Poll: Arts / Debates

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re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By Cadbury_Eatermember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 7575, member since Sat Jan 04, 2003
On Sat Jan 28, 2012 02:00 AM
In Australia now, you have to stay in school until you are 17 essentially. My year's the first for this rule to affect.

It honestly meant they had to put resources and time into Applied programs essentially everyone dropped out of until they were 17. They just disrupted the school, and it was a waste of time and effort. Some kids aren't academics, and no point keeping them at school when you could be getting them TAFE courses or practical apprenticeships or even a full time job.

That said, I think kids should at least complete Year 10. (Normally be 16 when they do that).
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18? (karma: 2)
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 8688, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Sat Jan 28, 2012 08:26 AM
Forcing high school kids to stay will also cause diploma inflation. Someone mentioned that high school drop outs can't get job. If everyone had a high school degree, it would take a college degree to flip burgers!

I think high school mandatory until 16 weeds out unmotivated teens, it isn't like they cant go back to school later. They can get a GED then go to a community college, then transfer. By forcing everyone to stay in school until 18, that is forcing the motivated individuals to stay in school longer for minimum entry jobs.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 15031, member since Thu Feb 14, 2002
On Sat Jan 28, 2012 01:01 PM
I have a friend whose parents were rather inept - his dad was a meth head and his mom was an alcoholic. He started working under-the-table at age 13 to get money to pay for new shoes. And food. and such. He dropped out of high school at age 16. He's a chef, and he got his GED eventually (not sure when). He hopes to start his own computer repair business eventually.

Diplomas and degrees aren't necessary for success. It's a closed-minded, culturally-based problem of society that a lot of us have this mentality.

Forcing high school kids to stay will also cause diploma inflation. Someone mentioned that high school drop outs can't get job. If everyone had a high school degree, it would take a college degree to flip burgers!

SERIOUSLY. This is part of the problem why we have so many unemployed college grads right now. A Master's is the new BA. You can't really do anything with a Bachelor's. It's supply & demand... not everyone is supposed to go to college; not everyone is supposed to graduate high school. When you screw with the system you screw it up for everyone else, too. It just pushes that "entry-level requirement" higher.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By slice Comments: 1247, member since Fri Oct 15, 2004
On Sat Jan 28, 2012 01:12 PM
Heart wrote:

Diplomas and degrees aren't necessary for success. It's a closed-minded, culturally-based problem of society that a lot of us have this mentality.


^^^This! And those who don't perform well with classroom education might flourish in other areas, but unfortunately many high schools do not promote these options.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By dancingthrulife1 Comments: 428, member since Mon Jan 14, 2008
On Sat Jan 28, 2012 02:35 PM
Required to pursue an education until 18, yes, definitely.

Required to sit in school for 8 hours, five days a week? Not in the case of extreme bullying, behavioral or social problems that require treatment and alternative learning methods, or in the case of kids working to support their families. In those cases, homeschooling or an online education might better suit the circumstances.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By mandakp Comments: 566, member since Fri Aug 05, 2011
On Sun Jan 29, 2012 01:06 PM
In my area of Australia, you have to stay in school until you get your school certificate (you'll be 17, or turning 17), unless you "drop out" into a trade apprenticeship or TAFE course. Before this, the law was that you could drop out when you had turned 15, but I quite like this way. I like that they make you finish an education of some sort, they're not forcing you to be an academic, they are giving you the option of turning to a trade instead, and we also have a local agricultural college (we're a rural town), so really, there is something for everyone.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By Dream_chaserPremium member Comments: 25854, member since Thu Jul 26, 2001
On Sun Jan 29, 2012 01:13 PM
dancingthrulife1 wrote:

Required to pursue an education until 18, yes, definitely.

Required to sit in school for 8 hours, five days a week? Not in the case of extreme bullying, behavioral or social problems that require treatment and alternative learning methods, or in the case of kids working to support their families. In those cases, homeschooling or an online education might better suit the circumstances.


The perfect solution. Not necessarily in a school building but going for that diploma. I wish that my son had the choice of homeschooling in high school. He quit as soon as he turned 18 (long story) and it honestly was not his fault. The school wanted him to stay longer than he needed. He had all credits but for one class. He wanted to take ONE class. No, he had to stay for classes he did not need. He quit, got a job, took his GED test, got 100 percent on it and that was that. He could not graduate with his friends.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By Danser42 Comments: 19, member since Sat Sep 25, 2010
On Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:21 PM
I graduated just before I turned eighteen. I didn't skip any years either, but I know people who have skipped two or three years of school and graduated well before eighteen. I mean what about people who have already skipped when this law comes in, do they just have to repeat their final year a couple of times before they turn eighteen? That seems rather pointless to me.

