Poll: Arts / Debates

Page:
Page 2 of 10: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:10 PM
Were there a coup, it would be the military overtaking the government. Most coups come from factions within the existing state.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By angelfish10member has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:12 PM
I'm okay with the idea of other people owning guns, but I would never buy one for myself. It is commonly said that you should never point a gun at someone unless you are fully prepared to take their life. I can't see myself feeling that way. Not unless Osama Bin Laden himself was walking down my street, but in all likelihood that's not going to happen. I'm all about self defense, which is where things like mace come into play. If I ever find myself frequenting less savory areas of town I will go out and buy myself some. I just don't want to kill anyone.

The main problem I see with people carrying weapons is that it can cause arguments and fights to escalate very quickly. What would have been a relatively harmless bar brawl can end up with one or more people gravely wounded or dead. This isn't enough of a reason for me to support a wholesale ban on handguns, but it is a case against every Tom, Dick, and Harry carrying a loaded gun with them everywhere they go.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Wicked_Elphabamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:21 PM
Edited by Dancing_EMT (115664) on 2011-01-02 22:22:47
In Australia, our police are armed, they just only use them in absolute emergencies


Uhhhhh....Cops in the US don't shoot people for pleasure. They shoot when someone is pointing a weapon at them. They have tazers for when people are resisting to the extreme.

Our police force is trained to use unarmed combat or tazers as a first defence, and pistols in emergencies only.


That's the way it works here too.

Don't know if any of you remember the story from earlier this year, but Dante Morris was pulled over by 1 officer down in Tampa due to having a non-visible tag or something like that. Routine traffic stop right? The officer felt something wasn't quite right so he called for back-up. 2 officers were shot and KILLED in the Line of Duty. The suspect had an ILLEGAL gun. Law abiding citizens do not buy guns illegally and shoot cops. No, law abiding citizens are responsible with their firearms and use them for home/self defense. Non-law abiding citizens are irresponsible with their illegally bought firearms. See a pattern here? All line of duty deaths I have heard of that involve firearms were carried out by an illegally obtained firearm. All you guys against guns.....Do y'all see a pattern?! Banning firearms INCREASES the problem. Kinda like banning abortion. Abortion is illegal in Ireland, women in Ireland travel over to England for their abortions. It's the same concept. If you ban guns, people DO find a way to obtain them!
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:21 PM
^I disagree. I think people would be LESS likely to start a fight if they didn't know whether the other guy was carrying a gun.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By PureTapPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:12 PM
Edited by oz_helen (35388) on 2011-01-04 22:20:48 Fixed your markup code.
Whoops, sorry Heart, I thought a coup was just an civil uprising - must look up definitions more.

Military Coup - not going to happen here in Australia. I'm a civilian with the Department of Defence, and have a husband in the armed forces, that I would probably know about it anyway. Our military are paid quite generously here, as well as great benefits such as cheap rent on housing, free dental and medical and our Politicians are so placid for the most part, that it aint going to happen in my lifetime (as much as Julia Gillard's voice annoys the absolute heck out me!)


Uhhhhh....Cops in the US don't shoot people for pleasure. They shoot when someone is pointing a weapon at them. They have tazers for when people are resisting to the extreme.

Our police force is trained to use unarmed combat or tazers as a first defence, and pistols in emergencies only.

That's the way it works here too.


Sorry, I wasn't implying anything otherwise, I was just replying to Heart saying that our police force was so ineffectual because they don't carry firearms when, in fact, they do - they just don't use them, or have to use them, very often.

Non-law abiding citizens are irresponsible with their illegally bought firearms. See a pattern here? All line of duty deaths I have heard of that involve firearms were carried out by an illegally obtained firearm. All you guys against guns.....Do y'all see a pattern?!


I think you're referring to USA people here, but if not, that's what I'm trying to counteract about Australia. We don't have those sorts of incidents anyway, because it would be so bloody difficult to get an underground firearm of any sort in Australia, that people don't even bother.

I'm not saying that we're gun-crime free, but we're certainly pretty low down in the statistics for the most part.

Anyhoo, enough banging on about how much I love my Country, I'll bow out and give this back over to the USA citizens because obviously it's more applicable to you guys than us - I was just trying to demonstrate more than it can be done, and has been done, reasonably effectively in a non-US setting.

