Poll: Arts / Debates

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Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 01:33 PM
Moved to Debates by oz_helen (35388) on 2011-01-02 17:45:09 moved to correct board


Are you pro or anti gun. What are your reasons for your choice?

226 Replies to Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.

re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 01:36 PM
For me, I believe that anyone over the age of 18 should be allowed to buy guns and carry them. I personally believe that crime rates would go down if crooks knew that some people might be armed. I believe that crooks are already breaking laws in the first place, so even if there is a law banning guns, they wouldn't listen to it. They will be able to get guns on the black market.
If I have a gun and I knew how to use it properly, I think there would be less of a chance for me to get mugged, murdered, raped, or kidnapped.
For me, a gun is just an object that is neutral. It isn't "bad" or "good". The PERSON behind the gun is what is bad or good.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By fayeex
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 02:21 PM
I am against.
I think this will give criminals excuses and a easy way out.
if we were all allowed guns to protect ourselvs then whats stopping a criminal saying they were protecting themselvs which is why they shot the person?
the gun could be dangerous to carry around as something in your bag could knock it or anything.
personally i just dont like the idea of knowing many people around you have guns and not knowing if its for protection or not.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 02:48 PM
110% pro Second Amendment.

if we were all allowed guns to protect ourselvs then whats stopping a criminal saying they were protecting themselvs which is why they shot the person?

Guns are legal in the US and this has never been a problem.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By ChristinePremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 02:59 PM
I have huge issues with the irresponsible handling of firearms but I have to go with the US Constitution on this one.

To deny the citizens of any nation the right to protect themselves from any individual or group which may wish to do them harm is like saying no one can own a car because they are sometimes driven by drunk drivers or used as getaway vehicles in bank robberies.

I might also add, that where I live, wild animals are still a threat. Until you've seen a bear helping herself to the contents of your refrigerator, don't be so quick to dismiss the need for protection to a time gone by.

Keep On Dancing*
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 03:12 PM
if we were all allowed guns to protect ourselvs then whats stopping a criminal saying they were protecting themselvs which is why they shot the person?
But when you enact gun laws, only the law-abiding citizens will get rid of their firearms. That means the criminals will be the only ones who own guns. That's just silly reasoning.

the gun could be dangerous to carry around as something in your bag could knock it or anything.
I love it when people pull stuff straight out of their butt. This does not happen. And the fact that you would even say something so blatantly ridiculous really tells me you have no idea what you're talking about.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By pondflyPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 03:15 PM
All for owning them and for concealed or open carry.
18 and over to purchase, any age for use with parental supervision.

Any gun restrictions only make it easier for the criminals to act out. Come to Chicago and really see how well gun control did for this dump of a city.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 03:25 PM
I think it would also be really interesting to see which country each person is from,

For the record, no one should be putting a gun into a bag with other stuff mixed up with it. You should be able to get to your gun within a few seconds. You shouldn't have to dig through makeup, tampons, waterbottles, books etc to get to it.

That being said Fayee, I think you did bring up some good points that a lot of people against guns wonder about.I'm glad you brought them up, so we could discuss them.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By PureTapPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 03:59 PM
I'm all for gun control and we adopted it here in Australia about 14 years ago now. Most crimes now committed, such as burglary, involve a knife rather than a gun where, at least you have to be at reasonably close quarters and there is a 'human factor' involved in killing someone, rather than a remote factor. I haven't heard of too many drive-by knifings in Australia.

In 1996, Australia brought in the new Gun Laws, which were:-


* banning military style automatic and semi-automatic firearms
* limiting the availability of non-military style semi-automatic rifles and shotguns to primary producers, professional vermin exterminators, and a limited class of clay target firearm users
* introducing registration for all firearms, including long arms
* grouping firearms into 5 broad licensing categories
* requiring all licence applicants to establish a genuine reason for firearms ownership
* requiring all licence applicants other than those applying for category A firearms to establish that they have a special need for the particular category of firearm
* requiring that permits be acquired for every new firearm purchase, with the issue of a permit to be subject to a waiting period of at least 28 days to enable appropriate checks to be made
* stricter storage requirements for all firearms
* requiring all sales to be conducted by or through licensed firearms dealers.