Not only that, for some kids, school is genuinely painful. People can drop out at fifteen, start their own business, and become millionaires (seen it happen). I fail to see a problem with this if that's what makes them happy. I also know people who have finished school and never tried to make anything of themselves. If you want to go to university straight out of high school, then yes, you will need to finish school, but higher education isn't for everybody, and even if someone hasn't finished school, doesn't mean to say that they can't still read, educate themselves and improve their mind, and a lot of people who I know who did leave early do so.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By kandykanePremium member Comments: 16415, member since Mon May 01, 2006
On Mon Jan 30, 2012 09:33 AM
Edited by kandykane (157761) on 2012-01-30 09:51:15
Finishing high school early is fine, even great. Never said it wasn't. However, here at least, the system does not allow GED testing before age 18. Some of that has to do with law and the age of consent. You cannot legally sign a document until you are 18. So, no I don't think a 16 or 17 year old should be treated like an adult and given power over legal decisions when they cannot even sign a document, vote, etc.

There is an alternative school near me which allows kids to go half a day to school and graduate sooner or catch up, or whatever, based on their individual needs. Maybe that's a good compromise? Even though some academic snobs do look down on it, at least the kids can graduate with an official HS diploma.

I know of few dropouts who have become millionaires and even though it does happen on occasion, I would venture to say that is a rarity. I wonder what kind of statistics are available for all this? Success rates, dropouts vs graduates, etc.

kk~
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By oz_helenmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 11196, member since Sat Aug 10, 2002
On Mon Jan 30, 2012 06:57 PM
I have absolutely no problem with people leaving school in order to get a trade or join the workforce in some capacity. Many teens are better placed in alternative educational or training environments and if it was mandatory to attend an actual high school program, you'd have a lot of disruptive and unmotivated students in the last couple of years of school that would be better off elsewhere.

Helen
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By Moonlitefairy06member has saluted, click to view salute photos Comments: 7177, member since Fri Apr 16, 2004
On Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:27 PM
A;l of these alternative programs sound great in theory, and perhaps some kids would greatly benefit from them. But we simply can't afford it. It's sad, but we have dug ourselves into a hole. School taxes are already very high (at least where I live) and going up constantly without these special programs. We are all dreaming of perfect worlds and perfect solutions but it just doesn't work.

Plus, we still need blue collar jobs in order to function as country and at the rate we are going, you are going to need a PhD to be a secretary (and I don't mean Warren Buffett's secretary who is the 1%, but thats off topic)
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By RileyA Comments: 3120, member since Tue Jan 03, 2006
On Tue Jan 31, 2012 04:20 AM
The rule where I live in Australia is that you can leave school either when you are 16 or have completed 10th Grade. But then you have to go into a learning or earning phase. In the learning or earning phase you must be in some type of education or full time work until you either graduate high school or turn 17, which ever comes first.

Our schools don't just offer academic programs in 11th and 12th grades. You can go to school and do a full vocational program instead. You can learn a trade at school instead of study things like maths and science. There are all sorts of subjects which teach practical tools and are not academic at all. They don't count towards university entrance but the kids who take them don't want to go to university.

But what do we do about those kids who really don't want to be there. There are lots of problems in our schools with violence, drugs, alcohol, disruptive behavior, disrespect and abuse to staff. Schools can suspend or expel them but if the kids are being forced to stay I doubt this will be too effective. And what about kids who have been expelled from school how do the laws work for them.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By Panda_Bear Comments: 410, member since Tue Feb 02, 2010
On Thu Feb 02, 2012 02:55 PM
I think that every one should have some sort of training in the feild that they want to enter. High schools need to offer trades and work place type programs as well as the accedmics, where I live the high school only offers accedemic courses with a few basic electives ( foods, wood work, metal work, pe, drama, art) the rest are all accedemic courses ( math, chemistry, physics, biology, earth science, french, spanish, history, geography, compartive civlizations, programming, law , calculus) those were the choices in my grade 11 and 12 years. All this did was force the students who were not accedemically inclined to be disruptive in class and to not do very well at school. How ever if there were trades related courses offered they would have done much better and felt way better about them selves.

