Ha, got your attention with that title, didn't I?

Well, it's actually true. I'm looking for some help in this area.

My husband and I have been married for several months. I work in the publishing industry (entry level, but anyway). Over the past year or so, I've noticed that I have been picking at my husband's grammar constantly. It drives me crazy when he uses a word incorrectly in an argument.

Sometimes I would just quickly correct him and move on with the conversation, which usually adds more fuel to the fire, if you know what I mean. He gets more agitated. Once, he erupted, "Are you seriously correcting my grammar when we're in the middle of an argument about family issues?!"

I feel horrible. And yes, I have been trying to stop, but there's another side to this story. My husband is well, in my opinion, borderline illiterate. He's 30, and while he can read fairly difficult material, he can barely write a sentence correctly. I'm not exaggerating. I would venture a guess and claim that he writes on a 3rd or 4th grade level.

He was homeschooled, and I suspect that he has some sort of learning disability that was never addressed. He has begged me, in the past, to simply fill out his job applications and write his essays. (He would dictate the answers while I re-worded the sentences and typed them out.)

I did that once or twice, but I put my foot down. He wants to advance in his career, and I think that I'm just impeding him by completing his applications. Now, he works on the computer and I correct his work before he submits it.

However, the situation is heartbreaking for me. I almost cry when correcting his work because he cannot write a coherent sentence. His spelling is atrocious and he has no sentence or essay writing skills. He also has no idea how to use phonics to made educated guesses about spelling.

Several times I tried to work with him. I purchased workbooks, but he would just get frustrated and give up. I talked to my mother about this, and she pointed out that he was most likely embarrassed that he was "failing" in front of me, and that I probably wouldn't get anywhere tutoring him.

I'm stuck. We can't afford some sort of tutoring service (and I'm sure that he would REALLY be embarrassed about doing that). My husband tells me that he understands when I try to sound out words, bring out the dictionary and correct his grammar. But he gets impatient every single time, and we have had more arguments than I can count.

My husband is so smart. I love him so much and I enjoy talking with him about everything. I feel that my 'Grammar Nazi' persona wouldn't be so strong if I wasn't genuinely concerned about his future in his career. I'm just not sure what I can do to help him get over this hurdle.

If you got to this point, thank you so much, and I'm ready to hear anything: advice, anecdotes, etc.

To quote the lyrics from a 1950's musical ("Wonderful Town") Music by Leonard Bernstein words by Betty Comden and Adolph Green.

(Sung)
YOU’VE FOUND YOUR PERFECT MATE AND IT’S BEEN LOVE FROM THE START.
HE WHISPERS, “YOU’RE THE ONE TO WHO I GIVE MY HEART.”
DON’T SAY, “I LOVE YOU TOO, MY DEAR, LET’S NEVER NEVER PART.”

(Spoken)
Just say, “I’m afraid you’ve made a grammatical error
it’s not ‘To who I give my heart,’ it's ‘To whom I give my heart’
You see, with the use of the preposition ‘to,’ ‘who’ becomes the indirect object,
making the use of ‘whom’ imperative which
I can easily show you by drawing a simple chart”

(Sung)

JUST SHOW HIM WHERE HIS GRAMMAR ERRS,
THEN MARK YOUR TOWELS “HERS” AND “HERS.”



Jon

My usual disclaimer: I am not married, but have been with the same man for over eight years, getting married in six months, blah blah blah.

First things first: You have GOT to stop correcting his grammar when he's speaking. What do you honestly hope to accomplish by interrupting him while he's talking and pointing out that he's using the wrong verb tense? Do you think he's really going to say, "Thank you for pointing that out; I'll be sure to remember that for next time"? Because he's not. Of COURSE he's going to get exasperated with you, especially if he's trying to express something to you that he feels is important. It probably feels to him as if you are not even really listening to the content of what he's saying because you're so fixated on correcting his grammar mistakes.

And who are you to "teach" him to speak correctly anyway? I'm sure you have a very good grasp on grammar, and I'm even sure that it's a lot better than his, but that doesn't give you the right to force your superior knowledge on him. That's not your job. If he had come to you and said, "Honey, I really want to learn to speak correctly. Please help me," that would be a different story, but I don't see any indication in your post that he has said any such thing. So instead you are coming off like a know-it-all who wants him to speak correctly because it irks YOU when he doesn't.

