What do you mean with "amazing"? Is it some kind of sarcasm?
Putting an 8 year old on pointe will cripple her feet and the whole performance is nothing more than circus, like every video of this "school".
It's a beautiful role that should be danced by somebody who has the maturity to dance it. This is an insult to the serious art of ballet and a very sad thing to see, because the teachers of this school waste the talent of their students by teaching them circus tricks instead of proper technique. This is very obvious when you compare old videos with new ones: The students doesn't improve, they turn all like a million pirouettes, but they don't have clean technique and good artistry.
Are you a studio owner who teaches ballet? Sorry, but you should totally see that and it makes me nervous that you find this video amazing.

Here is a link to the discussion: www.dance.net . . .

Btw, when I tried to post a comment on You Tube about this particular young girl dancing a story about love and passion on pointe I was blocked... Guess it was a little bit more critical than the usual wows they receive. It's strange how so many people are just ignorant to what's happening there.

Half the time she's not on her boxes. She has potential, but she's not strong enough to be en pointe.

Well sure she's good, but way too young to be en pointe! Her feet are going to be messed up and all crippled! Poor girl, her teacher should know better!

I'm not sure what the point is of posting these videos. These are obviously not the kids from MSD_DanceStudio's school. Clearly, they have better traning, and study a lot more intensely as well.

Is the purpose of this thread to justify to the world that it's OK and right to put 8-year-old children en pointe? Sorry, we've had that discussion before. No amount of "amazing" video footage will address the fundamental biological concern of this practice --- that it can deform and cripple for life.

As for the school itself:
balletschool.ru . . .

Clearly, they're selling themselves to pushy stage moms in their ability to train exceptionally young children. Why should we find that appealing at all? Dance training is for a lifetime. Even if going en pointe at age 8 were safe, being a dancer (or any human being) requires a range of experiences beyond the dance studio. When will these kids get that, if they're in a dance studio 30-60 hours per week? Whether or not they burn out by age 16, I question whether they will be able to function in the world by age 20. I've seen too many dancers coming out of the American system who are barely able to do this as it is.

I'm sorry, this school has clearly pushed already extreme practices further to the extreme. Not one reputable school supports their practice of beginning intensive ballet training at age 5 and having kids dance Swan Lake (en pointe) by age 8. Not even their Russian peers such as the Vaganova Academy. Pushy stage moms beware.

I already commented on the previous thread

Dancing_EMT wrote:

She has potential, but she's not strong enough to be en pointe.

And it'll be an absolute pity when she's old enough to truly fulfill that potential and she's had to retire from dancing due to the serious injuries she incurred because of doing pointe at such a young age :-/

I wish parents would realize that pushing their children THIS HARD is only going to ruin their chances of having a successful dance career when it'll really count.

And it'll be an absolute pity when she's old enough to truly fulfill that potential and she's had to retire from dancing due to the serious injuries she incurred because of doing pointe at such a young age :-/

I agree, it's a bad idea. But to be fair, I don't think we should overstate the risks just as a scare tactic. I know someone who says she did 32 fouettes en pointe at age 6, and lived to tell about it (and have a great ballet career). Maybe her feet were deformed by the experience, may be not, I don't know.

I look at it like smoking. Smoking is a really bad idea. But we can't tell our kids "if you smoke you'll get lung cancer" --- because some people smoke all their lives and don't get lung cancer. But that doesn't make smoking a good idea.

wow, some of you are way too critical about things and i've seen all of their videos, down to actually watching their technique class and it is superior work. They have students that grew up in their studio that are 16 years of age now and still dancing beautifully on pointe. It reminds me of my russian training and no i don't think its ok for an 8 year to be on pointe but this child started pointe at 6 and for her to perform a pas de deux (for 8 years of age) was amazing. I've seen many professional ballets and even they dont perform fully on their block or their arms are wrong or their not pulled or they dont have great extensions or flexibility.
The children at their studio probably take dance for several hours everyday. Everybody's teaching methods are different but it doesn't make them wrong. I myself started pointe at 9 1/2 along with others who were the same in age to 11 years of age and my instructor was a student and performer at the leningrad kirov institute and then traveled with the moscow ballet for years. My feet are fine and so are theirs, the studio i came from is still in business, doesn't have any bad reviews from students feet being destroyed, and have students who are dancing in the new york city ballet, some are at juilliard, alvin ailey and other prestigious ballet companies. So, just because someone has one way of doing things doesn't mean its horrible and the whole world is gonna end in ballet because a young child dances beautifully on pointe. It'd be different if she was all over the place, having difficulty performing moves or her placement is completely off.
I find it funny when I see people state "she's not strong enough to be on pointe" especially if the person is a beginner on pointe. When I hear that, I think of someone dancing en pointe with their knees bent, sinking into their shoes and not pulling up, arm placement is off, no turn out whatsoever but this child doesn't have those issues. It's like people expect a person to just put on pointe shoes and be perfect, you still have to work through out the years. Outside of the fact that she is 8 en pointe, I find this child to be exceptionally talented and gifted, and yes, I do find it amazing for her age.