Cheers
Di
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By pondflyPremium member
On Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:38 PM
I've been watching this from the sidelines for a while to see the direction before chiming in. As you saw in my previous post I said that I am for it and also for carrying of weapons in public.

Before my injury I was an Arson Investigator, Tactical medic and other work for the government which I can't disclose due to security reasons. I hope to return sometime later this year, but not holding my hopes up.

Contrary to popular belief, most law enforcement agencies are underpowered in comparison to the population that would use lethal violence against others. Agencies are finally getting AR-15 rifles when a lot of gangs prefer the use of an AK-47 which the round is nearly twice as large and uses much more powder to propel it. The body armor that is worn by most officers offers nearly no protection to that kind of round.

US law enforcement agencies are only allowed to use deadly force as an absolute last resort. The reports, documentation, interviews, board reviews and other things that must be completed when a round has been fired even if nobody has been hit are crazy. Lets not even talk about the mental anguish that the officer has when they take a life (That is not taught in the academy).

As it was previously mentioned so well, the Second Amendment – Militia (United States), Sovereign state, Right to keep and bear arms.
A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed

In 2008 and 2010, the Supreme Court issued two Second Amendment decisions. In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.
Additionally, the Court enumerated several longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on firearms possession that it found were consistent with the Second Amendment. In McDonald v. Chicago (2010), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits state and local governmental authority to the same extent that it limits federal authority.

I own several firearms and plan on purchasing several more in the next year, including a nice purple anodized one for my GF. But before I get her one she will undergo approved firearms training like nearly all firearm owners do.
Some of my firearms are unlocked in my house and others are locked in my safe for secure storage. When my nephew comes over to visit, the first thing I do is to unload and lock my firearm(s) until he has left.

Most legal firearm owners are very polite, well educated and have gone through at least one safety class of how to properly handle firearms. EVERY firearm that is sold has the 10 tips to properly handling the firearm included with the weapon and is also provided by the selling agency.

Now as for concealed or open carry. I'm not going to pull the exact statistics, but feel free to dig them up if you so desire. The states or areas that permit the legal carrying of firearms the violent crime rate is lower compared to other states that do not permit. Anyone who has a concealed carry permit must take a class in order to obtain a permit and is always checked before purchasing another or if they have been convicted of a felony or in some cases lesser crimes.

Personally, I feel better knowing that if I get caught into a position where I needed additional help and an armed citizen came up to offer assistance I'd take them up on that offer until I was able to get back up or restrain the subject.

If someone is hellbent on obtaining a firearm, they will from either a person legally purchasing and ILLEGALLY transferring it to a person who is not allowed or they will obtain it from the black market.

I feel better that I can protect my house and it's occupants from anyone who is perceived to be a threat.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 1)
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:03 AM
as much as Julia Gillard's voice annoys the absolute heck out me!
Her voice is fine (I mean, Australian accents are annoying but what can you do?) but her HAIR is inexcusable. When you are prime minister of a MAJOR economic power, you shouldn't get your hair color from the grocery store. I'm just sayin.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Kekoamember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:16 AM
Eh, I'd prefer that nobody had guns, but alas...they're out there. I support the right to legal gun ownership, but I do think there need to be strict laws in place and I think that people convicted of violent crimes should never be allowed to own a gun. However, if your average Joe neighbor who runs the local bank wants a gun? Sure. Like everyone else, I'm more worried about the black market guns, but I don't think that's a reason to make obtaining a gun legally some sort of free-for-all. I'd never own a gun, but it's a right listed in our constitution and I think that (within reason) it's a right that law abiding, responsible citizens should be able to keep.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By AussieLauramember has saluted, click to view salute photos
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:41 AM
I'm with PureTap 100%

I don't see the "need" to have a gun for self defense myself, I would never shoot someone. The only need I see for a gun is for a farmer, same as the knife rules being enforced in Australia.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Cadbury_Eatermember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 05:50 AM
I'm also another Aussie, and I absolutely support our gun control. In fact, I think our gun control is one of only three positive things John Howard did in his long term as prime minister.

