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The F word... (karma: 2)  en>fr fr>en
By Emmamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 6897, member since Mon Nov 29, 2004
On Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:02 PM

I actually have this issue of this magazine, I enjoyed it... I also really appreciate this article that a friend wrote regarding the magazine.

talatyaq.wordpress.com . . .

85 Replies to The F word...

re: The F word... (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 14987, member since Thu Feb 14, 2002
On Mon Apr 09, 2012 05:53 PM
Edited by Heart (21721) on 2012-04-09 17:55:12
Edited by Heart (21721) on 2012-04-09 17:57:35
Gag me with a spoon. What drivel.

I am female and I reserve the right to read my trashy magazines with pictures of eye candy men, beauty tips, and celeb gossip. It doesn't make me any less in favor of women's rights.

Cosmo does encourage healthy body image, losing weight with diet and exercise, and sunless tanning, just for starters. Most of their sex articles suggest positions that feel good for the ladies or, better yet, both partners (and aren't we all about equality?). I think the content of their articles pretty much toes the feminist line. There's never any kowtowing to the man - if a guy's being douchey, the advice is to dump him, and so on.

But it's an entertainment mag and a business. Blame the market if you want, but whining about the ads? Really? How do you think magazines earn money?!

Sorry, but I WANT my fashion tips, sex advice, and tanned models with eight-packs and it DOESN'T make me any less of a 'feminist.' I'm not objectifying myself if I want to look good. It's actually good for my self-esteem. Looking hot makes you feel fantastic.

This is why people hate feminists. As if 90% of Cosmo's articles weren't about how to achieve FEMALE orgasm.
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By madseasonPremium member Comments: 1975, member since Wed Jan 04, 2006
On Mon Apr 09, 2012 06:22 PM
Edited by madseason (148702) on 2012-04-09 18:24:44 Spelling
Edited by madseason (148702) on 2012-04-09 18:25:39 I swear I can write....
^ Well, let's not abuse the term 'feminist' here Heart. I think you mean extreme feminists. Because I am a feminist and all that means is that I support the social equality of the sexes. That is, actually, what being a feminist means. I doubt you would disagree that even you, by the true definition, are a feminist: Someone supporting the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.

That said, I pretty much agree with Heart. Cosmo is a magazine targeted at women for a reason. The Editor-in-cheif and writers are (almost all) women. Women buy it because it appeals to them, not because poor innocent women just don't know better and evil men and forcing women to buy it. Pick up a GQ, Esquire or a Sports Illustrated, and you'll see all sorts of similar stuff: articles telling men how to make their bodies more attractive for women and lose weight, how to groom, how to be more manly, how to be better lovers, how to be more macho, images sexualizing women, etc. Guys buy it, read it and enjoy it by their own choice. Just like women buy and read Cosmo by their own choice. If you don't like it, don't read it.

I don't read girly mags. I'm not a girly girl. I read Runners World and Revolutionart where there are no sex tips to be found. But the big thing here is if you really don't like it, just don't read it. I hate seeing some of those cheap womens health mags with new fad diets on the cover and cleanses (fad diets and cleanses don't work). It bothers me because I know that it's manipulating people who don't know better into thinking there is a quick fix inside, and they too, can eat pineapples and ice cream and lose 30 lbs in six days.
What do I do? I just don't buy those magazines or support them and go on with my life.
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 14987, member since Thu Feb 14, 2002
On Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:42 PM
I don't self-identify as a feminist due to the connotations but I think that being a feminist doesn't lie in what you call yourself, but in what you do. My actions make me a feminist. I prefer the term "equalist." Same difference without evoking images of bra-burning hippies. /offtopic
re: The F word... (karma: 3)  en>fr fr>en
By oz_helenmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 11196, member since Sat Aug 10, 2002
On Tue Apr 10, 2012 01:21 AM
I am a feminist. My husband is a feminist. So is my (male) best friend.

I find it very interesting that in the last couple of days this issue in Wisconsin regarding pay parity and this article from Ashley Judd about pervasive misogyny have both been getting some attention.

To me, it proves that feminism shouldn't be a dirty word. You know why? Because if we allow ourselves to think the battle has been won and that men and women are on equal footing, then it is far more likely that the rug will be pulled from underneath us. And to be honest, inequity is as bad for men as it is for women.

