I really enjoyed seeing a few new teams do really well! Although Wheaton and Dynamics were of course great, Crescendo and New Alliance did well also!

Way to go Wheaton for qualifying in 3 events! I loved the "Vampire" routine! It was amazing and it was fun to see Jonathan Burkin in a team.

It was also fun to watch the poms. Modernettes were really good as were the Stepper-ettes. Utopia was good but I think they sort of ripped off another pom routine. I didn't go to Worlds in Belgium but I watched some videos on Youtube and I think Holland did something very similar. They really should have come up with something on their own.

Well it looks like the USA will do great in Switzerland!

Who won the other dance twirl and twirl team events? Did the Dynamics qualify? Thanks for your info!

Hi!
I know the Dynamics did qualify...I believe it was in Jr. Twirl Team. Wheaton qualified in the remaining 3 events. Both teams looked great and I am glad that they will both be able to make the trip to Switzerland!

It's great that they both qualified, and I love both of them!
But I really wish it wasn't always just those 2 teams! Not that they don't deserve it, it's just becoming too predictable. And like I said before, it must be frustrating for the other teams.

It takes years to build a good team, and many years of twirling together. You can't just throw a group of soloists together and have a great team.

I hope the other teams are learning from watching them, and we will soon see a national team competition that's not all about 2 teams.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous that it's the always the same 2 teams that go to worlds! And FloorXpert is right! It has become way too predictable! It's not about "What team will go to worlds?", it's about, "What team will go to worlds, Wheaton or Dynamics?" I coach 3 sports competitively, and I have never have a seen a national/world level of competition where 1 or 2 athletes or team of athletes are so dominant!

It's not that I think they don't deserve to win! They are both incredibly talented and deserve to win! I just think it's a shame that the other teams have allowed them to become so dominant! And for so long!!!

My roommate judged teams this year, and I know she is extremely fair, and judges based on performance and not name. That being said, the outcome is still what it is! I personally spoke to many team coaches who are becoming very frustrated, and say alot of their twirlers no longer want to do teams. That's a shame!

Obviously it's a problem with no apparent solution!

The same two teams dominating is not a problem and there is a solution.

It's kind of ridiculous that team coaches are frustrated about the same two teams winning and that their students don't want to do teams.

Team is a very intricate event. It requires choreography, style, music and coaching. Coaching requires tricks, technique, exchanges. There is so much involved in it. In addition, it takes a relationship between the teammates. You have to know each other and how you will respond and react to a bad exchange, a fall, a drop. It takes months, sometimes years to come up with the perfect combination. You absolutely cannot just grab a bunch of talented solo twirlers and call them a "team." The two that left Dynamics and tried to do this with Crescendo probably found this out.

If you think back, there have been plenty of Wheaton and Dynamic routines that have flopped...all the pieces of what makes a great team routine just didn't come together. It happens. All the factors to making a perfect routine have to be there. And even when they are there, it may not be enough. It becomes up to the judges to select a winner. Wheaton and Dynamics were wonderful this year. I have my own opinion about the results for some of the teams, but that is irrelevant with what I'm writing. Both teams had all the components of championship level team work.

So if other teams want to win, they need to step it up and work on all the pieces of the puzzle.

Well that's not saying much for our coaches, if after all these
years NO ONE has been able to do it!

Watching the teams perform last week, I can honestly say that not one other team could come close to what Wheaton was doing on the floor, not even the Dynamics. There were wonderful teams performing, and many great routines, but there were some teams that, let's face it, should have been performing in the beginner division. On the other hand, there were a few beginner teams that clearly should have been in advanced. I think there needs to be a complete overhaul of the whole team system, and there definitely needs to be more than two competition levels. Maybe an elite level for teams that have made it to Worlds, or an intermediate level for teams that aren't quite ready for advanced, but are definitely not beginners.

Yes, I agree. Something needs to be done. And you are right, there were many teams in the beginner team divisions that clearly
were not beginners. However, I think this is done out of fear of competing against Wheaton & Dynamics, since they are so obviously unbeatable.

While I Kind of like the idea of an "Elite" division for teams, I'm afraid it would end up being only 2-3 teams. Not sure if that would actually solve the problem, or make it worse!

Baton2Hiphop wrote:

While I Kind of like the idea of an "Elite" division for teams, I'm afraid it would end up being only 2-3 teams. Not sure if that would actually solve the problem, or make it worse!

But if you think about it, there are 2 or 3, maybe 4 at the most, who are always at the top. Remove them from the advanced division, and other teams will have a chance to compete with the possibility of winning at their true level. As someone else said, a lot of teams compete as beginners who shouldn't be, so they have a chance to win. I wonder how many so-called beginner teams were true beginners. There's no verification system on the part of NBTA, so I bet there were more than one who should have been entered in advanced.

