Now that we're a month removed from AYOP and everyone once again has their wits about them and can hopefully think rationally, I wanted to talk about modeling.

I'm sure the topic has been done on here before, but every hot topic deserves another look.

I, as usual, have very strong thoughts about modeling. What are yours? Please share...

Modeling has kept my daughter from top-10 MMoA overall at least twice over the years (and also has helped her get into the top-10 a few times, too). Not sure what Modeling has to do with a athletics BUT is the pursuit of the MMoA title an athletic title, or something else (which seems to also be about ambassadorship)? There is most definately a sense of poise that the girls develop over time. Also, don't you enter knowing what the format for success is?

That all said, I prefer the AAU and Congresional Cup all-around titles - solo, 2B, and 3B or rhythmic. Success with those in combination, to me, is a pure athletic accomplishment.

It is SOOOOOOO subjective! It's a nightmare trying to explain to parents why their kid didn't win. Because I never know! They place 2nd and the comment is "move your arms more". Then the next competition theres a different judge and the girl moves her arms, and comes in last and first place goes to the girl who kept them tight by her side.

I tell my kids up front that I can give them the pattern and teach them what various judges have taught me they are looking for, but to remember it is so subjective that you really just never know. Some times a simple pattern wins, others is the most complex.

I understand the purpose of it to creatve poise and confidence for twirlers who are going to be an ambassador to the sport. But I think they should just change it to pass/fail. LOL!

Personally, I think modeling should be done away with. It's not that it's a bad thing, it's just that it really has nothing to do with twirling. If a girl wants to model, let her do modeling competitions... there are plenty of them around.

Do a 2-3 question interview in costume, and be done with it. Modeling is totally holding back NBTA, as far as I'm concerned.

That said, it's probably never going to happen, either.

I don't want to get into all the things holding back twirling in general and the NBTA in particular, but yeah, modelling's one of 'em. It has no place in the sport. If you want to be taken seriously as athletes, then BE serious. I feel the same about what I call the "grinning idiot syndrome." Who cares if you smile while you're twirling? It's serious business. Act like it.

I am curious, just what do some of you think modeling is "holding the NBTA "back" from exactly? Growth? National media attention? The Olympics? What is it that you want?
The NBTA rules for solo state the general mission statement for Miss Majorette of America pageants. "Pageant with a purpose"..."living monument to the beauty, talents and dedication of majorettes every where." I think that MOM of A does exactly what it is supposed to do.Yes, it is a pageant, which means some measure of appearance.

The nice thing about NBTA is that there are other national (and international) levels for title competitions. As with any sport or activity there are some that will prevail as the champions.

In my opinion, there is an inherent problem with the scoring system in the NBTA mainly being the lack of an Elite division. It is what it is.
But that my dears, is another conversation.

BTW-Flash Mob next year at AYOP? Who's in?

DM

Modeling has outlived its usefulness. I get the whole pageantry thing, but no pageant is really "old school" anymore. The dresses are sleazier, the bathing suits are skimpier, and just look at Toddlers and Tiaras. I cringe whenever I explain modeling to people.

Some problems with modeling are:
1. Dresses are a pain in the, well, you know. They are expensive. The expense probably keeps many from doing it or at least placing well because their dresses aren't up to par. So esentially you're being judged on how much money your parents can spend.
2. Kids are being judged on a look. If poise and grace is the purpose, then what's wrong with Strut. If you can't stand up straigt, walk nice, and keep your balance, then chances are you can't strut well. I think it's wrong that kids end up getting judged for how cute or pretty they are. Some age groups are at critical stages of development and a 7 year old looks a lot different than a 9 (10) year old, or a 13 from a 15 (16) year old.
3. Someone mentioned the make or break of MMofA...very true. I think the senior division had a girl who got 2nd and second to last. What? That is nuts. That right there suggests the overwhelming subjectivity of modeling.

Overall, I think modeling just flat out sends the wrong message to kids. Having to explain that the cute little blond with chubby cheeks won modeling while another kid wins or places high in the actual twirling events and then loses because she got 20th in modeling for having too few stones and a zit on her face is terrible for self image. AYOP is America's Youth on Parade...well parade them for their talents and determination to excell at their sport.

I feel the same about interview. I think interview is a great skill and will benefit every twirler in the future, however, once those judges get a certain look in front of them, it may not matter how a kid speaks. Besides, again, there is a vast difference between 7 and 9 and 13 and 15. Let them be kids and mature at their own pace. Don't have 5 year olds rehearse an answer they wouldn't naturally say in a normal conversation. Little kids don't answer in complete sentences - that's normal - so don't judge them on what they aren't able to do yet.

Congressional Cup has got a good thing going with the all-around competition. Why not adopt that for MMofA? Maybe swap rhythmic for strut because rhythmic would take a long time. And if MMofA has to change its name to All-Around American Champion well then so be it. That would look cool on the back of a jacket! There is a time for change and I think it's now. Modeling has to go. Let twirling be about twirling - athleticism and artistry, not glitz and glam.

I must agree, and love the idea of "All-Around American Champion". I think 2012 would be the perfect time to change over to Solo, Strut, and 2-baton as your 3-part. Hopefully someone who makes those decisions in NBTA, or who can atleast bring it up for a vote reads this and takes it to a meeting..we would all appreciate the change!

I doubt NBTA will change what works for them. It was a great day back in the Day when USTA eliminated its pageant, and it was 1/4 twirl, strut, modeling and interview.
I have even gotten overwhelmed assisting young ladies with Junior Miss which is called something else now, the face that unless they have a 30 on ACT they cant crack the top at a state pageant. And that's kind of modeling in reverse.