Helen
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 14987, member since Thu Feb 14, 2002
On Tue Apr 10, 2012 01:34 PM
I can count on one hand the amount of times I really felt discriminated against because of my gender. It would be completely disingenuous for me to say that it's an important issue for me.

As for "misogyny"? I don't think I've EVER encountered that. It's a very strong term and not one that I would ever use to describe someone. The hatred of women? Way too overdramatic for me.

It doesn't make me any less of a 21st-century woman to say that. If something isn't relevant to my life, then of course it's not going to be on my radar. That's the way it is for a lot of ladies these days. When you're a money-making, independent female with her own crib and money in the bank, obviously whining about misogyny is going to ring false. I'm going into a male-dominated career, but I've never faced any discrimination in my field.

I disagree with what this article terms as "misogynistic," and I don't have a problem with Cosmo as a magazine. In the same vein, I don't whine about the makers of Jersey Shore as being hateful and discriminatory of New Jerseyans. It's entertainment.

There are certain women's rights issues I do identify with. What this article is discussing is not one of them. That's why I do not self-identify as a feminist. Speak for yourself if you don't think that you're "on equal footing" with the males around you. That hasn't been my experience.

...but I'm sure I'll be the only person on DDN who's willing to say this, so yay, bring it.
re: The F word... (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By oz_helenmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 11196, member since Sat Aug 10, 2002
On Wed Apr 11, 2012 01:29 AM
Just because you've been fortunate enough not to face blatant discrimination doesn't mean you won't face it in the future. Did you read the first link? Your comment only refers to the second.

Martin Niemöller wrote:

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.


Helen
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 14987, member since Thu Feb 14, 2002
On Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:46 AM
I have faced blatant discrimination. You do remember my police story, don't you?

Heart wrote:

There are certain women's rights issues I do identify with. What this article is discussing is not one of them.


It takes away from the serious stuff when we focus on the stupid stuff.

I don't what "second article" you're referring to, but if it's the Ashley Judd one, her tone is so pretentious and the subject matter so dull I couldn't get through the entire thing. I fail to see how commenting on an obvious weight gain (which she doesn't even deny) is misogynistic. I don't even know who Ashley Judd is.

In conclusion, this thread has now been Godwinned. On the first page, too. That's got to be a record.

Image hotlink - 'http://i43.tinypic.com/w2buk0.png'
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By hummingbird Comments: 8370, member since Mon Apr 18, 2005
On Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:04 PM
Just because you found Ashley Judd's article boring that means that this whole thread is null and void?

That's just a little bit high handed isn't it?
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 14987, member since Thu Feb 14, 2002
On Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:39 PM
Edited by Heart (21721) on 2012-04-13 12:45:28
Edited by Heart (21721) on 2012-04-13 12:49:04
Edited by Heart (21721) on 2012-04-13 12:52:50
Do you know what Godwin's Law is?

Know Your Meme:
Image hotlink - 'http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/004/594/godwindef.jpg?1246558403'
re: The F word... (karma: 4)  en>fr fr>en
By ChristinePremium member Comments: 6118, member since Wed Feb 04, 2009
On Fri Apr 13, 2012 05:25 PM
^I hope you didn't mean to sound rude with this, "do you know...." reply.

Yes, I'm sure Hummingbird is familiar with this easily googled piece of inter-net slang, but I suspect that the point oz_helen was making was more subtle and poetic. Perhaps like me,Hummingbird read the comment less literally.

Additionally, Emma started a thread on a subject she wanted explored by anyone interested in entering a discussion. Discussion as in "back and forth". She doesn't need a referee to declare "game over".

Let's all play nice, shall we?

Keep On Dancing*
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By Heartmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 14987, member since Thu Feb 14, 2002
On Fri Apr 13, 2012 09:48 PM
Right, serious business. Sorry, forgot for a second.

Of course it's meant to sound exactly the way it should. The analogy is ridiculous, offensive and over-the-top, especially when I explicitly state that there are certain topics I agree with. I have experienced ACTUAL gender-based abuse, and saying that any of this horse doody is comparable is pure bunk.