I absolutely don't understand the mentality of that it's safer for everyone to have guns to protect themselves. That means there are more guns out there, more possibility of accidents or falling into to the wrong people's hands. I think that many people with firearms would not be well trained. Young people should not be trained to use firearms. They can be impulsive and could easily shoot someone in a moment of anger.

I think Australia's gun control laws positive effect of low gun violence. We have nowhere near the percentage of gun violence as US. I don't see how you can look at your statistics of shootings and armed robberies and say the gun laws are good as they are.

Although, kudos to all the Americans knowing who Julia Guillard is. Many people think we have a president and the country's capital is Sydney.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By SaraTheGrouchmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 08:23 AM
For the Osama referencers out there...
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Brittanymember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 08:58 AM
My dad has a shotgun beside his bed - purchased legally and there for any reason that it needs to be used.

I'm very pro-gun. I don't know how to use a gun so I don't but I would someday like to learn just so I can feel secure. Too many people have guns from the black market (I know some of them) and there's too much crime in the world. I rather feel like I am protected and if someone breaks into my house they aren't going to get too far.

I'm also pro-responsible gun use. Prior to purchasing a gun people should have to be able to prove that they actually know what they are doing. And people that do stupid things like point a gun at their face and accidentally fire it and end up dead are idiots and should not reflect poorly on the people that actually use guns in a responsible manner.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By d4jmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 09:26 AM
I don't own a gun but I'd like to know that if I wanted to keep one in my home for protection that I could. Though I personally think that having a dog is more of a deterrent to a burglar. If I had to train a gun on someone that means that they are already TOO CLOSE and should have been stopped prior to getting to that point.

I don't understand how it does anyone any good to keep a gun in a house if you have to have it unloaded in one room and the bullets locked up in another. I guess if the very polite burglar makes an appointment with you so that you have time to get prepared then it would work...

My father-in-law was murdered with a gun. A psycho from his office went postal and sprayed bullets into a restaurant and injured and killed many people. Would gun laws have prevented this nutjob from getting a gun? I don't know the answer to that, this happened in 1976 and I don't know the details of how he got the gun in the first place.

As a result of what happened to his father, my husband is seriously anti-gun and would love to see laws like in Australia. And then I've got my dad, who is the most pro-gun person on the planet. (It's a lovely dynamic to be in between the two of them!) My dad has guns all over his house. He accidentally discharged one once when he was showing it to someone and he shot the floor. That scared the crap out of me and made me question if guns were for everyone. I always though my dad knew what he was doing!

Anyway, ultimately I'm on the side of self-protection. You do what you gotta do in this world.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 2)
By pondflyPremium member
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 09:59 AM
I support the right to legal gun ownership, but I do think there need to be strict laws in place and I think that people convicted of violent crimes should never be allowed to own a gun.


All persons are run through the ATF database, anyone with a felony conviction are not allowed to purchase firearms. Some states also have higher restrictions like aggravated domestic violence.

I think that many people with firearms would not be well trained.

Every person who purchases a firearm are given a pamphlet of the safe gun handling tips, every person is also strongly encouraged to take a firearms safety class (some cities require it) and most classes are completely free.

Young people should not be trained to use firearms

Why would you not want a child to be educated on a firearm? They grow up playing with toy guns and seeing them on TV when they come across one. Wouldn't you rather the child be educated on that it is a dangerous thing, don't touch it and get a grown-up?
Children are also encouraged to go out to a range and hunting to learn proper, safe handling of firearms and also as a bonding between family members.

I don't see how you can look at your statistics of shootings and armed robberies and say the gun laws are good as they are.

Most robberies are not done with firearms, they are usually a toy or some other object hidden to make it look like it was a gun- Check FBI statistics for further information.

I don't see the "need" to have a gun for self defense myself, I would never shoot someone

While I respect and support your decision, what would you do if you were forced into a situation where if you don't do something you will die? Do you just lie down and resolve yourself to death, or would you rather end that situation now? Even worse, you get killed, while having the availability to kill or injure a person but don't and then they continue to attack other persons, how would you feel?

Not unless Osama Bin Laden himself was walking down my street

Personally I wouldn't shoot him, I have better things in mind for that person. I'm thinking of a private tour of him visiting every police, fire, and military institution and charging a fee to give one punch to him with the benefits going to the fallen family funds.

What would have been a relatively harmless bar brawl can end up with one or more people gravely wounded or dead.

