Poll: Arts / Debates

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re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By d4jmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Jan 05, 2011 02:21 PM
I don't it was mentioned once in this entire thread, or even implied, that anyone thought the good ole U.S. of A was the very bestest country.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Wed Jan 05, 2011 04:53 PM
^ If anything, I was getting the impression that Canada and Britain thought they were better then the United States because they live in such a good country that they would never need the protection of the gun.

I guess things can be misinterpreted over the internet.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By imadanseurPremium member
On Wed Jan 05, 2011 05:00 PM
Edited by imadanseur (79325) on 2011-01-05 17:21:30 ..
^^Oh I am sure I must have said that that we were the best country somewhere...you know how us Americans are..."up in arms overly patriotic morons." *pulls out a tuba to play a lovely Sousa march*

I live in a safer country and therefore I don't NEED to have guns around.


And many of us are saying that we don't only have guns around to protect ourselves. I don't feel unsafe in my city at all even though I live in the 5th largest city in the United States. I've lived here 15 years and the only crime I've been victim of is a car theft by teenage kids who took my car for a joyride, and it was found 3 days later, and some stuff was stolen, but basically the car was fine, radio still there etc. I enjoy shooting. I grew up in a state that was a farming and ranching state with lots of hunters. I shot my first gun at 7, and learned about gun safety. I learned to shoot a bow and arrow and was an excellent archer. My brothers took me to shooting competitions. For some people it is also a sport and we don't see it as something bad or scary like you do, and many of us are trying to point out that there are no statistics to support a country that has no guns having no violent crime. That is really what the debate is about.

I taught a girl in Phoenix that was trying to qualify for the Olympics in shooting and had an ROTC rifle scholarship to college. My husband knows someone who trains people for biathlons that incorporate cross country skiing and shooting. I can't imagine our country not allowing such things and people shunning the sport of shooting because they are frightened of guns. It totally baffles me.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 2)
By ChristinePremium member
On Wed Jan 05, 2011 07:03 PM
Megan wrote:


I forget sometimes how up in arms a lot of American can get when it's implied or just stated that another country is better at them than something. Anything.


Wow...aside from the unintentional "up in arms" cliche being the best pun on the thread, I almost don't know where to start here.

First of all, guns are always a hot topic. That's why this is a debate.

Second, the individuals who disagree with the "anti-gun" point of view are not disagreeing because they are blindly patriotic Americans, in fact, both sides of the debate have been represented by Americans.

Third, like Canada, America is a huge country. Life in Montreal is certainly much different than life in the Yukon. Life in New York is vastly different than life in Utah. Even in the cities, or on the farms. Both states have city life and country life. So does Canada.

The issue for me, and many, is a matter of government control over personal issues, not patriotism. In fact, it is exactly the opposite. Along with the second amendment, the bill of rights addresses other basic rights of all citizens which at the moment may seem as dated to some as the right to bear arms. For example, the government may not insist that its citizens quarter troops. While the government is working well, or well enough, these things may seem trivial, but what if things took a bad turn to the right or left? This is why it is so important that the right of individuals to arm themselves needs to be preserved. Is this a ridiculous, "what if?" Well, it seemed ridiculous that war could break out on a "civilized" continent like Europe in our recent memory, but guess what?

History tells us that we should hope for the best but prepare for the worst. And frankly, if we prepare for the worst and it never happens, isn't that "safer" than hoping for the best and not having a gun when we need one?

Sadly...I'm keeping my guns and I HOPE I never have to use them for anything more than target practice.

Finally, I don't want to sound like an American zealot, but history has also shown that when other citizens of the world need someone to step up to the plate with their guns and sons, America has been there to defend those without the fire power to defend themselves.

Keep On Dancing*
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 1)
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Jan 05, 2011 09:41 PM
Edited by Heart (21721) on 2011-01-05 21:41:38
There is little I can add to topphilly’s comment [edit: lol, I guess I had a lot to add], only to say that the basic rationale behind America’s Second Amendment applies to all citizens in all countries. The right to bear arms is a check against the government. As Dancing_EMT's avatar demonstrates (albeit in a rather alarmist way), the first step in creating an authoritarian government is to remove the people’s right to own weaponry. One of the criteria in the definition of a “government” is having a monopoly on the legitimate use of force. Having a monopoly on the only way to use serious force gives the government an incredible upper hand and allows it to easily overstep its bounds of legitimacy.