At the same time, they also brought in the National Gun Buyback Scheme, where you could take your firearm into a Police Station and you would be paid money for handing it in. My husband did this with the two rifles that he owned.

We can still go to a gun club or pistol range, if we have the desire to shoot at targets (and trust me, being ex-Army Reserve and a country girl, I really enjoy target shooting), but we can't just keep one in the house, which is no great loss to either of us.

Whilst gun crime in Australia is not non-existent, it has definitely been reduced because of these laws (and yes, I researched it on Government sites before I replied, and can quote if asked). Yes there will always be the guns owned by the larger criminal factions, but the majority of petty criminals in Australia (gas station robbers, house burglars, etc) which make up the majority of the crime statistics, don't have access to these times of weapons, so there are a lot fewer deaths as a result of these petty criminal actions either on behalf of the criminal or the defender.

We have some of the most dangerous creatures in the world in Australia - particularly snake wise - but people have learned to leave snakes alone and call a professional Snake Catcher rather than getting out the .22 bolt action rifle and blowing the bejesus out of it. Much friendlier ecologically.

We also have a lot less suicides by firearm nowdays also - itÂ’s much easier to resuscitate someone who hasn't got a 9" wound in their head.

Just to show that Gun Reform can work if the majority of people in the country want it to work. Some would say we tend to roll over and display our bellies for scratching a little bit too easily in Australia, but I personally feel a lot safer for it.

Cheers
Di
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 1)
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 04:25 PM
^That may be true in Australia, but it's not true here. If guns were made illegal, criminals would still have an enormous black market to purchase guns. Even today when guns are legal, criminals usually get their guns on the "secondary" market so they don't have to register them.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By PureTapPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 04:43 PM
Yep, I definitely agree - unfortunately it's gone way too far in the USA to be able to reform.

We were lucky here because gun ownership hadn't gotten out of control (used in the literal sense, as in non-controllable) and we don't have any borders that we share with anyone so importing illegally is a lot more difficult to do.

Much as I'd love to visit the USA, there's a bit of me that will be worried when I go over there because of the perceived threat of firearms, which is a shame.

On the other side of the coin, I work in an area where I have had a lot of contact with USA Citizens over here, and all have said how much safer they feel while they are in Australia. Then, in the next breath, say how they can't believe that we let the Government take our right to bear arms recreationally away from us. I usually gently point out that that's probably one of the reasons they do feel safer here and they acknowledge I probably have a point... :?
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By pokomember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 04:56 PM
Totally against.

Everything PureTap said, and as well I am from Australia.

I don't know anyone here who is PRO-Guns. I would not feel safe at all walking down a street knowing someone is legally allowed a firearm on their person...Its far too easy for someone to steal a weapon and use it for harm, kids could get hold of it....I jus don't see any good reason to need a gun. I think the only people who should be entrusted with them are police and those who serve in the military and even then, only have access to them while on duty.

The only "gun" related crimes that mostly happen are in the drug and underground scene in some of the major cities...the rest are mostly knife related.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By oz_helenmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 05:05 PM
Hardened crims are always going to be able to find a way to access guns, however, making them harder to acquire means that children are less likely to get their hands on them and injure themselves or others. It also means that crimes of passion are less likely to occur: if there's no gun around when someone comes home to find their partner in bed with somebody else, then there won't be a shooting death of the partner or their illicit partner.

There is more to crime than just gang violence and home invasions.

Helen
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Wicked_Elphabamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 05:39 PM
I don't know anyone here who is PRO-Guns. I would not feel safe at all walking down a street knowing someone is legally allowed a firearm on their person...Its far too easy for someone to steal a weapon and use it for harm, kids could get hold of it....I jus don't see any good reason to need a gun. I think the only people who should be entrusted with them are police and those who serve in the military and even then, only have access to them while on duty.


