Poll: Arts / Debates

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re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By panicmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri Jan 07, 2011 04:12 PM
Panic is a self proclaimed Cunning Linguist.
That just made me throw up in my mouth a little. lol.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Meganmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri Jan 07, 2011 04:14 PM
^You can share my title instead. I wouldn't want that one either. Ew.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By ChristinePremium member
On Fri Jan 07, 2011 06:12 PM
panic wrote:

Panic is a self proclaimed Cunning Linguist.
That just made me throw up in my mouth a little. lol.


Sorry...too many movie lines stuck in my head.

Please continue with the debate, master debaters.

Keep On Dancing*

PS The question at hand was, "should people be allowed to own guns".

Keep On Dancing*
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 1)
By kandykanePremium member
On Fri Jan 07, 2011 06:52 PM
...master (de)baters


*snicker*

kk~
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Cadbury_Eatermember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri Jan 07, 2011 08:06 PM
imadanseur wrote:

You don't have any little boys running around pretending to shoot things in Australia? REALLY? When my brothers were little my dad had a no gun policy and refused to let them play with ANY toy gun whatsoever. My brother used to run around the house shooting my brother with a banana. My dad realized how silly he was being when my brothers were making guns out of aluminum foil. He gave them an air gun and started teaching them about gun safety and hunting. I had a nephew that wasn't allowed to play with guns. He used to try and shoot me with anything that he picked up...the funniest was when he came from behind the couch to shoot me with his tie before going to church. Boys do that kind of stuff. I don't know many boys that I have been around that don't. My husband and son have water gun fights, nerf gun fight and they are 14 and 48.


I never said little kids and that couldn't use their fingers or bananas to shoot at each other, just that we don't have realistic gun toys. The closest would be a water pistol, which doesn't look like a actual gun. Just saying a kid would be less likely to confuse a toy and a gun because they look entirely different because our toys aren't like REAL GUNS. So the whole argument of kids not knowing the difference because I haven't handed them a real gun and then shot with them does not hold water.

imadanseur wrote:

Yeah over here in the States we encourage our kids to touch dirty things like needles and syringes, we totally advocate putting their face on a hot stove, play with venomous snakes, and never ever ever watch our kids. I do have a question though, since you are all so good at teaching your kids the dangers of everything why do you have any accidents that happen or any crime rate at all? Obviously some of it isn't working. I learned to shoot when I was 7 years old. My brothers were 12-14. Every single kid I knew at school had shot a gun at some point before they were 18. None of us ever shot someone, shot ourselves, etc. Your opinion makes no sense and is based on no facts whatsoever! You can find out how to make a bomb on the internet or in a library book. People that are responsible gun owners that have taught their kids about guns know that guns can be dangerous. If you saw one at a friends house (which I never did in 18 years of growing up with gun friendly people), we wouldn't just pick it up and play with it. You are taught to not handle other people's weapons. DUH!! I didn't go to my friend's house and play in their parent's car, or smoke their cigarettes, or drink their liquor. You respect people's property and you know not to touch other people's things.


Oh yes, teaching children to not do something OBVIOUSLY doesn't work, because my country has a crime rate and accidents. Whoop de doo, that all your kids turned out you knew turned out fine but how come I hear of kids accidentally shooting themselves or a school or uni shooting in your country now and again on the news? Because obviously your gun control laws aren't working because irresponsible people get guns, who obviously don't teach their children. So I've grown up with all my friends turning out fine too and never accidentally shooting anyone, without having to hold a gun and just being educated they are dangerous. As I said the scenario of finding a gun in a house here is so extremely slim, yet despite that guns here are few, any kid that's old enough to be left unsupervised would know what it is and not play with it. Yes, someone could work how to make a bomb, I'm not disputing someone make a bomb here or in the States. But you have to be pre mediatated to make a bomb, where if you had access to a gun, it'd be a lot more convenient. And despite the fact that apparently you're all responsible gunowners, the occasional nutter obviously gets a gun. Probably there is a more blackmarket for it because all those responsible gunowners guns are stolen and dealt under the table. Oh and what about in some states just being able to sell to each other with no paperwork? With our strict control, we don't have the possibility for a lot of these scenarios to be even plausible. The likelihood of a kid coming across a gun is so slim, barely anyone has them and most people keep them well locked up because they don't want to lose their license and face fines. Everyone in my family has lived their whole lives with not encountering a scenario that having a gun would be advantageous.