I am in NO WAY saying that the governments in other countries are on their way to becoming authoritarian regimes. To even discuss such things in peacetime seems beyond ridiculous and, yes, totally offensive. However thinking about worst-case scenarios is something you MUST do when creating a government. As topphilly said, if you talked to anyone in Germany in the 1920s about what was going to happen in just a decade, they would have laughed in your face. A Bill of Rights is an insurance policy against the unthinkable.

In this debate I am reminded again and again of what Madison says in Federalist #46. In this, Madison is arguing for the ratification of the Constitution – he is arguing against the people who claim that the Constitution creates too strong of a federal government, which would then overpower the state governments and create a dictatorship. But what he says is relevant to our interests.

Here, Madison leads us through what hypothetically would happen were the American government to exceed its boundaries through excessive militaristic force:

Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. … [A standing army] would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it.

In other words, citizens bearing arms and organizing into these informal, state-controlled militias, is what caused us to be successful in our rebellion from Britian… and were other countries in Europe to have this advantage (in addition to our organization of state and local governments), the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned. That’s some heavy stuff.

THAT is why we defend our right to bear arms. Not because we are “the best and only country in the world at everything.” Because it is one of the basic rights that allows us to protect our families, homes, livelihoods, and the rest of our rights. Were the worst to happen, our ability to fight is what saves us and allows us to ensure that the rest of the rights promised to us in the Constitution.

Remember why we defected from England? “That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government.” It seems primitive, but you need guns to do that.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Rinamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:05 PM
I will probably get a gun sometime or another... to prepare for the zombie apocalypse.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Cadbury_Eatermember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:01 AM
Wow, well one problem in this thread is definitely generalization. We're generalizing about gender, lumping countries together and such. How will we ever have understanding of each other if we continue this? I will wholeheartedly say that I cannot understand the gun mentality of America (I have never been there myself), however my relatives and friends have been there and definitely prefer Australia's gun laws. However, I'm seeing a whole lot of non effort for understanding my culture and general ignorance for my country. You say I don't have experience with firearms, true, but you don't have experience living in my gun control society. Also, you guys have as much knowledge as me, most of you are just drawing on your personal experience to mainly form your opinion.

One thing about the word "gun control". It implies rules and restrictions-not a total ban. While some people here seem to think gun control is an infringement of their rights, it's actually the medium view in a way. The extreme ends of the spectrum are A:Everyone having access to guns, no regulation or B:Absolute gun ban. This is similar to the abortion debate where the extremes would be A:Noone being allowed abortions, forced to have kids or B:Everyone being forced to have abortions. I draw this example because I believe that having very limited gun control (like someone stated some states they just recommend you go to classes for guns? Most people are lazy and won't) is infringing on other people's liberties to live in a non heavy gun environment. If you really badly want a gun, you should be submitted to rigorous tests etc. just like for driving (although I know in the US it's pretty easy to get your license too). It's a right that has to be earned, not a freedom. I know you will preach the Second Amendment, but I personally always thought that Amendment was more for the military if another country tried to infringe on your independence, which you had just recently fought for. Not to have them available to shoot at each other whenever you want.

Now for the second point, I see many of you saying things like you have a loaded shotgun in your dresser table. What happens if the home intruder finds your gun and uses it on you? Is that necessarily safer? Before you say the scenario of someone coming into my house with a loaded gun, it's better odds to have it, there' such a miniscule chance they'd have a gun because they're very hard to obtain in Australia. Most people have never seen guns, except on police.With barely any guns, you are very unlikely going to be in a situation with an armed shooter. Also, in a gun free society aren't you more likely to be at mercy of a gun and to feel safe wouldn't you need it not locked up securely but loaded and on you at all times? hence, not only more people being able to shoot each other but to actual have the defence of the gun at all times, more chance of accident because they are always loaded and ready to go. What about the increased probability of randomly being shot with no time to pull out your gun? It doesn't protect you from the malicious intent as well as you think. Guns available=more people getting them which includes more nutjobs.

