Poll: Arts / Debates

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re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By PureTapPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:21 AM
Chris - No, so there, suck it up Princess... :P :)

Dude, this is a debate. You can't use "It wouldn't happen here!" as a defense. It could happen, it has happened in other countries, and it will happen again. So, let's try again: Assuming a crisis hits Australia and throws the government in crisis - a rash of wildfires, an economic decline. A military coup is attempted, but only the military has weapons. What happens?


Well I can, Heart, since this isn't a debate about what would happen if a military coup happened in Australia, but about whether I'm Pro-Gun or Anti-Gun, which I think I've covered pretty well, don't you?

But, because you are so insistent, I'll also point you to my previous post where I said that all of our police do carry firearms (Glocks, I believe), as do our farmers, our pest exterminators, sporting shooters and gun and pistol clubs - just not the great unwashed public unless they really want to and proven that they have a need for one and have jumped through all the necessary hoops.

I'm sure if there was a military uprising, there'd be enough police to defend the politicians if necessary.

What Crisis would happen are you talking about here that would start this off, pray tell? We already get multiple cyclones over here on a yearly basis, currently half of Queensland is in flood, previously Victoria has been devastated by fire, the majority of the country has just come out of a 10 year drought, and we've managed to avoid the GFC because our politicians put enough things in to place to stop us feeling the full brunt of it and we came out of it a hell of a lot better than the USA. Our country, our Military and our Politicians pull together in times of crisis, not start in-fighting. I'd ask that you research a bit about Australia and put a believable situation to me where our politicians are likely to fall apart and the Defence Force takes over.

You may need to also research our Government System and see that we aren't a single Head of Government system with a President, we have multiple Federal Ministers who make up our Federal System (because Julia Gillard is really only a figure head and representative of the party) so that, if all our multiple policians went to hell in a handbasket, then people would probably accept the Military taking over the Government. I know I'd rather it was the military, than some whacked out nut job with a legally owned AR-15 that he'd purchased from a gas station 24 hours previously. :?

See what I mean? Too many variables to play a 'What If' game on the Debates Board about a fictional situation.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By OkinawaDancing
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:22 AM
Edited by OkinawaDancing (223602) on 2011-01-04 00:26:28
panic wrote:

Please see the link I posted. Dear sweet Chris on a cracker!! Gun control laws do not reduce violent crime. We know this already. It's not a matter of opinion. READ MY FRICKIN LINK!


No gun control laws do not reduce violent crime but in countries where there are very strict gun control laws or full out banning of guns all together you are much less likely to be in a situation where you are up against a gun and therefore defenseless. I would much rather take my chances with a person who needs to attach at close range than a shooter.

PONDFLY-
I just had to add I 100% agree. I may personally prefer a place without guns but if you are in a place where they are accessible as they are in the US I think that it's very important to educate your children. You never know what they may encounter and so you need to ensure they are familiar with what to do if in a situation as such. With that said I also agree that before a certain age children should not be taught how to handle (clean, prepare, shoot) firearms. Of course this is purely opinion.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By rosalinde
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 03:35 AM
Panic: do you even care if people disagree with you? I mean, I was trying to be careful with the way I verbalised my feelings, and that I FEEL safer without people toting guns all around me (even if I might be wrong in feeling so). But apparently my feelings are all wrong ... :C I think it really depends on the sources one quotes, I'm sure I could find links to sites that back my opinion up, but I seriously doubt whether anyone pro-gun really wants to see that ...

I'm outta here now, I might get shot ...
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By imadanseurPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 07:47 AM
^^YOU may feel safer, but that doesn't make the world you live in safer, nor does it change the statistics.

Megan, you just posted stats from 1997 (which means most the stats are usually from 5 years before) and in the description it gave all the information about how the stats could be completely incorrect due to sources not having accurate and comprehensive measurements or differing methods of compilation. Police record-keeping methodologies often differed from country to country (e.g. some counted numbers of victims, others counted numbers of incidents) and for that reason were difficult to compare at the international level.