I will pay that my scenario was unlikely, however even if you had a gun on you, you could also be shot from long range before you even had chance to pull your own gun. Think of mass shootings? You'd at least have to admit it'd be safer if less people had guns, but I understand your guys dependence to have them because gun control would likely not be effectively enforced because of having land borders, blackmarket etc. If you grew up without guns around, you would not miss them. However in the same breath, I think if you had more gun control, it would reduce the likelihood of guns falling in to unresponsible people's hands. Like I can't fathom not having to do paperwork when selling in between people from the same state!

But one thing, I don't understand is this prideful culture of having a gun! All these happy snaps with guns, I don't fathom how you can have happy snaps with something solely designed to kill. (Not saying you all have that culture, just a few on this thread) I'm not begrudging DDNers, because I'm sure you're responsible owners, but with many people having guns it just make it way more possible for it to fall in to the wrong hands, and then, are you really safer for having a gun? Cause the most dangerous thing about a gun is the person behind it.

Thanks for the clarification on the Second Amendment.

I hope we aren't causing rifts between each other in this fiery debate, but it's really a clash of culture. I'm sure I sound absurd to you, but it all sounds so absurd to me.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 2)
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member
On Fri Jan 07, 2011 09:55 PM
^ I think the best I can explain it is ...pointe shoes.

For someone who isn't a dancer, they may not understand why anyone would want to put on shoes that makes the feet hurt. Why would anyone wear shoes designed to put huge amounts of pressure on such a small surface. Dancers look just as good on flat shoes, so there is no need for the strain of pointe shoes.
" I don't fathom how you can have happy snaps with something solely designed to make the woman look unreal ( Make believe land)l and hurt the feet."

I think the whole "showing off the gun" thing has to do with like minded owners. For the record, the gun in the picture is not under my possession. I think it is like pointe shoes. Pointe shoes aren't designed to show off, but I sure see plenty of pointe shoes on this site. If you find something that really fits your feet, you should be proud of it. Same as a gun. Once you find that perfect one, you bond with it.
While a gun is designed to protect and kill, it doesn't mean that you can't show other gun owners. It is the equivalent of showing off your amazing new Blochs that make your arch look amazing.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 2)
By MarlaSingermember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sat Jan 08, 2011 07:30 AM
For the record, I do not personally own any guns, nor have I ever shot one, but Mark has a couple (we're American), so this is more based on secondhand knowledge.

Yes, a gun can kill, but target shooting is also a legitimate hobby and form of recreation, and people who have practiced at it and who have some skill at it are generally proud of it, just like most of us are when we learn a new skill. Would you have the same issue with someone posting a picture of themselves posing with a bow and arrow? Because to me it's not really any different. I don't look at these pictures and say, "Oh, look at Heart with her killing machine! Now she can go out and blow someone's brains out!" I see it more as pride about mastering a certain skill, and one that makes a lot of people feel pretty good about themselves, even if they never take the gun outside the firing range. I also think that when it's a female posing for the picture, there is sometimes an additional measure of pride that they have tried and succeeded at a pursuit that is typically associated with men, but I certainly don't want to speak for all women. I just know that if it were ME in the picture, I would probably feel that way.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By pokomember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sat Jan 08, 2011 04:21 PM
So, with the shooting of Gifford today....

The fact he was carrying a concealed weapon? Oh, and someone did try to shoot back, missed. A 9 year old girl died. Thoughts?

They are focusing highly on the fact the shooter may have a mental illness. But what about the fact that he was still issued a gun?

Id feel unsafe walking down a street, not knowing who might have a weapon. It looks like guns and safety is a huge difference between Americans and Australians.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By ChristinePremium member
On Sat Jan 08, 2011 05:35 PM
^This was certainly a tragedy. And things like this make us all shake our heads and look for a quick fix to make sure it never happens again.

In one of my previous posts I mentioned that my position on gun ownership was something I did not come to lightly. When I was very young I lived through so many national tragedies involving guns that I swore I'd never own one. In my adult life, I've been touched by more than one tragedy involving a child and a gun. Again, I asked, why does anyone need a gun?

But the sad truth is that there are times when we have to hold our nose before we vote. If the world was a safe, fair, predictable place, 1+1 would always equal 2. In many places, 1+1=doughnut. It was actually events in Europe in 1992 that changed my mind. www.historyplace.com . . . Until then, I believed that as long as people remembered the pain of violence and intolerance the governments of civilized nations could protect its citizens. Then I grew up.