If someone is concealed carrying, you CANNOT tell. My ex concealed carry, it made me feel safer while in public. I wish I could conceal carry in the People's Republic of Illinois, but we can't due to the idiotic Chicago governors. Otherwise, I would. I'm a very big believer in the right to keep and bear arms. As soon as I get the money, I will join the NRA. While my ex was carrying (concealed) while we were in public, you COULD NOT tell. I even forgot, but remembered if I put my arm around him and felt it. You never saw a bulge in his shirt or anything. He had a hip holster that went on the inside of his pants. He also wore loose flowing shirts. So, a child getting ahold of it is an argument for the lefty nut jobs to take away one of our constitutional amendments. If you have a child and a gun in the house, that is what they make safes and locks for. I grew up with a gun in the house. I KNEW NOT TO TOUCH IT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. It was also up high to where I couldn't reach it. I also believe in teaching firearm safety at a young age. My version of firearm safety from my parents? "You don't touch daddy's gun under ANY circumstances, it can kill you if you don't use it right". Sure enough, there were never any accidental shootings in our house.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By reel_faerie85member has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 05:39 PM
I'm pro gun as I believe that there are people out there who own guns for the right reasons. I am also pro licences for guns, including air rifles. I believe the UK law has nearly got it right.

However I don't assume that any laws of any sorts will stop guns falling into the wrong hands, neither will they stop people using guns for the wrong reasons.

I've had an air rifle held to my head by my ex. He also had a shot gun (licenced as per UK law) but it didn't stop him threatening to go get it and blow my brains out. Thankfully he changed his mind. The police however did revoke his licence...fat load of good that is though, as the guns are stored at his parent's house and he has full access to them.

I keep an air rifle just in case the loser dares to pull any stunts again.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 06:19 PM
Edited by jazz_lover (99333) on 2011-01-02 18:25:15
I think I feel SAFER knowing that citizens are carrying. A good example would probably be something similar to the Virginia Tech Massacre. Yes, a gun did indeed kill 32 people and wounded 25 others at this Massacre. All it could have taken was one armed student who could have shot the bastard when he pulled a gun on everyone. While one gun DID get in the wrong hands, another one could have saved over 32 lives.

I can't speak for all states, but Sueng-Hu Cho ( the killer) could NOT have gotten a carry permit in the state of California. I highly doubt that he had a legal carry permit in his state. He was not under the right mental state to even own gun, but he did. Here is an example of a gun falling into the wrong hands. There are always going to be criminals who get ahold of guns. Knowing this fact, I indeed feel SAFER knowing that citizens might be carrying;citizens that could have shot Sueng-Hu Cho before he killed so many people.


"It also means that crimes of passion are less likely to occur: if there's no gun around when someone comes home to find their partner in bed with somebody else, then there won't be a shooting death of the partner or their illicit partner."

I understand where you are coming from, but I disagree with you. It isn't that hard to reach for a baseball bat, knife, wire, frying pan, shattering a glass object over the partners head. The gun is just a neutral object that someone uses to kill. If it isn't a gun, they WOULD find another object to kill someone with.

As for kids , I think you should parent your child about gun safety. I held my first gun at the age of 6 ( Unloaded of course! ) and my dad told me to NEVER touch it because it could kill people. Unless your kid is a retard, I am sure that they should get the jist of gun safety. If your child is a retard, I understand arguments for not keeping a gun in the house.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By PogMoGilliesmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 06:45 PM
While I personally don't feel comfortable with guns, my husband owns two. Before our baby is born, there will be trigger locks on the guns, and the keys and ammo will be kept in a safe. it is families who don't take basic precautions who have tragedies happen with children too young to understand gun safety.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By PureTapPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 06:49 PM
I understand where you are coming from, but I disagree with you. It isn't that hard to reach for a baseball bat, knife, wire, frying pan, shattering a glass object over the partners head. The gun is just a neutral object that someone uses to kill. If it isn't a gun, they WOULD find another object to kill someone with.


Ah yes, but it only takes one bullet to kill a person quickly if shot in many different areas of the body but, with all the other methods that you mention, there is a certain amount of force required to carry them out and more likelihood of a person being savable afterwards. How many times have people thought "I could kill X if I had a gun right now" but regretted it a few minutes later - at least with the other methods, there is a chance for reflection or an 'Oh my god, what have I done, call 911!' That's the way I see it.

Also, I'm genuinely curious - not just at Jazzy, but also with others also - why do you feel safer walking around with a gun, concealed or otherwise? Could it be perhaps because you know other people are walking around with a concealed weapon and this is just perpetuating it all?

We have Restricted Gun Laws here and I have never once felt like I would have been safer walking around with a concealed weapon because there is no need for it because I know there is a very, very slim chance that anyone else has one.

