This link provides an interesting read regarding how we talk to kids (girls in particular, but I think boys are just as important). Basically, it suggests trying to communicate with girls on a "higher" level that gets them to really think - about books, world events, culture, etc...

In addition to wanting to share this with all you parents out there - I loved the article and shared it with my sister who just had a little girl - I wanted to ask a question.

A little girl my partner and I spend time with - let's call her his niece, for want of a better term - has just turned 12. For Christmas, she received the Twilight series books. On the one hand, I'm THRILLED that she is reading - her home life has not encouraged or supported reading in the past, and I'm glad that her mom has found her a series that she enjoys. She is devouring the book already.

On the other hand... I've read the first 2 books of the series, in order to give it a fair chance. I've read the synopsis' of the last two books. I hate them. I think Bella Swan is a weak role model for any woman or girl, and I would think twice about giving any 12 year old this series.

My question is this - how do I support her new-found love of reading while opening a dialogue that will allow discussion of the book's gender typing and normalizing abusive behaviour... not to mention the poor writing! I don't want to criticize the books, but I would like to discuss with her Bella's weaknesses as a strong female character.

Am I over-reacting because I just really hate these books? Should I stay away from this, and just see where a discussion goes in terms of talking about the book? I think it will kill me to hear her talk about how "perfect" Edward is for Bella... ack.

My partner and I wanted to get her the Harry Potter series, but I was afraid that she wouldn't read them - maybe we'll try again next xmas!

Yes, I do think you're overreacting because you hate the books.

INSTEAD of trying to point out flaws in books that she likes, maybe try to talk about plot development, what it would be like to be a vampire that has to look the same throughout the years, and if she was as old as Edward, what parts of history she would have wanted to see first-hand. Especially at 12 years old, she doesn't want her "aunt" trying to make her dislike something that she likes. I think it'd be far, far better to think of creative elements that you can talk about instead of down-talking it.

Then ask her about what parts she liked about the books, and look together for other books with similar qualities. That will move her on to new books that hopefully you will share more affinity for.

Other books for her age that you might look into as possibilities, so that when you talk about book elements you have an idea of where you can go:

Stephenie Meyer's "The Host" (much better writing, at least).
Diane Duane's "Wizarding" series (VERY good for her age). (wizards)
Suzanne Collins "Hunger Games" series. (future world)
Scott Westerfeld's "Uglies" series. (future world, technology)
P.C. Cast's "House of Night" series. (vampires)

Other titles: Water Wars, Barcode Tattoo, Paperquake.

I hate the series for the same reasons you do and my sister (17) loves them! I rant to her about why I hate them, but she is 17 and "gets" it and we are siblings and make fun of what the other likes all the time anyway.

I wouldn't talk to your 12 year old niece about it though...coming from you...more of an authoritative figure, I just feel like she would shut down and think you don't understand her at all.

Try to focus on the fact that she is reading (there are lots of people out there who despise the HP series for it's witchcraft...but I always say at least kids are picking up a book!). I think giving her the HP series would be a great idea though. Hermione kicks butt!

I think this picture really illustrates how you feel about Twilight.

I guess you could talk about it open endedly by asking if she thinks Bella is a good role model, or if she's a strong woman or something like that. But I would really try hard not to put down the books, at least she's reading something. Maybe for her birthday you can introduce her to Harry Potter or other books with strong characters that are still fun and interesting.

My daughter got into these books about the age of 15. I do not make a big deal about it because I am happy she is reading something, anything! She's never been a big reader. I am hoping they lead into her enjoying more mature books as she matures. She has also read Harry Potter and enjoyed them so I think getting your niece the HP books is a great idea.

I have not read Twilight, but I have read my fair share of beach trash books and they never did me any harm or kept me from enjoying more serious books.

kk~

If I finally found something I liked, and all anybody around me wanted to do was just knock it down, and talk to me about how even though I liked it, it was actually really, really terrible, I'd be HORRIBLY dissapointed. And probably less likely to discuss things that I liked with that person in the future, since all they did was wreck my fun new book last time. How sad for her.

You can find ways to talk about what she's reading without dragging it through the mud and making her feel dumb for liking it, can't you?