It is just awful that the five people in Arizona were killed today. It is also awful that so many peace loving people were terrorized by these events. However, from time to time madmen drive cars through the windows of stores, terrorists deliver bombs on bicycles, and plant poison laced Tylenol on store shelves. Life can be ugly.

I sincerely hope the citizens of Tuscon can find the strength to endure the days ahead and can heal the way the citizens of Oklahoma City did years ago. (ps...a car...no guns...and babies were killed)

Peace.

Keep On Dancing*
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By pondflyPremium member
On Mon Jan 10, 2011 04:10 PM
Edited by pondfly (218838) on 2011-01-10 16:13:43
@Poko- Your info was a little off about someone from the public shooting back.

A little info on the AZ shooting, the person who was armed did not fire as he didn't have a clear shot on the offender. He and another person waited for him to run out and then use that advantage to subdue him.

Why did he do this? Because the persons who carry concealed know the dangers of firing a weapon and the cause/effect that would happen if someone took a life.
Think if he tried to take out the person and shot a another bystander by mistake? The media would have ripped him to shreds.

The failure here was the usual, state and federal agencies not openly sharing information.

This person, due to his heroic actions is getting a custom built rifle donated to him as a thanks from a weapon manufacturer that I know and support.


Oh, and before the haters come in, here is the interview of the person carrying concealed.

www.kgun9.com . . .
The Heroes of Tragedy

<snip>
As Zamudio ran out the Walgreens he said that a man told him to run and that's exactly what he did. But Zamudio ran toward the shooter.

"Well I think this is how we need to react. We're Americans and we need to not be afraid" said Zamudio.

After using up one magazine clip, Jared Loughner who investigators have named as the shooter, ran out of bullets and tried to reload. That's when Maisch stepped in. "Somebody said 'Grab the magazine'. So, he got it out of his pocket and it ended up on the sidewalk next to his hand but I was able to grab it before he did and get the magazine" said Maisch.

Two men took the gunman down and Zamudio says he kept him there. "I put my legs behind his knees and my arm on the small of his back and the other guy was stepping on his neck" described Zamudio.

"Did he look like he was in shock?" asked Vo. "I don't think so. His face was calm. His face was even and he had almost a smirk on his face" said Zamudio.

When deputies showed up, Zamudio says he watched as they emptied as many as 90 bullets out of the shooter's pockets. Zamudio has no doubt that the shooter had plans of taking more lives. He is saddened over the loss of all the victims, especially 9-year-old Christina Green.

"This little girl didn't have a chance to do anything and she gets her pink slip early because this kid's an idiot? This jerk can't deal with his aggressions or cant make friends or whatever his problem was that he has to come out here and ruin nineteen families?" said Zamudio.

"If you could say something to him today, what would you say?" asked Vo.

"I'm glad I didn't shoot you. He has to pay for it. He has to look everyone in the eye. Has to look at all those mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters."
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Cadbury_Eatermember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jan 11, 2011 06:59 PM
news.yahoo.com . . .

That news article states the he was able to buy the gun himself, as he passed all the requirements. Do you think gun control in Arizona (one of the most lax states) needs to be tightened? Is there a state with gun control laws you deem ideal, that should be modelled nationwide? Or do you believe Loughner was one of those that just slipped through the cracks, and was unavoidable?

Personally, my heart goes out to all those affected by the tragedy. I just think that without change, it is doomed to happen again. The change doesn't necessarily have to be related to gun laws either, there's plenty of other social issues at hand too. Like you could suggest more training in schools to detect mental health issues, more security at politcal events etc. I know there's no quick fix answer either. Just do you think should be done that would hopefully reduce the chance of a tragedy like this happening again?
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Wicked_Elphabamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Jan 11, 2011 07:27 PM
That news article states the he was able to buy the gun himself, as he passed all the requirements. Do you think gun control in Arizona (one of the most lax states) needs to be tightened? Is there a state with gun control laws you deem ideal, that should be modelled nationwide? Or do you believe Loughner was one of those that just slipped through the cracks, and was unavoidable?


I don't necessarily thinks it needs to be tightened, but agencies need to communicate.