Everyone has their own opinions and beliefs, which is fine, but people shouldn't shoot down others just because they feel their beliefs is right. That's probably why people don't like to post videos because they feel they'll get judged.

Anyway, this is a video of this child at 7 and another little girl age 8 performing an adagio developpe at the barre.
youtu.be . . .

Those videos make me sad. I see the same kids at the studio multiple times and week and it's easy to get caught up in the better, bigger, faster mentality because you get enormously talented children and want to pull out and develop their potential. Then I have to stop and remember that these same kids go home and still play with dolls and ride their bikes and cry when they scrape their knee. So while it is remarkable to see young prodigies, it also make me sad because I wonder how much of their childhood they are forfeiting in order to so proficient. I do sincerely hope that being featured so young isn't going to cause them issues later when the training balances out and they have real competition. I hope they don't get big heads and diva attitudes, I hope they don't end up harming their bodies, I hope they keep their passion and don't burn out before they are actually capable of a real career. But these videos make me sad for the dancers, I just hope they are getting to enjoy their childhood as well.

I agree with MSD, picking at this kid's technique isn't really fair. It really is true, you can always find something wrong with peoples' pointe technique. And her technique is far from horrible. She is obviously very talented, a dance student that any teacher would want to work with. And just because she's a child prodigy doesn't mean that something bad will happen to her. We all loved Michael Jackson too.

Nor is it really fair to compare this performance (an unfinished product, since this IS a child) to a professional performance (a finished product, ready for public viewing).

BUT...

I myself started pointe at 9 1/2 along with others who were the same in age to 11 years of age and my instructor was a student and performer at the leningrad kirov institute and then traveled with the moscow ballet for years. My feet are fine and so are theirs, the studio i came from is still in business

As I said above, this is like saying "I smoke and I didn't get lung cancer, so I guess this lung cancer thing is all a scare." Not to mention that age 6 (when this kid started en pointe) is actually 3 years YOUNGER than the age 9 that MSD started en pointe. Even if age 9 is OK, don't you think that age 6 might be a little too young? Where does it stop? I think my 3-year-old is ready for pointe shoes!

See here for a different perspective:

Tamara Toumanova was one of the "Baby Ballerinas", child prodigies who were world famous during the 1930's, dancing professionally by the time she was 13. She said she regretted being put on pointe too early, as it caused endless foot pain and foot problems in later life.

marisawright.hubpages.com . . .

We've seen them....All of them, they've all been posted here before.

There is plenty of anatomical evidence that this is not safe. Until a childs growth plates have closed and their bones have started to ossify sufficiently it isn't safe to teach pointe. This is why most teachers now insist on foot and ankle Xrays before they allow any dancers on pointe.

My teachers were put on pointe at the age of six, people thought it looked cute but this was back in the days of the Ark and their teachers didn't have the benefit of the anatomical knowledge we now have. They didn't put me on pointe at the age of six just because they were, they read the new information, understood it and took notice of it, I went on pointe at the still young age of eleven but I was in a professional program and dancing every day.

They could have stuck their heads in the sand and said that they would do it this way because that's how it's always been done, but if that was the case we would still be putting kids in stocks to improve their turnout and we know that doesn't work.

A good teacher takes notice of what's happening in the fields that are related to dance, especially those of child development, anatomy and physiology, if you're still putting your students on pointe at the age of six then you're ignoring the advise from the professionals in all of those fields.

Well done you!