As far as his career goes, I can believe that his poor reading and writing skills might be holding him back, but what he needs from you is support and encouragement, not workbooks and grammar lessons. This is something he needs to tackle on his own. I really don't even like the idea of you checking over his job applications before he submits them. You're not his mother, and you're not his teacher. Let him complete the applications himself. If he's struggling, help him figure out someone he can talk to - someone other than you. Is there someone at his current job who might be interested in mentoring him? Is there an adult learning program that specializes in writing competency that he might be able to get into? Not all of these types of programs cost a lot of money. A local college near where I live offers adult courses for $50 or less.

Bottom line: This is his battle to fight. It might make sense to you that you should be the one to help him because he's struggling in an area in which you excel, but just take that element out of the equation, because your mom's right. He doesn't want help from you. He doesn't want to feel inferior to you. So let's pretend he's struggling with something that you know nothing about. What steps would you take? Would you help him look for affordable classes? Go to the library with him to look for books on the subject? Do internet research to see how other people in his situation had managed to increase their knowledge? Whatever you would do if he were struggling with something that was important for his career but completely foreign to you, do that. That's what he needs - for you to help him take the preliminary steps and then leave the rest up to him.

Jonelle, you make a lot of good points. I did want to point something out. He did ask me to help him study spelling and grammar SEVERAL times. We have discussed this issue for years. He just gets frustrated so easily, so I think that your general sentiment is right. I can't continue to carry him like this.

We simply can't afford anything right now, but if I can even find a course online, that would be better than nothing.

I was also a language teacher at one point. I know that I probably don't have the ability to teach him what he needs to learn (unless it's Spanish or Russian grammar!), but I just don't know what else to do. I'll look into our local community center's classes and check the prices, but I don't know if he would even want to take the time to do that.

It's just difficult, because he thinks that he's going to get these jobs without being able to write a clear, concise essay. We've talked about it, and while he does acknowledge that, I'm not sure about how much it's sunk in.

I guess that this is his battle and he has to fight it himself!


And yes, I acknowledge that my grammar nazi attitude is not helping. I'm really trying to keep my mouth shut!

This is a matter for him and his doctor. Not you. You need to keep out of it, because you are entirely too condescending to be helpful. And that's not necessarily a bad thing - my mom tried to teach my sister how to write her name, and they ended up in a toe to toe shouting match with each other. Sometimes, you just are too invested in the situation to be helpful. This is one of those times. Encourage him to see his doctor.

And by the way, I was insulted by most of your efforts, and I'm not even connected to this situation. :/ Really. What good could possibly come of stopping him in the middle of a fight to tell him he isn't using a word the right way?

My cousin only managed to make it through school by using one of those little pocket dictionary things that he could punch in words, and made it through college by liberal use off the Word spell checker. And he's a perfectly happy, perfectly functioning well adult, with a job he loves. Amazing, right?

What jobs is he applying for that require him to write an essay? I'm honestly intrigued. I've applied for my share of jobs, and I've never had to write an essay as part of the application process for any of them.

You put your foot down? Are you trying to teach him a lesson or something?

My beloved is a brilliant man but he's a pretty lousy speller and terrible with punctuation. I've cleaned up just about every single business letter, contract, proposal, script, etc. that he's ever written for almost thirty years. His ideas are amazing, I just help make the presentation look good. It's called teamwork. I don't get upset that in all these years he hasn't improved his skills in the grammar/spelling area. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. If you want your marriage to last you are going to have to change your ways completely. It's not that you are a grammar Nazi, it's that you are impatient, intolerant and judgmental. There is every reason for your husband to be a success with your SUPPORT not PRESSURE.

i feel really bad for your husband, if you really think he may have a learning disability and he can't help it, why would you correct him in casual conversation? that's like telling someone with tourette's, oh, you're twitching again.

you say you've been trying to stop in that case, but, just stop. When you get the urge to correct him in a conversation, just don't. I also do editorial work. I do not have that urge to correct other people's grammar, and in most situations, when i'm not working, my grammar is awful.