In the People's Republic of Illinois, I have to fill out an application for a FOID (Firearm Owner Identification Card) card, there is a question that asks if you're mentally retarded and if you've ever been committed. Since he is not mentally retarded, nor had he ever been committed, he could probably buy a gun in Illinois, which is a state for being notoriously tough on gun control. No system will ever be perfect. But banning gun all together is not the answer as stuff like this will still happen.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By pondflyPremium member
On Tue Jan 11, 2011 09:47 PM
Edited by pondfly (218838) on 2011-01-11 21:47:55 Spelling
Unfortunately the problem with this country and I can say from first hand experience is that communication is the issue.

Local doesn't talk to state; State doesn't talk to Feds; Feds don't talk to Feds.

Tighten that gap and it would close a considerable amount of problems for legal transactions through an FFL.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 1)
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:38 AM
What on earth could have been added to the background check to deny Loughner the weapon?

Being charged with a crime cannot be a disqualification - you are innocent until proven guilty, especially when a charge is dropped. Due to the massive overcrowding of the criminal justice system, it isn't practical to do away with programs such as those allowing charges to be dropped if rehab is completed. In addition, the charges were extremely minor - possessing pot paraphenalia and vandalism? Those are misdemeanors!

Being banned from a college campus? That has nothing to do with anything, really. Colleges are not part of the criminal justice system, and even public schools are pretty much private institutions. Campus public safety are not "real" law enforcement. Unless the police get involved, there's no viable way for that to be incorporated into a background check.

Mental health problems? Loughner was never diagnosed with anything and never even saw a mental health professional. There is no reason to deny him a firearm on those grounds. And the spokesman from NAMI is right - overwhelmingly, those with mental illnesses are NOT violent. From the Surgeon General's report on mental illness: "the overall contribution of mental disorders to the total level of violence in society is exceptionally small."

Rejection from the army? Private is private, and again, he failed a drug test. Not exactly an indication of future violence.


The bottom line is that we can't prevent all tragedies. In a lot of cases, there is nothing that could possibly have been done.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By hylndlasmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:29 PM
I just found out I can get my concealed Carry from Virginia as a non resident after I finish taking the woman's handgun class at the NRA.

I will not transfer to Maryland though....(you have to be a victim of a violent crime here to get one) BUT it will for Florida and a couple other states.

We already own a Glock.....not sure yet which pistol I will get yet....I'll know after the class because they will have several there for me to try out.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By SaraTheGrouchmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Tue Mar 29, 2011 07:20 AM
^ Maryland strikes AGAIN! I can't stand the laws in that state.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By JosieJoymember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Thu May 12, 2011 02:14 PM
I am dead against this and it completely baffles that it is legal in America for practically anyone to own a gun. I'm sorry but, just no it's not right.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 1)
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Fri May 13, 2011 12:21 PM
^ Dude, what? You've been here since 2005. This is the debate forum. Your opinion means nothing. "I'm sorry but, just no it's not right"??? That's pretty much the same thing as saying "Goblin spatula tortoise frigid sauerkraut," for all we care and for all the information it gives us.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Trout
On Fri May 13, 2011 07:21 PM
So there's already 9 pages of debate but I'm popping in now for a little story. Sorry if what I've said has been repeated but I'm too lazy to read nine whole pages of replies.

Guns make me feel safe. Maybe it's because I'm an American or whatever, but I do feel safer when myself/other people have guns. I recently took a trip to Israel, and at any given time, I could look around and see a soldier with a machine gun. Granted, this is an example of extreme military security in a country, but I felt totally safe while I was there.

In the States, I don't mind if people are carrying guns. If I'm smart about things and don't get involved in any silly business, I don't need to actively worry about getting shot. Yes, people have been killed by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but I could die at any time for any reason simply from being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I could get hit by a car and die, I could get food poisoning and die, I could fall down the stairs and die, so getting accidentally shot isn't a huge concern for me. All accidents could have been prevented. Preventable accidents happen all the time, you can't live your life in fear.

I don't carry a gun. I have a .22 rifle for target practice, which I find to be a really fun sport. I've considered carrying a small handgun in the past, but I figure if I ever got into a situation that would require me pulling a gun, I wouldn't be the only person with a gun, and I would be out of luck.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By hylndlasmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sun May 15, 2011 04:33 PM
JosieJoy wrote:

I am dead against this and it completely baffles that it is legal in America for practically anyone to own a gun. I'm sorry but, just no it's not right.