So really, if that is your evidence, I think you need to look elsewhere.

How about these statistics, and they are from 2009 courtesy of the UN. The UK is not as safe as some of you make it out to be...
wheelgun.blogspot.com . . .

The total violent crime rate per 1000 inhabitants is listed as 23, which is equivalent to 2300 per 100,000 inhabitants in the UK. This number is an astonishing figure when compared to the US datards.homeoffice.gov.uk . . .

According to the FBI report of 2005 (Uniform Crime Report) the violent crime rate per 100,000 inhabitants was 469.2 in the United States. The following is based on 100,000


State Crime Murder

South Dakota 175.7 2.3
California 526.3 6.9
New York 445.8 4.5
Massachusetts 456.9 2.7
Wisconsin 241.5 3.5
Illinois * 551 6.0
District of Columbia 1459.0 35.4
* Illinois doesn't like to present data to the FBI for inclusion in the Uniform Crime Report. So it is hard to know if the figures for Illinois are low or high. (And yes I know, D.C. is not a state.)

The UK numbers make Washington, D.C. look good.

This is also from 2006:

* New York has a population of 8 million, London 7 million
* London's crime rate is about 7 times that of New York
* Police budgets are comparable
* New York has 40% more cops on the beat

spectator.org . . .



Pondfly, I don't think you read what I said at all. I said that I WAS taught that guns were dangerous and not to touch them. I wasn't taught HOW to touch them because it was one of those things (like needles, or knives...) that I knew NEVER to pick up under any circumstances. I wouldn't show my child how to pick up a dirty needle just in case they decided to disobey me and grab one in the park, and it would be the same for a gun found in a friend's home or whatever (although, with our relatively strict gun laws here, the chances of that are incredibly small.)


So because someone could use a knife to harm someone I shouldn't teach my child the proper way to use one in the kitchen? What about scissors...should I ban those from the house as well? LOL, I have grown up with guns for 36 years. All of my friends have guns and have kids. Nobody has kids walking over to another house and picking up guns lying around. You are arguing something that you have no experience with and know nothing about. You have not been in the States to witness responsible gun ownership or see it. You say guns are bad and evil...um they aren't. Neither is a sword, knife, or baseball bat, but they can all be used inappropriately.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:01 AM
but it is a fact that my country is a safer place to live than yours.
Your country is not safer than Israel or Switzerland where everyone owns guns. Theory disproved.

But apparently my feelings are all wrong ...
Honey, as far as legislation goes, I don't care about your feelings. Show me facts. This is exactly why women make terrible politicians. They can't tell the difference between fact and (completely unfounded) opinion.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:23 AM
" I know I'd rather it was the military, than some whacked out nut job with a legally owned AR-15 that he'd purchased from a gas station 24 hours previously."


I have a question for everyone living out of the United States. Where/How do you think we get to legally buy guns? Please do this without research of google, and just tell me your opinions on how Americans get to legally own guns? I am curious as to what you guys are taught in the media about guns.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 2)
By Meganmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:03 AM
Edited by Megan (87282) on 2011-01-04 11:05:43
But Chris, my country is still sure as heck safer than the US. I've already said that gun ownership obviously isn't the only factor, but I believe it plays a part. Israel and Switzerland are not noticeably similar to the US except in that one aspect. It's obviously more complicated than gun laws, but I highly, highly doubt that Canada would become even safer if gun control laws were relaxed. Our culture is was too similar to yours for that.

Renae, that particular link was older but I also mentioned another study that was not, and many more exist. I posted that link because it was the only one that was publicly accessible, but when using my university databases, which are unfortunately limited to students, I came up with tons of info. I'm also not from the UK, but from Canada.

imadanseur wrote:

So because someone could use a knife to harm someone I shouldn't teach my child the proper way to use one in the kitchen? What about scissors...should I ban those from the house as well? LOL, I have grown up with guns for 36 years. All of my friends have guns and have kids. Nobody has kids walking over to another house and picking up guns lying around. You are arguing something that you have no experience with and know nothing about. You have not been in the States to witness responsible gun ownership or see it. You say guns are bad and evil...um they aren't. Neither is a sword, knife, or baseball bat, but they can all be used inappropriately.