Your insistence on correcting him sounds a little obsessive if it's in the middle of arguments, etc. If you can't focus on the content and issue in front of you and get sidetracked and feel this strong urge to correct his grammar, you should consider that an issue you should work to improve, and not just that it is because of your husbands grammar. You do not come across as if you are trying to be vindictive or anything. But that fact alone probably puts him on edge when you're trying to help him out. Some people aren't cut out to be teachers, that's totally ok! But, I would leave that up to people that are good teachers, if you want to help him out, why not look up writing classes for adults in community centers or colleges near you, find ones that specialize in helping adults that may have learning disabilities, there are tons out there!

a little side story: my mom said she used to write letters to her older sister, and her older sister would send them back with grammar corrections on them, she wouldn't even answer the letter. my mom always seems really bothered by that when she tells that story, don't get so caught up in the little details that you discount the feelings of someone you care about

I wish you both some luck!

I agree with Jonelle. If he really wants to improve his literacy, there are resources through libraries and community centers that can help him without a ton of money associated with it. This only makes sense--people who are functionally illiterate aren't usually bringing in the big bucks. Have you looked into any of these?

Your husband wants to be treated like a person, not a project. I'd indulge him.

Dani

Jonelle wrote:

What jobs is he applying for that require him to write an essay? I'm honestly intrigued. I've applied for my share of jobs, and I've never had to write an essay as part of the application process for any of them.

I don't exactly want to say...I do some work that I can't talk about publicly, so I want to have a degree of anonymity on the internet. I'm sorry I can't elaborate (I'm just paranoid about a co-worker being able to identify me with some of these facts. I think I revealed a bit too much on this site already!)

However, they are...okay, I wouldn't call them essays. They are more like long answers (two or three paragraphs) that he has to fill out during the application and test process.

Once, he asked me to look at his answers and he didn't even write a complete sentence for any of them. He just wrote these really short fragments. One of the long answers was about two sentences, and I tried to help him construct longer answers by talking him through it.

He got upset at one point and said, "Can't you just do this for me?" (Not that he really wanted me to make up his answers; he was just frustrated)

I know that I sound condescending, but for instance, he mispronounces street names all the time. He's given friends directions to get to our place and they've gotten lost because some of the street names he identified were almost completely different from the actual street names. Sometimes he will say 20 instead of 200, which he needs to have straight for some parts of his job. (This is why I think he has a learning disability)

And he WILL be taking some tests for his job. So d4j, while I understand the need for a great partnership, I won't be going into the interview and taking the tests for him. They will know IMMEDIATELY that he didn't write his resume or long answers if I 'clean up' his writing, because our 'voices' are very different. I put my foot down on re-constructing his sentences for him because I thought that they resembled my own writing style too much. I felt weird trying to make the sentences sound like 'him,' whatever that meant.

When I check his papers, I say, "Okay, let's say this in a complete sentence. How would you do this?"

If it was just that, it wouldn't be as big of an issue. But when he takes the tests, there are going to be problems. He already got rejected for several jobs because of this, but it just hasn't snapped in him yet. I am not pushing him towards anything. It's a simple fact that he would need to read and write at the 8th grade level for this next level in his career, and even though he says that he wants help, he hasn't put that into practice in his daily life yet.

And no, I don't nag him every day about this. But he's coming up on some big job interviews, and I just don't want this cycle to keep repeating over and over, for his sake. I feel bad for him because I know he's struggling. If I could do anything about it, I would.

Yes, I do acknowledge that correcting his grammar constantly isn't good. (Our joke is that he also corrects me because I'm very scatterbrained when I'm speaking off-the-cuff) I edit other people's work daily and I'm just taking that out on him. We just had a talk about that and I told him that I won't correct him unless he gives me the green light.

We did have a good talk about it and he is going to study with some workbooks while we look for classes or something. I'm even thinking of finding a computer game to help with his spelling; he's okay with doing the spelling version of Math Blaster or one of those games.

I didn't mean take tests for him, or fill out stuff FOR him, but there is a difference between helping someone and just letting them flounder. Sorry for confusion.

But you do sound totally condescending, I know you don't mean to, but if someone said to me, "Okay, let's say this in a complete sentence", I would want to smack them. Just sayin'...