States that permit carrying of firearms the businesses are allowed to forbid them from being brought in (they have stickers at the front door).

Lastly, a lot of people believe that the firearm is the end all for situations, it is not. Self defense and close quarters combat, less than lethal devices (taser, rubber pellets, OC spray), knives and other items that can be used as a defensive or offensive tactic.
Drawing of a firearm is the last tactic used when placed in a life threatening situation and most times when the firearm is aimed on the offenders they will comply with the orders, whether it is a police officer or John Q citizen with it.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 2)
By Meganmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:39 AM
When I compare the US's rate of gun violence compared to my own country's, I cannot see how anyone could possibly not be in favour of gun control. The per capita rate is astonishingly higher, and no matter what you all say about "it's the illegal ones, not the legal ones" the matter still stands that in my country (where it's obviously the illegal ones too) we have SO MUCH less gun violence, accidental deaths, etc etc etc.

I live in a house with guns. My roommate is former Army and he has several legal guns, which he uses every few months or so when his military buddies go for target practice. He keeps them carefully locked up (unloaded) and with the ammunition stored separately and also locked. Despite all this, I'd be happier if they weren't in my house. I'd never even seen a gun in real life until we moved in together (except the ones strapped to German cops when I was living there), and that was just fine with me. Tons of my friends have never seen a real gun either.

I'd never be able to shoot someone, even if my life were in danger. I couldn't do it. And I never want to own something that's sole function is to kill things. In the robbery scenario, quite frankly I'd rather give up my stuff than shoot someone.

pondfly wrote:

Why would you not want a child to be educated on a firearm? They grow up playing with toy guns and seeing them on TV when they come across one. Wouldn't you rather the child be educated on that it is a dangerous thing, don't touch it and get a grown-up?
Children are also encouraged to go out to a range and hunting to learn proper, safe handling of firearms and also as a bonding between family members.


Whatever happened to board games and family vacations as "bonding"? Also, I was certainly told as a child about guns and saw pictures etc- I knew what a gun was and not to touch one without having to have one in front of me. That argument holds no water whatsoever. I never needed to learn to handle one because there were none around me.

pondfly wrote:

Most robberies are not done with firearms, they are usually a toy or some other object hidden to make it look like it was a gun- Check FBI statistics for further information.

Be that as it may, the statistics for actual ARMED robbery are still so much higher than in countries with stricter gun control.

Bottom line is, having guns more accessible legally HAS resulted in a society in which gun crime is much higher than elsewhere in the developed world with stricter laws. There is no way around that fact. Now that the box has been opened, it's too late and you law-abiding citizens think you need them for "protection", but if criminals hadn't been able to get hold of them so easily in the first place you wouldn't need that "protection." Maybe it's too late now and you all do need the horrible things to feel safe, but it makes me so sad that it's come to that in your country. I'm very glad to live somewhere where I can feel safe without having a gun beside my bed.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 1)
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:10 AM
When I compare the US's rate of gun violence compared to my own country's, I cannot see how anyone could possibly not be in favour of gun control.
That's faulty reasoning.

from cato institute www.cato.org . . .
In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel "have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States."


And most importantly...
A comparison of crime rates within Europe reveals no correlation between access to guns and crime.
Please do not mistake correlation with causation. Anyway, y'all can have my guns whenever you're brave enough to walk into my house and get them. And FYI, my guns are NOT locked up. They are loaded and easily accessible.

Oh and one more thing... If you wouldn't shoot someone, then you absolutely should NOT own a firearm for protection. They don't work as a deterrent unless you're willing to use them. Personally, if someone is crawling in my window in the middle of the night, I'm shooting the sucker. I have no problem defending myself and my family.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By rosalinde
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:59 AM
Edited by rosalinde (213002) on 2011-01-03 12:04:16 spelling ... bleh ...
I'm against, but that's probably because over here it's so hard to come by one unless you're in law enforcement or a member of a shooting club (or whatever they're called). I've never held a gun, and only saw one in real life (as in, not in the holster of a policeman) when we made an illegal U-turn on a highway in New York state when I was on vacation there. The highway patrol guy came up with his gun out and I was about to freak -- I'd always thought they only did that in the movies! :P

Anyway, I work as a teacher and I'm sure some of my students have access to weapons (can't deny the obvious), but I think it is safer in the streets knowing that it's illegal to carry a gun. Sure, I could be wounded or injured with a knife or something like that, but not from across the street; and I'm less likely to die as an innocent bystander if there's not a gun involved, I think. After all, with a knife they'd have to come within arms length -- you can't very well knife someone from a car in a drive-by killing, can you? Or go into a school and kill a dozen people in the blink of an eye.