You know perfectly well I'm not talking about kitchen knives and scissors when I say things like that. I was referring to pondfly's example of finding a gun in the street- which you definitely would not want to pick that up, obviously. A knife, scissors, a baseball bat...all of those things have other functions besides killing things which a gun does not. You don't play softball with a gun or do crafts with a gun. Also, I'm not sure that you read my post earlier, but I mentioned that I live in a house with a gun currently, as my roommate owns several legally. So yes, I do know how responsible gun ownership is carried out. His are locked up unloaded and separately from his ammo which is also locked up. Even so, I still wish they weren't around, and our friend who owns our house almost didn't let us move in because of the stupid things.

I'm not a parent but I'm also not an idiot and I'm perfectly aware that you need to teach kids about dangerous things. However, I'm lucky enough to live somewhere where guns aren't something a kid is likely to encounter day-to-day. When my roommate has kids, he'll show them the guns and explain about their danger and that they're locked up and never, ever to touch them, because he'll have to because he has them. I feel like implying that I wouldn't want to teach kids about the danger of guns when they are a part of the kids' world is just insulting my intelligence. All I'm saying is that for kids who don't live around guns, it's not necessary to show them one to explain that they're dangerous.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:23 AM
Edited by jazz_lover (99333) on 2011-01-04 11:27:04 type
Megan, you said " Even so, I still wish they weren't around, and our friend who owns our house almost didn't let us move in because of the stupid things."

WHY don't you wish to be around a gun that is locked up and the ammo put away? Are you afraid of your housemate getting crazy and shooting you or something? I assume it is because you never grew up with guns in your house. Guns were taboo and you were taught to fear the gun. I assume you also have never held a gun when you were little.

Here is my own personally theory about raising kids.
I don't want my children to be afraid of the gun. I want them to be cautious of the gun, and I want them to know the damage that could be done with a gun. I want them to learn RESPECT for the gun. I also don't want them to grow up to be gun fearing adults. There may be a time in their adult life where they are put in a situation where they HAVE to handle a gun and know how to shoot properly. I will have my children hold UNLOADED guns so they don't have a unreasonable fear of it. Megan, I believe that you have a unreasonable fear of the gun, because you never handled one as a child.
I think that in your country, there has never been a reason for you to handle a gun because of the gun control laws. If my child lives in the USA, he WILL handle unloaded guns as a child.
Plus, I believe that it takes away the curiosity of the mysterious object that they can never touch, and only "big boys and girls" can touch. There are so many children toys on the market that have to do with guns. I think this sends mixed messages to younger kids, and you really have to explain the difference between play and real. I think a heavy gun in their hands will verify the real/play thing.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:26 AM
But Chris, my country is still sure as heck safer than the US. I've already said that gun ownership obviously isn't the only factor, but I believe it plays a part.
Based on WHAT? Are y'all seriously in favor of enacting laws based on your hunch? Even when there is evidence to the contrary? And when you all admit that you have no experience with firearms? Seriously?
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Anon1234567890member has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:32 AM
Edited by Louise (29559) on 2011-01-04 11:35:45
I'm in Britain and "the media" doesn't "teach" me how Americans buy guns???

As far as I'm aware, and I couldn't tell you where this comes from, this is what might happen depending on location:

Scenario A: Person goes into gun shop with ID - is allowed to buy gun.
Scenario B: Person goes into shop with ID and gun licence - is allowed to buy gun.
Scenario C: Person goes into shop with ID and gun licence - chooses gun, has to wait several days before being allowed to take shiny new gun home.

I don't see that it really matters whether people from non-US countries know how Americans buy guns or not, though? I don't even know how one would go about buying a gun in my own country because it has never occurred to me nor interested me.