Theresa wrote:

You can find ways to talk about what she's reading without dragging it through the mud and making her feel dumb for liking it, can't you?

Yes, Theresa - that was my point. I'd like to avoid putting down the book;

pharmadancer wrote:

I don't want to criticize the books

and was looking for suggestions. Do you have any?

I don't want to put down the book. I know that it will make her clam up if I put down something she likes. I wondered if there was any way I could discuss a character and some themes of the book in order to open a discussion. I wasn't going to preach to her about how "terrible" the book was.

I came here asking if I should avoid talking about Bella at all (since it may open up a can of worms), or should I focus on other discussions we could have about the book.

Thank you, AlwaysOnStage, for your suggestions on what kinds of questions I should ask. That was helpful.

I dislike the Twilight series but I Nanny a preteen who has read them.

I asked her how *she* felt about the parts that I thought was bad. I never lead on that I felt they were bad or anything, and I just wanted to see her point of view. Even as a preteen she thought parts of the book were weird and she didn't think Bella was the perfect girl to be.

I think if you open up dialogue on how *she* feels about the series and why she likes them, that would be a good idea. If she says she thinks Edward is perfect for Bella, ask her why she thinks so. Is it the love, it is the personality etc. During the discussion I think that she will most likely ask you what you think of Edward. You can point out the flaws, but also the good points about their love etc. ( not sure if you can come up with any though).

If it makes you feel better, I read a bunch of "trashy/brainless" books as a preteen and it developed into a love for reading. I think her finding a series that she loves, will help her find the love for books in general. It doesn't matter so much the actual content, but that fact that she is able to listen to read a story and see how a normal plot develops. It seems like the younger generation is into instant gratification because of social media, TV etc...it is good to see them reading ANY type of book that would take hours to read.

If you ask her WHY she likes Twilight, you may be able to find books that are more her taste. Does she like love stories, does she like mystical creatures, does she like it because it is a popular book etc.

AlwaysOnStage had a lot of good suggestions.

The picture Moonlitefairy06 posted pretty much illustrates what I find problematic about the series, but ya gotta reign in the feminist criticism when you're talking to a twelve year old. I read Twilight and loved it when I was younger (before it became popular, it was pretty much unknown). I also read TONS of romance novels. My mom was pretty critical of the latter and felt they gave me highly unrealistic expectations for interaction with the opposite sex, and who knows they probably did. But the more she pushed against them, the more I wanted to read them.

So instead of bashing the book, or even critiquing it, try just having a discussion. Pick her brain a little bit. Who knows, you and her might have similar thoughts about certain plot elements of the book. Just because Stephanie Meyer intends for a certain character or plot device to be interpreted in a certain way, doesn't mean it will be interpreted in that way.

Hi,

One way of opening up discussion is an open ended question to her...

'Hey, I found out you read this book...me too! What did you like most about that book?'

Give her a chance to sort out her impressions and thoughts. Some kids 'devour' books but spend little time actually thinking about it after they have read the last page. Other kids devour them and mull on them for ages. You never know! Hear her thoughts first.

and then you can share what you liked about it-and maybe there wasn't anything wonderful but there is rarely -nothing good- to be said about a book.

Then you can follow with "what was your least favourite part? and you never know-she may surprise you and say: "I loved the whole thing but I really wish Bella was a bit tougher!" She may not as well , but open ended questions will give her a chance to discuss her thoughts and think about the book and it will give you a chance to see what she is taking away from the book.

If she talks about a particular character and the way he or she behaved or thought you can compare it to other characters to from other books other books. "yeah Bella made this choice after what happened but Ingrid the Mighty maybe would have done this..." or...You could ask..."What would you have done differently from Bella ( or said character)." Or "what do you think about they way he/she handled that?"

I have found the best way to share with a kid your thoughts about something is to really take in and listen to and value their thoughts first even if you dont agree. You hear them, They'll hear you is my motto!

Every child is different-what is 'wonderful' today may be something abhorrent in a year. As a big reader myself when I was young-I can tell you my tastes in who I admired changed, my views of characters through the years changed, The golden girl on my pre-teens became the silly thing I would -never- be like in my teens. Provide her with variety and she will have a choice!. its really only when we are given one example from which to drawn that our outlook becomes limited.