Now for the third point, on children and guns. Here in Australia, kids don't play with gun replica toys, there's restrictions on how "real" they toys can be. With the parenting here, of course, you'd teach your child not to play with a gun. If you can't get your kid to understand the dangers of something, you're failing. We tell our kids not to touch dangerous things here like syringes, stoves and stay away from our numerous deadly fauna...it works. When kids are super young anyway and before they can understand danger they should be under your total supervision anyway. You do not need to give the kid a gun to educate them! I almost flinched when people said they'd just give their kids guns and familiarize them and teach them to shoot as soon they were old enough. . When people grow through adolescence, they can be very impulsive and lead to things like suicide, school shootings etc. Yes, they can use a bomb or a knife, but it just makes ONE LESS thing available. Also, other than the bomb, guns are the only other one that can KILL people from a DISTANCE. And most younger kids won't know how to make a bomb. Most of the scenarios here are not applicable, it's like 0.00000001 % a kid would find a gun at a friend's house and by the age a kid is going over to another's house they would understand a gun is dangerous.

Before I'm labelled a fearer of guns. No, I'm not afraid of guns. A gun is not a threat without a person operating it. And what concerns me is the people with access to guns. Most of the scenarios and such in this thread are irrelevant to me because people do not have gun access. Gun's are dangerous because the fact is many humans are not rational enough to use them for any fit purpose. Gun's are one of the only things where the only purpose is to maim and kill. Is it really unrational to have caution or even fear with them?

I'll continue to enjoy living in Australia thanks :D Without the availability of the guns, we don't have large gun issues. Gun control has been effective in Australia, despite all you saying it is not effective. Well the govt. initiative here certainly worked.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 2)
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:21 AM
Holy crap, is that a post or a thesis? It looks fascinating, but it's entirely too long to read in depth. I did skim though, and I will add this
Now for the second point, I see many of you saying things like you have a loaded shotgun in your dresser table.
What? Shotgun in your dresser table? I don't think anyone said that because most shotguns would not fit into a bedside table. You obviously don't even know what a shotgun is. Why are you using words you don't understand? You wouldn't accept that from anyone else in any other debate, would you?
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By pondflyPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:21 AM
Edited by pondfly (218838) on 2011-01-06 00:22:33
Life in Montreal is certainly much different than life in the Yukon. Life in New York is vastly different than life in Utah. Even in the cities, or on the farms. Both states have city life and country life. So does Canada.


You should see the difference between Chicago and 20 miles west where I live which has a completely different belief than they do. Then go to central and southern IL and you'd be amazed at how much they embrace weapons into the lifestyle.

Our state is one of the hardest to obtain a firearm yet the restrictions are only put into place by the uneducated and fear mongering persons and politicians from Chicago who feel that what is good for them certainly is good for the entire state.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 1)
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:34 AM
Edited by jazz_lover (99333) on 2011-01-06 00:36:36
Edited by jazz_lover (99333) on 2011-01-06 00:50:50 WHy isn't my picture working ugh...
1 Image(s) detached by hummingbird (128773) on 2011-01-13 08:56:09 You need to salute to post photo's of yourself
A few asked me about my shooting experiences. I tried to shoot a smiley face on the target with this...I fail at shooting smiley faces. I know some shooters on this thread are cringing at my hand positioning but whatever, I just need more practice.

This is a question to all the countries where they don't have a lot of guns. I haven't done any type of google research on this, but is there game hunting in your country?


To all you shooters out there, anyone else addicted to the smell of Hoppe's? Something about that calming scent ....if only my boyfriend could wear bodywash made of it.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By OkinawaDancing
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:36 AM
I honestly think that perspective plays a large role here.

Yes, there are Americans out there who get upset when people bring up the idea that policies or ideas of another country are better than the ones in America. There are also some Americans out there who say "you know what this and it might not be the best but it works for us".

The bottom line is that America is still a new country comparatively. With that there are items that the country was founded on that the people in America are attached to. This, of course is fine. It's easy for some people to look over and say "hey this works here why can't it work there".