As for the second amendment (that's the one, right? I apologise if I have the wrong numeral): didn't that apply to the time when the Wild West was still Wild? I mean, when highway men were still prowling the forests of Europe, it was entirely legal to bear arms around here (unless you were a peasant in which case you were screwed -- gotta love a class society ...), but when those guys disappeared, the weapon-laws were changed, too. Wouldn't it be funny/silly if we were still legally allowed to carry swords and daggers because once upon a time we used to need those (although not anymore)?

It's a tough vote, since it depends on what you were raised to perceive as normal. If your parents kept loaded guns and told you it was the only way to guard the family, you're unlikely to grow up thinking 'Mmm, I wonder if they're wrong actually.' I was raised to believe that guns are the reason people use them (as in: when you don't have a gun, you won't use a gun), in a country that makes fun of the US and their gunlaws -- so I will never think of guns as adding to any feeling of safety (see the highway patrol scene above ...).
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:25 PM
I think it is safer in the streets knowing that it's illegal to carry a gun
OMG look at the link I posted. Not true. This isn't a matter of opinion - we can compare countries who allow guns vs countries who don't.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 2)
By ChristinePremium member
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 02:48 PM
I know this is a hot issue, but I can't help but wonder why people want to believe that if someone wants to murder another, they need a gun, and if guns are prohibited, murder will be avoided.

The September 11th terrorists used BOX CUTTERS. We just had a minister arrested for beating his wife severely, then putting her in a car an faking an automobile accident. And, apparently, he did this to his first wife years ago and got away with it until the second homicide. Poison? Knives? Arson? When evil people are intent on evil, a LAW isn't going to prevent them from perpetrating their crime. It's still illegal to assault or murder, does a law stop the assailant? NO!

Although the second amendment to the US Constitution guarantees the rights of citizens to bear arms, there are still intelligent controls on their purchase. Convicted felons and those with a history of mental illness or violence can not own a gun. When you apply for a pistol permit you need to be investigated by the local sheriff department and you must provide two references who are not relatives and have lived in the state for a certain period of time (varies from place to place). Guns have serial numbers and if used in to commit a crime can be traced to the original purchaser.

In states like mine (PA) you must have a license to hunt and although shotguns do not require a permit, you must take a gun safety course in order to obtain a hunting license. Before the budget cuts of recent years, the high schools included gun safety as part of their health education classes. Parents are lectured about locks and storage of firearms at their toddler's well child check ups. America is not the "Wild, Wild, West" of the movies. Good firearms safety includes a healthy respect for the proper care and handling of guns. It just makes good sense to make sure people know more about them than they see on television.

If people are against owning firearms, they don't have to. It isn't as if having guns legally available makes them mandatory.
However, I believe (and this is clearly just my opinion) that refusing education about the proper respect and handling of guns is as naive as denying sex education to teenagers and preaching, "Just Say No."

Keep On Dancing*
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 03:00 PM
Military Coup - not going to happen here in Australia. I'm a civilian with the Department of Defence, and have a husband in the armed forces, that I would probably know about it anyway. Our military are paid quite generously here, as well as great benefits such as cheap rent on housing, free dental and medical and our Politicians are so placid for the most part, that it aint going to happen in my lifetime (as much as Julia Gillard's voice annoys the absolute heck out me!)

Dude, this is a debate. You can't use "It wouldn't happen here!" as a defense. It could happen, it has happened in other countries, and it will happen again. So, let's try again: Assuming a crisis hits Australia and throws the government in crisis - a rash of wildfires, an economic decline. A military coup is attempted, but only the military has weapons. What happens?



