I know there are younger kids still in middle school and high school who use this site, and most of you are too young to remember the Columbine High School shooting in 1998 (thanks Britt!) that was a direct result of lonely teenagers who were bullied in school and failed to fit in. Despite it being 11 years after the fact, bullying still exists. In fact, it has only gotten worse, with the advances in technology and now that every kid has their own laptop, cell phone, and full rein of social media such as facebook, twitter, blogs, etc. If you're a bullier, this is my appeal to you. Stop now. I saw this 9 minute clip during a presentation in class tonight and it was a harsh reminder of what kids are capable of if provoked enough.

Now, this video isn't for the faint of heart, but I recommend it to get the message across.

www.youtube.com . . .

The title of the video on youtube is really confusing, is it a movie?

^ Yep. It's a clip from a movie called Zero Day. So while the footage itself isn't real, it's still a good reminder of the evil that people are capable of (as Sara said).

It's from a movie called Zero Day which was in response to the Columbine Shootings (which actually happened in 1999, not 2001 ) so yeah, not a real video. But I definitely agree with the message of the post.

Something about bullying that made me tear up recently was a response to the Jonah Mowry video -



Although there's another video of him saying he's popular and the video is four months old but still points out his SI scars but it's one of the response videos that really got me -

Although, I disagree with Sara on the cause, the video is startling. I did a massive research project a few years ago on the causes of Columbine and came to my conclusion that it was cause by mental instability exacerbated by the media. But it still important to note that bullying was a contributing factor.

Yes, this is a clip from the movie Zero Day. We weren't told that it was a movie until after we watched the clip. I was shocked that it's actually a movie because the clip looks so real. That's why I was mildly vague in my OP. I wanted to get the message across, and some people are reluctant to pay any mind to movies. But nevertheless, Zero Day was made to be an almost re-enactment of Columbine. The Columbine shooting was actually caught on tape but the FBI is under court order not to release it, but there are those out there who wanted to get the message across to kids that these things are possible, no matter where you are. Zero Day is commonly used as training material for teachers and law enforcement for school shootings. I'm really interested in watching the entire thing.

I understand the point of that clip, and I'm glad that they're using something realistic to train teachers and law enforcement, but I...don't know how successful it was in getting the message across, at least for me.

It's not that I don't understand the connection between bullying and violent behavior like this-it's just that even after reading that this clip wasn't real, I still couldn't even think while I was watching it, let alone think critically about the effects of bullying and how it can be stopped. That was, hands down, the most horrible thing I've ever watched in my life. I literally felt sick to my stomach and had to stop after 2 minutes, it was that awful. So during those 2 minutes, I wasn't even thinking about bullying prevention-because I couldn't think about anything except the horrible things I was seeing.

I guess I could see where the reality of it and the shock value is meant to jolt people out of complacency, but I just wonder how effective that strategy is when applied to a larger number of people, you know? And what happens when tons more people have seen Zero Day and start to become desensitized to it? I'm not saying it's not effective in some ways, those were just my thoughts when I saw it.

EDIT: Could we maybe put a stronger warning on that video? When I read "not for the faint of heart," I was expecting something bad, but I was not prepared for that level of awful.

I watched the Columbine tragedy unfold on the news that morning. I'll pass on the video, if you don't mind. I'm sure it's harsh.

BUT.... I absolutely agree on the bullying message. It needs to be stopped. I'v seen too many kids affected by varying degrees of bullying. And sadly, bullying happens even among adults.

kk~

ah sorry, didn't mean to out your video. I agree the footage seems realish, but the errm "acting" did seem scripted so that is why I was looking for evidence of it being fake and I didn't end up watching the whole thing. I definitely appreciate the anti bully stance, but it was hard for me to think of that when I was watching. Were the perpetrators supposed to seem like they had been bullied? I didn't get that as I watched it, more of a mental instability came out for me.

First of all... why watch a fake clip? The Columbine footage is available on youtube.

There's no sound on the tape, though they play 911 calls. Footage is blurry, not graphic.
www.youtube.com . . .

But more importantly: after years of study, it's fairly safe to say that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were NOT provoked to attack by bullying.

Harris and Klebold were ignored more than they were picked on, and were occasionally bullies themselves; their attacks were largely due to mental illness. FBI profilers identified Harris as a psychopath and Klebold a depressive. Harris masterminded the attack. This article helps dispel these myths:

The killings ignited a national debate over bullying, but the record now shows Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold hadn't been bullied — in fact, they had bragged in diaries about picking on freshmen and "fags."