Basically all students should stay in some sort of training or education program until age 18 or they complete it.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By SiyoNqobamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 7113, member since Fri Aug 02, 2002
On Thu Feb 02, 2012 05:51 PM
Edited by SiyoNqoba (34789) on 2012-02-02 17:53:54
In New Zealand, there are three levels of the National Certificate of Educational Achievement. Level 1 is usually completed when the young person is 15 - 16 years old, Level 2 at 16 - 17 years old, and Level 3 at 17 - 18 years old. Students may leave school any time after completing Level 1. On rare occasions, if you wish to leave school before achieving Level 1, you must have special permission from the school and your parents/caregivers, and you must have something to do instead of school (a job, an apprenticeship, a course etc). University entrance is gained during Level 3, however there are a certain amount of credits needed from all three Levels in order to achieve this.

It seems to work quite well. Young people aren't forced to stay in school if they have something else that they could do that would provide them with more of an opportunity to do what they want to do in life. The difference is that in New Zealand, there is a lot of room for trade. You don't have to have a degree to be a worker on a farm, and apprenticeships are quite common here.

Obviously, it's not perfect. There are still too many 15 and 16 year olds doing nothing and going no where. But it does allow young people to take a lot more control over their own lives and future.

That being said, my children will all complete NCEA Level 3. Not only are they just more likely to (by the time our children are in school, my husband and I will probably both have post-graduate degrees and studies have suggested that highly educated parents are more likely to raise highly educated children), but it provides them with so many more opportunities that I don't think I'd let them rob themselves of that.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By TheatreDanceNerd Comments: 128, member since Mon Mar 26, 2012
On Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:36 AM
Edited by TheatreDanceNerd (247730) on 2012-04-23 11:39:02
I definitely think that it should be mandatory. It just makes life easier and makes getting good jobs easier as well. There were many subjects I really struggled through during school, but I completed them eventually and learned from that. I know quite a few people that dropped out, and it's definitely harder for them now. I don't really think people should have to redo a grade more than 2-3 times, though. This might sound a bit contradictory, but if a grade isn't completed after 3 times through, they're not learning a thing, and the next grade might be different. But if they do that a few times, I believe that that person should have to have some sort of extra help/tutor person or be made to change how they do it, and be worked with until they understand that thing. I think that the parents should be helping with this too, and the parents may be able to help decide with the teachers, and go through what the student needs to do/needs to learn properly.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By hylndlasmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 7170, member since Wed Sep 22, 2004
On Tue May 01, 2012 05:38 PM
The age you graduate has to do with when they actually allow you to start school.....at least in Maryland and in Florida.

For instance.....my daughter was born in Dec but since she wasn't 3 in Sept she couldn't start 3 Pre K. She will however next yeart at almost four.

It seems unfair that my almost 4 year old will have to start school late because she was wasn't 3 when school started last year. Instead she will be almost 4 with kids who have just turned 3.

I was 19 when I graduated....and I gotta say from experience it stunk being one of the oldest kids in my class.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By RileyA Comments: 3120, member since Tue Jan 03, 2006
On Sun May 06, 2012 01:48 AM
You make a good point about age hylndlas. If the school leaving age was raised to 18, would it not mean that some kids would have to finish school because they don't turn 18 until after graduation, some kids would end up finishing school just a little while after they turn 18 (if you have a month to go you may as well finish) and some kids will turn 18 well before finishing. So basically that means your odds of graduation will greatly increase due to the time you were born in the year.

Having a high school certificate increases you employability. This should be based on your own commitment not the month of the year you were born in.

It also means that if a kid repeats a grade and becomes a year older they will be a year older and be able to drop out before they finish school. While those who are of age will graduate around their 18th birthday and will be more likely to finish. Parents will push for their children to start school earlier (when they are not ready) and not repeat grades (when it could really benefit them) because both these will increase the likelihood of dropping out.

For the record I was also 19 when I graduated and found it to be an advantage, not a disadvantage to be older than the rest as far as academic success, social success and just general all around maturity. Some kids need this and we should not discourage it.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By dancer7210 Comments: 283, member since Tue Aug 28, 2012
On Sat Oct 13, 2012 06:48 PM
I voted other, but I guess I really should have clicked yes! I think all kids under 18 should have to go to high school unless they have a really good reason not to, and a parent says they can drop out. The only reason I can think of would be a health issue, either mental or physical.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By reel_faerie85member has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 4130, member since Mon Mar 08, 2010
On Sat Oct 13, 2012 09:32 PM
In the UK you have to be 16 to leave school...although I think this is also changing to 18.

I would like to see a more structured education system which actually teaches life skills.

