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re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By ChristinePremium member Comments: 6118, member since Wed Feb 04, 2009
On Tue Apr 17, 2012 09:54 PM
Edited by Christine (207347) on 2012-04-17 22:02:09 ps added
^You poor thing.

Think seriously about taking some of the classes I suggested this summer or in the fall. Understanding the truth about your own mindset may be life changing. At the very least, it can't hurt.
Image hotlink - 'http://www.melanievannuys.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/mindset.png'

Best...

Keep On Dancing*

ps I'm all in favor of anything that "may contribute to acceptance of homosexuality as a legitimate lifestyle." Just sayin'
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 7988, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:01 PM
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2012-04-17 22:03:50
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2012-04-17 22:08:57
I have been out of the church completely for the last 3 years, and I left my immediate family environment about a year ago. I never really agreed with what they were preaching so I was also the black sheep in that whole culture.
I also started to go to a public college around the age of 15 part time, so I was exposed to more of the "real world" at 15. So it wasn't like I was trapped in the middle of nowhere.
I was a little too bigoted to relate to liberal college kids, but way too liberal to relate to anyone of my high school.
I always thought there was something wrong with the man being the head, and that women were created FOR men.
They didn't teach this in my regular classes, but this was a huge focus in my religious studies.

I've always been slapped down for my beliefs in my religious setting but at the same time, I feel like I am being slapped down for being ignorant views in the "real world".

Being in this inbetween phase is a bit weird, I admit. I don't want to play the victim or anything and I also take full responsibilty for my actions. But since you asked about more clarification on my background, I gave it to you.

PS. Christine, I sent you a PM. Sometimes my PM box doesn't light up yellow, so just wanted to give you a heads up.
re: The F word... (karma: 3)  en>fr fr>en
By slice Comments: 1152, member since Fri Oct 15, 2004
On Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:09 PM
YYD, I don't know how many courses you have left, but you need some theory, BADLY. Feminist theory, critical race theory, queer theory... all that jazz. Even if there was one course that had a smorgasbord of the aforementioned theories, that would be better than nothing. Please do not take this as an insult, but your perspective on gender and race (from another thread) are very ignorant. Consider yourself blessed that you have been able to make it this far without worrying about these matters.

This isn't a matter of being liberal or conservative. This is a matter of knowing the various power structures at play in this country, and covering your eyes and going "Lalalalalala".
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 7988, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:23 PM
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2012-04-17 22:26:33
Consider yourself blessed that you have been able to make it this far without worrying about these matters.


That is because I know how to be extremely diplomatic when needed. ( Not at all on DDN) I'm a Senior in University already, so it probably would have to wait until Law school. Plus, I have already taken some of the courses listed and I just didn't flat out agree with what they were teaching. At least you guys actually have some facts behind you and you aren't making it into a personal venting session. I came out of the class where I learned about Feminism, hating feminism even more. I just think I was taught poorly. She was quite the man hater.

I learned more about Feminism on this thread, then a quarter of an official class in College. I, of course, got an A in the class, because I just parroted back what she wanted to hear.

I went into community college thinking that feminism was a bad idea on religious grounds. I left my community college despising feminism as a human ideal, not just a religious one. Then going to University at one of the most liberal cities in the nation...my viewpoints are slowly shifting back to the "neutral+positive" feelings about feminism.
re: The F word... (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By ChristinePremium member Comments: 6118, member since Wed Feb 04, 2009
On Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:47 PM
I left my community college despising feminism as a human ideal, not just a religious one.


I, of course, got an A in the class, because I just parroted back what she wanted to hear.


Your A is meaningless.

If you didn't understand the actual knowledge being shared or the coursework being presented and somehow managed to regurgitate enough course content to dupe the teacher, you are essentially and intellectual bulimic. You managed to sit at the feast, partake in the bounty, and absorb nothing. Your posts don't indicate a firm grasp on any of these theories and although you don't seem to understand this, you need to. I hope you didn't sell your text books. Your time would be well spent re-reading them with an open mind.