That's what I'm trying to point out. but we all known feminists have no sense of humor

Image hotlink - 'http://i.qkme.me/5ykr.jpg'
re: The F word... (karma: 2)  en>fr fr>en
By lux Comments: 1131, member since Mon Jun 02, 2008
On Sat Apr 14, 2012 07:47 AM
Heart wrote:

I have faced blatant discrimination. You do remember my police story, don't you?


I for one honestly don't, and I'm uncertain as to why you assume that Oz_Helen does- there are literally hundreds of active members here, how can you possibly assume that she remembers the details of one member's life so easily? Or am I missing something here?
re: The F word... (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By Emmamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 6897, member since Mon Nov 29, 2004
On Sat Apr 14, 2012 02:42 PM
Yeah... I've actually read the article in the magazine, the point being that the word feminist doesn't have, or shouldn't have, all the negative connotations associated with it. I also fully read the link that I gave in the thread, including the letter at the bottom, which was the main point of it.

All I was doing was trying to get a thread going on what feminism actually means to everyone currently, how far do you (personally) take it? And someone came along and said I'm not a feminist because I don't burn my bra and I like to shave my legs, therefore, this entire thread is basically a massive pile of faeces and I want to make sure that everyone knows it by arguing with people who disagree. (Except maybe less succinctly than that, and not in those exact words, but the meaning was clearly inferred.)

_____


If you'll take a breather, and read the link, she's talking about an article she enjoyed, in a magazine that contradicted itself, she clearly read the rest of the magazine, and found that it had editor-approved content that contradicted that particular article. (Not just advertisements.)

I totally agree that cosmo is a magazine that needs to sell copies, and can't do that without advertisements, and has limited control over the content of those.

What I really wanted to discuss was, how far do you take feminism, this article about equality etc. was side by side with the objectification of the opposite sex and men discussing the merits and lack thereof of female celebrities' fashion.

I definitely agree with Helen's point, speak up for people who don't have equality, because if they don't, then the powers that be might try to take it away from you too.

I'm unsure why you think we're focusing on the stupid stuff? Self-objectification? I don't think that's stupid, I'm not an object, I don't dress in an overtly sexy way, because I will never allow myself to be seen like that, and that's something that annoys me about cosmo, but I buy it (in all honesty) for the sex tips, and the pictures of all the pretty clothes and shoes (and that's not about objectification until they slant it that way, which they did, in this particular issue, which also had the contradictory feminist article.)

And I vaguely remember the police story, I remember how upset you were about the whole thing because they basically acted like they hated that you were there.... What's that?!?! Oh yes, I think that's misogyny. Hm.

____


To get back to the main point... What exactly do you consider important for feminists today? And I really hope that you actually use the f word, and although if you look at it's etymology it may have once meant bra-burners, I hope you have allowed for it's meaning to evolve into what it should be today, and stand up proudly as a feminist.
re: The F word... (karma: 4)  en>fr fr>en
By Cienmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 6041, member since Tue Dec 20, 2005
On Sat Apr 14, 2012 03:20 PM
For me, feminism means treating all people equally. I think it's become more than just "women aren't treated equally to men." Trans women, women with disabilities, queer people, bisexual women, and women of color have been historically and systematically ignored and pushed aside by white feminism in many, many instances. So not only do we have work to do with respect to gaining equality with men, but we have to be conscious of the presence and contributions of all kinds of women. For me, feminism is about working to make sure all women are treated equally to each other as well as to men. This means acknowledging and combating racism, classism, ableism, transphobia, and fat-shaming wherever they happen--even if that means learning to shut ourselves up and listen.

Feminism, to me, is about expanding and challenging gender roles and stereotypes (for women, men, and everyone in between). In doing this, it's important to remember that while there are some universal stereotypes for each gender, there are others that are unique to certain groups of women and men. Those need to be acknowledged within their cultural and racial contexts and addressed with the input of the people they constrain in order to be successfully broken down.