Also, because of our restrictions, there is a very high unlikelihood that the kid that Jazzy mentions would have had the opportunity to find a rifle/pistol in the first place - we have more than our share of angsty downtrodden teenagers over here, but don't ever have any mass shootings in schools, so something must be working right.

Now, I'm not saying that USA is reformable because it clearly isn't, but I feel really sad for you guys because it has gone so overboard in your country. How awful that an otherwise peaceful group of people feel the need to pack iron in order to feel safe. I really don't mean to sound patronising when I sound that (but realising it probably does, sorry) but it's genuinely a feeling of loss for your country.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By amarathPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 06:52 PM
I love it when people pull stuff straight out of their butt. This does not happen. And the fact that you would even say something so blatantly ridiculous really tells me you have no idea what you're talking about.


What are you talking about, Panic? That totally happens. Last Christmas break, I was at this restaurant here in Houston (Skeeter's near West U, if you're interested, which I think you're not, but for any Houstonians in the thread), and this cop apparently forgets where he has his gun, sits down, and the gun goes off, ricocheting up near where the cashiers are. Everyone flips out for a moment, and then the poor cop who probably only wanted to eat his burger in peace got to spend his lunch break calling up other cops so that the incident could get taken down. Long and kind of useless story, but the fact remains that people do idiotic things all the time with guns, like this presumably trained cop, who knocked the safety off his gun and let it go.

As far as guns go, I'm totally cool with people who like shooting clay pigeons or real pigeons or deer or things like that. To me, those are normal uses for guns. I generally find people who own guns for self-protection to be on the nuttier side of things. I have more fear of monsters under my bed than I do of home invasions or getting mugged.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By SaraTheGrouchmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 06:59 PM
I am 200% pro-guns.

It's not the law abiding gun owners who commit crimes, it's the people who illegally possess them. Most crimes are committed with unregistered or stolen firearms. And did yall know that murder is the least common violent crime? But yes, murder by shooting is the most common method of murder. I'm not going to cite official stats because I'm feeling lazy right now, but that's the gist of it.

But either way, people don't shoot people, crazy people who aren't law abiding citizens to begin with, shoot people. And any smart gun owner with half a brain who keeps their guns in a house with children know to a) properly store them, b) teach their kids about the guns from a very early age. That includes don't beepin' touch them, but also how to safely handle them.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 07:02 PM
Edited by jazz_lover (99333) on 2011-01-02 19:11:26
Puretap, I think that I feel safer knowing people are carrying because if a criminal pulls out a gun, the likelyhood of them being stopped by a citizen is greater if everyone was armed. If I could personally carry, I would feel much safer. This has to do with the fact that I am a 125 pound female with not very much muscle on me. I would not be able to outrun a 250 pound guy who is trying to physically hurt me. If I had a gun, I would be able to theoretically defend myself in a condition like this.

"I generally find people who own guns for self-protection to be on the nuttier side of things. I have more fear of monsters under my bed than I do of home invasions or getting mugged."

Amartha, you may say that, but hopefully you will never be put into a position where you wish you had a gun. You may personally never been in a position like this but home invasions/muggings happen on a daily basis in my area. My guy goes to several calls a day that involves things similar to this.
I honestly find it a bit nutty that you WOULDN'T want a weapon to protect yourself. I don't understand the theory of making it easier for criminals to take advantage of you.

Oh and btw, the cop you mentioned amartha, is an idiot. WTF is he doing with a fing gun in his back pocket? Holy crap! Oh and he sounds like a rookie, people who are armed do NOT forget they have guns. You have to take a whole different attitude when carrying, and this poor cop probably isn't used to carrying guns or something.



Edit
Puretap, I think the part of the reason is exactly what you mentioned. I KNOW that there are people carrying guns illegally so I feel better knowing I had an offense. Of course if NO ONE had guns in America, it would be a moot point. Unfortunately we share our borders so the likelihood of a black market for guns is much higher.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Wicked_Elphabamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 07:32 PM
Edited by Dancing_EMT (115664) on 2011-01-02 19:34:34
Also, I'm genuinely curious - not just at Jazzy, but also with others also - why do you feel safer walking around with a gun, concealed or otherwise? Could it be perhaps because you know other people are walking around with a concealed weapon and this is just perpetuating it all?