Their rampage put schools on alert for "enemies lists" made by troubled students, but the enemies on their list had graduated from Columbine a year earlier. Contrary to early reports, Harris and Klebold weren't on antidepressant medication and didn't target jocks, blacks or Christians, police now say, citing the killers' journals and witness accounts. That story about a student being shot in the head after she said she believed in God? Never happened, the FBI says now.

A decade after Harris and Klebold made Columbine a synonym for rage, new information — including several books that analyze the tragedy through diaries, e-mails, appointment books, videotape, police affidavits and interviews with witnesses, friends and survivors — indicate that much of what the public has been told about the shootings is wrong.

In fact, the pair's suicidal attack was planned as a grand — if badly implemented — terrorist bombing that quickly devolved into a 49-minute shooting rampage when the bombs Harris built fizzled.

...What's left, after peeling away a decade of myths, is perhaps more comforting than the "good kids harassed into retaliation" narrative — or perhaps not.

It's a portrait of Harris and Klebold as a sort of In Cold Blood criminal duo — a deeply disturbed, suicidal pair who over more than a year psyched each other up for an Oklahoma City-style terrorist bombing, an apolitical, over-the-top revenge fantasy against years of snubs, slights and cruelties, real and imagined.

Along the way, they saved money from after-school jobs, took Advanced Placement classes, assembled a small arsenal and fooled everyone — friends, parents, teachers, psychologists, cops and judges.

"These are not ordinary kids who were bullied into retaliation," psychologist Peter Langman writes in his new book, Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters. "These are not ordinary kids who played too many video games. These are not ordinary kids who just wanted to be famous. These are simply not ordinary kids. These are kids with serious psychological problems."

That article is a really fantastic read, by the way. I highly suggest everyone on this thread goes and takes a look.

Sorry, Sara - bullying is bad, but Columbine is NOT a great example there.

And if the message is “Don’t bully people or else they will shoot up the school”… sorry, no, I completely reject THAT! Get them the goddamn hell OUT of the schools! Bullying is bad to do for plenty of completely valid reasons, not out of the fear that someone will come after you with a shotgun, for Pete’s sake. No matter how mean people are to you, it is never okay to go blow their heads off. No one should operate under that premise. In fact, I don't think it's possible to "provoke" someone into MASS MURDER. Particularly mass murder of innocents! To get there requires such a twisted perception of reality that the exit for "psychosis" is likely two miles back. If you're thinking that way, you need to be out of the classroom and behind locked doors in a juvie psych ward.

Don't bully people because it's wrong to bully people. Leave the guns out of it!

Even though I was very young at the time, I still remember the horrible outbreak of the Columbine news.

I hope it never occurs again. And that footage...although not real made me feel super sick :/ Definitely not for the faint of heart.

SaraTheGrouch wrote:

I know there are younger kids still in middle school and high school who use this site, and most of you are too young to remember the Columbine High School shooting in 1998 (thanks Britt!) that was a direct result of lonely teenagers who were bullied in school and failed to fit in. Despite it being 11 years after the fact, bullying still exists. In fact, it has only gotten worse, with the advances in technology and now that every kid has their own laptop, cell phone, and full rein of social media such as facebook, twitter, blogs, etc. If you're a bullier, this is my appeal to you. Stop now. I saw this 9 minute clip during a presentation in class tonight and it was a harsh reminder of what kids are capable of if provoked enough.

Now, this video isn't for the faint of heart, but I recommend it to get the message across.

www.youtube.com . . .

This subject i ceartinly feel and wish it got more attention, and people didn't play it off as something we shouldn't be talking about or that it's not a big deal. Bullying and suicides are becoming WAY to common and it needs to stop, i hope everyone takes this seriously.

Heart wrote:

but the record now shows Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold hadn't been bullied

How far back does "the record" look?

These are simply not ordinary kids. These are kids with serious psychological problems.

If this is true, what caused those problems? Look earlier!

If this is true, what caused those problems? Look earlier!

LOL, y'all probably think Milt means to look earlier in their lives. Nope. He means to look 75 million years earlier when the alien warlord Xemu flew to earth on an airplane and committed genocide against the thetans by blowing them all up with nuclear bombs. boom. Long story short, the blowed-up thetans became all of our psychological problems. So if you want to get rid of your psychological problems, you can't just go to a psychiatrist. You have to communicate telepathically with your thetans and ask them to go away. Did I get that right, Milt?