In American it is a "Right" to own (and carry depending on your state....but they can not restrict ownership if you met certain requirements).

The right falls under our second amendment. You may not like it....but our founding fathers fought a rather ugly war to make sure the average Joe could be free. You also have the right to NOT own. I have no problem with that at all. I know many people do not care for guns.

While I respect your right about not owning, please return the favor and don't restrict my right to own.

There are a lot of responsible gun owners here in the states. I'm one of them.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Wicked_Elphabamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Wed May 18, 2011 06:36 PM
hylndlas wrote:

JosieJoy wrote:

I am dead against this and it completely baffles that it is legal in America for practically anyone to own a gun. I'm sorry but, just no it's not right.


In American it is a "Right" to own (and carry depending on your state....but they can not restrict ownership if you met certain requirements).

The right falls under our second amendment. You may not like it....but our founding fathers fought a rather ugly war to make sure the average Joe could be free. You also have the right to NOT own. I have no problem with that at all. I know many people do not care for guns.

While I respect your right about not owning, please return the favor and don't restrict my right to own.

There are a lot of responsible gun owners here in the states. I'm one of them.


As am I. See photos above. I am licensed and am pleased as punch the NRA filed suit against the People's Republic of IL for not allowing concealed carry because it infringes on my 2nd amendment rights.

Gun control means using both hands.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Cadbury_Eatermember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sat May 21, 2011 06:41 AM
I find Trout's explanation so interesting. It's a polar opposite to how I'd feel knowing everyone has guns. I find the thought of seeing everyone with guns making me feel NOT safe.

JosieJoy, even though I am quite on your side, it's not sufficient to just tell people it's wrong and you're right on the debate forum.

This debate really shows the difference in gun attitudes between the US and UK/Aus.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Cienmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sat May 21, 2011 11:43 AM
Edited by CienPorCientoPAZ (147923) on 2011-05-21 11:47:15
Cadbury, be careful not to generalize. I'm from the U.S. (although now that I think about it, you might be too? I can't remember) and all this pro-gun rah-rah-ing does not describe my views at ALL. There's a concealed carry bill going through my state legislature right now, actually, and it's extremely unsettling to me. I think part of what makes this a difficult issue is that a lot of pro-gun people don't stop to think about how THEIR gun use affects OTHER people--yes, you have the right to carry a gun, but everyone around you also has the right to feel safe in their own community.

I've just...never been able to understand the idea that people are safer when there are more guns around--that equation makes no sense.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun. (karma: 1)
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sat May 21, 2011 02:51 PM
Edited by Heart (21721) on 2011-05-21 14:58:34
Edited by Heart (21721) on 2011-05-21 15:05:13
Right to own and carry a firearm > "right to feel safe in your own community"

See: The Constitution.

You have no "right to feel safe." In fact, being that the Declaration of Independence is not a legal document in and of itself, so you don't even have the explicit right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," were you going to take that route. (The status of the Declaration is best described as an "interpretive guide." It is an international law document, not applicable to the then-Colonies.) The Constitution is the Law of the Land. It trumps everything.

The right of American citizens to own and carry firearms is explicitly stated in the Constitution, and therefore overrides any sketchy and legally questionable rights of citizens to "feel" a certain way.

Take that, bold font!


*Note the lack of the use of the word "concealed carry" here. Unconcealed carry is a right; concealed carry varies by state.


I've just...never been able to understand the idea that people are safer when there are more guns around--that equation makes no sense.

Yeah, statistics are a bitch.
re: Are you against owning a gun or for owning a gun.
By Wicked_Elphabamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member
On Sat May 21, 2011 03:26 PM
CienPorCientoPAZ wrote:

Cadbury, be careful not to generalize. I'm from the U.S. (although now that I think about it, you might be too? I can't remember) and all this pro-gun rah-rah-ing does not describe my views at ALL. There's a concealed carry bill going through my state legislature right now, actually, and it's extremely unsettling to me. I think part of what makes this a difficult issue is that a lot of pro-gun people don't stop to think about how THEIR gun use affects OTHER people--yes, you have the right to carry a gun, but everyone around you also has the right to feel safe in their own community.
I've just...never been able to understand the idea that people are safer when there are more guns around--that equation makes no sense.


Ummmm .....You do realize if someone is carrying concealed you'd never know. 48 states in the US have it. So if you've been to states other than WI or IL, chances are you've encountered someone who was carrying. A few states even have open carry.
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