At the same time, I think it's also essential to recognize that everyone chooses how to live their life. If we're going to bemoan the way women have been/are being told what to do, we have to stop hating on other women's choices, because the thing about choice is that someone might not choose the option you like. Some women prefer to be stay-at-home moms and wives, and that's fine--to me, those are full-time jobs that deserve compensation just as women who work full-time in offices receive. Many women love makeup and fashion, which is also perfectly acceptable. For me, the point of this part of feminism is to work for better, equal conditions for women everywhere, no matter what their workplace or location.

If you are an equalist, you are most likely also a feminist. Being a feminist does not mean wanting to tear down the rights and privileges men already have so that we can be queens of the world. Being a feminist does not mean curtailing rights for anybody; it means expanding rights for everyone. If you think that being an equalist is the opposite of being a feminist, you are working from an outdated, stereotypical, and incorrect definition of feminism.

I'd also like to point out that the bra-burning thing never actually happened. A journalist made that up to attract readers.
re: The F word... (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By oz_helenmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 11196, member since Sat Aug 10, 2002
On Sun Apr 15, 2012 03:31 AM
Edited by oz_helen (35388) on 2012-04-15 03:35:31 typo
Heart wrote:

I have faced blatant discrimination. You do remember my police story, don't you?


Actually, no I don't.

I don't what "second article" you're referring to


The Wisconsin pay parity one. You only commented about the Ashley Judd link.

The reason I posted both is that they were telling both sides - both the pay parity "campaign" Cosmo is running plus the issue that many people have about magazines like Cosmo.

I understand you don't have a problem with Cosmo, Heart, but this thread is not just about you.

Helen
re: The F word... (karma: 4)  en>fr fr>en
By ChristinePremium member Comments: 6118, member since Wed Feb 04, 2009
On Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:12 AM
That's what I'm trying to point out. but we all known feminists have no sense of humor


A statement like this, even if there is a single line through the rudest part of it, demonstrates an incredible insensitivity to the plight of more than half the global population. Some who enjoy the benefits of the struggles of women who have gone before them may not be aware of the global implications of "feminism", but just because some women of privilege can "honestly say" they have NEVER felt the sting of gender inequality, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
Image hotlink - 'http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4s7tPptRw5hT39DMPPxq90n0C3ujmgmRYqxTg8KaKIC0CzsI-cA'
As long as a single woman is treated unjustly because they had the misfortune to be born female, every one of us, male and female, are morally obligated to work for justice.

Keep On Dancing*
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By ChristinePremium member Comments: 6118, member since Wed Feb 04, 2009
On Sun Apr 15, 2012 02:06 PM
Too late to add to post ^.

Each of us has the right and responsibility to asess the roads which lie ahead and those over which we have traveled, and if the future road looms ominous or unpromising and the roads back uninviting, then we need to gather our resolve and, carrying only the necessary baggage, step off that road into another direction.

- Maya Angelou


It takes a village to free a woman.

Keep On Dancing*
re: The F word... (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 7988, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Sun Apr 15, 2012 02:28 PM
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2012-04-15 14:31:28
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2012-04-15 14:44:07 I should type better. Bad YYD!
I admit I haven't really read all the articles posted on here so I may be off base. I just read the original article in question. She mentions that she likes looking good BUT at the same time made judgemental comments on how the magazine is run.

Why can't you be super smoking hot AND capable of being an equal to men in the workforce? I don't think you have to chose one or the other. I also have to ask, what in the world is wrong at wanting to look sexy for the opposite sex on your non-work days? Yes, I understand that the article writer says that she puts on red lipstick and wants to look nice etc YET at the same time she is judging Cosmo for putting half naked men in the magazine.
Sure, appearance SHOULDN'T be the most important thing, but caring about my appearance to appeal to the opposite sex doesn't make me unfeminist. I care about equal rights in the workforce, politics, and education. If I want to be the sex kitten outside of the office, that doesn't mean I throw away my "equal values" once I get into the office again.

If I am reading my Cosmo, am I going to take the sex tips I learn and apply it to my professional life? OF COURSE NOT! I think women reading Cosmo know that there is more to a person then JUST beauty. It is a beauty magazine, so they better be giving me tips on how to improve my outer looks. I would be pissed if I bought a beauty magazine and it was filled with ways on how to improve my IQ.

If I want to look at Cosmo to improve my physical looks as a hot female and read Forbes Magazine for my business side, does that make me not a feminist?