As for the second amendment (that's the one, right? I apologise if I have the wrong numeral): didn't that apply to the time when the Wild West was still Wild? I mean, when highway men were still prowling the forests of Europe, it was entirely legal to bear arms around here (unless you were a peasant in which case you were screwed -- gotta love a class society ...), but when those guys disappeared, the weapon-laws were changed, too. Wouldn't it be funny/silly if we were still legally allowed to carry swords and daggers because once upon a time we used to need those (although not anymore)?

The Second Amendment applies at all times. As a part of the Bill of Rights, it was written in 1789 and went into effect in 1791. Its phrasing is as follows:

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The argument is that this phrasing states that the right of the people to keep and bear arms is contingent upon their participation in a well-regulated militia. Militias do still exist, but clearly are not that necessary anymore. However, the original text of the amendment when it appeared on the Congressional floor was,"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country; but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person." This leaves no doubt of the intention of the Freamers, and, while I don't tend towards originalism, documents from that time period leave no doubt as to the Framer's reasoning for allowing firearms ownership: it is a check against the power of the military.

America has a fundamentally different philosophy than the Commonwealth Realms: our power is invested in the people, not the government. Don't interpret that as I'm saying you're not democracies, because you are. But the power of your government, in its political philosophy, comes from the Queen, and that small distinction makes a big difference. Americans, as rebellious traitors, are in a sense the cynics of the political world. We don't trust our government. We rebelled before and we would again. That's what's up.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 1)
By imadanseurPremium member
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 05:13 PM
Some of you have no documentation or facts to back up your inane opinions.

The parts of the US where guns are most common are generally the least dangerous. There is no proven correlation between gun ownership and armed crime rates in the United States.

Prof. John R. Lott, Jr. reviewed the FBI's massive yearly crime statistics for all 3054 U.S. counties over 18 years (1977-1994), the largest national survey on gun ownership and state police documentation in illegal gun use. His survey revealed that between 25-75 lives are saved by a gun for every life lost to a gun. Medical costs saved by guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens are 15 times greater than costs incurred by criminal uses of firearms. Guns also prevent injuries to good people and protect billions of dollars of property every year. He also found that children 14 to 15 years of age were found to be 14.5 times more likely to die from automobile injuries, 5 times more likely to die from drowning or fire and burns, and 3 times more likely to die from bicycle accidents than they are to die from gun accidents. When concealed carry gun laws went into effect in a given county, murders fell by 8 percent, rapes by 5 percent, and aggravated assaults by 7 percent.

I have grown up around guns all my life and I don't know anyone who isn't a responsible gun owner. The media's sensationalization of crime in the United States does not give an accurate picture of gun ownership in America.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By OkinawaDancing
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:21 PM
Edited by OkinawaDancing (223602) on 2011-01-03 23:27:12
As a perspective. I have lived in the Greater Boston area and am currently in Japan. I am anti-gun.

When I lived in the US (and still following news nowadays because that is where my family is) the amount of gun related situations were too much for me to be comfortable with. It was not uncommon to hear of drive by shootings or just like a recent case someone hidden shooting at a school bus. And those are just the reported actual ill intent situations regarding guns.

Now I can understand why people are pro gun. Obviously with the amount of guns that are out there you want to protect yourself and I get that. However, with less guns out there there becomes less need to protect yourself from them. In japan there are very strict gun laws. "No-one shall possess a fire-arm or fire-arms or a sword or swords". There are very few exceptions and very lengthy processes to obtain the proper documentation to fit within those exceptions. Even the police do not carry firearms. For this reason Japan has the least number of gun related deaths in the world. The USA has one of the highest numbers of gun related deaths. This does not mean that you will never hear of anything gun related in japan but the number of situations are very low.

Long story short I feel safer in Japan than in the US because I know that there are no guns and although I know that other household items (for example) can be used as weapons I have yet to think of one that offers a long range quick road to injury and potential death as a gun. I have walked through the biggest cities in japan even at night alone feeling completely safe (being on my guard of course) but not feeling that I might get shot by someone driving by. Surely this is opinion based but if you look at the numbers it's based on fact as well.

As far as the US. I feel that if they want to stay true to the constitution they can do so but also having gun laws that are a bit more strict in place in order not to only protect the rights of those who would like to own a gun but protect those who don't. The fact is (as someone mentioned) tempers can get out of hand and it is all too easy to pull out a gun and react. The number of potential situations like this ought to be reduced such as NOT allowing people to carry guns in bars (I am sorry I can not remember the state that allows this off the top of my head) or other similar areas of concern. This is just one situation for example but I am sure if you were to evaluate the laws throughout all the states you would find others.