If a kid has talent and interest, I don't think there's anything wrong with that child pursuing that interest, even if most other kids that age are playing with dolls. Our lives have been enriched by numerous child prodigies.

But child prodigies have to (eventually) grow into mature adult artists. And too many of them fall by the wayside / don't make it on that journey. A large part of the problem, I believe, is a culture that exploits these children, rather than giving them the grounding they need to mature as artists. Michael Jackson didn't have to die young. Children are so easy to exploit, and there is so much temptation with child prodigies.

In this case, it looks like the school is exploiting this very talented student in order to build up its own reputation. The implication is "send your kid to our school, and SHE might be doing Black Swan at age 9 as well." What they don't tell you of course, but you can see from the pictures, is that MOST of the kids at their school are doing swan corps at age 9. Are those students getting enough attention, or is it all going to their one extra-talented student?

I would like to see a school build its reputation on what it does for its TYPICAL student, not how it handles its prodigies. Anyone can teach a child prodigy, they are typically self-teaching. If the school is good for its typical student, it should have no need to exploit child prodigies.

I don't think putting a child on pointe at 6 is ok, considering at age 6 most children are not mature or focused enough to dance on pointe. I teach by the vaganova syllabus, so the majority of my students can't start beginner pointe till age 10 or 11 and spend 15min at the end of class in their pointe shoes the first year or two and no performance en pointe until the 2nd year and everything is very basic. I've had an exceptional student start before age 10 but I sent her to the doctor first to get checked and said it was ok, since she only spent 15min twice a week on pointe.

Last night TMC (Turner Classic Movies) had a 'Night at the Ballet' series of films, one of which was 'The Unfinished Dance' featuring Margaret O'Brien. I stayed up til one in the morning watching this film!

Lol, I have a point: In the film there are tons of little girls en pointe. None of them look to be over ten years old. In one particularly harrowing audition scene, there is even a tiny little girl, she doesn't look to be over four years old, dancing en pointe. I could barely watch as she fumbled and fell off pointe and kept twisting her ankles. Yikes!

Btw, it's a great ballet movie, you would all enjoy it, though the ballet technique is quite horrible, even for 1947 standards...

Anyway, when I compare what I saw in the film with what I saw this Lada girl doing, well it is night and day. She looks quite solid, has good feet, she really is quite amazing.

I'm not advocating to put six and eight year old en pointe! But it is interesting to me the cultural differences between the country she is studying in and the expectations of children there and the responses here which I gather to be mostly from the U.S. and Europe. Maybe they don't consider the hours required as missing out on childhood? Our concept of childhood as a distinct and special time filled with imagination and play is not necessarily the norm the world over. Just wondering aloud about that.

Maybe they don't consider the hours required as missing out on childhood? Our concept of childhood as a distinct and special time filled with imagination and play is not necessarily the norm the world over. Just wondering aloud about that.

They have a different system set up to fund and develop ballet. Dancers (who graduate) can expect a secure and stable existence within the dance world. In Soviet Russia, it was a cut above normal Soviet life. Dancers who are cut from the schools go do something else. So it makes sense, if you're in dance school, to focus on nothing but dance from as early an age as possible.

American dancers need to develop a much broader variety of life skills in order to survive. There is no one system telling students to leave ballet school, creating a large degree of uncertainty about even WHETHER there will be a dance career until (usually) about age 18-20. Aspiring dancers rationally focus on developing a realistic plan B, since that will become plan A for most of them. Even for those who get hired, life as a dancer is a cut BELOW typical middle-class American life --- constant struggle and material deprivation, and poor (or no) retirement benefits. Dance careers are short and can end suddenly. At which point that plan B needs to come into play.

I don't see dancer childhood necessarily as some idyllic time spent playing with dolls. I do see it as a necessary part of becoming the kind of person who can deal with the realities of the professional dance world in America.

Speaking of the dangers of child prodigies who do NOT become mature, stable adults... I would put Michael Jackson as exhibit A. Extremely talented, well-loved from a young age (and still today, RIP). But he was REALLY BAD with managing money, and he did some really dumb things that almost got him locked away for years. And then he did more dumb things that cost him his life. Somewhere along the line, he never managed to pick up the kind of life skills most of us take for granted.