You knew this about him before you got married didn't you? It's not like all of a sudden it's dawning on the both of you that he can't get better jobs without a better education? Honestly, he's NOT going to get the better jobs if he can't write a complete sentence. And a few workbooks or online courses are not going to get him up to speed really quickly in time to write an essay right away. This is a longer-term problem and it is up to him as to whether he will fix it. He can accept that can only get lower paying jobs for now while he works on his skills and/or looks into whether or not he has a disability. BUT if you keep pushing him to go beyond his abilities (or if he pushes himself and tries to fudge his way through ) it's going to backfire.

You also may have to accept that he may NEVER improve in this area and that he will be a low-pay earner and that is how it will be. Or, open a business together and he can be the idea guy and you be do all the communications...

best of luck-

Yeah, we actually talked about this before we got...engaged, even. He doesn't mind if I'm the breadwinner.

In fact, we joke about our current situation. I was unemployed for almost a year after graduation and even though I am a contract worker for some research institutions and publications, I probably make as much as he does. I think that will change with time, but you never know. We're okay either way, as long as the other partner is pulling their weight in some way. I have a chronic illness, which may impact my career in the long run.

We've talked about every scenario. I just want him to be at a job that he loves, and he isn't happy where he is right now.

I acknowledged that he probably would never to go to college (that's never been a desire for him, anyway) looong before we were married. He loves learning and we can look over books for hours. When it comes to politics and philosophy, he's the perfect debate partner. We're intellectual complements to each other.

Besides my grammar nazi tendencies, I'm just worrying about this more lately because of his desire to move up in his job. I would support him completely if he takes a few years to study writing while staying at his current job. But he's just applying and taking tests without realizing that he needs to improve his writing skills drastically before he would be able to pass those tests.

I don't want to discourage him, and we've already talked about the reality of the situation. I think that's all I can do until he's ready to really work on the issue.

And yeah, I know that we should probably have him tested to see if he's dyslexic or if he has another learning disability. I know that it's kind of late in the game (I am really angry that no one in his family addressed this earlier, but that's another story), but he still wants to improve and I'm behind him all the way.

Thanks for the advice, all. I love and support him completely, but I guess my actions have been saying the opposite.

Dyslexic has nothing to do with grammar. It is the inability of the brain to recognize symbols.
You aren't a grammar nazi, you're just condescending and power-tripping. This has nothing to do with language and everything to do with control.

Both my parents and all of my brothers have horrible grammar. My talent has always been writing. They bring me things to correct for them all the time and it is awful. I just circle the problems and write things like "Missing a word," "use active voice," "Sentence fragment," hand it back to them and I let them correct it. If they have questions, then they ask. But I wouldn't want them belittling me when I was trying to do something they know how to do, so I don't do it to them.

You know what, most of the world has bad grammar. I work at a magazine and when I'm not writing, I'm proofing ads. I find grammar errors in about 60 percent of them and we've given up correcting them because the advertisers think they're correct.

As for correcting his grammar when he's speaking, all you are doing there is making it obvious you're hearing what he's saying, but you're not listening or thinking about what he's saying. You're simply gathering ammo to shoot him down. Is that really the message that you want to send? Criticizing someone's grammar is usually a cop-out to when they have a better argument than you. Beyond the career world (and sometimes, even including it) it is really WHAT you say that counts, not perfect grammar.

Personally, I think the best way to learn grammar is to read. Get him a magazine subscription in a subject that he likes. I feel grammar and pronunciation are learned behaviors, and the more you see and hear it done correctly, the more you will use it correctly.

Regardless of your specific issues with your husband, I think you might benefit from learning a bit more about the difference between prescriptive grammar and descriptive grammar. A halfway decent starting place is: en.wikipedia.org . . .

In a nutshell, prescriptivism is the practice of stating how language ought to be used, according to some arbitrary standard (this is what you seem to do). Descriptivism is the practice of stating how language is used by the people who use it (this might be a helpful way for you to deal with your husband's "problems"). The key is realizing that prescriptivism is based on an *arbitrary* standard -- that is, there's no linguistic reason to favor one way of saying something over another. If your husband (or anyone else) legitimately talks a particular way, then that's a perfectly "correct" way of talking -- it just doesn't happen to match the standard.

An example: I'm sure you know the prescriptive rule "don't use double negatives." This is supposed to be based on "logic" in that in math, multiplying two negatives together makes a positive. A couple of thoughts:

1. Sometimes, of course, we do in fact want to have two negatives make a positive, in which case it's perfectly fine to use double negatives. ("Well, I wouldn't say that I have NO fear....")