Likewise there are those of us who have had the chance to experience living in different places and that has given us a perspective of how gun laws can work and those who have never lived in a location with strict gun laws which gives them a perspective that they need the protection. Of course people then make decisions based on those perspectives, such as mine where I feel much safer knowing that there are no guns around BUT understand the perspective of those who want to have guns readily available in the case of an emergency.

I think that the ultimate question here pertaining to the US is how can we ensure that Americans can exercise their second amendment rights while also protecting those who do not choose to own a firearm. What I mean by this is basically adding a few across the board requirements that are available to anyone within a certain legal age (i.e. a mandatory gun ownership course that needs to be completed before you receive your license similar to drivers ed) and taking some of the stats and evaluating where there are problems (if we know that guns are a problem in houses with kids **PURELY AN EXAMPLE** and the numbers are overwhelming work to find ways to drop the number of incidence) Yes everyone has these "rights" available to them however I believe that most of us can agree that there are situations where these rights need to be evaluated a bit closer for all of our protection.

Of course there are those out there who feel that because it was in the constitution it's as simple as that and can not be disputed, which I think all of us know is not necessarily the case (criminals, mentally unstable, violent behavior and so on) and so a line needs to be drawn but it's difficult. There will always be those who feel that any type of restriction or requirement added to the policies are in some way taking away rights when if done carefully what it would do is actually ensure that rights are protected on both sides of the fence. At least that's me.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By d4jmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:36 AM
Cadbury, you said:

Most people have never seen guns, except on police.


but then you started the very next sentence with:

Also, in a gun free society


And the first thing I thought was, well, that's not a gun-free society if the police have them...
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By OkinawaDancing
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:52 AM
Edited by OkinawaDancing (223602) on 2011-01-06 00:57:32
^^I would have to agree.
jazz_lover wrote:


This is a question to all the countries where they don't have a lot of guns. I haven't done any type of google research on this, but is there game hunting in your country?


In Japan (where guns are illegal with very few exceptions) hunting is not very popular at all as it is in the US but it is still possible but with a LOT of restrictions. On top of other requirements such as a lengthy application process for a license you are also required to take a course specifically geared to hunting safety and purchase a gun that has been approved/registered by the Japanese Police department.

This is also the case when referring to shooting for sport (not sure what they call it here because you don't hear much about it) where there is a lengthy list of restrictions.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By PureTapPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 01:16 AM
I taught a girl in Phoenix that was trying to qualify for the Olympics in shooting and had an ROTC rifle scholarship to college. My husband knows someone who trains people for biathlons that incorporate cross country skiing and shooting. I can't imagine our country not allowing such things and people shunning the sport of shooting because they are frightened of guns. It totally baffles me.


Just to clear up a misconception with this one, Australia has Firearm Laws in place, but we still have sporting shooters. In fact, my husband's Uncle is a Commonwealth Games Medalist in Rapid Fire Shooting, and one of my friends from another Forum I belong to is a Olympic and Commonwealth Medallist in Prone Rifle Shooting. No one I know has anything against either of them competing in these sports, nor practising for them at their local Rifle/Pistol Clubs.

The difference is that they can't just walk around the streets toting their pistol or rifle. They keep them locked up in fixed heavy metal cabinets at their houses under lock and key, and they have separate safes to store their bolts and magazines in that must be a minimum of 10m away from the locked metal cabinets. Whilst these are not impenetrable for someone to break into if they had an plasma cutter, it would involve a lot of effort and the security guards would probably be at their house quicker than that could happen anyway, because they've got Back to Base Alarms in their houses (their choices, not because they've been made to - both are very conscious about safety).

Some time ago, someone (Jazzy, I think) asked the question as to where this perception came from that you guys could wander into a Gas Station and buy a firearm, because it's a misconception. My husband was over in the USA last year in California with the Defence Force and, the town they were staying in had at least one Gas Station that had a wall of alcohol down one side of the store, hot greasy take-away food down the other, and the back wall was covered in firearms for sale. Yes, it was in a town that was near a military area so I suppose it may have just been the area but, yep, he says they exist and I believe him. Deep south stuff...so that's where my comment came from.