Keep On Dancing*
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 7988, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:03 PM
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2012-04-17 23:07:56
Edited by YumYumDoughnut (99333) on 2012-04-17 23:10:33
^ That is why I asked for good books to start. Personal recommendations from respected DDN members.

I didn't actually read the textbook for the class either. On the tests, I just put down what I thought a "typical feminist" would say to the things she was asking.Well more like, what I thought a typical feminist, the way the professor explained it, would say. I wouldn't know what a "typical feminist" is.

Apparently the answers were what she wanted to hear, and I got one of the highest grade in the class. I can write convincing answers based on what catch keywords I hear. If I hear a lot of words like "privilege", "corporations" "male CEO's" "elitist" "wallstreet" "equal wages"... I understand where her personal standing point is.

The professor was convinced that I was going to be involved in rallying for female rights. That's why my major is hard, I can't BS numbers ;) This is probably also why they shouldn't assign letter grades in college. If I didn't feel like I was going to lower my GPA, I would have absolutely debated with my teacher, in order to gain experience and insight to what she thought. I've had teacher lower my grades for arguing before, so I wasn't going to take that chance!

I wouldn't humor DDN like that because it would be insulting to just tell you what you want to hear. I actually care about you as individuals and I want to have meaningful conversations with you guys, not just "how to get an A".

This teacher did NOT explain feminism AT ALL like the way you guys explained it on DDN. If she was anywhere as good as some of you, I would have actually read the textbook and did personal homework outside of class! Why are professional teachers sometimes the worst people to be teaching?
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By YumYumDoughnutPremium member Comments: 7988, member since Sat Jul 10, 2004
On Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:20 PM
Just wanting Odessa to know that I am totally loving the feministe website right now.

I just read this article about how they might send women to jail for using the Morning After Pill in Honduras. With NO EXCEPTIONS for victims of sexual assault!

www.feministe.us . . .
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By Nyssasisticmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 3460, member since Sat Sep 20, 2003
On Wed Apr 18, 2012 02:06 AM
YumYumDoughnut wrote:

I am talking about when I am modeling or going out for an event. Not a run to a grocery store but more like girls night out.

For the modeling aspect, yes it is to manipulate men into spending more money in the item or event. The simplest example would be like hiring hot go go dancers at a bar. The men will stay longer to watch the go go dancers, which means he will probably buy more alcohol. Having a super hot Ring Girl during a Fighting Match makes ticket sales go up. Having hot NFL cheerleaders is good advertisement ETC

For me when I use the word "equal", I mean same voting rights, education, wages etc. If I dress seductively on a Saturday night I am not taking away any of his core equal rights, such as equal wages. Therefore he is not at a disadvantage.
If I dressed sexy at work in order to get a promotion, THAT would be unequal footing in my opinion.

I don't think I dress sexy and objectified in order to "manipulate" a man in a negative way. It isn't a power struggle between a man and myself. The men I tend to date like the whole package. Looking sexy when going on a date night is one way of keeping their attention.


I said
Now, I'm not necessarily talking about dressing up in a sexy/cute outfit and hitting the town, or even dressing well for work. I'm talking about dressing and acting in a way to purposely manipulate a man/men.


So yes, I'm only addressing the times that someone would dress like that specifically to manipulate a guy. I never said it's a horrible thing to dress up sexy to have fun or anything.
re: The F word... (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By smileywomanmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 10998, member since Sat Sep 17, 2005
On Wed Apr 18, 2012 02:52 PM
Edited by smileywoman (141214) on 2012-04-18 15:07:03 ..
Edited by smileywoman (141214) on 2012-04-18 15:16:19 ...
Ultimately, I assume the OP’s original reference to the “F WORD” (as in the blog and the original Cosmopolitan magazine article) is feminism or feminists

AND

looking at the basic definition: “A feminist is a person whose beliefs and behaviors are based on feminism, which is aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women as well as establishing equal opportunities for women in education and employment.”

Then, yes I am.