Just wondering, to the "awww poor England/other countries that aren't allowed guns, woe is them" posters - do you really think we'd be better off suddenly being allowed to own guns after previously having a culture of not being allowed to own them? D'ya not think it would cause a lot of problems if suddenly the floodgates were opened? It hasn't been a topic of debate in parliament in our country for quite some time. Nobody visible is campaigning for the law here to be changed. I think it's fine the way it is, but the thread in general is a classic example of people not recognising that we're not all American here.

I'm inferring that Panic thinks only people who have held/shot/sniffed a gun are the only ones allowed an opinion on this. I hope that's just me being a silly female who can't tell opinion from fact, because that's a slippery slope to go down. I've held a replica, woo, go me. Still allowed an opinion.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:35 AM
Edited by jazz_lover (99333) on 2011-01-04 11:38:57 Editted to add answer to Louise comment
For the record, guns don't just go off by themselves. You have to turn the safety off and put a finger on the trigger.
There are cases where a child gets ahold of a gun and shoots themselves. This is how I think the scenario goes.

They come across an object that mom and dad told them never to hold. Mom and dad aren't in the house right now, so they better take a look at it before mom and dad come back. ( Think of a girl getting into her moms forbidden makeup). Most likely this child has never been taught what the safety is, what the trigger is, what happens when you pull the trigger. The most gun education they had was " Don't play with the gun". Children are curious things by nature and mom/dads aren't always perfect. There may be a lapse in the parents judgement and they forget to lock the gun up.
Even better yet, it may not even be the child's parents. They may go to a sleepover where the friends parents have a gun. Children shouldn't be taught to fear the gun, they should be taught caution and respect for an object that can cause a lot of harm.


People who said they would never shoot someone. If your life was in danger, does that mean you value the criminals life more then your own? I mean, you are basically sacrificing your own life for the criminal trying to kill you.

Louise, I think it matters because you non americans make it sound like you can buy a gun from a gas station! If you are going to be debating a topic, at least know the topic of debate; guns. I have a feeling some of the people on this thread believe that you can just go pay cash for a gun and go home with it. They probably think people go around carrying guns in their purse and shooting someone whenever they fear someone. Also driveby's rarely happen to "regular" people. At least in my area, they happen to GANGS, who probably own the gun ILLEGALLY in the first place.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By AlwaysOnStagePremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:39 AM
This is exactly why women make terrible politicians.


What a wonderful little delight this is... I've been here for years and I still don't know how to tell if you're joking or inflammatory. :?


I don't know too much about guns, to be honest, because I avoid them at all costs. However, I think owning and operating a gun should be similar to owning and operating a car (which should be more restricted, but that is another debate entirely). Certain physical requirements need to be met, mental requirements, with re-tests every so often to make sure the standards are still being met. There should also be required classes (just like there is for driving) which includes shooting it safely, cleaning, and storage.

For example, a mentally stable and physically healthy father who wants a gun to protect his family is more than okay if he gets or has the knowledge to operate and carry a firearm safely. My grandfather who doesn't have enough strength to lift a fire arm and doesn't have the mental stability anymore to control his anger (to keep him from shooting someone in a simple disagreement) and doesn't have the eyesight to aim should NOT have a firearm.

Simply, somewhere between "Everyone have guns" and "No one have guns" is a safe meeting of the best of both. As long as owners are checked out to be safe mentally and physically, I don't see a reason for it to be illegal. I would choose not to have one, myself, but that doesn't mean I want to deprive others from that choice.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Anon1234567890member has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:47 AM
"You non Americans"? Um, okay. a) no they don't b) d'ya wanna not lump us all in together please and c) don't even include me in that because my previous post was the first response on the whole thread. Even if we did think you could pick up a gun and put it on the conveyor next to your grapes and ketchup, does it matter? Someone's incorrect perception doesn't make it so, does it? One of "you Americans" on DDN once told me that people in Britain have to check under their car every time they go out in case there was an IRA bomb under there - um, no, but his ignorance of how things are didn't make a blind bit of difference to how things actually are. That's why I thought it was a pointless question, in addition to just being weird (media teaching us?)

