Hey everyone, I have a question about fifth position...


First off, it looks horrible! I cant close the toes in much at all...anyways, my knees never seem to be fully straight.
I was reading some threads, and I believe I am slightly hyper extended (my knees when straight, kinda bow back behind me when standing parallel) Would this have anything to do with why my knees wont straighten?

My teacher said I need to really pull up the standing leg from the inner thigh in order to make room for the working leg to close/brush behind... but I cant figure out how I am suppose to pull it up.

I'm still working on using the right muscle when moving the working leg.. but now I cant seem to pull up the standing leg enough to make room, while attempting to keep the knees straight.

Also! When standing in 5th position, I feel almost like my body is slightly turning more towards the back leg. As if instead of standing straight ahead in 1st position ,when I close to 5th position with my right leg forward, it feels almost like I feel that my body then turns slightly left towards the barre. I dont think is what is suppose to happen? How can I fix this?


Sry for so many questions!
thanks!

I just got up out of my chair and tried standing in fifth position with both the left and right foot in front. What I found was that when I am standing in my best fifth where I am pulled up and actively rotating both legs out from the hip and engaging my core, etc. I am able to face perfectly forward. If I relaxed though and stopped working in the position, I definetly twisted towards the back leg, just like you are experiencing. So, that being said, I think it is normal that your body twists, but that you need to find a way to stop it by working a bit harder in the position so your body isn't relaxed enough to allow you to twist. Ballet is hard because even when it looks like a dancer is standing still in one position, it's not so. That dancers body is buzzing with energy and many muscles are currently engaged to keep that position looking good and motionless. I think that this, along with a lot of the other things you've posted about, will come to you with more practice. You need strength to be able to do the things you are mentioning and have them feel somewhat effortless (a difficult feat!) and in order to build strength, you need time.

Well, with hyper extended legs, it actually should be easier to straighten your knees in fifth position. When you go into fifth, first make sure that you're not forcing your turnout. You won't be able to hold it properly and you could seriously injure your knees. What helps me (I'm also hyper extended) is to place your back leg first in the turned out position and hyper extend it (straighten it as far as it will go) and then place your front leg where it's supposed to be. For pulling up, you want to think of shooting up through the ceiling. I know it may sound weird, but it works if you really try. When you're doing degages and other stuff where you need to close to fifth, squeeze your seat muscles as hard as you can. It will make them sore he next day, but it will help a LOT. I can't really help with the last question about the twisting, because I've never seen or experienced that before. I hope this helped!!!

5th position is hard for all of the reasons you just mentioned. It sounds like you are forcing your turnout a bit, so bring your feet just slightly more towards parallel. You will have to build a lot of strength in your glutes and hip flexors to be able to hold yourself in a nice 5th position without twisting or bending your knees. I have been dancing for two years now, 5 hours a week and I still struggle a bit with a nice 5th position.

Don't worry about having a perfect fifth. Unless you have excellent turnout, you will not get a fully closed fifth. From what I remember, you are an adult beginner, correct? It is very unlikely you will have 180 degree turnout, so in fifth your feet will look like a V not like || in fifth. That is fine, it doesn't mean it is wrong.

As for the turning, it sounds like you don't have the strength to hold that much turnout yet. Turnout comes from the hip socket, and the muscles there are responsible for holding it. When you close in fifth, your standing foot (back) can't turn in because your weight is on it, so your upper body (from the hip socket up) moves instead. Reduce your turnout to where you can hold it, and you should be ok.

You just started didn't you? Can you work in third for a while while you build strength and get used to the movements? Children don't use fifth right off the bat, they work up to it, and there is no reason we can't too!

You may have to sacrifice a bit of your turnout in order to straighten your knees. But don't lose hope...you'll get there Good luck!

I would agree that you should sacrifice some turnout to straighten your knees. Your turnout muscles will never fully build if you don't straighten your knees. Also, I would suggest you build some inner thigh, butt and leg strength in general. This will help you hold you fifth.
Think of your thighs flattening as you stand in your first position and this will help align your knees and toes by immediately turning your knees outward. Apply the same concept in fifth. Feel the thigh flattening as you engage your inner thighs and keep your knees fully stretched. Really feeling your muscles will help you figure out what's working and what's not and get you stronger.
Also just do turn out exercises to work you butt muscles. Do clamshells, they really help. I know getting to perfect fifth will require some time and effort but the end product is worth it. Imagine yourself with a fifth like the girl above. I'm sure you can do it!

Pull up from your center and allow your legs to be comfortable. You should feel your legs winding down like a candy cane.

Sajanee

Definitely make sure your upper body is properly aligned - tuck your tailbone and keep your ribs/tummy pulled in. I find that if my upper body isn't in proper alignment, 5th position is really hard. I also agree with what others are saying here: you need to build strength and work on your natural turnout.

My little sister (who I also teach) has crazy turnout and her knees are incredibly hyperextended. Because your knees are hyperextended, you may not feel like your knees are straight, but they will look straight due to the hyperextension. Just work on turning out from the theigh Good luck.

I would say that your problem is that your not pulling up enough to let your legs close properly. Its like trying to shove something big in a little space. When you close and your knees are bent its because your upper body isn't pulled up there for something has got to give and make room for your legs to come in, which would be your bending knees. I too am hyper extended and fifth position isn't the easiest it just takes time and a lot of pulling up!

Another possible reason is that you are rocking forward on your feet. That will make your body twist and knees ben.d i used to have that problem, and it can really only be fixed by sacrificing a little turnout. I wish you luck! Don't give up!