Also, your own major industry, Hollywood, is also quite good for spreading this apparent misconception, so bring on the Tarantino bashing!

But, whatever, MY COUNTRY IS FOURTH on the list, so there...nyah, nyah, de, nyah, nyah!!! :D
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 01:21 AM
Puretap, I have never been to the Deep South, so I had no idea that foreign people could just buy unregistered guns like that.

I live in California, and people would probably freak out if they saw a gun in public. We are not allowed to carry them in public concealed. I guess we can carry them on a open holster or something, but the cops WILL get called for that.

I think the deep south has a much more pro gun community then we have.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 01:25 AM
I assure you that gas stations are not normally allowed to sell firearms. The VAST majority of gas stations can only sell beer and wine - not even liquor. I'm not doubting your husband's story, but that was obviously a combination liquor store/gas station/gun shop, and I've never seen anything like that before.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By PureTapPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 01:32 AM
Edited by PureTap (198987) on 2011-01-06 01:56:28 Coz I can...
Jazz, I don't know if the husband could have bought one of the guns there because he didn't try. He was just a bit baffled that you could have so many needs satisfied in one place that was supposed to sell petrol!

You can just imagine this big fat guy, all liquored up, totin' him some loaded iron ready to blast the bejeesous outta anyun that wanted to take him on, yok, yok, yok...

:O

Extra bit of editing - Panic, I've just done a bit of research to see if I could back this up with anything. I found a few references to Gun Shops that sold gas and alcohol in small towns, so maybe that's what he went in to? We're used to Gas Stations selling mainly petrol here, with limited grocery items as well so maybe he mispercieved it and it was a gun shop, that had a sideline of gas and grog?
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Cadbury_Eatermember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 04:54 AM
*handgun (though I already stated I don't have knowledge on different guns or operation, only ones I've talked about briefly in school war assignments)But still find it bizarre for any type of gun to be stored locked and loaded in a bedside table.

*an almost gun free society is term I meant or strictly controlled gun society, sorry for the lack of clarification

Well, it's one of those topics we're not going to agree about it. But I am against owning a gun, as per the two options in the title. I don't know if gun control laws would work in America, because they'd need a lot of manpower to enforce it etc. There's probably places your money is needed more like healthcare and supporting the high unemployed population due to the recession you experienced. Also the fact it's not isolated as Australia with land borders. But that wasn't the purpose of the debate, just whether you are for guns or not. I don't know enough about American culture, but from what I understand from people who've been there and this website, that it is vastly different from Australia in its values, societal breakdown and the way it's run. It's a tough issue, but I suppose your democracy has let the voting majority to decide on gun control. And you can decide what country to live in, so power to all you pro gun Americans.

But just the one begging question I have which I'll take from my earlier post (cause people just picked two small sections out), was the Second Amendment actually written with the intention of all citizens to bear arms? Or just to bear arms when under threat of your independence being taken (e.g for the military) or maybe just intended for hunting food or wild animals? Cause you will typically preach the Second Amendment for freedom to own guns but I always thought the amendment was for the military to have guns to only protect if your free state status was threatened?
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 2)
By imadanseurPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 08:38 AM
Here in Australia, kids don't play with gun replica toys, there's restrictions on how "real" they toys can be. With the parenting here, of course, you'd teach your child not to play with a gun.


You don't have any little boys running around pretending to shoot things in Australia? REALLY? When my brothers were little my dad had a no gun policy and refused to let them play with ANY toy gun whatsoever. My brother used to run around the house shooting my brother with a banana. My dad realized how silly he was being when my brothers were making guns out of aluminum foil. He gave them an air gun and started teaching them about gun safety and hunting. I had a nephew that wasn't allowed to play with guns. He used to try and shoot me with anything that he picked up...the funniest was when he came from behind the couch to shoot me with his tie before going to church. Boys do that kind of stuff. I don't know many boys that I have been around that don't. My husband and son have water gun fights, nerf gun fight and they are 14 and 48.

If you can't get your kid to understand the dangers of something, you're failing. We tell our kids not to touch dangerous things here like syringes, stoves and stay away from our numerous deadly fauna...it works. When kids are super young anyway and before they can understand danger they should be under your total supervision anyway.