Also, I think guns ARE to be feared. They are specifically designed to kill and injure. Most things that are dangerous, are dangerous as a side effect to their actual purpose. e.g. a knife is intended to cut food BUT can also be used to stab. A brick is designed to form a building but could easily be thrown at someone's head. Gun? One purpose. One big fat scary purpose. If someone is pointing a gun at me then it is the gun I am fearing - yes it needs to be operated by someone but it could do me a hell of a lot more damage than they could on their own. I'm not going to be sitting there respecting it, I'm going to be there s&%$#ng a brick.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:49 AM
www.kc3.com . . .

Here are my personally favorites.

6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.

8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20.

24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.

36. Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun.

And my absolute favorite

35. Private citizens don't need a gun for self-protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:55 AM
Edited by jazz_lover (99333) on 2011-01-04 12:00:23
Louise, maybe I should have lumped you guys as "countries with gun control". Sorry about that.

" If someone is pointing a gun at me then it is the gun I am fearing - yes it needs to be operated by someone but it could do me a hell of a lot more damage than they could on their own. I'm not going to be sitting there respecting it, I'm going to be there s&%$#ng a brick."

Of course you are scared of the gun, but in reality you would also be scared of the PERSON behind the gun. You would still fear him if he had a knife I bet. Wouldn't that be an instance where you also wished you had a gun so you wouldn't be at the helpless mercy of the man holding a gun to you?

I guess I just don't understand why anyone would want to be helpless in defending themselves.

"They are specifically designed to kill and injure"
Don't forget PROTECT. Guns protect cops on a daily basis. While the cops don't shoot people on a daily basis, criminals knowing that cops have guns are less likely to pull out a gun of their own.
I used to live in Japan, the police there are pretty pathetic. They have these sticks they hit people with. Stick or gun stick or gun, guess who's gonna win the fight there.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Anon1234567890member has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:02 PM
Edited by Louise (29559) on 2011-01-04 12:08:12
^ Sigh. No, you shouldn't have lumped us at all because we don't all universally agree on guns just because our governments restrict them or because we have the same laws as someone else. Not everyone in America thinks guns should be legal (or as legal as they are) so why do you assume everyone from my country would agree?

I'm not actively wishing to be helpless - that's thoroughly ridiculous and you know it. But come ON, I've lived to the age of 25 without getting myself into a situation where I'd require a gun. Big whoop I know, but my mom has lived to the age of 50, Tim's dad has lived to the age of 65, my great-nan lived to the age of 100+, all none of them ever being in a situation where they'd've remotely benefited from having a gun. Apart from policemen and my friend who collects cash from shops, I don't know a single person who has ever been in such a dire situation. I don't even know anyone that's been burgled, touch wood. The probability of me ever needing a gun is miniscule, so why would I bother? Just seems like an unnecessary expense and risk to me. And of course as I've said above, gun ownership has always always always been restricted where I'm from. I would be more worried if we ever got to a situation where that needed to be changed. It ain't broke. We don't need to be looked down upon or pitied because we're not allowed guns.

Oh, and if I shot someone who was trying to rape me then I'd go to prison for GBH, manslaughter or murder. If the rapist survived I'd probably be sued. Same as if I shot a burglar. Google Tony Martin (farmer) if you don't believe me.

Give over. Guns were designed to protect by injuring/immobilising/killing the other party. Whoever invented the gun didn't invent it as something you brandish to ward off an aggressor. LOL. My aforementioned friend who works for a cash logistics company isn't even allowed to wear a stab vest for work because their research shows that if you're wearing a stab vest, criminals are more likely to arm themselves with guns instead. In fact that's pretty much the reason most of our police don't routinely carry guns and it's left to specialist armed units - when police have guns, criminals follow suit. I can't be arsed to find a link but that's why the average PC doesn't have one.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 1)
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:05 PM
This is exactly why women make terrible politicians. They can't tell the difference between fact and (completely unfounded) opinion.