2. It's only when you multiply in math that two negatives make a positive. If you ADD two negatives, you do in fact get a negative (a negative with a larger magnitude) -- so it is just as logical to use two negatives to intensify negation. ("I said, I don't have no dog!")

3. Why should language pattern like math, anyway? There's no particular reason to believe that it should. For example, you can't get two positive numbers to make a negative in math, but you can get two positives to make a negative in speech. ("Yeah, right.")

4. Plenty of other languages in fact require there to be two elements of negation in order for there to be a "proper" negation. Take French, for example -- the negative is formed by having both "ne" and "pas" around a verb, and that makes the verb negative. ("Je ne sais pas.")

As you can see, there's not a particularly good reason to have the rule against double negatives in English.

Obviously, it's useful to have a standard so that we can have particular styles of writing and speaking -- formal styles vs. informal styles, for example -- but note that the very definition of informal is tied to "not following all the prescriptive rules." We know that using double negatives is "bad" because we've been taught this; by using double negatives, we can signal a less formal style of speech. (This of course is something of an oversimplification in that you could write prescriptive rules for speaking informally . . . we just don't usually).

Anyway, if you can remind yourself that spoken language isn't the same as written language, and that there is a diversity of linguistic patterns in both spoken and written language, perhaps that can help you be more accepting of what your husband says. Celebrate linguistic diversity, don't trample it!

(P.S. I'm a professor of linguistics, so this isn't just an informal opinion.)

And yeah, I know that we should probably have him tested to see if he's dyslexic or if he has another learning disability. I know that it's kind of late in the game (I am really angry that no one in his family addressed this earlier, but that's another story), but he still wants to improve and I'm behind him all the way.

There's no "probably" to it. He needs to go to the doctor.

Wow, thank you, LingScot! I haven't studied linguistics in an official capacity, so I'm not familiar with the terminology. However, the original concept makes a lot of sense. I work with a lot of co-editors and we disagree about edits all the time. I have a lot to learn myself on the subject.

Blah, I'm not expressing myself very well. I KNOW that we need to get him tested. Life just keeps getting in the way...which is why I said that I'm okay with him taking a few years to study while staying at his current job.

Okay, I get it. I'm being a condescending control freak about this! (I'm not saying that lightly, either.) We had a long talk about it last night, as I said, and I am making some changes. I'm going to encourage him, but I won't be pushy about it.

He still wants me to help him out with his work, and I will try to do this in a way that won't frustrate him too much. I don't go over his work with him in person because I WANT to; that's what he wants me to do. I'd be perfectly happy with a red pen and short notes for his applications, but he wants to know the whats/whys/hows of my corrections and he'd rather talk about it than read more notes on a paper. C'est la vie.

Blah, I'm not expressing myself very well. I KNOW that we need to get him tested. Life just keeps getting in the way...which is why I said that I'm okay with him taking a few years to study while staying at his current job.

Why give it a few years? This is clearly something he's interested in improving, and this is something you clearly can't handle, why "wait a few years" to wait for it to get worse. If I thought my kid (because that's how you're treating him) couldn't read, I'd be in a full panic. You keep finding reasons to put him off and new ways to call him stupid. Go to a doctor already.

Life is going to continue to get in the way if that's the excuse for him not seeing a doctor. Life is never going to stop or slow down.

Okay, did you read my original posts at all? WE CAN'T AFFORD IT right now. I didn't say this originally, but we have no insurance at all. Money is really tight and we're both just praying that we won't get sick until we can get coverage.

And excuse me, I really have an issue with you saying that I'm thinking of new ways to call him stupid.

His writing skills are poor and he is being stubborn about dedicating his time to this issue. But I never said that he was stupid. In fact, I made it clear that I was completely aware of this issue before we got married. I also pointed out that we complement each other perfectly, especially intellectually. He notices so many things that I don't and vice versa. That's one of my many reasons for marrying him.

And the part where I said that he is "so smart." Yeah, I just put it there to make me look like a better person. NO, that's what I actually think.

Argh, I get it, I'm being controlling here. I partly posted this thread because I knew that I was doing something wrong and I wanted to hear other opinions. But can you please not put words into my mouth?