Yeah over here in the States we encourage our kids to touch dirty things like needles and syringes, we totally advocate putting their face on a hot stove, play with venomous snakes, and never ever ever watch our kids. I do have a question though, since you are all so good at teaching your kids the dangers of everything why do you have any accidents that happen or any crime rate at all? Obviously some of it isn't working.

You do not need to give the kid a gun to educate them! I almost flinched when people said they'd just give their kids guns and familiarize them and teach them to shoot as soon they were old enough. . When people grow through adolescence, they can be very impulsive and lead to things like suicide, school shootings etc. Yes, they can use a bomb or a knife, but it just makes ONE LESS thing available. Also, other than the bomb, guns are the only other one that can KILL people from a DISTANCE. And most younger kids won't know how to make a bomb. Most of the scenarios here are not applicable, it's like 0.00000001 % a kid would find a gun at a friend's house and by the age a kid is going over to another's house they would understand a gun is dangerous.


I learned to shoot when I was 7 years old. My brothers were 12-14. Every single kid I knew at school had shot a gun at some point before they were 18. None of us ever shot someone, shot ourselves, etc. Your opinion makes no sense and is based on no facts whatsoever! You can find out how to make a bomb on the internet or in a library book. People that are responsible gun owners that have taught their kids about guns know that guns can be dangerous. If you saw one at a friends house (which I never did in 18 years of growing up with gun friendly people), we wouldn't just pick it up and play with it. You are taught to not handle other people's weapons. DUH!! I didn't go to my friend's house and play in their parent's car, or smoke their cigarettes, or drink their liquor. You respect people's property and you know not to touch other people's things.

What happens if the home intruder finds your gun and uses it on you?


So the intruder is already in my home, has somehow bypassed my security alarm, my dog decided not to bark at a stranger in the middle of the night, he has snuck into my bedroom without waking up my husband or I, knew to go to my end table, open the drawer where my gun is, and then decides to shoot me? ALRIGHTY THEN! Honey, you are watching a few too many movies.

was the Second Amendment actually written with the intention of all citizens to bear arms?


Yes, the Bill of Rights protects the rights of the "people" meaning individual citizens to bear arms, and establishes a well regulated militia. Our politicians can't just make a law that bans guns all together. There would have to be an amendment to the Constitution and that won't happen.

Not to have them available to shoot at each other whenever you want.


Yeah, we just all go around shooting people willy nilly. Just like you ride on kangaroos to work, have pet koala bears, and you all hunt with boomarangs. right mate?
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 09:17 AM
Image hotlink - 'http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs617.ash2/156992_689827383420_18914070_38747998_3644364_n.jpg'


Image hotlink - 'http://l29.sphotos.l3.fbcdn.net/hphotos-l3-snc4/hs1358.snc4/163054_689827792600_18914070_38748002_6545452_n.jpg'
Oh yeah, he's dead. Shotguns are awesome.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 2)
By Anon1234567890member has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 09:34 AM
All of these pictures of people with guns, and the fact that you can actually purchase a *s*t*u*n*n*i*n*g* pink gun (can I get a diamante encrusted one too?) just hints at them being seen as fashion accessories and something to show off about, which I find a very strange attitude indeed. I don't mind if someone wants a gun because they like the way it makes them feel, if it's legal it's fine. But just admit that instead of pretending it's for protection or whatever. Honestly, I think the whole attitude is much more "it's my CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to have a gun so I'm going to have one regardless!" than anything else. People have guns (and this has been said many times over) because that's what people in their area do, and I don't think people actually put any thought into why they "need" one. They were brought up on it so that's the way they continue to live, no questions asked. I reckon if you'd never had the right to own one, you wouldn't miss it, same as those of us from other countries don't miss them.

But these are just my feelings.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By amarathPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 09:35 AM
OK, so I haven't been keeping up with this, and it was a million pages ago. But:


Amartha, you may say that, but hopefully you will never be put into a position where you wish you had a gun. You may personally never been in a position like this but home invasions/muggings happen on a daily basis in my area. My guy goes to several calls a day that involves things similar to this.
I honestly find it a bit nutty that you WOULDN'T want a weapon to protect yourself. I don't understand the theory of making it easier for criminals to take advantage of you.