It's clear you really care about this little girl and at the end of the day-it's her real life relationships what will have the most impact. It's a great gift you are giving her-your attention and care.


best wishes!

I second the other suggestions.

I would buy her something else to read. Something of the same level but actually good: Harry Potter, Artemis Fowl, Pendragon. If she likes some of those suggest or buy her something of a higher reading level.

You could suggest a book after a discussion about Twilight. If she liked if for the Vampire aspect recommend something about Vampires (Dracula, for instance, or Crique Du Freak for something easier to read). If she likes the romance suggest some GOOD romance. Or just go "I read this book a while ago I think you would like it."

When I was 12 I lived on books by Enid Blyton (in a frankly terrible Dutch translation, too, because I didn't know any English). They were exciting, and as unrealistic as they got, but at that age I didn't care. I also read YA books about romance and none of that stuck with me (whether these relationships were portrayed as realistic and 'a good example' or not) because at age 12 I wasn't interested yet (I must admit I was kind of a late developer in that sense). I just wanted exciting books. And as for good or bad prose -- hello, Enid Blyton???

Let the girl read and find out the magic of books (no pun intended). You can, if you think it's necessary, discuss the books with her, but then I'd suggest you also discuss other books. Don't single out the Twilight books.

As a primary school teacher I can't help but respond to this. I see so many frankly awful books that kids read and you sort of have to make the best of it and just be thankful they *are* reading.

Questions you might want to ask -

1) Who is your favourite character and why? What do you think it would be like to be that person for a day? Kids often realise that even their favourite characters have awful lives, esp. by the age of 12. It's interesting to hear how they separate fantasy from reality.

2) What's the book/s about? Usually they'll start by telling you "this happens and then this and this" and that's fine. Let them do that until you hear something of interest and ask why the child thinks that happens or what the author is trying to make the reader think about. This is very early critical literacy and some kids are better at it than others. There's no wrong answer here. Just chat.

3) If you were going to write your own story what would it be like? What sort of characters would you want? Where would it be set etc? Kids are GOOD at this one. Most kids have made up stories, whether it be play-acting or actually story-writing. The plus side of all reading is that it encourages kids to want to create, even if it's just dress-ups when they're little. Some kids loooove to make up their own comic strips. By 12 she's probably over that, but you might get some very interesting conversation out of it and you may even inspire her to go off and make up some of her own stories.

Okay, I'll stop now. I could go on forever. I love talking to my students about their books because no two observations are ever the same and, really, no observation is ever 'wrong'. Enjoy the chance for conversation and take advantage of the fact you haven't read the last two to let her be the 'expert'.

I agree that you just need to offer her some other books to read, that may interest her. There are some great, old classics, that are just as mysterious and romantic. Think in terms of Wuthering Heights, etc., though not sure if that is a little above her, as far as how it is written.

At 12, as long as she is reading, it's a start, though I do agree Bella is not a great role model.

Take her to the library, or shopping. You can look through different books and discuss them with her. You may get her interested in more, just by showing an interest.

She might actually have a point of view on the books you never even considered.

Did I like Twilight, per se? Nope. Did I dislike Bella and find her 'weak'? Nope.

When I was 12 I was reading The Babysitter's Club series. Besides that I read a lot of Sci-Fi/Fantasy. Since she's reading Twilight, which is basically a Fantasy, you might pick her up another fantasy. You know her better than we do and understand her level of reading comprehension, so pick something along the lines of what she might be able to understand and have deep conversations with you about it.

When I was her age, my uncle supplied me with lots and lots of books. He was a male and he never talked to be about 'role models' and other things of that nature. I might have shied away from talking to him if I felt like he was trying to influence what I was thinking. So be very careful about purposefully broaching any subject about what she's reading besides honestly wanting to know her point of view. Kids are perceptive. If that radar of suspicion pops up, they clam up.

If you're close, I'd suggest not even mentioning the books she's reading at the moment, and instead just giving her a copy of a book that you love. (Obviously not something too intense like The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, but nothing to insult her intelligence either). If she looks up to you, she'll at least give it a try, and if it's a really good book that might do it to expand her literary horizons.