At the end of the day I personally am anti gun because I have seen what it can do for a country and seen how much better off people seem to be but I respect the opinions of others in the US who feel they are necessary to feel safe because yes in the US with the gun situation the way it is (which I would consider out of control) how else do you defend yourself? If it were up to me, however, some evaluating should be done.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By pondflyPremium member
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:31 PM
Whatever happened to board games and family vacations as "bonding"? Also, I was certainly told as a child about guns and saw pictures etc- I knew what a gun was and not to touch one without having to have one in front of me. That argument holds no water whatsoever. I never needed to learn to handle one because there were none around me.


Please don't take my comments out of context I mean no harm in what I'm about to say.

So you're willing to deny educating your child about firearm safety and how not to touch them because you don't have one? That is a very unsafe and naive answer.

What about your child coming across a firearm that was dropped by a criminal fleeing from the police or even worse your child going to a friends house where they own a firearm?
Children need to know what they are, that they are dangerous and to get an adult right away without touching it.

You can't coddle your child in a protective shield until they become 18 or never move out of the basement because they are too busy playing Warcraft. A child is a child and has normal curiosity, which at times can be dangerous.

We teach our children to never touch the stove, oven, electrical devices, not to put metal things in the outlets (can be fun to watch though), sex, etc. but you don't want to spend 5 minutes to just tell a child to not touch a gun and to alert an adult right away? Shame....
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:35 PM
Please see the link I posted. Dear sweet Chris on a cracker!! Gun control laws do not reduce violent crime. We know this already. It's not a matter of opinion. READ MY FRICKIN LINK!
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Meganmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:19 AM
Edited by Megan (87282) on 2011-01-04 00:28:42
Edited by Megan (87282) on 2011-01-04 00:29:46
Edited by Megan (87282) on 2011-01-04 00:30:10
Edited by Megan (87282) on 2011-01-04 00:30:52
Edited by Megan (87282) on 2011-01-04 00:34:57
Edited by Megan (87282) on 2011-01-04 00:37:14
Megan wrote:

Also, I was certainly told as a child about guns and saw pictures etc- I knew what a gun was and not to touch one without having to have one in front of me.


Pondfly wrote:

but you don't want to spend 5 minutes to just tell a child to not touch a gun and to alert an adult right away? Shame....


Pondfly, I don't think you read what I said at all. I said that I WAS taught that guns were dangerous and not to touch them. I wasn't taught HOW to touch them because it was one of those things (like needles, or knives...) that I knew NEVER to pick up under any circumstances. I wouldn't show my child how to pick up a dirty needle just in case they decided to disobey me and grab one in the park, and it would be the same for a gun found in a friend's home or whatever (although, with our relatively strict gun laws here, the chances of that are incredibly small.)

Teaching them not to touch them is a hell of a lot safer than teaching them how to handle them, in my opinion.

The point I'm trying to make is that while in the US, you might very well need the things, but we don't need them or want them for the general public up here. Our crime rates are already lower and our gun violence rates are low, so why on earth would we want to change that? I read Chris's link and I fully understand that correlation is not the same as causation, but it is a fact that my country is a safer place to live than yours. We have less than a third of the firearm-related deaths per capita than you, and that is a fact according to "Firearm-related deaths in the United States and 35 other high- and upper-middle-income countries" in the International Journal of Epidemiology. Peer reviewed and everything. Includes the accidental as well.

Here's another chart illustrating that, for better or worse, we've got a lot fewer deaths involving firearms:

www.allcountries.org . . .

I don't know why this is up for dispute when the statistics are available widely and it's clear that we DO have fewer problems with this. Please don't call my opinions "inane" when there are tons of stats showing precisely what I've said, Renae. Just because in the USA more guns have lowered rates doesn't mean they're not a ton higher than elsewhere with stricter laws.
Page:
Page 2 of 10: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

ReplySendWatch

Powered by XP Experience Server.
Copyright ©1999-2021 XP.COM, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
XL
LG
MD
SM
XS
XL
LG
MD
SM
XS