I believe in equal rights on all levels for all genders. There should be a level playing field for everyone which should include equal pay for equal work. Gender inequality is still pervasive throughout the world for women, both as a basic belief system and perpetuated in the media and advertising).*

*discrimination, objectification, oppression, stereotyping to name just a few.

Moreover, I echo what PAZ said
“feminism means treating all people equally. I think it's become more than just "women aren't treated equally to men." Trans women, women with disabilities, queer people, bisexual women, and women of color have been historically and systematically ignored and pushed aside by white feminism in many, many instances. So not only do we have work to do with respect to gaining equality with men, but we have to be conscious of the presence and contributions of all kinds of women. For me, feminism is about working to make sure all women are treated equally to each other as well as to men. This means acknowledging and combating racism, classism, ableism, transphobia, and fat-shaming wherever they happen.”


I also want to respond to the OP friend’s blog response to the Cosmo article

I, like millions of other women, enjoy looking good. My red lipstick and matching red velvet stilettos are like my children. But, I do it for me (here, is where I stop typing and consider if actually I have been trained to say that by a male owned consumerist system) but on the whole, I think, I do it for me.


I’ve had discussions males and females alike on womens’ outward appearance (clothes, shoes, makeup etc.) and most guys will tell you that they don’t CARE about the trappings. What they find attractive is the basic physical appearance, not the trappings. In fact, women I’ve talked to acknowledge that the shoe thing? They wear them for themselves or for other women…NOT for guys.

There is nothing wrong with looking good, there is nothing wrong with your choice in clothing, there is nothing wrong with wanting to lose a bit of weight. BUT it is the intention and mindset behind why you are doing it that matters.


Agreed. Echo what I said above. For many, confident women they will tell you that they actually don the trappings and do things to make themselves look and feel good for THEMSELVES and not for anyone else. Granted the reason for the outward trappings can vary by individual and at different phases of their lives. (I cared what a guy thought of me when I was younger, but now I do it solely for myself).

What Cosmo and many women’s magazines get wrong is that they pitch it to you in a way that make you believe that your appearance is the single, most important thing in the world, far more superior to your intellect or skills and that you should prioritise it, because everyone else expects you to – especially your boyfriend/partner/potential heterosexual lover. This is just unhelpful in the fight for equality. It reinstate everything that is keeping us from being around that boardroom table or all that is allowing us to be treated as objects.


I believe that is for advertising and media to SELL, but some men (and women) unfortunately DO believe this.

Ultimately, total equality and I practice what I preach.
re: The F word... (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By oz_helenmember has saluted, click to view salute photosPremium member Comments: 11196, member since Sat Aug 10, 2002
On Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:54 PM
YumYumDoughnut wrote:

Society's hottest women benefit from the current system.

Thoughts about this?


They might earn more than less attractive women, but they still earn less than men and they still don't get taken seriously because of how they look.

Helen
re: The F word... en>fr fr>en
By ChristinePremium member Comments: 6118, member since Wed Feb 04, 2009
On Thu Apr 19, 2012 01:12 PM
^and any perks that come from looks alone will fade as quickly as good looks. This pits older women against younger women.

It is so sad to see this aspect of this discussion. I can not understand why young women turn on thinking women as quickly as they do. And this is not new. Back in the day, Gloria Steinem was considered more popular than Betty Friedan, not because her feminist theory or writing were better, but because she was younger and better looking.
Image hotlink - 'http://strikemepink6.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/friedan.jpg'
Image hotlink - 'http://cdn.dipity.com/uploads/events/ce9fc068cca3a1c4c9aaac115e4bb06f_1M.png'

I continue to urge everyone here who just doesn't get it to continue to educate themselves. The truth will set you free.

Image hotlink - 'http://philosophicalswag.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/402pxgloria_steinem_at_news_conference_womens_action_alliance_january_12_1972-2.jpg'

and then you will understand the frustration, and "bitterness", although I don't think that is the proper world. Righteous Indignation is more accurate.

Keep On Dancing*
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