Because when I lived in Florida, where it was legal to carry, some of my favorite stores were in the hood. I've ran calls in said hood and i've seen a 13 year old with a gun. So yeah, someone wants to mug or rape me? He'll have acute lead poisoning and i'd feel no remorse.

Ah yes, but it only takes one bullet to kill a person quickly if shot in many different areas of the body but, with all the other methods that you mention, there is a certain amount of force required to carry them out and more likelihood of a person being savable afterwards.


Not necessarily. One hit with a baseball bat can give someone a lethal head injury, you don't even need to swing that hard. A single hit with a knife can slice someone's carotid artery and they bleed to death in 3 minutes, if that. It takes 33 lbs of force to crush someone's trachea. If their neck is not cut open by a doctor or paramedic within 6 minutes, they die. I've only had 1 lethal shooting call. I can't tell you how many other types of calls i've had where someone was assaulted and ended up with a lethal head injury.

Here is a video I got from my boyfriend that also sums up my feelings on the issue. vimeo.com . . .
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By imadanseurPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 09:04 PM
its far too easy for someone to steal a weapon and use it for harm, kids could get hold of it..


I grew up in a state that was a farming/hunting state. My brothers shot guns at the age of 12 and took fire arms safety. I don't think I had a single friend that didn't have parents that owned guns and I don't know any situation in 21 years of living there where a kid got a hold of one or stole one. There is such a thing as responsible use of firearms.

My exboyfriend was a private investigator and he always carried his weapon in an open carry holster. He'd been carrying ever since he lived on a ranch at the age of 14. We live in the 5th largest city and nobody ever tried to steal his gun...lol but that's funny that people conjure up such fairytales.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 1)
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 09:39 PM
I feel safer knowing that U.S. citizens can carry firearms the same way I feel safer walking down a dark street at night while carrying mace. If I walk to my car in the parking lot empty-handed, I feel vulnerable - there's no way for me to protect myself if something goes wrong. When I walk carrying my pepper spray, I'm just as cautious, but I know I can protect myself if need be. I'd feel even safer if I carried concealed.

I live in NJ, a state with fairly strict gun laws, and I have a friend who got a gun for free when he bought his car. Unlicensed and extremely skeazy. You can get a gun anywhere if you know the right people.

I think all the gun hatred is silly - England, Australia, and so on have the same kind of problems - just with knives. And if they outlawed knives, it'd just be the next thing. Crime will happen no matter what.


Honestly, when I watch my cop shows, or truTV programs like Most Shocking Videos or whatever, I'm always struck by how useless the cops seem in other countries where they can't carry guns. They have no leverage, they just deal out empty threats and try to smack the criminals around with their nightsticks. For instance, there was this one clip of a kidnapping in a Hispanic country (I wanted to say Brazil, but guns are legal there, so search me). The man was holding a knife to the victims' throat, and there was nothing police could do. They wrestled with him, batted him around, but that was about it. The victim got away by grabbing his knife and basically saved herself. If this took place in the US, a sharpshooter would be able to take out the criminal - I've seen clips where the weapon is shot out of the criminal's hand. (Yes, there's other ways of doing it, I'm not saying this particular scenario would have been saved by armed police, I'm just saying seeing that video clip is what really impressed that point on me.)

I wouldn't feel safe if our police weren't armed just as heavily as the criminals are.

In America the premise for our firearms ownership is if the government oversteps its bounds, we would be able to fight back. We are able to protect ourselves not only from other citizens, but from the government itself. Hence why we're very skeptical any infringement on that right. We are the ultimate check on the government's power.

Foreigners, what do you think about that? If only the military is armed, what happens if a coup takes place? If they have all the force, who has a check on that power?
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By PureTapPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:01 PM
Hi Heart

In Australia, our police are armed, they just only use them in absolute emergencies. Some are now starting to carry tazers as well for those times when you want to take someone out but not potentially kill them. Our police force is trained to use unarmed combat or tazers as a first defence, and pistols in emergencies only.

What would happen if we had an armed coup? Probably not going to happen here as a surprise because not enough people carry arms to gather together an armed coup. We also have a well enough paid military force here, both full time and reservists, that we could combat any armed coup within a short period of time. Fortunately our country is not in an unstable enough condition, at this point in time, for this to happen though.

Cheers
Di
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