Also, someone mentioned it doesn't speak well of coaches who have never been able to achieve the level of twirling that Wheaton does with their teams. I know for a fact that many teams in this part of the country lose twirlers to Wheaton as they progress, because of their reputation. Therefore, a lot of groups never get the chance to build their team to that level.

I could not believe my eyes when I saw the Utopia routine. It was almost an exact copy of the Holland/Netherlands pom routine at the last Worlds competition. If you go to You Tube and search Netherlands Pom Ghent you will see it. Shame on you Utopia!

I wasn't going to respond to this post, as I noticed most people were letting the initial statement go. However, it is time for me to say something in defense of not only myself, but the young ladies that are proud to call themselves Utopia Girls.

I am the head coach of Utopia and have visited this community board in the past to stay current on trends and topics and to offer suggestions to others when requested. A COMMUNITY BOARD should not be throwing around loose and hurtful accusations. What does one possibly have to gain by insulting the decisions of another? Unless you were directly harmed or affected, I see no reason to be so cruel. No one consulted me, the choreographer of this routine; so, those speaking on this board have no idea where the inspiration for this routine originated.

As an adult, I can shake this off without it bothering me. Statements made without factual support mean nothing. However, my KIDS are reading this garbage; and, as a result, it could put a damper on and take away from their hard work and dedication. Shame on YOU for doing that.

I have seen the video; and while the "stewardess" theme is the same, the concept is different - as is the technique, choreography, and execution. I realize nobody actually asked from where I drew my inspiration, but I will glady share now.

FLIGHT 323 was created in memory of my father. His passing in 2008 completely changed my life AND my approach to coaching. Every routine I have created since then has contained something in his honor. If using a telephone keypad, 323 spells DAD. Our opening song, "I Believe I Can Fly" was a music selection that I used in our BELIEVE routine that I created during his battle with cancer. The second song, "Cup Of Life" by Ricky Martin, was used in our STOPLIGHT routine. I was able to incorporate an original 8-count from that routine into this one. I wanted to use "Jai Ho" ever since hearing it on SYTYCD. I chose my city of Mumbai, India to work with it and the current trend of Bollywood. Incorporating the "pom pictures" was something I knew we had to do to compete with the larger teams at AYOP.

There is no denying the routines are similar, but could we take a step back please? Utopia competed with a MUSIC mix at AYOP in 2009. Sue's Stepperettes competed with a MUSIC mix this year. Although I did not watch thoroughly (I didn't realize I would have to defend my creativity post-competition), I believe their routine started with the exact same song selection as my mix did three years ago. Even so, I do not think they "ripped off" this theme idea. I would never accuse them of doing so.

In addition, we did a VAMPIRE themed routine and it can be found on YouTube, as well. Should I assume that the VAMPIRE routines done this year at AYOP were actually thieves of my routine? That is just ridiculous.

I was going to do a nerd themed routine for junior dance and even commented to my girls that I was glad I didn't for all of the nerd routines I saw last week. Had we actually gone through with NERDS I suppose I would have been accused of copying that, too.

How many Michael Jackson, Dr. Suess, and Grease routines do we see year after year after year? I will NEVER admit that I "ripped off" anything, but really; if you think you can do a theme better than you've seen it before, why not do it? Haven't you ever seen something and thought you could do it better?

I have seen bits of my choreography used in routines from other teams. My kids have even been bothered by it in the past; but, I calm them by saying, "Imitation is the greatest form of flattery."

I could go on and on, but I would really just rather put an end to this madness. Twirlgirl25 (who states she is a Stepperette mom in a post made to another thread) and NBTAjudge... you are adults absolutely entitled to your own opinions. I know I have plenty of my own. Focus on what you produce and, if done well, you shouldn't have to worry about what others are doing.

Honestly, I don't have time to scour the Internet for theme ideas. (This response has already wasted time I don't have.) The day I have to do so to find ideas for a theme or choreography is the day I need to hang it up.

I stand strong and am confident in where my idea originated and extremely proud of the time and effort put forth by my young ladies to execute it with grace, power, and pride. Think whatever you like; nothing will ever take away our experiences we had as a team performing FLIGHT 323 or how it felt seeing something put together in honor of my father come to fruition.

One more thing... thanks so much for even finding us important enough to mention. There is no such thing as bad publicity, right?!

I don't think I agree with an Elite division. Where do you draw the line. Some would then argue an elite division for individuals. I think people need to just work harder. A lot of unknown twirlers came out this year and placed very well. My only suggestion would be for maybe a 20 plus division.