I live in a safe neighborhood in a huge city. Since 1999, there has been one murder in my neighborhood (technically a town incorporated inside the city of Houston--I live inside 610). Last year there were no reported rapes and 72 reported burglaries for a town of 18,000 people. Our crime rate was 44% of the national average. So no, I don't feel the need for a gun at all. If I took up hunting or sport shooting, sure. However, I don't feel the need to form a well-ordered militia of one, and frankly I don't envision myself being in need.

It's funny, we always talk about reasonable risks and precautions, like how deli turkey probably won't harm a fetus and how your children are more likely to be harmed by parents that don't let them go outside than by stranger danger, but crime makes a lot of people lose their sense of perspective. America is the safest it's been in decades, with a precipitous drop in crime across the board, but if you're exposed to a lot of media, you'd come off with a completely different vision of this country. I think I'll risk being the murder a decade before I'll swallow this idea that I need to live in fear.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 09:51 AM
was the Second Amendment actually written with the intention of all citizens to bear arms?
That has been debated, and fairly recently, the supreme court decided the amendment referred to individual citizens and not only an armed militia. It was intended so we can defend ourselves FROM OUR OWN GOVERNMENT - which we have done TWICE IN THE LAST 250 YEARS (once successfully, once not so much).

Re Louise: you don't see any photos of me with a gun, do you? I assure you my guns are for self-protection and not for fashion.

I found a few references to Gun Shops that sold gas and alcohol in small towns
Well, Wal-Mart sells guns and alcohol, so it's completely plausible. I've just never seen one so, I didn't want people to think you can walk into any gas station and buy a pistol.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 09:55 AM
Edited by jazz_lover (99333) on 2011-01-06 10:03:12 I added a lot more, but I didn't want to starfarm and create post after post.
What's wrong with a pink gun? Heck, some police woman even carry pink handcuffs!

Louise, you have to custom order a pink gun. If I am going to practice shooting it on a weekly basis, I may as well get something easy on the eyes. Plus, it is the same model that my boyfriend has, so it makes it easier to tell apart if we have them laying around.

What makes you think that they aren't for protection? People don't go shooting out on ranges weekly because it is for "fun". I mean there might be some people that do it for sport , but the majority of people I know go for practice.

You guys are making it sound easy to actually shoot someone. Do you know how hard it is to kill someone with a bullet from a handgun? More times then often, people don't die from handgun wounds either, unless there was an amazing headshot or something. Ever notice cops carry shotguns in their cars and rifles?

I think some of you are getting the impression that you can just point a gun at a person, and kill them. It is a heck a lot of harder then that to get a good shot. Which is why you see pictures of US with guns at ranges. We aren't there it make fashion statements nor are we there to just "have fun".

Non gun people don't appreciate the photos, but I have personally enjoyed the photos that people post. It shows me that they are responsible and none of them have shot their foot or brains out yet.

Oh btw, people seemed to have their panties in their bunch, and they didn't notice that I was shooting an illegal gun. It is a semi auto, which is illegal in CA.

If a law abiding citizen can get their hands on in it, imagine what a criminal can do.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By SaraTheGrouchmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 09:56 AM
Edited by SaraTheGrouch (63195) on 2011-01-06 09:58:21
Why do I "need" a gun? Why do you "need" a cell phone, computer, television, car, light bulbs, knitting needles, etc?

Because a gun is a vital part of shooting, which is one of my favorite hobbies. Shooting is a (non-medicinal) way for me to fine tune my attentiveness, reflexes, and focus, while releasing stress. It's just like playing golf, in that it takes a great deal of time, effort, and patience to get good at it. I don't just point my gun down range and spray all over the place. A golf club could also be used as a deadly weapon, you know...
And not only is it my hobby, but it is also a way for me to defend myself an my family against unwanted visitors and woodland creatures. I think all of the above should suffice as enough justification as to why I "need" a gun.

And about pink hand grips - they get filthy after two trips to the range. Hello, LEAD?!
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