take part in a non-traditional relationship.

But I think that alot of folks who end up in monogamous marriages think that because monogamy has been the most common relationship model of the last many, many years, that they don't need to discuss, negotiate or open up about the expectations and disappointments. Monogamy doesn't preclude you from talking about what you want out of your relationship, and what you expect of your partner. It doesn't work on it's own, each partner has to contribute.

Erin.
::righteous babe::

Feminism has a lot to answer for. Cosmopolitan has a lot to answer for.

I don't really see that feminism is the cause of gender/spouse bashing. Sounds more like the misinterpretation of feminism (as indiscrimminate man-hating) to me. Cosmo, yes, eww.

I think a lot of it has to do with the ease with which we can objectify a group we don't belong to. I as a woman have no real hold on how men experience things subjectively (although I doubt there's significant difference), so it's somewhat harder for me to stay aware of their subjectivity if I'm regarding them as a group. I wouldn't claim "all women think/do x" because as a part of that group, I'm well aware of all the diversity contained therein. It'd be a lot easier to say that "all men do y" because I can't vouch for their experience. Ahh, the human condition..

I think it's mainly just immaturity that accounts for all the whining. Lack of communication too, but if the parties involved were adult and self-responsible enough to use it they wouldn't be sitting there blabbing. I'm not married and far from it, but it's just simple, common discretion not to spread hurtful gossip about anybody, whether friend or SO. It's just kind of sad to see though, because you really have to doubt whether anybody in those relationships is or has been very happy.

The truth is, a lot of people give up freedoms and dreams to live withing the unspoken rules of a relationship. And sometimes we don't realize what we've given up and it comes out as resentment, even when, if we were conscious of what we sacrificed for the good of the relationship, we would agree it was a good thing and well worth giving up.

I think most of this is just venting and I think the people who do this husband-bashing are the same ones who talk negatively about their parents, siblings, neighbors, etc. They are trying to be funny. It can be a form of bonding too - look what we have in common - stoopid husbands!
It is easy to fall into that frame of mind when you're around it. And we've had some great examples on TV of the buffoon husband and the smart controlling wife. Compare the world of "I Love Lucy" to "Home Improvement" or "King of Queens".
In 50 years we've gone from one extreme of women being supressed to women being the boss of the relationship. We'll swing back toward the middle as the next generation of men and women get used to seeing Dad do the laundry and dishes and Mom working late.

When I listen to women complaining about their husbands, what I really hear is them berating themselves for expecting so little from their partner.

Man bashing is totally different from a good, healthy vent. I vent to girlfriends about all kinds of stuff, my hubby's irritating little ways being one. Venting is getting it out; express not repress, ladies. Man-bashing, however, is a way for women to feel like they are taking back the power they are giving away. Yeah, that sounds pretty woo, I'll try to put it in normal people words. Man-bashing comes from women having low expectations of men. When I hear women man-bashing, what I really hear is them berating themselves and their chosen helplessness to change the situation. It's automatically assuming the victim role, the "oh look what I put up with at the hands of my useless, lazy man." (I'm not referring to domestic violence situations. There are a lot more things at play in those situations.)

A few years ago there was a commercial for a new truck, the tag line being "Gets more done than most husbands." I found it ridiculous and insulting to both men and women. Crap like that may appear funny, but it plays right into the "I'm a victim of biology" mentality. It's time women as a whole stopped expecting so little from the other gender, and began seeing men as worthy of full respect and responsibility. It's time for women to own up to the role we play in passively allowing ourselves to get "trapped" in situations we don't like. And it's time men stopped using reduced expectations and stereotypes to get away with certain behaviors. Having said that, I am very aware that many women and men don't perpetuate this pattern, and have healthy/respectful relationships and interactions.

I don't get it either. If I ever say something like a sterotype about men I'm just joking and it's clear that I'm joking. And if something bothers me about my BF I never say it around other people unless it's a really good friend and I need to vent. Which with my BF there really isn't much that I ever need to vent about.

Now a girl I went to high school with always dissed her boyfriend. He went to a different school, but in class and with the other students in our school she would make fun of him and say "Oh, who cares about him?" yes, in a jokingly way, but she was ALWAYS saying things like that.

After being in a really rubbish awful relationship I really hate it when people make remarks about how they can and can't do stuff. I really couldn't when I was married, he had that much control over me that I just couldn't see a way out, my life was on eggshells all the time.
I'm single now and I wouldn't give up my freedom again, but I would go in another relationship and I would get married again despite how bad it was the first time.

I think people just want to find a common ground and all have something to talk about and if 'men' are the common enemy then it works....next week it could be diets or something else.

Well I am guilty of doing what you all seem to not like.

I am a feminist. No problem admitting that. And I think the only reason I say it, is just to even up the score.
I'm a musician, therefore spend alot of my day around men in a male dominated enviroment. I am just FED UP with hearing men, women-bashing all day everyday ("they do this, they do that"), talking about us like we're just sexual objects only here for mens pleasure and ammusment that I just do it to let them know they are not so perfect themselves and they make as many problems as women do.
I do it around my girlfirnds just to let off some steam and I guess to console myself, that I'm not the only woman who is sick of hearing it.
I guess you could say I am as bad as the men are, but I dont know how else to vent my annoyence. If anyone has any ideas I would indeed love to hear them!

I have a boyfriend of nearly 10 months who is VERY macho and 'I am man, I make money. You are woman, you make bread' and I dearly love him to peices, I really do, but even he, when he is around his friends, does things like joke about rape etc.. when he knows I don't like it, then trys to justify it by saying "I'm only joking" But it really does upset me and he knows that!

So I guess I man bash just to even things up...

Oh, great idea. Let's tackle misogyny with misandry. What happened to taking the high road?

Erin.
::righteous babe::

I never claimed to be tackling it. I just said it made me feel better about it.....

Actually I dont even think that's possible

ocean_rox, you need to sit your boyfriend down and communicate rather than just "even things out," and get some new friends (because surprise, all men don't talk about women like that).

I appriciate the advice!!!

It's not enjoyable feeling the way I do about it. I wish I didn't! But no other female I know of stands up and defends us, they just take it. That's not the way to deal with it either i think!