I am a feminist who doesn't mind being wearing high heels and being a sex kitten outside of the workforce.

I am not referring to any DDN members in particular but here is my personal experience with dealing with feminist holding rallies in my city. They use the word "sex" and "objectify sexually" like it is a bad thing. SEX IS NATURAL! It is natural to objectify someone and to want them sexually, sex drive is an important and normal part of our life. To complain about semi-naked men in a magazine seems to be going against the natural sexual craving of another being.
This shouldn't be brought into the office, but I think it is natural to notice the opposite sex in the work force. It doesn't mean you should pay one gender less, or you don't give them equal rights though.

Bottom line, don't fill Forbes magazines with beauty tips, and don't fill Cosmo with stock prices!
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 7988, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Sun Apr 15, 2012 03:09 PM
*Update*

I just read the 2 articles posted later in the thread. They are taking on the whole feminism argument in a TOTALLY different way then the original topic. I just wanted to point out that my previous comment was JUST in reference to the original post and I am not commenting about the Wisconsin issue or the issue with Ashley Judd.

I am not even going to try and get tangled into this web of commentary referring to things outside of the OP. I admit I don't know enough about the topic in general to make a educated response.
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By ChristinePremium member Comments: 6118, member since Wed Feb 04, 2009
On Sun Apr 15, 2012 04:13 PM
^and this is part of the difficulty with "the F word"...the title of the original post.

To believe that fashion choices are a fair or accurate indication of political or moral positions is at best, shallow.

For the record, I see nothing wrong, in fact I see everything RIGHT with both men and women enhancing their physical appearance to whatever degree pleases them personally. I don't expect anyone to remember this about me, but I am a Jackie Kennedy wannabee. Given the choice to dress up, or dress down...I dress up. Given a chance to show off my dancer's legs in a short skirt, or my pretty feet in red shoes...I take it.

So do some of my favorite men...


and as much as I love James, I certainly couldn't discern his position on feminism by viewing his attire.

YYD... please continue to dress as you please. And pray for women everywhere who are forced to wear a burqa, struck with a stick by roving bands of young men if their ankles peak out from beneath at the market place,
Image hotlink - 'http://iranpoliticsclub.net/islam/women-before-after/images/Taliban%20hitting%20Afghan%20Women.jpg'
or are denied a job if they don't wear a short skirt.

Feminism is only about attire when someone other than a woman is making her fashion choices for her.

Image hotlink - 'http://open.az/uploads/posts/2011-09/thumbs/1316433052_aisha2.jpg'
abcnewsradioonline.com . . .

We are all better than this.

Keep On Dancing*
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By Cienmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 6041, member since Tue Dec 20, 2005
On Sun Apr 15, 2012 05:20 PM
Edited by CienPorCientoPAZ (147923) on 2012-04-15 17:21:06
Edited by CienPorCientoPAZ (147923) on 2012-04-15 17:23:08
YumYumDoughnut wrote:

Why can't you be super smoking hot AND capable of being an equal to men in the workforce? I don't think you have to chose one or the other. I also have to ask, what in the world is wrong at wanting to look sexy for the opposite sex on your non-work days?

Well, if I remember correctly (which I do), I said:
we have to stop hating on other women's choices


YYD wrote:

If I am reading my Cosmo, am I going to take the sex tips I learn and apply it to my professional life?

I am pretty sure no one would apply sex tips to their professional life...

YYD wrote:

I am a feminist who doesn't mind being wearing high heels and being a sex kitten outside of the workforce.

Once again, I said:
Many women love makeup and fashion, which is also perfectly acceptable.

So welcome to the club! Feminists Who Like Makeup and Fashion. We even have t-shirts.

YYD wrote:

SEX IS NATURAL! It is natural to objectify someone and to want them sexually, sex drive is an important and normal part of our life.

You're equating two things that are not the same at all. Sex drive is natural, sex is natural, of course. But the objectification of women (and, increasingly, men) the way it's done in popular media today? That is NOT natural, and that is NOT acceptable. When we talk about the objectification of women, we're talking about the way women are continually displayed in the media as nothing more than objects and toys to be used for other people's advantage and desire. You're confusing "objectification" with "being attracted to someone." They are not the same. You're assuming, and rightly so, that people are complex human beings with more to them than just their sexual desires and intentions. The media deliberately excludes those natural human variations and complexities from most representations of women.