Wheaton and Dynamics will continue to dominate until other teams can catch up. Period. They have excellent coaches, choreography, and style. It is unfortunate that girls in the area leave their own teams in order to join a team, not that wins necessarily, but a team where they are assured to grow in their twirling skills. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If you want to excel, go where that will happen. Isn't that what people do in the workplace. A team such as Wheaton and Dynamics isn't for everyone...their practice schedule has to be rigorous, not to mention the money probably.

Those two teams deserve to be on top. Some day, so will another. Even the best of the best gets knocked down. I don't agree with the junior dance twirl win...I think Wheaton was wonderful in that category, but I think Dynamics was better. I liked the routine, it was fun, it was more "junior". That's my two cents.

The bottom line is there is lots wrong with NBTA. It needs an overhaul in many areas. But you can't overhaul a specific team or twirler because they are not winning or because others dominate...only the team or twirler can overhaul that.

Just like was said in the long post above, I just browse these boards to see what's going on in the twirling world. There really isn't anywhere else I've found that keeps up with twirling topics. If you wanted to know about basketball, there are plenty of boards for that! I never really thought I needed an account until I read this last post. The sad part about all of this is the kids are getting hurt here. I see it on basketball boards - parents saying things to keep their kids on top. Everyone wants to be the best. It isn't about the parents - we do this for our children.

I don't have much twirling background - only what I have learned from being a part of this with my daughter. I was not at the team finals that you are all talking about, but we were at the competition on Monday night for dance twirl and poms. We saw Utopia and many other fantastic pom teams. Utopia's routine and Modernettes routine gave me goosebumps! It made my daughter want to explore poms and maybe see what it has to offer. I feel like if my kid loves it, it doesn't matter who had the idea first. And arguing about it and pointing fingers really seems sort of silly. Good for the coach to stick up for her students. And the 323 story is very touching and creative in itself. Good luck to you and keep your head high.

I don't think I agree with an Elite division. Where do you draw the line. Some would then argue an elite division for individuals. I think people need to just work harder. A lot of unknown twirlers came out this year and placed very well. My only suggestion would be for maybe a 20 plus division.

Wheaton and Dynamics will continue to dominate until other teams can catch up. Period. They have excellent coaches, choreography, and style. It is unfortunate that girls in the area leave their own teams in order to join a team, not that wins necessarily, but a team where they are assured to grow in their twirling skills. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If you want to excel, go where that will happen. Isn't that what people do in the workplace. A team such as Wheaton and Dynamics isn't for everyone...their practice schedule has to be rigorous, not to mention the money probably.

Those two teams deserve to be on top. Some day, so will another. Even the best of the best gets knocked down. I don't agree with the junior dance twirl win...I think Wheaton was wonderful in that category, but I think Dynamics was better. I liked the routine, it was fun, it was more "junior". That's my two cents.

The bottom line is there is lots wrong with NBTA. It needs an overhaul in many areas. But you can't overhaul a specific team or twirler because they are not winning or because others dominate...only the team or twirler can overhaul that.

As I said before, there is something seriously wrong with a
sport that has an event that is so predictable and dominant on a national level.

I am a coach of 3 sports, and baton is the only one with this type of issue.

And the fact that the other teams are so frustrated that they are
afraid to even compete in the advanced divisIon, does NOTHING good for twirling.

It just creates more frustration for the teams that are truly beginner.

There are plenty of sports in the Olympics that are dominated by one country or another. Long distance running is the first sport that comes to mind.

Wheaton and the Dynamics have found the recipe for success. It took a lot of time and hard work to get there. They have been around for years perfecting their methods of training. We all need to rise to their level and hope that with time we will be just as great as they are. I find that to be very motivating. I have been watching these teams since 1989 and I'm sure they've been around even longer than that. I commend them for sticking around all these years. Just keeping a team together is hard enough let alone being a successful team.

All we can do is keep practicing. Success doesn't happen over night.

In regard to toedancer1:

You know, there really are no original ideas. Everyone is watching and inspired by everyone else. As you mention, Grease, Michael Jackson, nerd themes, etc... it's all been done before, and will be done again.

A couple of years ago, I had my dance team use the song "Holding out for a Hero" figuring there was no chance anyone else would, and two other teams completely unrelated to us did. And anyone remember the Aladdin show corp fiasco back when that movie came out?

So what if somebody saw a video of another routine, and felt it was similar to yours? It probably was, but that really means nothing, unless there really was a direct steal. I saw your routine, but haven't seen the Holland pom, so I have no idea. But I do remember a flag team from Holland that did a similar theme at one of the first worlds... so maybe it's really Holland ripping off of themselves.