Disgusting, even if intended jokingly. Completely uncalled for, inappropriate, and off-topic.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:08 PM
Edited by jazz_lover (99333) on 2011-01-04 12:18:50
Well of course I am not advocating that we carry guns illegally; or own a gun in a country that has gun control.

I personally do not carry a gun because I am unable to get a permit in the state of California. I would never advise someone to illegally carry a gun for their own defense.

Oh, and this is most likely why the farmer went to jails. It said

"On the night of 20 August 1999, two burglars – Brendon Fearon, 29, and Fred Barras, 16 – entered Bleak House.[2] When confronted, they attempted to flee through a window. Shooting in the dark, with an illegally held pump-action Winchester shotgun, Martin shot Fearon in the leg, and Barras in the back. Barras escaped through the window but died at the scene.[1]"

He shot at them while they were fleeing! You can't shoot to kill or injure someone, you can only shoot to stop them from harming you. If the criminals are RUNNING AWAY from you, it would be stupid to say you shot for "self defense". I have a feeling that the outcome would have been different if he shot in SELF DEFENSE and he had the legal right to own a gun.


"In Fact that's pretty much the reason most of our police don't routinely carry guns and it's left to specialist armed units - when police have guns, criminals follow suit."

Do you honestly think that criminals play fair? " Oh man, deputy Joe doesn't have a gun so I guess we can't have one either". Criminals commit CRIME, they try to overpower anything they can to get to their goal. BTW if there is a mass Shooting in your country, how quickly can Special Forces get there to protect you?
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By hummingbird
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:29 PM
All of the crime and prosecution data that people are referencing brings up another issue as well. In Europe at the moment, particularly the UK it would seem there is a tendency to not prosecute or not to punish offenders because it interferes with what has become know colloquially as their,'uman rights'

Personally I don't have a problem with gun ownership as long as people have passed some kind of idiot test.

We make people pass a test to drive a car, which is a lethal weapon in the wrong hands, but at least it wasn't designed and be a weapon in the first place, it's only human stupidity and freak accidents that make it one.

Guns on the other hand where designed right from the get go as a weapon with one end result, to kill and maim. If people can't pass a test to establish that they are in the right mind and are safe to use a gun then they shouldn't own one.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 2)
By Meganmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:33 PM
Jazzy, I'd prefer if he didn't have them in the house because they serve no purpose within the house. The way they're locked up means that they'd be of no purpose in case he needed to defend himself from someone trying to kill him (although I personally do not live in fear of being invaded and feel very safe in my home), and so they are a pointless addition to our household. I wish he could keep them somewhere else just because we don't need them and they can be dangerous. That's all. It's not because I'm not educated on them or have an unreasonable fear of them. I just don't see the point of owning them.

If you're going to have guns and children in the same home, in your example, you should NEVER FORGET to lock them up. That's not an option. There is no room for carelessness.

Don't put words in my mouth, please.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 1)
By Munkensteinmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:36 PM
Edited by Munkenstein (71404) on 2011-01-04 12:39:21 added note
Edited by Munkenstein (71404) on 2011-01-04 12:40:13 typo....added a sentence...I quit now! :P
"He shot at them while they were fleeing! You can't shoot to kill or injure someone, you can only shoot to stop them from harming you. If the criminals are RUNNING AWAY from you, it would be stupid to say you shot for "self defense". I have a feeling that the outcome would have been different if he shot in SELF DEFENSE and he had the legal right to own a gun."

Screw that noise. Granted, I don't approve of illegally owning a gun, but the other stuff? Psh. Property is sacred in the USA. One of the few good things about this state is that we are allowed to defend ourselves and our property from scum burglars. Maybe I'm a crazy, violent person, but I'm all for the "stand your ground" laws, or whatever they're called these days. If you break into my house/try to carjack me/etc, I will do whatever I can to harm you, simple as that. If somebody breaks into your house and get scared when they realize you're home/awake/armed/whatever, I fully support shooting the moron whether they come at you or try to run away. I've just got very strict opinions and beliefs on crime, heh. It's so easy to NOT be a criminal so I don't have much sympathy or anything...it would take extreme circumstances to change my mind, especially when it comes to people who steal. I do live in a pretty scummy city whose first homicide of the new year happened within an hour or so of midnight on the first...this place could use some citizens taking out some worthless thugs. ;)