Twirltacular also offers a championship with solo, two baton and showtwirl. They also offer regular Miss Majorette type of events. They are in the south.

Top twirlers are great athletes. Kudos to the ones who mesh in the modeling and get the MM titles too.

I don't know that modeling is in fact "working for them". I wonder how many people are either turned off by it or who don't do pageant because of the cost. As for kudos, hmmm. Yes, there are those who can swing all three parts and place well or win, however that doesn't change the superficiality of what modeling is. Also, those who place well or win a strut or a solo may never win because someone with only modeling skills who places far down in the other two events messes up all the scoring. Not trying to whine and say that's not fair but it's got to be frustrating. You've got kids working their tails off only to end up 5th or down because of modeling and those who place up there in modeling and low on everything else still end up in your bottom half. So just because someone can halfway stay consistent in placements doesn't necessarily mean they deserve to be the winner...they just do on paper. My point is that modeling can really tip the scale and that doesn't seem very fair. Modeling is worlds different than twirling a baton and all that goes into it, so it just needs to go.

How will it ever get changed though? A proposal at a meeting doesn't seem like enough. A couple people will agree and the rest will just sit there silent. And then tradition will win out. It seems like there should be a petition...something from the contestants or parents/coaches, or both. Thoughts???

If you dread it, don't enter it.

good point. Plus I remember when it was 1/3 1/3 1/3. Some pageants of baton outfits have modeling, interview, solo and strut at a quarter each.

So, If you enter a Miss Majorette title with modeling and or modeling and interview, you know that that is a part of the scoring.

"If you dread it, don't enter it" - it's not that simple. That is a good point, and sure, if someone hates it that bad, then don't do it. But it's more than that.

It's an event that no longer has a place in what twirling has evolved to be. Society changes, and not always for the better. I think that modeling holds the sport back. I think modeling promotes a bad message. I think modeling completely offsets the balance of the 3-part...there is nothing athletic about modeling, and if twirling is a sport, modeling has no place.

Just not entering is not the solution to something that needs fixing.

I have seen modeling turn off new baton moms. Basic strut did too despite the fact the brother was free to do soccer--"Seven dollars just to walk around in a square. The girls looked like they were in a beauty pageant earlier." I was there to say, "You can be as involved in baton as you want to be. That's the great thing about it. Your daughter can take it as far as she wants." Someone's gotta be the buffer in those situations. I'm real down to earth in my appearance and believe in promoting baton at the grassroots level.

As for modeling, I don't think I agree it should be abolished. At AYOP 2007, sixty-some girls were entered in All-American Girl Modeling 10-12. Those aren't exactly low numbers. If so many parents pay to enter their girls in a modeling contest, that means that many competing at nationals enjoy modeling. Modeling really isn't about the blonde who won; it's more about walking with poise and confidence. I DO dread it, so I don't enter it. There's too much I love about baton to deal with aspects I don't enjoy. BUT, like I said, there are twirlers out there who adore modeling the way I adore two and three baton.

i see all sides. basic strut and to a point, modeling get them first on the floor. Is it a child that loves competition adn puts a solo together then. Or is it stage fright and they need to not enter until they conquor that.

Again, MM used to be 1-3 at least now its 1/5.

1) There continue to be USTA competitions which DO hold modeling events.

2) NBTA has National Championship events for individual twirling events which allow the top winners to move on to world championships. MMOA does not have that option so right there it would seem clear that there is a distinction. Given this, why aren't more people irritated that pom and flag corps can attend a world twirling championship? (don't get mad at me if you like these events, I'm not complaining about them, just using them for arguments sake)

3) Many (most?) of the modelers I see in the older divisions use their gowns for proms and beauty/scholarship pageants. They are getting their monies worth.

4) There are past MMOA winners (of all divisions) who have not been attractive, or had good bodies (not even athletic bodies in some cases) so that is not a requirement to be successful in modeling or MMOA.

5) As already mentioned, the modeling portion carries half the weight of the other two events. And of that, the interview is a component (which it sounds like some people support even if they don't like the modeling).

If like hoop twirling, people stopped entering modeling events in significant numbers, contest directors would be more likely to eliminate those events. I don't see the demand going down any time in the near future.

As for events like rhythmic twirl and 3 baton (and show twirl for that matter) being better twirling events....I don't see them as significant - too few rhythmic twirls have contact material and other components integrated, except for a few big tricks. 3-baton is juggling -- particularly the way the routines in NBTA are constructed. And show twirl is so much more "show" and so little "twirl" that an outsider watching at say a basketball halftime wouldn't get a good representation of what twirling is about. Mind you, the TOP TWIRLERS in these events do do so successfully, as do the top modelers. But so many of the others just can't manage it.

So, if someone who isn't going to be a national champion twirler, strutter or two baton twirler, sets her mind to the Miss Majorette of America, what is the harm?

And it is just as likely that modeling turns many moms and daughters ON TO TWIRLING as it turns some off to it.

So while NBTA is not a democracy where we get an official vote on things like this, view it as a business and vote with your dollars if you don't like it. I for one like the modeling component. It is a huge asset in twirlers successfully competing for college twirling positions, and jobs, and gaining scholarship money through Miss America pageants (for which they are frequently better prepared than other young women without pageant experience).

There's something for everyone in NBTA baton. Some events need more development, but that's just a challenge for improvement.

I'll freely admit that I couldn't have made pageant growing up if I had tried. I was advanced solo, novice x-strut, and novice modeling for a long time. I really did try at all events; modeling and x-strut just didn't suit me well. I liked baton, so I worked on the events I enjoyed. I liked other events because they were more natural to me, so I focused on them. Despite my inadequacy at two of the pageant events, I managed to have a very decent, very enjoyable, twirling career.