When I was about her age, I read some truly terrible books. Pre-teen romances, essentially. They were a quick escapist read which was all I was looking for, and I devoured them. In hindsight, I read them because I was lazy and didn't have to think or invest too much energy into them.

One day, my mum brought me a battered, well-loved book. The spine was broken, and the back cover had fallen off, but the pages were printed on that wonderful silky bible-paper. "Here," she said. "This is one of my favourite books. See what you think of it". That's it. No talk of role models, no talk of writing styles, just "I love this, and I think you might too."

Because I have always looked up to my mum, I hefted the tome and started to read. And that book - The Lord of the Rings, in case you were wondering - quickly became my favourite, as well. When I moved, I gave her back her copy, and she bought me my own.

That one book was all it took for me. After reading that, I got into some serious classics and never touched one of the lazy books again.

Thank you to everyone for the suggestions and advice. I appreciate it more than you know.

You've also forced me to really think back to when I was a kid, and what I was reading. I have to admit that, although I was reading some great books for that age - I also got into the trashy RL Stine books, which probably evolved into my Stephen King obsession. King is my "brain candy" when I don't feel like reading Dickens or Thackeray.

Like I said in the OP, this kid comes from a family that doesn't exactly value education and reading. She's a smart kid, and does well in school (except math), but I don't think she really LOVES learning, you know? I want to encourage learning for enjoyments' sake - and I think discussing what you read is a great way to do that. I'll try to let her lead the conversation - but she's a quiet kid, and I think it'll be short. Oh well - at least she is reading, right?

I'd love to get her interested in some classics. I love your story, Caffeine of your mom saying that she loved that book and thought you'd love it too. I'd love to give her a copy of one of my favourite books (Pride and Prejudice) and see how she liked it.

I just worry about her reading comprehension level... I was an avid reader growing up, but even I took a lot of time getting into the classics (Austen, Bronte, Tolkien, etc) because of the differences in vocabulary and structure. I think it can take some time/effort to become comfortable with the language.

Any advice/suggestions on bridging the gap between modern lit and classics for pre-teens/teens?

Just encourage reading, and try to promote the idea that she doesn't have to defend her reading choices to anyone (not even you). This way, she'll gain the confidence to say "I'm reading because I like it and that's enough." If she gets into that rhythm, and she's as smart as you think, she'll probably get tired of the repetative plot structure of most pre-teen and teen books anyway and will start searching for more. There is no way to make that bridge until she is internally motivated to do it. I was always a high-quality, way-above-grade-level reader in school and I got upset and turned off to reading when they tried to push things like "The Scarlet Letter"...sure, i'd be able to understand it, but I'm 12 and I don't care about it.

Give her confidence, and try to lead by example (not by direction). If she incorporates reading into her self-image and lifestyle, then she has the next 80 years to explore the world of literature...and there's no reason she has to start on the fancy stuff just yet.

I <3 trashy YA romances! My sister had a ton, so I got my fill of Sweet Dreams novels (I hang my head and admit, from time to time I still go to a trashy romance novel for a quick mindless guilty pleasure). But I also love words a lot and so I sought books that were more challenging than a quick one off read. So as I approached my teens, I was reading Jane Austen and the Brontes and all those sorts of books. My mom was really into the Cat Who series at the time and so I started reading her cast off books. For a fairly innocent murder romp, the Cat Who series is fun as is the Bed and Breakfast Mystery series and the Crossword Murder Mystery series. They're predictable, though entertaining. The fluff novels were a good balance as I waded headfirst into the Faerie Queen and the Odyssey.

It might take baby steps to go from Twilight to Austen (Tolkien, etc), but I think it can be done. I'm guilty of having read Twilight once, and while I know there's reference to classical music in it, I can't remember if there are references to books as well. * If so it might be possible to introduce to an obsessed 12-y-o wanting to absorb everything related to the books as something Edward/Bella/Other Popular Character also enjoyed..?

(* Another story time: the only reason I read Gone with the Wind at 14 was because we were studying The Outsiders in school, and one of the characters was reading it. Bookception?)