When you look at what happened to the child stars of last decade, it's heartbreaking to see how many did NOT make it to become mature, adult artists. It's never because they weren't good at what they did, it's always these other life skills issues.

I agree she is quite talented, but I worry for her. I reminds me a bit of child actors. Sure, some go on to be well adjusted, successful adults, but the majority burn out by their teen years.

As for the school...I really disagree with it. The page brags that their children start "professional" training at age 5-6. No 5 year old seriously knows what they want as a career. Sure, a lot of girls will say they want to be a ballerina, but then again, my brother wanted to be a monkey. Obviously it caters to the wants of the parents, not what the children want.

I also find it interesting that while they list all the competitions that their children won, and how their students "can perform the most difficult elements of classical choreography, such as, for example, 32 fouettes" by the age of 10-11, they never mention anyone going on to a professional career or what companies any students go on to dance with, unless I missed it somewhere.

No 5 year old seriously knows what they want as a career

I think that's a difference in culture and philosophy. In the USA, we believe in choosing our love and our career. But in many cultures, both are chosen by the parents.

There is no doubt that this girl is talented, but the question that keeps springing to my mind is WHY?

There is honestly NO point putting a child en pointe that early! What are they trying to achieve by putting her up so early... do they think that they are somehow giving them an advantage over other girls who (like MOST OF THE WORLD) are put up somewhere from 11 onwards?

So what if someone can do perfect fouettes en pointe at six... where do they go from there? By seventeen (just random number, not meaning at this exact age or anything) someone who was trained properly as a child and danced beautifully on flat and was then put up en pointe when they were ready could have easily caught up to the same level as the person who was put en pointe at six.

I can see a couple of things happening to Lada

1) That girl is going to have a maajjjooooourly big head... making SUCH a huge deal of her at such a young age and giving her so many grown up lead roles... why wouldn't she have a big head!

2) I can see her getting complacent and bored... en pointe at six (although I would bet my bottom dollar that she was en pointe before that!) and dancing lead roles like Odette/Odile at 8... what has she got to look forward to? She has already done it all!

Also, what happens to poor Lada when the next 'prodigy' turns up? What happens when she is 12 - 13 and not little and cute anymore and they put their attention into creating the next 'Lada'... because that is what I think this studio is about... how fantastic looking they can make the little ones, but I don't know how much emphasis is put into the older ones? I can see her getting very discouraged!

And all of this is on top of the very real feet issues that could be caused by putting her en pointe so young!

Ofcourse I could be totally wrong and she might have no feet problems and she might turn out to be the next ballet mega star... I guess only time will tell!



Oh just remembered what I was going to say also. While she does some very nice technical stuff, her performance leaves me very cold. None of her presentation/performance looks like it comes from the heart, it looks very much like she has been told how to perform it and it shows.

Anyway, that's it from me! (Although I will probably look at this tomorrow and see all my spelling mistakes and wish I had proof read it tonight... too bad! It is sleep time! lol)

No 5 year old seriously knows what they want as a career

Any one that thinks a five year old isn't determined enough to know what they want to do with their own life doesn't know many five year olds.

I had decided by that age that I was going to be a dancer. My mother, who had been a dancer and retired because of an eating disorder, something I didn't learn until much later, actively discouraged me, and my father wasn't interested at all. It was the school I was at that arranged everything for my first lessons.

Young children can be very determined, don't discount her input.

hummingbird wrote:

Young children can be very determined

I thoroughly agree and I hate to see children being patronized! I think it's amazing what young people (and in fact all people) can do with support, self-belief, hard work and a good teacher/mentor. Not just in ballet, but anything.

I'm as sceptical as the rest of you about this school, but it is interesting to observe what can be achieved by an eight year old. (I'm not saying I'd let my daughter do it, or that this girl is comparable to a mature prima ballerina... but you know what I mean)

this is the trailer of "the unfinished dance"

www.youtube.com . . .

well, you can see this little girl on points at 2.44min
She can not be older than 4 or 5, I guess ...

^YES - That's the little girl I was talking about. In the film her solo audition is pretty long it looks like that the whole time. Omg, it is cringe-worthy.

Eek!

"...the delightful interludes of it's young beautiful performers..."

In the actual film is her pointe work supposed to be bad or "delightful"?!