^Most inventive and creative. You should write fantasy.

Now do you have any comments to further this thread?
ARC,
Milt

I'd like to point out that bullying doesn't just happen to kids. There are plenty of adult bullies out there, too.

And sadly, bullying happens even among adults.

pls to read before posting.

^ Said "point out" not "add". Please read before posting.

I don't think you can "point out" something that we had all just read. Perhaps "restate" would have been more appropriate. Or "reiterate". You're not in the UK are you? Because I know they have a severe shortages of thesauruses over there.

Panic, go away. Nobody appreciates your incessant annoyance anymore.

I guess that explains why I never get any karma. *frowny face* Maybe you could give me popularity lessons, Sarah. Because obviously, no one here thinks you're annoying.

Right, because karma really determines anything. I think that's probably the most pathetic thing I've ever seen you post.

Awwww, Sweetie. Sour grapes. en.wikipedia.org . . .

Karma is never my reason for posting, but is DOES mean SOMETHING. I mean obviously, people don't give karma to posts they find annoying. I just think it's funny that you of all people would tell me to be less annoying. It's like when Kara tells me to be nicer. It's ironic. Like a black fly in my chardonnay.

I just wrote a very large, extensive research paper on the potential causes of in school violence and school shootings, and have to disagree with the idea that bullying is a major factor.

Research has found that in the vast majority of cases (with the EXCEPTION of a few) that most perpetrators in a violent school incident or school shooting has many, many highly influential factors that precipitated any bullying they may or may not have received. Bullying is a very small factor in the causes of these incidents.

School size, which in turn also leads to socioeconomic variety and status is high on the list of causes. Large schools lead to more anonymity and to more competition between its students. Its more likely to be invisible and ignored than to be picked on in these large schools.

In most instances, the shooters came from loving, middle-class normal homes, and members of these homes were genuinely shocked at the outbreak of violence-- they never saw it coming and they had no way of knowing.

Violent video games have been blamed, but when less than 1% of the young adult population shoots up their class mates while a much greater number also play violent video games, there is something of a mismatch of data there-- there is no causation or correlation between the two no matter how you spin it.

Just the same goes for bullying-- many, many of us have been bullied at some point in our lives. But lets be realistic, none of us have walked into school with a gun and tried to off our peers. The damage that a person who is being bullied does is usually internalized, not externalized. As with violent video games-- the number of students being bullied versus the number of students taking part in this violent outbreak 'as a result of bullying' just doesnt add up.

What causes these outbursts are the internal factors of the people participating. The two young men of Columbine were very sick, mentally unsound, and deranged people. Normal people dont snap from every day bullying, or from playing violent video games or watching violent shows. NORMAL PEOPLE DONT. But, these young men werent normal, nor was the shooter from Virginia Tech, or the school in Finland, or the Thurston shootings. The shooters in ALL OF THESE CASES were mentally ill, socio-pathic and displayed anti-social behavior-- and bullying was either NOT a factor, or a very small one compared to other accompanying factors.


Research has shown, and I agree, that the proper way to 'prevent' (because can you REALLY prevent something like this) is to improve student-teacher rapport, and to increase the number of in school intervention specialists and counselors to help students who are showing warning signs of ANY kind of distress, such as depression, anxiety, and suicidal tendencies. If we can better understand each student, we can see any signs of trouble that had previously been missed.


Bullying is only a very small factor in any of these shootings. The only reason that it is even mentioned as a possible cause is because it occurred along side a perfect storm of other influence and causes- the mental instability, predisposition to violence and antisocial behavior, the access to guns, and the recklessness and indifference of these young people. Its a very small factor in a whirlwind of fear, media exploitation, and paranoia.

As a parent of a son with Aspergers, this subject is so close to my heart, as my son was bullied in primary school for being different. this continued to go on until myself and my husband decided we had had enough. We called a meeting with the school headmaster and bluntly told him that if this persistent aggressive behaviour towards my son continued then we would be taking action against the school as they was breaking the law by not providing a safe environment for my son while he was in their care. This is a fact!This worked and from that day my son started to enjoy school even though he didn't have any friends to speak of but he was just greatful to be able to go everyday without feeling intimidated or worse. I can't bring myself to watch the clips as i get really emotional