I think there should be an option at 16 to either join the military or a trade as an apprentice or stay on at school until you are 18. There should be clear career paths with jobs at the end.

I know in reality it would be nigh on impossible to have a job for everyone at the end but the dream is there.

That way there wouldn't be a shortage of plumbers, dentists, nurses, electricians etc.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By Ballet_dance Comments: 7, member since Sat Jun 18, 2016
On Tue Jun 21, 2016 05:17 AM
Crazy_Claire wrote:

I know here in the UK they have changed the rules now so that people starting from my brothers year at school (Born in 1997) will have to stay on until they're 18. I think in Australia it is mandatory to stay in school until aged 18.

But here we also have more practical courses rather than just academic ones. They are qualifications known as BTECs and NVQs in certain subjects. There are so many of them, anything from Manual Labour stuff - brick laying, construction, etc to Hairdressing right through to Business and Health and Social Care. So there is quite a broad range for young people to choose from. And these qualifications do equal a certain number of A-Levels (more practical, traditional and academic based study) and this converts into points for University courses.

I think unless someone has a job to go straight out to or an apprenticeship then they should stay on and do something that they are interested in, just so they have the qualifications and experience to get a job. Like I said, there is such a range that accommodates people interested in all kinds of stuff and those who want a more practical course. These courses often involve work placements so students are getting hands on experience too in addition to valuable qualifications.

I can see both sides of it though, as some have said, that not everyone is cut out for the more academic geared courses, but I think the range available offers everyone a chance, however they learn and whatever their interests are to do something that will be valued and recognised outside of the school/college/6th form environment.

Claire.


You just have to stay in education or training (not school) until 18 and this is only in England not other parts of the U.K. According to the gov.uk site:


England
You can leave school on the last Friday in June if you’ll be 16 by the end of the summer holidays.

You must then do one of the following until you’re 18:

stay in full-time education, eg at a college
start an apprenticeship or traineeship
work or volunteer (for 20 hours or more a week) while in part-time education or training

Scotland
If you turn 16 between 1 March and 30 September you can leave school after 31 May of that year.

If you turn 16 between 1 October and the end of February you can leave at the start of the Christmas holidays in that school year.

Wales
You can leave school on the last Friday in June, as long as you’ll be 16 by the end of that school year’s summer holidays.

Northern Ireland
If you turn 16 during the school year (between 1 September and 1 July) you can leave school after 30 June.

If you turn 16 between 2 July and 31 August you can’t leave school until 30 June the following year

www.gov.uk . . .
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By schuhplattlerPremium member Comments: 3037, member since Sat Dec 23, 2006
On Tue Jun 21, 2016 05:38 AM
It's either mandate such school attendance or lower the age of full legal responsibility. Have you ever endured the crimes of those who cannot be held fully accountable?
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By Theresamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 34891, member since Wed May 22, 2002
On Mon Jun 27, 2016 05:35 PM
I think they need to be getting AN education until the age of 18. And that takes a lot of forms. GED? Alternative school? Trade School? High School? I took some classes at a community college, and one of the professors I had, her parents pulled her out of high school, and sent her on to college. She had her first college degree before most people had their high school diploma. "Education" takes a lot of forms.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By hummingbird Comments: 10412, member since Mon Apr 18, 2005
On Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:19 PM
I left school at 16 in England to go to a vocational ballet school. My husband left school at 16 when he got his first job (also in the UK) he now has a degree and several diplomas in the field he now works in so he hasn't done too bad for what would be termed a high school drop out in the US. At age 16 you have to take your GCE exams, I don't think you have an equivalent in the US, we certainly don't in Canada.

In Ireland you can leave school at 16 when you take your junior cert exams but you have to prove that you're either in a job or an apprenticeship.
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By Chaconnemember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 6359, member since Thu Jul 12, 2007
On Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:13 AM
Hummingbird.....Is that CGE what Brits are referring to when they speak of "O levels or A levels" in education exams? When do they enter what we would call a university?


Jon
re: Should individuals be mandated to attend high school until they reach age 18?
By hummingbird Comments: 10412, member since Mon Apr 18, 2005
On Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:46 PM
O'Levels were phased out when I left school and that was a very long time ago :)

I did notice a typo in my post though, it's a GCSE General Certificate of Secondary Education which is what you take normally at sixteen, this is what replaced the O'Levels and CSE's. They can be taken earlier.

A'Levels are the exams you take generally when you're eighteen at Sixth Form College and are the exams you need to enter university.
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