I already feel like the next few responses are going to just tell me how condescending and controlling I'm being over and over again. I've really taken a lot of the advice to heart, we had a big talk, and we're moving forward with it.

But I'll leave the thread open in case there is anyone who has been in my shoes and has some advice on this issue.

Thanks, all-

I'm sorry - you said you could not afford a tutoring service. How am I supposed to know that means you cannot afford a doctor as well?

back2dance, I'm actually really sorry (and surprised) that you're receiving some of the replies that you are right now. It's breaking my heart that you're having a hard time finding any compassion and sympathy for your situation, because I don't think there are many people that understand how difficult this must be for both of you.

This is more than just correcting a few verb tenses or pronunciations. To be practically illiterate at his age is incredibly difficult and embarrassing for both of you. To call you intolerant and condescending is unfair.

Obviously, you know that you need to stop correcting him - especially in the heat of an argument. You don't need to be told that over and over again. You came [i[into[/i] this thread knowing that correcting him constantly is wrong.

I'm not sure if I have any advice outside of what you've already tried with him, but you most definitely have my sympathy.

In the meantime (until you can get the funds for a tutor or other help), I would try and focus on his strengths - for your sanity, as well as his. You say he's incredibly smart - focus on this things, and perhaps brainstorm ways to incorporate those strengths into his work and life.

I don't think it's ever a good idea for spouses to be a 'teacher' in a marriage.

Case in point, my brother married a woman from another country. She couldn't speak English at all when they got married. It was somewhat of a non-issue because they spent all of their time in her country.

Then they came here because she was pregnant with their son and my brother wanted him to be born here. Well my brother can be one bossy guy. To this day he does not realize that little quality about himself. And when she got here she tried to learn English and he just went a little bit overboard with correcting her all of the time and of course it happened. One day there was a great Big HUGE AWFUL argument. Because no matter how much she told us all to correct her English so she could learn faster, it just probably felt different when my brother did it because he wasn't just somebody else. He was her other half.

I think it pissed her off that he started to seem like he knew so darned much more than her. Add to that he has an aptitude for languages, I mean the man is an adult and he still absorbs them the way children can. It probably made her feel even worse than she already had to be in a strange country not being able to speak the language of everyone around her. So after that awful argument the rules changed just for a little while until she felt more confident. Everyone else could help her with her English...except for him.

So maybe someone else in his life that's not his wife needs to help him out right now. Also there are free online pre-tests for dyslexia so you might want to have him take one of those to see where he's at. Just google 'Free Dyslexia tests for adults'. Sorry suggesting this if you've already gone this route! Once you know what you're working with it will help whoever works with him know how to proceed from there and what to research to help him out better. But it shouldn't be you.

Marriage is hard enough as it is without adding a teaching (or parental) element into the mix. For the first few months of help, at least, no matter how much he tells you to help him, I think it would be better if he got his help somewhere else so that you don't have to worry about offending him and he doesn't have to worry about looking bad in front of you.

Not only should you not be teaching/correcting him because your married, you are not TRAINED to teach someone with a learning disability. Therefore you're both doomed to get super frustrated and fail if you continue on the current path.

I actually think it is vital to the success of your marriage to straighten this out, AND I think getting this straightened out includes counseling for both of you to give you tools to handle this and other situations that will arise in the marriage. Consider asking for health ins, or money for a doctor for b-day/xmas/wedding present.

OP- I know how you feel. My husband is poor at spelling and grammer. It does embarass me sometimes too (although I am not a good speller myself). Usually he will ask me to read over something for him and I do. It is really hard and dealing with it is harder. I have come to accept that my husband will not change and I can only help him when he needs it.

Po

((((Hugs))))
But try this: Focus on the issue being discussed until it is resolved and acknowledged as such. There will be enough time for correcting the grammar after the first issue is resolved.

I am a technical writer myself, but I find a non-sequitur more upsetting than a grammatical error. A mid-discussion grammatical correction is a red herring up with which I shall not put. Who or what is fooling whom or whatm.

I have learned to chuckle at poor grammar instead of letting it upset me. We have a name for one client who sends us material to put in to readable form. We call him the guy-who-works-at-the-gas-station's brother.