I wouldn't get a stomachache over whether Utopia stole from Holland when I am not sure how much Holland has stolen from the US teams, particularly the Modernettes or the Jazz Dolls--not sure which team was winning at the time, but I think it was the Jazz Doll routine with the wigs. Back in 1997 (at least 90% sure it was '97), some of them were over here. We gave two of them a ride to AYOP from the hotel at the request of the front desk people. They were from out of the country, so my mom gladly obliged. According to them, they were going to video our pom pon team at the Big Show and steal it for their coach--that's what they said during the car ride we kindly gave them. I am pretty sure it was Sabina and Chantel, but that was several years ago so my memory may be shaky on the names.

You never know who will still be involved in baton years later:):) I was just a hard working, awkward-looking intermediate ten year old, but they sure made an impression. You can say I'm making it up. My mom and sister were in that van with me; and I have a very, very, disgustingly good memory if it's baton related (not the best twirler out there, but I do love it). I thought we should say something, but my mom's a very classy lady. She just rolled her eyes. We were totally unrelated to any power teams or individuals, just people who enjoyed baton and AYOP.

Sorry for even bringing it up, but there's really no room for doubt on what others have been saying on the matter.

Keep on keeping on and try to have fun regardless of the circumstances!

Twirlinaround, I'd like to see 20+ at all NBTA contests. I would have aged out under the old rules as of September because I am 25. I substitute teach kids who are 16-18 and have assisted in a college class of kids who are 18 and 19. Hypothetically, I could substitute teach or apply to teach in the district I went to school in. I could have these twirlers in class and then compete with them on the weekend. That just seems awkward. I like baton and the challenging pursuit of excellence, but high school kids are still high school kids with all that high school brings. I have been twirling seven more years than the girl of them who has been twirling the longest and was learning to construct my own routines before she was learning to scoop in the chocolate and scoop in the vanilla, and I moved into advanced when I twirled 11--Could you say that's just a little bit of a discrepancy in time to develop, learn, and perfect material?

Point well-taken, Mr. Nakauchi. You are awesome, and someone like you really could have helped someone like me with movement. I've seen the footage that's been posted. You had the craziest, wackiest show twirls; you have a very fun individual style, and those teams are stunning with excellent even superior dance skill by all members--amazing to see.

I wouldn't and couldn't try to copycat you or anyone else for that matter. I can't even say I have that much to add to the conversation footage wise--my movement ability is somewhat dreadful so it'd be an eye sore plus I'm very plus sized right now, but I am still working mainly to lose weight and because I love baton. It would generally result in near disaster if I even fathomed copying you or many people because I don't have that kind of movement ability--wish I did. Despite ballet class, it's just not there yet. I think you are trying to say we should all strive for unique individual or team identity even if themes are similar. You can take but what you've taken probably won't be as intriguing for quite some time, if ever. The same material looks entirely different on different people.

Much respect to everyone and good luck. Things bother me sometimes, so I apologize for saying anything at all.

This has become an interesting post.
I didn't really intend for it to be a discussion about pom but I did bring it up in my original post. I probably should not have used the term "ripped off" because as was posted above there really are very few completely original themes... I apologize for the tone of my post.

I'd like to comment on the Wheaton/Dynamics issue. I did some research, and found out that in 1996, another team DID qualify for Worlds. Name of the team was "All Stars", and they were also from Maryland. And they also won over 30 National DT/Team titles in the late 80's early 90's. They retired after worlds, but my point is, that it is possible.

Those 3 teams battled at nationals for years. So it's not "impossible" to get to the Wheaton/Dynamic level, it just takes alot of hard work. And very, very, dedicated coaches. Both of those teams practice every weekday in the summer leading up to Nationals. Do the other teams do that? It's imperative that teams put in the hours, to get the unison & uniformity that makes a great team.

It also takes a good choreographer. Not all coaches are choreograhers. Wheaton's coach also choreographs, Dynamics does not. Whatever works. Juat find out what works for you, and work hard!

I remember that year! 1995 Nationals. when Wheaton won Sr Dance Twirl & All Stars won Sr. Twirl Team. Dynamics got 3rd in both divisions, the other two flip flopped 1st/2nd. But the Dynamics were so upset about the Dance Twirl results, that they ended up allowing them to go to Worlds to do a performance! NO ONE TALKS ABOUT IT... but apparently they had some issues with the judging in the dance twirl division.

Most people felt like allowing them to go and perform was a real slap in the face to Wheaton. But there were many who felt like Dynamics were the better team & got ripped off.

It was an interesting year for teams!