YYD wrote:

It doesn't mean you should pay one gender less, or you don't give them equal rights though.

Right, well, that's what's happening. White women still make 78 cents to every white man's dollar, and the stats are even lower for Black and Latina women. It has nothing to do with noticing the other gender or sexual attraction, and I'm not really sure why you're connecting the two concepts. The wage gap has more to do with a persistent, often unconscious, pervasive belief that women deserve less than men, simply because they are women.

Also, on the whole "feminists aren't funny" thing...if you devoted your life to studying these trends and widespread systems of discrimination; if you devoted most or all of your time to trying to understand why this happens, why there are entire INSTITUTIONS designed to keep you "in your place" just because you happen to belong to one gender and not the other, you'd be pretty pissed too.
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 7988, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Sun Apr 15, 2012 05:42 PM
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2012-04-15 17:50:04
To believe that fashion choices are a fair or accurate indication of political or moral positions is at best, shallow.


Exactly, that is why I said I am only arguing about the original link, regarding the Cosmo article. Cosmo is a SHALLOW magazine which is why I gave a shallow answer about this woman whining about half naked men. She may have meant to be deeper about her thought process, but it wasn't coming out as anything more then an attempt at whining about the sexualization of hot women in a beauty magazine.
She doesn't like the weight loss aspect of the magazine nor the advertisements in a BEAUTY MAGAZINE? The new pink eyeshadow, hunky men, weight loss tips encompass the whole "outer beauty" thing.
She would have had a point if Readers Digest or Forbes or even National Geographic had the same content as Cosmo.
It is like looking at porn and complaining that the women have implants.
I just couldn't take the original article seriously.

If she talked about the physical abuse of women or how some women aren't allowed to get an education, I don't think anyone would have argued against the "F word" or the article in general. The pictures on this thread are beyond moving and they revoke a huge emotional response from me. As I said, none of what I said about fashion applies to anything besides the cosmo article.

But the objectification of women (and, increasingly, men) the way it's done in popular media today? That is NOT natural, and that is NOT acceptable.


Cien, I promise this isn't meant to be snarky. I am wondering what exactly are you talking about? Can you give examples of this? Are you referring to women in porn being used JUST as a sex object? I mean there are stereotypes of blonde hot women being super stupid on T.V, so is this more about what you are talking about?

I just want to make sure I have a more clear understanding of what you are talking about.
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 7988, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Sun Apr 15, 2012 05:57 PM
I wanted to add one more totally unrelated thing and didn't want to get anyone confused with ANOTHER edit.

One thing has been bugging me so much reading this post, and it is this quote
Some women prefer to be stay-at-home moms and wives, and that's fine--to me, those are full-time jobs that deserve compensation just as women who work full-time in offices receive.


Why should we give compensation to a women who stays home when they aren't contributing to anything? Yes, they are contributing to the household/family, but it is the responsibility of the person benefitting from her actions and they don't deserve any type of compensation from "normal" people. That is like if I paid the workers at Starbucks compensation for working, when I am the CEO of Walmart.

I am not sure if this is what you were trying to get across, and I may have misread it.
A woman has a right to choose her actions, but she DOESN'T have a right to demand that society caters financially to her need. That is the responsibility of the family to "pay" her for staying home, nor society.
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By Odessamember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 11218, member since Tue Feb 26, 2002
On Sun Apr 15, 2012 06:17 PM
YumYumDoughnut wrote:



But the objectification of women (and, increasingly, men) the way it's done in popular media today? That is NOT natural, and that is NOT acceptable.


Cien, I promise this isn't meant to be snarky. I am wondering what exactly are you talking about? Can you give examples of this? Are you referring to women in porn being used JUST as a sex object? I mean there are stereotypes of blonde hot women being super stupid on T.V, so is this more about what you are talking about?

I just want to make sure I have a more clear understanding of what you are talking about.


This is what she's talking about.

Erin.
::righteous babe::
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