On another note, I get to learn how to shoot soon and I'm super excited! :)

EDIT: I should specify said laws...we're supposed to be able to defend ourselves and our property and may use deadly force if necessary without fear of repercussions. It also means that you can use the deadly force without attempting to retreat first. It doesn't always work perfectly but I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to punch the monitor reading about an injured burglar suing the owner of a house they broke into or whatever.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:39 PM
Edited by jazz_lover (99333) on 2011-01-04 12:42:02
Edited by jazz_lover (99333) on 2011-01-04 12:44:28 Munk, now I have to edit since you edited LOL!
Megan, I understand that you see no use of them, and that is totally fine. That is a personal opinion that you chose to believe in.

My original question is WHY do you think they can be dangerous? I am trying to get to the root of your opinion, because I hear so many people say that guns are dangerous.
Unless your housemate goes into his safe, puts together the ammo, put it in the gun, takes the safety off, aims and shoots...they are of no danger to you. I am just curious where this fear of a gun being dangerous is coming from, thats all.

Munkstein, oh how I wish I lived in your state. If someone came into my home and stole a TV, I legally wouldn't be allowed to shoot them. We can't take another life unless it was to stop them. . That being said, while I can't kill someone legally, I WOULD be aiming at their chest, because that is the largest part of their body. If their heart gets in the way of the bullet, that ain't my problem ;)
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By kandykanePremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:47 PM
I'm joining in late.

Pro gun, but I have some definite concerns about safety and responsibility. Restrictions are fine with me but not an outright ban.

kk~
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 1)
By Meganmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:48 PM
Why can they be dangerous? Because their purpose is to kill people, obviously. Say some idiot friend of his gets drunk at a party and steals his keys, or he's cleaning them after going out with his buddies and someone breaks in and the gun immediately escalates the situation, or hell, the roomie gets depressed and suicidal and uses a gun because it's so easy...all of these are unlikely scenarios but they are things that wouldn't even be possible if they weren't in the house. They have no positive purpose in our home (even farfetched) and a host of negatives, although they ARE farfetched. Why would I want the things around? I can't think of a single reason other than a zombie apocalypse.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 1)
By imadanseurPremium member
On Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:48 PM
But Chris, my country is still sure as heck safer than the US.


Uh, look at my stats on violent crime in the UK vs. the US which proves otherwise. Just because you don't have guns doesn't mean you don't have violent crime and 2 studies I posted both support you have MORE of it. Maybe not with guns but it's not a "safer" country per se.

If you're going to have guns and children in the same home, in your example, you should NEVER FORGET to lock them up. That's not an option. There is no room for carelessness.


I've lived with guns all my life in a house not locked up. They weren't just laying around to play with either, but none of our hunting rifles were ever locked up, and my dad's handgun was ALWAYS in his bedroom drawer by the bed. We took a gun safety course which taught us not to point guns at people, always assume one is loaded even if it isn't, they weren't to play with etc. It's really not that complicated and hardly scary if you are exposed to it and taught that they are evil things.

My husband doesn't own a gun and doesn't want to, and wasn't exposed to them because he lived in a big city when he grew up, but he's also not opposed to them because he knows they aren't dangerous in the hands of responsible people...and I like to go out target shooting (and I am a good shot), so it's a hobby for me.

However, I'm lucky enough to live somewhere where guns aren't something a kid is likely to encounter day-to-day.


HA HA HA...you think the kids in the US are encountering guns everyday and have to make decisions on whether to touch one or not, or if they should leave it lying in the street, or if they should shoot someone with it? REALLY you cannot possibly be this naive. Yippee that you have a roommate that has a gun that doesn't make you an expert on responsible gun ownership. You live in a country that doesn't have gun laws like ours and you have never ever ever been around the United States to witness our gun laws, so how can you speak like you know which one is better?
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