Or, is there a modern film version of one of the classics she might be interested in? (eg: Clueless as a reworking of Emma, or the Keira Knightley version of Pride and Prejudice, or even the BBC series Lost in Austen and so on) That could be a fun way of introducing her to the language structure before giving her the book. **

(** yet another story! The stage show Les Miserables inspired 13/14-y-o-me to hunt down the translated-from-French book by Victor Hugo. Without seeing the show I never would have read it because I wasn't interested in French revolutions. But men in tight pants singing about it while being all manly made me swoon!)

Maybe try Tolkien-lite - David Eddings would be a good intro to the swords and magic fantasy genre. He is fluffy in the right way, I laugh out loud reading his (and his wife's) stuff. I know a lot of people didn't like his final series The Elder Gods, but it has a female protaginist - I still prefer the Belgarath books myself.

Do you really need to talk to her at all about anything she's reading? It would probably freak you out, but I cut my teeth reading when I was 11 years old on Stehen King books - I started with Carrie and went on from there. Even my teacher in Grade 5 spun out when I told him I was falling asleep in class because I'd stayed up all night reading Cujo.

Really, 90% of kids are quite capable of working out the difference between fact & fiction and if you start trying to over analyze it with them, it will take half the fun out of it and make them a bit uncomfortable with you (or her parents). I think I've made it to my 40's without wanting to sick a huge rabid dog on anyone...I think...actually, maybe I should change 'want' to 'have', there's been a few times in my life where I've probably wanted to!

I agree with keeping questions open ended. Things like "what did you think about when..." and "what would you do if..." don't make it like a test, more like a dialogue.

I read a lot of books when I was younger about spunky feminist heroines, and it's definitely informed my feelings on the subject now.

I loved the Enchanted Forest Chronicles, starting with "Dealing with Dragons" It's YA, and definitely written at a level that an infrequently reading 12 year old wouldn't have trouble with.

My absolute favourite series at 13 was Anne McCaffrey's YA Dragonsinger series. But, that one took a bit of time to figure out, because it's set in a world that had been set up in other books, so you had to figure out the rules of that scifi universe as you went along.

I agree about treading carefully and keeping questions open-ended, and I love the idea of giving her a book that you enjoyed. Mum did that a couple of times: when I was 7 she gave me Seven Little Australians for Christmas, and when I was 11 she lent me her old copy of Picnic at Hanging Rock. I bawled my eyes out both times. (I don't THINK that was her intention?!) I wasn't keen on the thought of reading either at first, but once I started reading them I realised that I would have missed out on a great story, and somehow it meant a bit more, that I was enjoying a story that she had enjoyed when she was around my age.

I definitely mixed trash (Thoroughbred) with classics (Austen) at that age, but then again in my family all the kids devoured books, Mum was the same as a kid, and Dad always read magazines and newspapers over breakfast and lunch, so reading was encouraged for sure. I remember really getting into fantasy at that age. A friend introduced me to Tamora Pierce's books, which I LOVED because they had female protagonists who, if I recall correctly, were definitely capable of kicking butt. I also asked for a copy of The Hobbit for Christmas: my teacher read it to the class during the year and we did a lot of art and comprehension activities around the story so that we could understand it better. If it hadn't've been for that I wouldn't've thought of touching it! I also finally got into Harry Potter, about half a year after it became really popular.

I think I was 13 when I got into Eddings (thanks to the friend mentioned above). I loved Polgara, and it didn't matter to me that a lot of the main characters were male.

I love your picture, Moonlitefairy06! I recall reading Twilight years before it became popular (I was 16) and thinking it was just okay-ish. I don't remember getting too feminist over it - that came later - but Bella wasn't my type of role model so I was in no danger from it anyway, thankfully!

If you choose to discuss the book with her, be very careful how you do it. You don't want to make it sound like a test or some kind of cross-examination.

I wouldn't worry too much about the quality of the book and the "bad role models" portrayed. I think kids aren't that easy to influence. I was a truly voracious reader as a child. I would read absolutely anything I could get my hands on. Funny story: I wasn't always allowed to read while having dinner. When I wasn't, I usually spent most of the dinner reading ingredients lists off food. I read quality books, but also truly trashy novels. And I still do! There are times when I'm too tired to read anything thought-provoking. Finally, to all those who are recommending classics: if you're concerned about female role models, some classics present terrible female role models, most likely because of the historical context they were written in.